I don't know of many Dems who aren't obsessed with the 'right' for women to kill their babies. I know there are a few, VERY few.I know. What a shock,right?
Even more amazing is the claim there are Christian Democrats .
How do conservative evangelicals reconcile their support for Trump with Trump’s sinful lifestyle?
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How about none of them?? Why come into agreement with any evil man or woman? Your vote doesn't count anyway. If everyone stopped voting, they'd still put their man in.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Did you read all of this? Especially all of the last paragraph?
What I see is Paul saying that to the Romans.
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Got questions says this: Any emphasis is mine.
As perplexing as it may sometimes seem, the Bible explicitly states that all positions of human authority, including those of government officials, have been appointed by God. Therefore, Christians must submit themselves to these governing authorities, recognizing their God-ordained purpose: “Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God” (Romans 13:1).
The apostle Paul is not making a suggestion; he’s issuing a command. In the original language, hypotassesthō (“be subject”) is from a root word meaning “to place or rank under; to submit.” The New Living Translation clearly expresses the present passive imperative verb tense: “Everyone must submit to governing authorities” (Romans 13:1). Paul immediately explains why everyone should be subject to the governing authorities: because “all authority comes from God” (Romans 13:1, NLT).
There is no wiggle room here for Christians. Whether or not we agree with a leader’s policies or politics, we must recognize that God has placed our governing authorities in their positions. Romans 13:1 underscores God’s all-encompassing authority and sovereignty in human affairs. Believers need not fear submitting to governing authorities since it is God who appoints them. Daniel, who served under the evil King Nebuchadnezzar, understood that his God, and not the king, was ultimately in control: “He [God] controls the course of world events; he removes kings and sets up other kings” (Daniel 2:21, NLT).
The apostle Peter agrees, “For the Lord’s sake, submit to all human authority—whether the king as head of state, or the officials he has appointed. For the king has sent them to punish those who do wrong and to honor those who do right. . . . Respect everyone, and love the family of believers. Fear God, and respect the king” (1 Peter 2:13–17, NLT). As a rule, God establishes government leaders to discipline the disobedient (“punish those who do wrong”) and carry out His righteous will on earth (“honor those who do right”). They are “God’s servants” raised up for the good of the people, to enforce order in the societies they govern, and to prevent chaos and lawlessness (Romans 13:3–4; see also Ezra 7:26; Proverbs 29:4, 14).
Paul urges his disciple Timothy to “pray for all people. Ask God to help them; intercede on their behalf, and give thanks for them. Pray this way for kings and all who are in authority so that we can live peaceful and quiet lives marked by godliness and dignity. This is good and pleases God our Savior” (1 Timothy 2:1–3, NLT). Paul tells Titus to “remind the people to be subject to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready to do whatever is good” (Titus 3:1).
We don’t have to like our leaders, but we do have to treat them with respect out of reverence for their God-appointed position. When Paul wrote his letter to the Romans, he was residing under the rule of Nero, one of the cruelest Roman emperors. If Paul could submit to Nero’s authority, then so ought we recognize and respect our civil leaders.
God is the One who “decides who will rise and who will fall” (Psalm 75:6–7). He rules over the king’s heart “like a stream of water directed by the Lord; he guides it wherever he pleases” (Proverbs 21:1, NLT). “Fear the Lord and the king,” counseled Solomon to the wise. “Don’t associate with rebels, for disaster will hit them suddenly. Who knows what punishment will come from the Lord and the king?” (Proverbs 24:21–22, NLT; see also Ecclesiastes 8:2–5; Matthew 22:15–21).
Christians are called to obey their leaders, pay taxes, abide by the laws, and show respect. When we disrespect and rebel against our leaders, ultimately, we disrespect God, who places these authorities over us (Romans 13:2). The Bible says, if we don’t submit, we will incur God’s judgment.
There is only one exception when believers are not to be subject to the governing authorities—when those leaders try to force Christians to contradict the will of God. In Acts 5:22–33, the apostles are arrested for preaching the gospel in Jerusalem and proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ. As they stand trial, the apostle Peter defends their actions with these words: “We must obey God rather than any human authority” (Acts 5:29, NLT; cf. Acts 4:18–19). The Christian has a duty to disobey human authority if the alternative is dishonoring and disobeying God’s law (Exodus 1:17; Daniel 1:8; 3:28; 6:7–10; Hebrews 11:23). When governing authorities attempt to take the place of God by requiring behavior that conflicts with God’s revealed will, then resistance is justified.
+++++++++++++
Neither Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump, or Biden tried to force Christians to contradict the will of God. Not even those who support abortion.
I am not wrong, and neither was Got Questions.
God is in control! He allows EVIL because this world is filled with EVIL people who reject Him! That will soon end. This is the terminal generation.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
So Paul writes it. GQ quote Paul with an interpretation is Calvinist.
Well, at least they are not the RCC
We all really need to have a closer examination of this submission thing; especially in our current time.
Consider this;
When Jesus made a whip and chased all the money lenders out the Temple he was in defiance of secular leadership. But he was right in doing so.
When the disciples where instructed to stop teaching the gospels in the book of acts they were in rebellion against the secular leadership. But they were right and if they did not we would be without understanding now in our time.
We see from the book of acts that many of the original saints had to flee Jerusalem because they were being persecuted for their confession of faith in Christ. They were being punished because they were in rebellion against the secular leadership, but in this the gospel was spread over a much larger area of the earth.
In the very near future we are going to be instructed to take the mark of the beast, are we going to be obedient to the secular leadership over this. The answer should be a resounding NO !
Yes the leadership is ordained by God but in many cases the leadership is appointed as a form of judgment over a nation to punish them. This is where the handing over to their own delusions comes from. Take a look at the current secular leadership over the west. most are all into occult practices, in some cases pure satanic worship sacrificing to demons. It is obvious they are appointed as punishment. They are there to bring Gods judgments upon the nations. The saints were asleep as they crept in and took over. Fact is that what we are looking at is the rise to power of the Son of Perdition. The saints were never expected to follow this .
Now this is important so remember it and pass it along. In fact show a copy of this post to your pastors and observe their reactions.
Here in North America the pastors have been approached by the government three letter agencies to become crisis management agents. They are pressured economically through the non profit entitlements to sign up or lose those entitlements. The pastors are required to drive home to their respective flocks the demand that the flock remain in submission to the secular leadership of the day because that is what the Bible teaches. That teaching alone is unbalanced because it does not cover the requirements of the governing bodies in the teaching.
God is the senior law giver and the secular governments come second while in submission to the laws of God. A lawful government has to be operating under God to be legitimate. Not under science or satan or self will.
Now what has happened is that many pastors have been turned into Judas Goats. Their job will be that when the flock get rounded up for the "reeducation camps" They are to calm the saints by impressing upon them that they are to be submissive to the governing authorities because this is what God expects of them. So off to the ovens they go thinking they are being obedient to God when all the time it is satan that is just sweeping away the one thing that can offer any real opposition to satan.
Consider this;
When Jesus made a whip and chased all the money lenders out the Temple he was in defiance of secular leadership. But he was right in doing so.
When the disciples where instructed to stop teaching the gospels in the book of acts they were in rebellion against the secular leadership. But they were right and if they did not we would be without understanding now in our time.
We see from the book of acts that many of the original saints had to flee Jerusalem because they were being persecuted for their confession of faith in Christ. They were being punished because they were in rebellion against the secular leadership, but in this the gospel was spread over a much larger area of the earth.
In the very near future we are going to be instructed to take the mark of the beast, are we going to be obedient to the secular leadership over this. The answer should be a resounding NO !
Yes the leadership is ordained by God but in many cases the leadership is appointed as a form of judgment over a nation to punish them. This is where the handing over to their own delusions comes from. Take a look at the current secular leadership over the west. most are all into occult practices, in some cases pure satanic worship sacrificing to demons. It is obvious they are appointed as punishment. They are there to bring Gods judgments upon the nations. The saints were asleep as they crept in and took over. Fact is that what we are looking at is the rise to power of the Son of Perdition. The saints were never expected to follow this .
Now this is important so remember it and pass it along. In fact show a copy of this post to your pastors and observe their reactions.
Here in North America the pastors have been approached by the government three letter agencies to become crisis management agents. They are pressured economically through the non profit entitlements to sign up or lose those entitlements. The pastors are required to drive home to their respective flocks the demand that the flock remain in submission to the secular leadership of the day because that is what the Bible teaches. That teaching alone is unbalanced because it does not cover the requirements of the governing bodies in the teaching.
God is the senior law giver and the secular governments come second while in submission to the laws of God. A lawful government has to be operating under God to be legitimate. Not under science or satan or self will.
Now what has happened is that many pastors have been turned into Judas Goats. Their job will be that when the flock get rounded up for the "reeducation camps" They are to calm the saints by impressing upon them that they are to be submissive to the governing authorities because this is what God expects of them. So off to the ovens they go thinking they are being obedient to God when all the time it is satan that is just sweeping away the one thing that can offer any real opposition to satan.
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
I truly have come to realize statements like that and others here, paint a poor picture of God.
I wonder if it is intentional?
During the Covid lockdown
Christians and their churches were threatened if they continued to worship on the property after authorities shuttered the church.
I'm not a Calvinist however, I have the utmost respect for Calvinism's pastor John MacArthur. He not only refused to close his church but he also refused to concede to authorities commands to allow them entry so to monitor the services for compliance to their "Covid social distancing" rules.
He went so far as to lock the church doors at start of services so those authorities could never gain entry.
They never did. And he never ceased preaching.
Last edited:
BlessedPeace
Well-Known Member
John MacArthur’s Church to Receive $800K COVID-19 Settlement
Ahead of the legal payments, the California pastor acknowledged that he and others contracted the virus last winter.
www.christianitytoday.com
As strange as it may seem, at the time of the statement by the Apostle Paul, the people did not choose their leaders. Some of us are hopeful that we do, but it is doubtful. The spread of Christianity at the time of Paul was under God's direction, and Paul's statement was essential to that effort. However, many obedient Christians were tortured and killed. There are many cases of Christian disobedience, and we should not forget that obeying God is so much more important than obeying man. A U.S. president is not selected by birthright. Do we trust God to select our next president? Should we NOT go vote because we think we have no part in that effort? Is it not our duty to stand up and be counted in the next election? If you hate Trump (as it appears to be the case here) certainly don't vote for him.
Traveler correctly said:
"When Jesus made a whip and chased all the money lenders out the Temple he was in defiance of secular leadership. But he was right in doing so.
When the disciples where instructed to stop teaching the gospels in the book of acts they were in rebellion against the secular leadership. But they were right and if they did not we would be without understanding now in our time.
We see from the book of acts that many of the original saints had to flee Jerusalem because they were being persecuted for their confession of faith in Christ. They were being punished because they were in rebellion against the secular leadership, but in this the gospel was spread over a much larger area of the earth.
In the very near future we are going to be instructed to take the mark of the beast, are we going to be obedient to the secular leadership over this. The answer should be a resounding NO !"
I am still waiting for those who hate Trump to tell me who passes the smell test (that I previously termed "messiah") in their opinion.
Traveler correctly said:
"When Jesus made a whip and chased all the money lenders out the Temple he was in defiance of secular leadership. But he was right in doing so.
When the disciples where instructed to stop teaching the gospels in the book of acts they were in rebellion against the secular leadership. But they were right and if they did not we would be without understanding now in our time.
We see from the book of acts that many of the original saints had to flee Jerusalem because they were being persecuted for their confession of faith in Christ. They were being punished because they were in rebellion against the secular leadership, but in this the gospel was spread over a much larger area of the earth.
In the very near future we are going to be instructed to take the mark of the beast, are we going to be obedient to the secular leadership over this. The answer should be a resounding NO !"
I am still waiting for those who hate Trump to tell me who passes the smell test (that I previously termed "messiah") in their opinion.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Well, here is another article... I am sure you might find more to your liking.... If I run our of space, finish at the link.
Context Is Key to Interpreting Romans 13:1-7
A critical factor for biblical interpretation is context, context, context. Nowhere is this point truer than Romans 13:1-7. As Robert Parham's recent
goodfaithmedia.org
Context Is Key to Interpreting Romans 13:1-7
by David May | May 9, 2012 | OpinionA critical factor for biblical interpretation is context, context, context. Nowhere is this point truer than Romans 13:1-7.
As Robert Parham’s recent editorial, “Romans 13 Is Weak Proof-Text for Anti-Immigration Church Members,” illustrates, Romans 13 is often the go-to proof-text for urging compliance with and allegiance to government
authority.
But here is the rub: Romans 13 has absolutely nothing to do with one’s relationship to the government, whether the Roman Empire in the first century or any government today.
That’s right: We have misunderstood, misapplied and missed the point of these verses all because we have divorced them from the original context.
The original Judean context, specifically believers worshipping in the Roman synagogues, makes all the
difference in the world how verses 1-7 are understood.
Let me illustrate this neglected context. First, rarely does a reader consider it odd that these few verses suddenly appear out of nowhere related to the Roman Empire and taxes.
Paul has spent chapter after chapter focused on internal community issues related to Judeans and Gentile believers. Why does Paul change direction from dealing with these issues and digress to a totally off-the-wall subject about Roman rule?
He doesn’t. We have wrenched these verses out of their Judean context and made them service a de-Judaized interpretation – a thing they were never meant to do.
Mark Nanos, author of “The Mystery of Romans: The Jewish Context of Paul’s Letters,” has pointed out this disservice to the text with brilliance, clarity and impeccable research.
What I am suggesting below is indebted to his research, and fuller detail is found in his chapter, “Romans 13:1-7: Christian Obedience to Synagogue Authority.”
In Romans 13:1-7, Paul is writing to Gentile believers in Rome to obey, not Roman secular/pagan authority, but to obey the God-ordained authority of the synagogue rulers in Rome.
This presupposes that the early Jesus believers were continuing to meet with Judean non-believers within the synagogues.
We too quickly have early believers divorcing themselves from the synagogue, discarding Judaism, and establishing something totally new.
Instead, they (Judean believers and Gentile believers) continued to meet and worship in the synagogues.
These believers would also gather for special times in homes to eat, sing and read correspondence, but they did not abandon worshipping with their brothers and sisters who were Judeans – at least not yet.
The possibility of believers leaving the synagogue was Paul’s greatest concern in Romans.
It cut at the heart of theological understanding of what had happened in Jesus Christ. It defied his belief that the new age had dawned in Jesus, a very Judean Messiah.
In Rome, however, Gentile believer arrogance had raised its head. Some believers wanted to cut themselves off from their Judean roots and do their own thing.
Paul would have none of it and gives very clear instructions about how they were to relate to the leaders of the synagogue.
This Judean context makes perfect sense of verses 1-7 as one reads Romans. For example, Paul speaks of authority that exists from God (v.1) and is appointed by God (v. 2). This hardly sounds like a description of Caesar and his predatory legions.
It does, however, ring true about Judean synagogue rulers who can also be called “God’s servants” (v. 4) and “ministers of God” (v.6).
When Paul tells the Gentile believers to pay taxes and revenue (v. 6), he is telling his readers to pay the two-drachma Temple tax. Even the Roman historian Tacitus mentions Gentile converts sending contributions to the Temple.
Paul is dealing with a group that hesitated to send contributions, and he urges them to contribute because it shows that through Christ equality has come upon both Judeans and Gentiles.
Some might question, however, the one image that sounds like it originated in a Roman Empire context: “for the authority does not bear the sword in vain!” (13:4b).
As Nanos points out, this word for sword can also be used for the knife in circumcision (Joshua 5:2), or it could be used metaphorically as a symbol of the authority of the synagogue rulers to inflict punishment.
Paul himself has submitted to such punishment according to his account to the Corinthians: “Five times I have received from the Jews the forty lashes minus one” (2 Corinthians 11:24).
Or perhaps this reference is a metaphor for Scripture as the “Word of God.” At least one New Testament writer is familiar with this image by noting that the Word of God is “sharper than a two-edged sword” (Hebrews 4:12).
In this sense, the synagogue rulers are the interpreters of the Torah, and Paul encourages Gentile believers to give them their due respect.
No doubt many will not be convinced that the original context is a Judean one. They have been too mesmerized by only one perspective.
They will continue to drink deeply from this passage to support giving allegiance to this program or that agenda of a secular government – but it is a dry hole.
To see government authority as the focal point in this passage is an interpretative mirage.
Context, context, context causes the mirage to fade into the clear vision of Paul’s very real concern about Judean nonbelievers’ and Gentile believers’ relationship.
David M. May is professor of New Testament at Central Baptist Theological Seminary.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
He is the only modern president that delivered on his promises.
You got it exactly backwards.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Btw
Post is a vid of a dem president invoking God and family as we see trump doing on a regular basis.
We see trump doing it and following through.
Dems are basically a hairs breath away from anti Christ commies
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Well.
A do nothing attitude helps to open the floodgates to all the evil the dems are putting on america.
rebuilder 454
Well-Known Member
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Isn't that what repentance is?
If you do something wrong, you turn from it and try to make it right?
Sounds like walking the walk and not just talking the talk to me.
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