In Reference To CyBs Statement of Faith - Christian Forum

[BjornFree]

Your response demonstrates you can't discern the difference between the fantasy of the Gospel of Peter and the sinful reality that is expressed in Genesis 19.

Good heavens, would you 'die' if you were not able to have the final 'winning word' in a verbal conflict.
You're right in respect of all that you say of me ..... there now, does that save you from 'dieing'?

 

[OzSpen]

I would like to add something to the current discussion but we are straying far from the OP.

lforrest,

I am finding the OP to be very broad in scope - Statement of Faith. In a few recent posts, I have commented on the content of the canon of Scripture. Does the CyB SoF include a statement on the 66 books of OT and NT being the accepted canon for CyB?

Or, are you prepared to accept the books of the Apocrypha (Deuterocanonical) as Scripture?

Do you want the Pseudepigrapha to be included in Scripture in your SoF?

What about the alleged 'lost books of the Bible'?

Are all these extras open for discussion in the CyB Statement of Faith?

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Good heavens, would you 'die' if you were not able to have the final 'winning word' in a verbal conflict.
You're right in respect of all that you say of me ..... there now, does that save you from 'dieing'?

Oneoff,

Can't you engage in constructive dialogue with me without making the false accusation against me of a 'final "winning word"'?

I'm not planning on 'dieing' but I will be 'dying' one day.

I am not saying anything of you personally. However, you are promoting some strange doctrines on this forum and I will investigate - even challenge - you on these points. Why? Because the Scriptures have asked me to do so in 1 John 4:1-3 (NLT):

Dear friends, do not believe everyone who claims to speak by the Spirit. You must test them to see if the spirit they have comes from God. For there are many false prophets in the world. 2 This is how we know if they have the Spirit of God: If a person claiming to be a prophet acknowledges that Jesus Christ came in a real body, that person has the Spirit of God. 3 But if someone claims to be a prophet and does not acknowledge the truth about Jesus, that person is not from God. Such a person has the spirit of the Antichrist, which you heard is coming into the world and indeed is already here.

You have provided too much teaching to demonstrate that I need to 'test' your teaching as it compares with the Scriptures. So far, I've found a number of points of contention. This is my biblical responsibility before God: 'Test everything; hold fast what is good' (1 Thess 5:21 ESV). 'For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear' (2 Tim 4:3 NLT).

That's why I will not let you get away with teaching falsehood on this forum. The Scripture requires that I be vigilant in warning people of false teaching when I see it happening.

The Internet is a great place to propagate such false teaching.

I have nothing against you, Oneoff, but sound doctrine is what the Bible calls me to be as a Bible teacher. This requires refutation of false doctrine.

I have not the slightest interest in 'winning' a discussion. I DO HAVE a profound interest in keeping the faith and warning people about others who are promoting false doctrine - like you do.

Oz

 

[mjrhealth]

For a time is coming when people will no longer listen to sound and wholesome teaching. They will follow their own desires and will look for teachers who will tell them whatever their itching ears want to hear'

And Jesus said,

Joh 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Joh 10:2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
Joh 10:3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
Joh 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
Joh 10:5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

There are some who claim to be His yet do not know His voice, those who are His can only follow after Him again as He says,

Luk_9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

So while some insist that "christians " follow afte rmen tghose in christ can only insist tha men follow after"Him" again as He said.

Joh 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
Joh 5:40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

So many following after men at there insistence so few following after Chirst and laying down there lives.

 

[OzSpen]

For members such as myself, who do not accept the infallibility of any post apostolic, man made, Creeds/Statements of Faith, the refutation of such conviction puts our posts very much 'on topic'.

So which Creeds are considered infallible by some?

From the evidence you have presented on this forum, you don't accept the infallibility of Scripture in the original documents either.

 

[mjrhealth]

infallibility of Scripture

Yes over 40 diffenernt denomination all based on teh bible teaching a different Jesus becuase the bible cant be wrong. Its a conumdrum isnt it.??

 

[BjornFree]

Oneoff,
Sound doctrine is what the Bible calls me to be as a Bible teacher. This requires refutation of false doctrine.

I too have a divine commission, and mine is to deflate insular bigots who think that they have access to truth that is so reliable that what they believe can be used as an infallible yardstick giving them the authority to pronounce everyone who believes differently as being promoters of false doctrine.
I've cross swords with you over many forums and many years and never once have you admitted that you could be less than absolutely correct in respect of any aspect of Christian doctrine.

 

[OzSpen]

I too have a divine commission, and mine is to deflate insular bigots who think that they have access to truth that is so reliable that what they believe can be used as an infallible yardstick giving them the authority to pronounce everyone who believes differently as being promoters of false doctrine.
I've cross swords with you over many forums and many years and never once have you admitted that you could be less than absolutely correct in respect of any aspect of Christian doctrine.

Oneoff,

Where is your divine commission to 'deflate insular bigots' found in Scripture? Please show me.

It is not true that you have crossed swords with me 'over many forums and many years'. I have met you once on a small UK forum and I was only there for a short period of time. Please inform me in a PM of these 'many forums'. Could this be hyperbole by you?

The issue is still your false doctrine, which you don't want to admit. Here it is false doctrine regarding the canon of Scripture and its content.

Oz

 

[StanJ]

For members such as myself, who do not accept the infallibility of any post apostolic, man made, Creeds/Statements of Faith, the refutation of such conviction puts our posts very much 'on topic'.

I agree, except the intent of this OP was not to debate the statement of faith for CB. In any event not up to me to control and if the OP or Admin allow it to continue, I really have no say in the matter do I?

 

[lforrest]

lforrest,

I am finding the OP to be very broad in scope - Statement of Faith. In a few recent posts, I have commented on the content of the canon of Scripture. Does the CyB SoF include a statement on the 66 books of OT and NT being the accepted canon for CyB?

Or, are you prepared to accept the books of the Apocrypha (Deuterocanonical) as Scripture?

Do you want the Pseudepigrapha to be included in Scripture in your SoF?

What about the alleged 'lost books of the Bible'?

Are all these extras open for discussion in the CyB Statement of Faith?

Oz

Those I believe would be related to the SOF, but the sound of God's voice is hardly SOF material.

 

[lforrest]

The imagination of men and devils is too vast to make a catch all statement of faith that precludes any false doctrine.

 

[OzSpen]

Those I believe would be related to the SOF, but the sound of God's voice is hardly SOF material.

I never said a word about the sound of God's voice. I was asking about the books in the canon of Scripture. Does the SoF only include the 66 books of the OT & NT or is it open to the books of the Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha, and the 'lost books of the Bible'? I gave the links to the list of such books in #217.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

The imagination of men and devils is too vast to make a catch all statement of faith that precludes any false doctrine.

I'm not suggesting 'a catch all statement'. However a statement like this could be acceptable for the SoF: 'We accept that the canon of Scripture consists of the 66 books of the OT and NT in the current Bible'.

 

[lforrest]

I never said a word about the sound of God's voice. I was asking about the books in the canon of Scripture. Does the SoF only include the 66 books of the OT & NT or is it open to the books of the Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha, and the 'lost books of the Bible'? I gave the links to the list of such books in #217.

Oz

There is a list in the SOF, I suppose if it isn't in the list it isn't included.

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, 1 Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Phillippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, I Peter, II Peter, I John, II John, III John, Jude and Revelation

 

[OzSpen]

There is a list in the SOF, I suppose if it isn't in the list it isn't included.

Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, I Samuel, II Samuel, 1 Kings, II Kings, I Chronicles, II Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Song of Songs, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Lamentations, Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonah, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, I Corinthians, II Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Phillippians, Colossians, I Thessalonians, II Thessalonians, I Timothy, II Timothy, Titus, Philemon, Hebrews, James, I Peter, II Peter, I John, II John, III John, Jude and Revelation

Thank you.

That confirms that CyB accepts only 39 OT books and 27 NT books to make up the 66 books of the Bible. The Apocrypha, Pseudepigrapha and alleged 'lost books of the Bible' are not included.

I thank God that you are maintaining an orthodox view on the canon of Scripture.

Oz

 

[BjornFree]

Oneoff,

Where is your divine commission to 'deflate insular bigots' found in Scripture? Please show me.

It is not true that you have crossed swords with me 'over many forums and many years'. I have met you once on a small UK forum and I was only there for a short period of time. Please inform me in a PM of these 'many forums'. Could this be hyperbole by you?

The issue is still your false doctrine, which you don't want to admit. Here it is false doctrine regarding the canon of Scripture and its content.

Oz

Oz, better by far if you had addressed my claim that never once have you ever admitted to being "less than absolutely correct in respect of any aspect of Christian doctrine".
I'm wasting my time in discussion with you and have made you the first entry on my ignore list.

 

[OzSpen]

Oz, better by far if you had addressed my claim that never once have you ever admitted to being "less than absolutely correct in respect of any aspect of Christian doctrine".
I'm wasting my time in discussion with you and have made you the first entry on my ignore list.

Have you read every post I have made on this and any other forum? 'Never once' admits to your reading all when I doubt it.

I have admitted to being 'less than absolutely correct' on many occasions in my Christian life. The problem, Mike, is that you don't know me personally. You only know me from a few posts on CyB and another forum where I challenged your unorthodox beliefs.

This I know: My personal statement of faith is not like yours.

Oz

 

[tom55]

Tom,
This is not the case regarding heretics.
1 John 4:1-3 (ESV) states: 'Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already'.
John told his audience to test the spirits to discern whether they were from God. That requirement has not changed. Otherwise, it makes the NT irrelevant for future generations if it only applied to what the apostles could do.
Oz

So we are in agreement. We don't need the Apostles to point out who the heretics are. That authority did not die with them. So who OR what organization has the authority to call someone heretical?

Who has the authority to tell me that someone (like Fred Phelps) or some organization (like the Mormons) is so heretical that I should treat them as a Gentile or a tax collector?

WHO are the false prophets teaching heresies? (2 Peter 2:1)
WHO is teaching the way of righteousness? (2 Peter 2:21)
What church do I go to if I feel a fellow Christian has sinned against me? (Mathew 18:17)

Who or what organization, in your opinion, has the authority, ability, the right too etc. etc. "test the spirits to discern whether they were from God"?

 

[OzSpen]

So we are in agreement. We don't need the Apostles to point out who the heretics are. That authority did not die with them. So who OR what organization has the authority to call someone heretical?

Who has the authority to tell me that someone (like Fred Phelps) or some organization (like the Mormons) is so heretical that I should treat them as a Gentile or a tax collector?

WHO are the false prophets teaching heresies? (2 Peter 2:1)
WHO is teaching the way of righteousness? (2 Peter 2:21)
What church do I go to if I feel a fellow Christian has sinned against me? (Mathew 18:17)

Who or what organization, in your opinion, has the authority, ability, the right too etc. etc. "test the spirits to discern whether they were from God"?

It is not in the realm of 'in your opinion'. What do the Scriptures state? This is not difficult to determine and it seems that you are being difficult here.

Two of the verses you quoted are from 2 Peter. To whom was 2 Peter written? 'Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord' (2 Pet 1:1-2).

So this book was written to the people of God, 'a faith of equal standing with ours', and they generally met together in a house church of God's people in the first century. The way of righteousness is taught among God's people when they gathered.

As for a person who has sinned against you, you go to the church and 'tell it to the church' (Matt 18:17 ESV), but not before you have done the requirements prior to this verse. I would not be doing this without consultation with the leaders of that church.

Surely it is not all that difficult, but it takes biblical fidelity and a requirement to be true to Scripture.

Oz

 

[tom55]

It is not in the realm of 'in your opinion'. What do the Scriptures state? This is not difficult to determine and it seems that you are being difficult here.

Two of the verses you quoted are from 2 Peter. To whom was 2 Peter written? 'Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord' (2 Pet 1:1-2).

So this book was written to the people of God, 'a faith of equal standing with ours', and they generally met together in a house church of God's people in the first century. The way of righteousness is taught among God's people when they gathered.

As for a person who has sinned against you, you go to the church and 'tell it to the church' (Matt 18:17 ESV), but not before you have done the requirements prior to this verse. I would not be doing this without consultation with the leaders of that church.

Surely it is not all that difficult, but it takes biblical fidelity and a requirement to be true to Scripture.

Oz

Who or what organization, in your opinion, has the authority, ability, the right too etc. etc. "test the spirits to discern whether they were from God"?