Is God sending people straight to hell when they die, today?

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face2face

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Hey Face, i reported you then retracted as you pointed out the lake of fire is there.

Let me tell you, i take the revelation in different ways.

I will say that birds do gorgue and eat flesh, just look at the vultures. The sword coming out the mouth of the ride would be symbolic for Jesus (in my opinion) those whom professed Christ as King, and you also have to consider that this beast had to perform signs (i take that as nero), and the kings that wages war on the rider and his army was the killing of Christians amongst that nature. You see that the two where thrown in the lake of buring sulfur (the false prophet and the beast), and you have the devil in the next chapter. Perhaps also the words that came from Jesus was the promised plagues dumped out upon the nation of Israel; and the armies surround the city which had 1,000,000 death total.

But look what do you see all that to mean?
Okay, so you can identify things as being figurative (red text) and not literal...that's a start.

Chapter 19 is where John is given a vision of the final work of conquest. This will take place after the judgment of the "great whore," and prior to the 'supper of the great God.'' Babylon the Great is destroyed, the beast and the false prophet remain to resist Christ.

When do you think chapter 19 occurs?

F2F
 

MatthewG

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MatthewG

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Is that it Matt?
Yes. Currently working on a video to be edited for tiktok, reading through 1 Samuel, using capcut to edit in text for the video right now and gonna go on to work on verses Chapter 1:24- on ward to however long I can get to in 9-10 minutes.

Listen, I love you and love all the people here on this website. I use to try to badger and poke and prod other people, when they wouldn't believe me that Jesus Christ has come back, therefore a lot of that has stopped, because while I may believe that everyone does not. I will openly express my beliefs to the fullest in faith in which is believed to any stranger, or person I know, if they ask me.

Just the other day, a person asked me do you believe that Jesus is coming back; and I told that woman, if you read the bible you can see that Jesus was going to come back to get a people group that is no longer around, and I told her no. I do not believe Jesus is coming back to destroy everything in where we live at today. I am not ashamed of my belief and Jesus Christ and his victory over all things, and I am not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God to salvation.

I just do not desire to - argue with other people who have differences. If you have differences that is fine: we have to still love each other - cause while there are unbelievers out there, those who are believers, all are one in Christ, and God is not a respector of persons.

He doesn't hold me higher or love me more, because of my beliefs. That is why I believe in subjective Christianity - while objectively Ill teach and share what I believe is true personally to me - those who differ have their own measure of faith between them and God... therefore to allow them to be is okay... in my opinion if they disagree with me, thats all fine and good.

I never see where 2nd death is claimed to be permanent death, ... some people claim to see it through the scriptures as where I tend to see Gods will being met and having none to perish, that is why I asked the other person what do you think about those who have a part in the Lake of Fire...

In the end what you believe about these things is between you and God, and to fight other people over "beliefs and what they have faith in" is ignorant. You can discuss, but in the end, they must decide for themselves.

To go around and around and around is wasted time, effort, energy.
 
J

Johann

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Reported for harassment.
This is a immature response-instead of defending for what you believe to be true-which might not-you "report" members.

What does the Bible say?

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Iron sharpens iron-in Scriptures-if you didn't know that- we are to dokimazo each other-but you are not ready for admonishing.

J.
 

MatthewG

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This is a immature response-instead of defending for what you believe to be true-which might not-you "report" members.

What does the Bible say?

1Pe 3:15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:

Iron sharpens iron-in Scriptures-if you didn't know that- we are to dokimazo each other-but you are not ready for admonishing.

J.
I dont need you to come proding me. Please stop.
 

MatthewG

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People send themselves to Hell-not God.
J.
This a common response now it seems. God created sheol? The place existed because sin was not yet paid for. All people went there when they died. There was a separation from faithful and faithless with separation from God until jesus came. Jesus went there for three days and three nights. Jesus was risen again from Gods spirit and then he acends to heaven on the right hand of God. Sheol is eventually emptied out with souls wothin judged. Some going to the lake of fire to take part there; revelation also talks about those outside the city gates and those who may enter into the city. One all enemies are defeated there is no more hell people go to. They go to the heavenly realm outside or inside the kingdom, amd God has will which none shall perish. The lake of fire seems to come from God who is a consuming fire if its in front of the angels and the lamb.

“For our God is a consuming fire.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12‬:‭29‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
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Johann

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This a common response now it seems. God created sheol? The place existed because sin was not yet paid for. All people went there when they died. There was a separation from faithful and faithless with separation from God until jesus came. Jesus went there for three days and three nights. Jesus was risen again from Gods spirit and then he acends to heaven on the right hand of God. Sheol is eventually emptied out with souls wothin judged. Some going to the lake of fire to take part there; revelation also talks about those outside the city gates and those who may enter into the city. One all enemies are defeated there is no more hell people go to. They go to the heavenly realm outside or inside the kingdom, amd God has will which none shall perish. The lake of fire seems to come from God who is a consuming fire if its in front of the angels and the lamb.

“For our God is a consuming fire.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭12‬:‭29‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
You a universalist?
 

MatthewG

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You a universalist?
 
J

Johann

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: APOSTASY (APHISTĒMI)

The Greek term aphistēmi has a wide semantic field. However, the English term "apostasy" is derived from this term and prejudices its usage to modern readers. Context, as always, is the key, not a preset definition.

This is a compound term from the preposition apo, which means "from" or "away from" and histēmi, "to sit," "to stand," or "to fix." Notice the following (non-theological) usages:

1. to remove physically

a. from the Temple, Luke 2:37

b. from a house, Mark 13:34

c. from a person, Mark 12:12; 14:50; Acts 5:38

d. from all things, Matt. 19:27,29

2. to remove politically, Acts 5:37

3. to remove relationally, Acts 5:38; 15:38; 19:9; 22:29

4. to remove legally (divorce), Deut. 24:1,3 (LXX ) and NT, Matt. 5:31; 19:7; Mark 10:4; 1 Cor. 7:11

5. to remove a debt, Matt. 18:24

6. to show unconcern by leaving, Matt. 4:20; John 4:28; 16:32

7. to show concern by not leaving, John 8:29; 14:18

8. to allow or permit, Matt. 13:30; 19:14; Mark 14:6; Luke 13:8



In a theological sense the verb also has a wide usage:

1. to cancel, pardon, remit the guilt of sin, Exod.32:32 (LXX); Num. 14:19; Job 42:10 and NT, Matt. 6:12,14-15; Mark 11:25-26

2. to refrain from sin, 2 Tim. 2:19

3. to neglect by moving away from

a. the Law, Matt. 23:23; Acts 21:21

b. the faith, Ezek. 20:8 (LXX ); Luke 8:13; 2 Thess. 2:3; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:12

Modern believers ask many theological questions that the NT writers would have never thought about. One of these would relate to the modern tendency to separate faith (justification) from faithfulness (sanctification).

There are persons in the Bible who are involved in the people of God and something happens to cause them to leave.

I. Old Testament

A. Those who heard the twelve (ten) spies' report, Numbers 14 (cf. Heb. 3:16-19)

B. Korah, Numbers 16

C. Eli's sons, 1 Samuel 2, 4

D. Saul, 1 Samuel 11-31

E. False prophets (examples)

1. Deut. 13:1-5 18:19-22 (ways to know a false prophet)

2. Jeremiah 28

3. Ezekiel 13:1-7

F. False prophetesses

1. Ezekiel 13:17

2. Nehemiah 6:14

G. Evil leaders of Israel (examples)

1. Jeremiah 5:30-31; 8:1-2; 23:1-4

2. Ezekiel 22:23-31

3. Micah 3:5-12



II. New Testament

A. This Greek term is literally "to apostasize." The Old and New Testaments both confirm an intensification of evil and false teaching before the Second Coming (cf. Matt. 24:24; Mark 13:22;

Acts 20:29,30; 2 Thess. 2:9-12; 2 Tim. 4:4). This Greek term may reflect Jesus' words in the Parable of the Soils found in Matthew 13; Mark 4; and Luke 8. These false teachers are obviously not Christians, but they came from within (cf. Acts 20:29-30; I John 2:19); however, they are able to seduce and capture immature believers (cf. Heb. 3:12).

The theological question is were the false teachers ever believers? This is difficult to answer because there were false teachers in the local churches (cf. 1 John 2:18-19). Often our theological or denominational traditions answer this question without reference to specific Bible texts (except the proof-text method of quoting a verse out of context to supposedly prove one's bias).

B. Apparent faith

1. Judas, John 17:12

2. Simon Magnus, Acts 8

3. Those spoken of in Matt. 7:13-23

4. Those spoken of in Matthew 13; Mark 4; Luke 8

5. The Jews of John 8:31-59

6. Alexander and Hymenaeus, 1 Tim. 1:19-20

7. Those of 1 Tim. 6:21

8. Hymenaeus and Philetus, 2 Tim. 2:16-18

9. Demas, 2 Tim. 4:10

10. False teachers, 2 Peter 2:19-22; Jude 1:12-19

11. antichrists, 1 John 2:18-19

C. Fruitless faith

1. 1 Corinthians 3:10-15

1. 2 Peter 1:8-11

We rarely think about these texts because our systematic theology (Calvinism, Arminianism, etc.) dictates the mandated response. Please do not pre-judge me because I bring up this subject. My concern is proper hermeneutical procedure. We must let the Bible speak to us and not try to mold it into a preset theology. This is often painful and shocking because much of our theology is denominational, cultural, or relational (parent, friend, pastor), not biblical (see Special Topic: What Does It Mean to "receive," "believe," "confess/profess," "call upon"?).

Some who are in the People of God turn out to not be in the People of God (e.g., Rom. 9:6).<<<Link.
 

MatthewG

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@Johann,

Will you please be more straight forward with me on what you are sharing about, in response to the link that I shared with you?

I believe in Universal Salvation, but I do not believe in Universalism itself. Are you calling me an apostate? If I was an apostate I would denounce Jesus Christ, as the victor of all things. I would denounce Jesus and his death, burial, and resurrection.

Thank you for sharing information via, some website that you have found and it has helped you.
 
J

Johann

Guest
@Johann,

Will you please be more straight forward with me on what you are sharing about, in response to the link that I shared with you?

I believe in Universal Salvation, but I do not believe in Universalism itself. Are you calling me an apostate? If I was an apostate I would denounce Jesus Christ, as the victor of all things. I would denounce Jesus and his death, burial, and resurrection.

Thank you for sharing information via, some website that you have found and it has helped you.
Show me Scripture references that Pas/Ta Panta- will be saved-in the end-and I don't appreciate that aggressive tone since I have NOT called you an apostate.
 

MatthewG

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@Johann, was just asking for you to be straightforward with me. Thank you for telling me that you were not calling me an apostate, I did not know how to take your post, it was just shared, and therefore was just curious. All I know about God's will is that he is not willingly that any should perish, but if that is true or not is up for people to decide for themselves.
 
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Johann

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@Johann, was just asking for you to be straightforward with me. Thank you for telling me that you were not calling me an apostate, I did not know how to take your post, it was just shared, and therefore was just curious. All I know about God's will is that is not willingly that any should perish, but if that is true or not is up for people to decide for themselves.
I asked you to show me Scripture references where ALL will be saved-in the end.

Two or three would suffice.
 

MatthewG

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@Johann,

My suggestion is read Revelation 21, and 22.

There are people though they received reward, (the spirit body that is given by God), all are raised from the Dead, and there is a separation from those who were faithless and faithful.

What do you mean by saved when you say that?

All people are saved "from" (death (spiritual death), satan, the false prophet, the beast, hades, and sin (cause it was paid for.) (Jesus victory that many people do not have faith in it covering all of those things.)

Not everyone is saved "to" the Kingdom of God.

I am not gonna answer you with scripture, and here is why. I don't feel like looking them all up.
 
J

Johann

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@Johann,

My suggestion is read Revelation 21, and 22.

There are people though they received reward, (the spirit body that is given by God), all are raised from the Dead, and there is a separation from those who were faithless and faithful.

What do you mean by saved when you say that?

All people are saved "from" (death (spiritual death), satan, the false prophet, the beast, hades, and sin (cause it was paid for.) (Jesus victory that many people do not have faith in it covering all of those things.)

Not everyone is saved "to" the Kingdom of God.

I am not gonna answer you with scripture, and here is why. I don't feel like looking them all up.
You are not going to answer me with Scriptures because you don't FEEL like looking them up?
Please don't respond.
Thanks
J.
 

MatthewG

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People who are seeking and searching for truth on matters, may you be encouraged to read the bible.

Everyone can consider what people say, but what you decide for yourself to be true will between you and God alone.

It is very helpful and useful to study.

Some study tools I use personally,


I highly recommend anyone to read and study the bible if they so are desirous of truth. Of course, not everyone is willingly to do those things, as a friend said "it's a daunting task."

There are seven books I own for help in study.

Holman Study Bible: NKJV Edition, Jacketed Hardcover 9781433605093 | eBay (HOLMAN study bible)

Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words and Greek dictionary)

NKJV Thompson Chain-Reference Bible, hardcover a great overview of the bible in a form of topics over 8,000)

Josephus: The Complete Works (Always use to be near where bibles were sold a inter-testimonial from someone who lived in the times of the apostles)

The Great Fire of Rome: The Fall of the Emperor Nero and His City 306818906 | eBay (A book picked up about Nero)

(Just a general summary off foot notes of and on Revelation, there is a bigger collection found (Revelations on Revelation | Commentary Collection, Volumes 1-22 — Shawn McCraney)

There is also a myriad of other websites to use as well.


There is also websites such as


https://sites.google.com/site/inglisonmarcion/Home
Evangelical Textual Criticism
Bible Questions Answered | GotQuestions.org Confessional Bibliology
The mystery of 666 Explained - Nero! {Ecumenical thread}

PreteristCentral

Preterism is the belief that all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled.
preteristcentral.com
http://www.preteristarchive.com/
www.tektonics.org
www.earlychristianwritings.com
www.abarrim-publications.com
www.biblestudytools.com
www.ccel.org
www.fullpreterist.com
www.Rebecca-writes.com
www.bible.org
www.revelationrevolution.org
www.religionfacts.com
www.myjewishlearning.com
www.adammaarschalk.com
www.slaveoftheword.blogspot.com
www.jewishencyclopedia.com
www.discoverrevelation.com
www.zeolla.org
www.danielbwallace.com
www.franknelte.net
www.bible-researcher.com
www.bibletexts.com
www.biblecannon.org
www.jerusalemchannel.org
www.studylight.org
www.gotquestions.org
www.rethinkhell.com
 

Keiw

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Thank you for sharing what you believe, for me I believe Jesus had victory over the second death. Not so sure that Gods will is to have any to perish when it comes to human beings, my encouragement is for people to while they need to view all of the Revelation, they also need to take in Revelation 21, and 22, @Keiw. All the best.
I do see 21-22-20:9 assures all wicked who follow satan after he is loosed get destroyed.
 

Keiw

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@MatthewG @Keiw

Rev 19:21 The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

Do you believe its a literal sword coming out of the mouth of the rider?
Is it a literal horse?
Are the birds actually eating flesh?

F2F
This is Armageddon--The sword is the judgement from Jesus to destroy the wicked.
The white horse= righteous war.
Yes the birds will be eating flesh. 99% minimum on earth will perish at Armageddon.