How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[Waiting on him]

I’m not disputing that.
Does the veil still remain over any hearts?
Enter in through the veil, that is to say His flesh? For the veil still remains, yet “when it turns to God the veil is removed” then we will see God, Face to Face.
Entering in “through His flesh” is not without suffering?
I know we talked before about what we think is the promised Land God was talking about. How do you enter into that promised Land? i have a feeling you will say again “through His flesh” we enter in. Not disputing that. I am trying to share that may not be what we think having to do with self but instead “God works mightily towards another” does a tree bearing Fruit eat its own fruit, or is it for another?

Hope it goes well for you

 

[Episkopos]

No, the one bringing in an different gospel is you--the gospel of salvation a "human invention?!"

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Scriptures is not in agreement with you, and I am not in agreement with you.

To you that would be the gospel of "their" salvation since Paul is talking about salvation to the inner man not the uncrucified outer man that I was referring to, and that you responded with (and you know that to be true).

I hope you (the carnal man) are not in agreement with the scriptures. They are not written to you (the carnal man). They are to be understood by the inner man of faith.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

To you that would be the gospel of "their" salvation since Paul is talking about salvation to the inner man not the uncrucified outer man that I was referring to, and that you responded with (and you know that to be true).

I hope you (the carnal man) are not in agreement with the scriptures. They are not written to you (the carnal man). They are to be understood by the inner man of faith.

The outer man is what needs saved.. The inner man is dead without it.

 

[Lizbeth]

This I don’t get. As far as doctrines or theologies go, one thing that ruffles peoples feathers the quickest is suggest it isn’t a literal kingdom with a white bearded man sitting upon a gaudy throne, ruling with a rod in his hand. Eyes will bulge if you ever question the literal-ness of it, but here it is okay to say it isn’t literal. When it may be more real and tangible than living a lie. Because to me that is what is being said: stop pretending and deceiving yourself, face some truth. How much more literal can it be?

The kingdom of God is real, it is within and among us. (Though the rod of iron is not literal but is allegorical for His word...sword.) I'm just saying putting on/off old and new man is not literal in the sense of putting on/off a coat, but that it is an allegory and manner of speaking referring to walking in the spirit, which of course is real. But a believer has the choice of walking in the spirit (new man) or walking in the flesh (old man). We are to put our old man under our feet, under the feet of Christ. Those who have tasted the powers of the world to come still have the potential to fall, apparently, since the word of God warns of this.

 

[MatthewG]

Mortifying the flesh, to live by the spirit.

If sin is dead it is like cutting off a cancer and no longer having the infection, though our flesh will rile up from time to time; submission to the Father with prayer and asking for help will, in turn lead you reckoning oneself dead to sin.

 

[Waiting on him]

To you that would be the gospel of "their" salvation since Paul is talking about salvation to the inner man not the uncrucified outer man that I was referring to, and that you responded with (and you know that to be true).

I hope you (the carnal man) are not in agreement with the scriptures. They are not written to you (the carnal man). They are to be understood by the inner man of faith.

How long after putting someone on ignorant before you no longer see their comments?

 

[Lizbeth]

What the calling means to me. I’m paraphrasing all of it because I struggle to get a point across. To me it is something that can not be faked. No way around it. It may be long and maybe I am wrong, but to me this is what He keeps saying needs to happen which to me seems like a whole new height of impossible. Entering in “through a veil” into the Holiest place. To me that is what epi keeps saying about entering in through that veil (that outer man); seeking after the inner man (the Holiest of Holy). Maybe I misunderstood epi but he does speak of the inner man.

To me it helps explain better “loss of our own image” for the sake of “gaining His.” As brilliant and sufficient as man thinks he is, especially at manipulating what is said to skirt around any “by a New and Living Way” : there is no skirting around it. I mean Only God can enter in through the outer man going right for the New inner man. That is it. Only God can do the impossible for example when they asked Him “who then can be saved” in regards to the rich man. His response was a clear “with men it is impossible. But all things are possible with God.”

This may come off as crazy. Is it fictional? A sit back and do nothing kind of Faith? that is not what I’m hearing at all but a call to “a New and Living Way”
“I have given them a Land” even “entered in before them”… “enter in”

to me it says something so hopeful if we would consider it. But then again, we probably won’t because it will require “loss of our own image” to “gain His likeness”. If it contradicts in any way our tightly gripped beliefs, we are not willing to let go of them. I can’t say it enough…that to me…there is no way around it where even He said: the entering in to the Kingdom of God is through much suffering.

The bible says our inner man has been renewed in knowledge after the image of He who created him. We HAVE entered the holy of holies in the inner man. That is why the born again believer is seated in heavenly places, in the inner man of the spirit. That is also why Paul said "I delight in the law of God after the inward man" and "with the mind" (ie, mind of Christ), even if the flesh/body of sin doesn't delight in the law of God. The inner man of the heart, a new heart, that God's laws are written on, ie, conscience. But we need to be walking in that, not walking according to our old conversation in our old man which is corrupt (Eph 4:22). That's what the battle is all about, or part of it, the good fight of faith. The truth is just as written , sister, seems to be all harmonious to me, and not complicated, but easy to be entreated. So many teachings about walking in the spirit, and not after the flesh......which we are to grow in. Growing up INTO the Head, which is Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Hope it goes well for you

I hope so. Because I would not want you to hope I fail and that it doesn’t go well for me. Since if one of us fails; then we both fail.

 

[Waiting on him]

@Episkopos what I’ve come too see is that I am not a first century Jew, and in no way have suffered any religious persecution.

So how in the world does any of this have anything to do with me?

 

[Lizbeth]

What the calling means to me. I’m paraphrasing all of it because I struggle to get a point across. To me it is something that can not be faked. No way around it. It may be long and maybe I am wrong, but to me this is what He keeps saying needs to happen which to me seems like a whole new height of impossible. Entering in “through a veil” into the Holiest place. To me that is what epi keeps saying about entering in through that veil (that outer man); seeking after the inner man (the Holiest of Holy). Maybe I misunderstood epi but he does speak of the inner man.

To me it helps explain better “loss of our own image” for the sake of “gaining His.” As brilliant and sufficient as man thinks he is, especially at manipulating what is said to skirt around any “by a New and Living Way” : there is no skirting around it. I mean Only God can enter in through the outer man going right for the New inner man. That is it. Only God can do the impossible for example when they asked Him “who then can be saved” in regards to the rich man. His response was a clear “with men it is impossible. But all things are possible with God.”

This may come off as crazy. Is it fictional? A sit back and do nothing kind of Faith? that is not what I’m hearing at all but a call to “a New and Living Way”
“I have given them a Land” even “entered in before them”… “enter in”

to me it says something so hopeful if we would consider it. But then again, we probably won’t because it will require “loss of our own image” to “gain His likeness”. If it contradicts in any way our tightly gripped beliefs, we are not willing to let go of them. I can’t say it enough…that to me…there is no way around it where even He said: the entering in to the Kingdom of God is through much suffering.

Is this the scripture you had in mind?

1Co 15:48

As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

 

[Lizbeth]

In case that wasn’t clear enough. I think “the veil” that we enter in to God’s rest, is through “the veil” that remains over those spitting, rejecting, casting out, resisting, kicking against Christ, cursing and despising. That to me is what seems to take “impossible” to a whole new height. Instead it truly makes at least me contemplate running- for-the- hills- kind- of- impossible.

Old Testament support: I go before you and will give unto you the hidden riches kept in secret and dark places.

As we grow, the Lord opens more of His word to us. And what He reveals helps us to grow more, showing us the way forward......His word being a lamp unto our feet and light unto our path.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How long after putting someone on ignorant before you no longer see their comments?

yeah, since we can not argue against them, we just ignore them

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I hope so. Because I would not want you to hope I fail and that it doesn’t go well for me. Since if one of us fails; then we both fail.

well you definitely have a humble heart. I pray you share some of that with your husband. Not sure if he is angry or what. But he has some soul searching to do

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Episkopos what I’ve come too see is that I am not a first century Jew, and in no way have suffered any religious persecution.

So how in the world does any of this have anything to do with me?

lol.. Its all about the first century Jews

You are perfect and do not need saved, is that what you are saying?

Please not. Col 2 was written to a Gentile church not a jewish church. so sdaying the handwritting of ordinances does not relate to you would be in error

 

[Jim B]

dont find this so hard to believe jim . Marvel not if satans ministirs can indeed appear as righteous .
Satan himself can appear as an angel of light , and HE is DARKNESS .
HE has ministirs who have long infiltrated some churches and have taken them all captive to a lie which WILL NOT save them .
You do realize that due to all this junk they been pumping into the churches
that now seventy percent of christendom believes GOD is fine with all religoins . JIM
, JIM , Satan infiltrates my friend . And he knows how to decieve too . And he has many ministirs
dug deep within christendom . I know you dont want to believe this or hear this .
IT breaks my heart too jim . BUT at least i am doing something about it and exposing that which is false
and those who are false . Get in the BIBLE and do you some real learning and fast too .

Once again, your are setting yourself up as the judge of the body of Christ! Who do you think you are?

You will have to answer to Christ for assuming the role of undershepherd and punishing His sheep.

Here is a perfect example: "HE has ministirs [sic] who have long infiltrated some churches and have taken them all captive to a lie which WILL NOT save them. => Where is the evidence of this? <= Can you give actual examples of these churches? What specifically is the lie to which you are referring?

And then you make the absurd, unfounded statement that " seventy percent of christendom [sic] believes GOD is fine with all religoins [sic]" What is the factual basis of this accusation? IMHO, in my extensive experience in quite a few churches, I have never heard this spoken!!!

Satan infiltrates ...and he knows how to deceive YOU! You have become his agent, attacking the body of Christ, the sheep of His pasture, with unproven statements. You are clearly not ":doing something about it and exposing that which is false and those who are false". You are crucifying Christ all over again under the guise of righteousness. SHAME ON YOU!!!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As we grow, the Lord opens more of His word to us. And what He reveals helps us to grow more, showing us the way forward......His word being a lamp unto our feet and light unto our path.

amen

We continue to run that race and let God grow us

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Once again, your are setting yourself up as the judge of the body of Christ! Who do you think you are?

You will have to answer to Christ for assuming the role of undershepherd and punishing His sheep.

Here is a perfect example: "HE has ministirs [sic] who have long infiltrated some churches and have taken them all captive to a lie which WILL NOT save them. => Where is the evidence of this? <= Can you give actual examples of these churches? What specifically is the lie to which you are referring?

And then you make the absurd, unfounded statement that " seventy percent of christendom [sic] believes GOD is fine with all religoins [sic]" What is the factual basis of this accusation? IMHO, in my extensive experience in quite a few churches, I have never heard this spoken!!!

Satan infiltrates ...and he knows how to deceive YOU! You have become his agent, attacking the body of Christ, the sheep of His pasture, with unproven statements. You are clearly not ":doing something about it and exposing that which is false and those who are false". You are crucifying Christ all over again under the guise of righteousness. SHAME ON YOU!!!

not everyone who claims to be part of the body of Christ is.

 

[amigo de christo]

Once again, your are setting yourself up as the judge of the body of Christ! Who do you think you are?

You will have to answer to Christ for assuming the role of undershepherd and punishing His sheep.

Here is a perfect example: "HE has ministirs [sic] who have long infiltrated some churches and have taken them all captive to a lie which WILL NOT save them. => Where is the evidence of this? <= Can you give actual examples of these churches? What specifically is the lie to which you are referring?

And then you make the absurd, unfounded statement that " seventy percent of christendom [sic] believes GOD is fine with all religoins [sic]" What is the factual basis of this accusation? IMHO, in my extensive experience in quite a few churches, I have never heard this spoken!!!

Satan infiltrates ...and he knows how to deceive YOU! You have become his agent, attacking the body of Christ, the sheep of His pasture, with unproven statements. You are clearly not ":doing something about it and exposing that which is false and those who are false". You are crucifying Christ all over again under the guise of righteousness. SHAME ON YOU!!!

false prophets aint his sheep , how long will it take you to figure that one out .
MANY false prophets , many false teachers shall arise and shall decieve many .
Just as there were false prophets among the jews , so too will there be false teachers among YOU CHURCH .
They are all over the places . AND i am gonna expose them and their lies .
For the love of the peoples i shall do all to exhort and to warn . These so called prophets , leaders and teachers
have Decieved the peoples . I will expose them and the lies they do teach .
And i aint alone , there are many lambs who are doing the same .

 

[Episkopos]

@Episkopos what I’ve come too see is that I am not a first century Jew, and in no way have suffered any religious persecution.

So how in the world does any of this have anything to do with me?

Paul is informing us to what is now accessible to us by faith. By faith I don't mean name it and claim as many do here. No, it means we go to God for HIS grace...not assume we already have it or claimed to be justified for reading the bible.

If we trust in Christ we will be saved. But that trust only works if we remain humble and fearing...if we claim to be more than we are then we will suffer under judgment. If we are merciful we will be shown mercy. So then we go hard on ourselves but easier on others.

We should at least be righteous in our words and actions. If we seek the face of God in a full surrender...we just might experience what we read about in the bible. We should never give up seeking God's face...and to be where He is.

Seek first the kingdom and His righteousness. But do what is right, fearing the Lord.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Paul is informing us to what is now accessible to us by faith. By faith I don't mean name it and claim as many do here. No, it means we go to God for HIS grace...not assume we already have it or claimed to be justified for reading the bible.

If we trust in Christ we will be saved. But that trust only works if we remain humble and fearing...if we claim to be more than we are then we will suffer under judgment. If we are merciful we will be shown mercy. So then we go hard on ourselves but easier on others.

We should at least be righteous in our words and actions. If we seek the face of God in a full surrender...we just might experience what we read about in the bible. We should never give up seeking God's face...and to be where He is.

Seek first the kingdom and His righteousness. But do what is right, fearing the Lord.

so it is faith plus..

It is Not Gods work in us, it is our power and ability to remain humble and fearing, we have to shew mercy, be righteous and wordfs and actions. And seek God in full surrender, and then you just MIGHT experience...

Please do not tell people you are trusting in God..; You think you have to do all these works of self righteousness. then MAYBE just MAYBE you can experience God..