Idolatry and the like in Catholicism

[Riverwalker]

The church itself will be held accountable for what they do

The church is the sum total of people. This an individual problem. Yes Offenders should be punished. and if the church LEADERSHIP is hiding it they should be punished. The problem here is that some of the Church leaders think they are above flock, when we are all part of the same sheepfold

 

[DuckieLady]

You're mistaken here on your comment about the churches responsibility. It is the shepherds of the flock (actually under shepherds with God as the Great Shepherd) that are responsible for the flock. The flock is never responsible for the shepherd.

Where does it say that and who is the master, Christ or the church?

 

[amigo de christo]

Hello Fluffy,

I just gave you one.

Here is another:

I urge you, (brothers,) by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in the struggle by your prayers to God on my behalf

The communion of the saints is real! We pray for one another and are not ashamed to ask (pray) our brothers and sisters pray for us!

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

WHILE THEY ARE ALIVE . DONT HEED THE RCC . IT lies to many and is deadly .

 

[amigo de christo]

Philip, that verse was written while he was alive in the body because it was a letter.

Do you have a verse where it says to pray to those where the body has passed away?

He was asking for people to pray on his behalf because he needed prayer for his mission.

He wasn't asking anyone to pray to him when he is dead or when anyone else was dead.

Stand firm sister . Thats right . The RCC has done great damage unto the souls of many . And since we love all
we warn all .

 

[DuckieLady]

The church is the sum total of people. This an individual problem. Yes Offenders should be punished. and if the church LEADERSHIP is hiding it they should be punished. The problem here is that some of the Church leaders think they are above flock, when we are all part of the same sheepfold

As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
1 Timothy 5:20


The leaders are in a place of teaching authority- this is what I mean by they will be judged more harshly.


"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." James 3:1

 

[michaelvpardo]

I watch Catholic Mass when I can't get to my church and it is fine. I find the Catholic Mass very professionally conducted. I'm not a fan for back street religion like some red letter and evangelic, etc.

I've been to the Catholic church and their members are mostly good people which is a reflection of the fruit of that church. Catholic people are doing just fine so I doubt there is anything regarding the issues you speak of.

Demonic possession might be an issue as I see it with communicating with the dead, so you might have a point there. I only pray to The Father in the name of Jesus the Christ. I'm not a fan of praying to anyone but God. And I have been visited by Angels and they have proven to me that they are Angels of God.

Anyone that has a cross around their neck could be guilty of idolatry in my opinion. I don't wear or worship the cross as it is a sign of the traitor against Jesus and desiring him to be killed from the earth so we can have earthly leadership instead. While he had to die, it wasn't the crucifixion that ultimately caused his sacrifice. As he instructed us, he alone had power to lay down his life and take it up again (John 10:18). So why worship the cross that had no effect on his sacrifice but physical and emotional suffering and humiliation towards Jesus? Hmmm, that should stir up some responses :)

There are abuse allegations in any church as well as many churches hide abuse allegations. The bigger the church the more allegations that church will have. Boy scouts got their dose recently and it is not a demonic church either. The problem is that the predators infiltrate the organizations that they benefit from, which is church and child care, Boy and Girl scouts, etc.

The cross is not a sign of "the traitor", but of Christ's sacrifice on our behalf. The Catholics like crucifixes because they depict Christ's sufferings (and because He's symbolically crucified by them in every mass where there's a communion service) and some protestants like a plain cross because it reminds them of the blood shed for them, for the propitiation of sin, and of the fact that He didn't stay on the cross, but was buried, rose from the dead, and is very much alive. It's also a reminder that as Christians and disciples of Christ that we are to bear our own cross. You can't get to heaven without coming to Calgary first. The Christian way is death to self and life in the Spirit. Problem is that we're living sacrifices, not dead ones, and a living sacrifice always wants to get off the altar or climb down from the cross.

 

[amigo de christo]

Indeed,
Paul is praying to (asking) others to pray for him.

Peace be with you!

Not true . Paul is not praying to them . HE is just asking . IF asking alone means prayer
then if you ask a muslim to give you a drink , ARE YOU PRAYING TO HIM . SORRY phillip . YALL are dead wrong. THE RCC has destroyed
many souls . I love you my friend . I Do . But when i ask my mother to pass me the bread , ITS NOT the same as PRAYING .
I Dont KNEEL and PRAY TO MY MOTHER . Asking alone is not prayer . PRAYER does contain asking . BUT JUST ASKING is not the same as prayer .
the church found a false way around its abomination . DO not fall for it my friend .

 

[michaelvpardo]

Indeed,
Paul is praying to (asking) others to pray for him.

Peace be with you!

You too, brother.

 

[michaelvpardo]

Where does it say that and who is the master, Christ or the church?

In the bible and in multiple places. Your question is itself erroneous. Christ is the head of the church and not separate from the church. We who are in the Church are in Him and He in us. We are One by faith and in the resurrection we shall be like Him, perfected in His image.

 

[Riverwalker]

As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
1 Timothy 5:20


The leaders are in a place of teaching authority- this is what I mean by they will be judged more harshly.


"Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." James 3:1

I understand, both what you are saying and what it means to you, but you cannot burn down the whole church to fix a problem that is found in people

 

[DuckieLady]

In the bible and in multiple places. Your question is itself erroneous. Christ is the head of the church and not separate from the church. We who are in the Church are in Him and He in us. We are One by faith and in the resurrection we shall be like Him, perfected in His image.

You're right that Christ is the head of the church.

So why would he go against himself?

Do you see where it says "If you love me, you will keep my commandments"? Why would God support what violates his commands?

 

[DuckieLady]

I understand, both what you are saying and what it means to you, but you cannot burn down the whole church to fix a problem that is found in people

You're right, I would take the people out of the church with the truth first and then let the whole building collapse on itself while there is nothing left to hold it. Because it is an abomination against God.

 

[Riverwalker]

You're right, I would take the people out of the church with the truth first and then let the whole building collapse on itself while there is nothing left to hold it. Because it is an abomination against God.

Great Anger feels justified but who does it hurt? Certainly not the ones who deserves it, but rather the one holding it. This is why God tells us to forgive our enemies and give them over to God. There will be an accounting, but you cannot let it hurt you....any more than it already has.

 

[michaelvpardo]

You're right that Christ is the head of the church.

So why would he go against himself?

Do you see where it says "If you love me, you will keep my commandments"? Why would God support what violates his commands?

First of all, He said that to unredeemed Jews in a lesson and Jesus, like His contemporaries lived under the law of Moses. The covenant of law was to be kept by Israel under penalty of the curses pronounced at mount Ebal when Israel first crossed the Jordan. The new covenant however, is not kept by us but by God and is not dependent upon our obedience, but upon His grace poured out upon us by His Spirit. It's a superior covenant because it depends upon the faithfulness of a perfect God, not that of imperfect men.

 

[DuckieLady]

Great Anger feels justified but who does it hurt? Certainly not the ones who deserves it, but rather the one holding it. This is why God tells us to forgive our enemies and give them over to God. There will be an accounting, but you cannot let it hurt you....any more than it already has.

Who do you think is really hurt, honestly?

Listen, the Lord feels grief himself.

"My grief is beyond healing; my heart is broken.
Listen to the weeping of my people; it can be heard all across the land.
“Has the Lord abandoned Jerusalem? ” the people ask. “Is her King no longer there?”
“Oh, why have they provoked my anger with their carved idols and their worthless foreign gods?” says the Lord . “The harvest is finished, and the summer is gone,” the people cry, “yet we are not saved!”
I hurt with the hurt of my people. I mourn and am overcome with grief.
Is there no medicine in Gilead? Is there no physician there? Why is there no healing for the wounds of my people?"
Jeremiah 8:18‭-‬22


Perhaps, I would suggest, if God is sending healing for his people to bring them out from lies, that true love would be having compassion and understanding for the Lord's correction - and not stand in the way.

Your idea of love and compassion is not the same as a father's loving correction for his children.

 

[DuckieLady]

First of all, He said that to unredeemed Jews in a lesson and Jesus, like His contemporaries lived under the law of Moses. The covenant of law was to be kept by Israel under penalty of the curses pronounced at mount Ebal when Israel first crossed the Jordan. The new covenant however, is not kept by us but by God and is not dependent upon our obedience, but upon His grace poured out upon us by His Spirit. It's a superior covenant because it depends upon the faithfulness of a perfect God, not that of imperfect men.

God's grace does not rule out obedience.

"If you love me keep my commands."

"He must hold firmly to the trustworthy message as it has been taught, so that he can encourage others by sound doctrine and refute those who oppose it." Titus 1:9

I do not submit to man's authority, only God's, and if a church leader is operating against the knowledge of Christ, then he is no longer operating under Christ and his position is nothing by default.

 

[MatthewG]

Whatever you decide to do ~ Have Faith and Follow Christ Jesus and Trust God.

Love God, and Love Others ~ And no matter how many ups and downs never let go of the Lord Jesus Christ. Do not fall away from the living God into a hard heart of disbelief, with no faith.

Pray for all peoples. Have compassion on the peoples.

Wrong or right, pray and hope that God sees them through, that they too may partake in being a child of God, and partake in the inheritance of being joint-heirs with Christ through faith and belief. That the spirit of God is let in by their choice, and they let God change them by renewing their mind, and heart. ~~ Love.

 

[DuckieLady]

How about calling Mary the joint redeemer? And giving her a status that makes her equal to the Lord?

I apologize for missing this.

I was reading Hebrews 7 last night and I found something worth giving attention that I think goes with what you're saying. This is 23-28.

"Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever."

There is no mention of Mary in that scripture and it makes it clear that there is nobody on earth that had made it equal to Christ and otherwise, surely, somewhere they would have slid in AT LEAST a "oh yeah and Mary..."

But, no, she is not praised in any of this and only Christ is glorified.

Mary was a righteous woman favored by God, but she was just that. She was also not "Virgin Mary" forever - as it states in the Bible that the marriage was consummated after the birth of Christ.

 

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

I apologize for missing this.

I was reading Hebrews 7 last night and I found something worth giving attention that I think goes with what you're saying. This is 23-28.

"Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Such a high priest truly meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

For the law appoints as high priests men in all their weakness; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever."

There is no mention of Mary in that scripture and it makes it clear that there is nobody on earth that had made it equal to Christ and otherwise, surely, somewhere they would have slid in AT LEAST a "oh yeah and Mary..."

But, no, she is not praised in any of this and only Christ is glorified.

Mary was a righteous woman favored by God, but she was just that. She was also not "Virgin Mary" forever - as it states in the Bible that the marriage was consummated after the birth of Christ.

Thanks for clearing that up. Couple of questions if you don't mind. Is it true that the RCC teach that Mary was sinless. And what is the hail Mary, does this not glorify her? Thanks

 

[Taodeching]

okay.

If you share with me one verse that says to pray to the saints in the Bible, I will repent and pray to Saint Paul right now.

Just one. Shouldn't be hard. There's 66 books from front to back. Plenty of room.

Actually there are 72 not the butchered 66 that you use that Jews who hated Christ put together. See the problem is you won't get over your evangicalness to even look at the true meaning of the word pray, that is why having conversations like this are fruitless. You all don't want real conversations just gotcha ones from your butchered bibles.

Instead of asking hat Catholics believe and how you can understand better with having an intelligent conversation, you bear false witness against the brethren. Maybe next tie you could ask nicely, hopefully that is not to hard for protestants to do.