How are we to reckon ourselves as being dead to sin?

[GTW27]

Yeah, I don’t believe Jesus is God.

Jesus is Lord. Now your turn. Can you say Jesus is Lord?

 

[Waiting on him]

1 Corinthians 2:9-13 KJV
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. [12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. [13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

 

[ChristisGod]

Jesus is Lord. Now your turn. Can you say Jesus is Lord?

And we know that Lord means YHWH. PAul says one must confess Jesus is Lord ( YHWH ) to be saved in Romans 10 and quotes Joel 2 and applies it to Christ.

To Confess





NT:3670 ‎o(mologe/w ‎homologeo (hom-ol-og-eh'-o);

Strong's Concordance

homologeó: to speak the same, to agree

Original Word: ὁμολογέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: homologeó
Phonetic Spelling: (hom-ol-og-eh'-o)
Definition: to speak the same, to agree
Usage: (a) I promise, agree, (b) I confess, (c) I publicly declare, (d) a Hebraism, I praise, celebrate.

3670 homologéō (from 3674 /homoú, "together" and 3004 /légō, "speak to a conclusion") – properly, to voice the same conclusion, i.e. agree ("confess"); to profess (confess) because in full agreement; to align with (endorse)

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Penal substitution. Now that’s one heck of a thing for me to wrap my head around. In the epistles they crucified the flesh with the affections and the lusts, Jesus also saying take up your cross and follow me. It kinda sounds too me as if they took a whipping as well.

The Penal substitution theory goes something like this: we all owe God a butt load of punishment for our sins. The only way to settle accounts is for an infinite being such as Jesus to pay for all the sins of the world. (I don't think the Bible teaches this.)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

1 Corinthians 2:9-13 KJV
[9] But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. [12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. [13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

According to the law. What is the penalty or wage of sin? Or anyone that does not keep the law perfectly (which only Christ did)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Penal substitution theory goes something like this: we all owe God a butt load of punishment for our sins. The only way to settle accounts is for an infinite being such as Jesus to pay for all the sins of the world. (I don't think the Bible teaches this.)

Again.

According to the law. What was the wage of sin. And what had to happen for sin to be forgiven?

and PS. A boatload of punishment? There is only one penalty of sin. not a boatload

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It is easy to take a passage. And break it down. All we have to do is copy the passage, and past it. Then highlight key phrases and words. And give an explanation of what these things mean. In the end, take all of these things and give an explanation of the passage.

I’m unorganized. That is just who I am. When I read the word almost never do I think of where the word is going to take me, or where I’m going to end up. I have no preconceived idea of what is there that I’ve never seen before, but need to see. I say need because of correction for what I’ve repeated to others but didn’t even understand myself. I love this because to me study becomes a comforting conversation to me. Not to learn, but how often what is brought out knows what I needed to hear better than myself. As if He truly speaks. I can relate to what you said about highlighting passages but I don’t highlight phrases or words but they do stand out. And those I follow. That is what I was trying to share with you about the passage concerning His body and the Spirit given to build up His body. .

You said “Then highlight key phrases and words. And give an explanation of what these things mean.”
That is exactly how I ended up in the New Testament at the passage on if the hand says it doesn’t need the foot, and the eyes say they don’t need the ears …then how will it hear? How all members are necessary one toward another. “And give an explanation of what these things mean.”

Doing exactly as you suggested. The starting place: I realized I do not know much about: what IS made with the hands of men while reading the verse of the day one morning. The verse came from the Old Testament. So there began a journey of unorganized study of allowing it to go to what IS made with the hands of men? I tried to share with you an idol made like unto themselves. That led me to men making one a proselyte like unto themselves. Taking their religion their idol and making another unto that image of themselves. Like cloning of self…now if you would really think about that: in cloning of self, making a host of mini-selves what is building built? What is being grown and “multiplied”? Is it Christ?

But it also led to it wasn’t only hay, stubble, chaff but also gold, silver, and stone included in the works of men’s hands. Like every thing else that passage on building upon Christ becomes we are the gold, silver, stones…others are the hay, stubble, chaff.

If you go to the passage of be careful what is built upon the foundation which is Christ. Immediately it becomes hay, stubble chaff is understood as wrong to build upon the foundation of Christ. But where does it say there gold, silver, or stone is the preferred? As if hay, stubble and chaff is some people on one side who “we can’t wait till they burn” —and the gold, silver, stones…one the right side? I don’t see that there but the whole list of that which IS made with with mens hands …that includes all in the list including silver, gold, stone if it is the works of men’s hands. It too burns. “Whatever is not in faith is sin.” but we pick and choose which when all are included there with the warning of what to build upon the foundation of Christ. Because the ONLY foundation is Christ …no man can lay hay, stubble, chaff, gold, silver, stone …upon this Foundation except Christ.

Acts 20:32-34 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. [33] I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. [34] Yea, you yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

I take apparel to mean what is put on or taken off? To not covet to be clothed in corruption and the deeds (works) of the flesh…but covet to be found clothed in The New Man which is Christ. Which again leads back to the passage of the Spirit given for the edification and building up of His body where Paul said if you are going to covet…and I show you a more excellent way. You asserted over and over there is no connection between that which IS made with the hands of men…and that which is made without hands and of God. That is like saying there is no connection between your favorite passage with John 3 …when Nicodemus asked about being born again. You can’t deny Jesus Christ made the connection to births. Same with what IS made with the works of men’s hands(hay, stubble, chaff, stones, sliver, gold (idols made like unto themselves destroyed in the fire) …and that which is made without hands and of God. To me there is a connection in …what is the difference? Which nicodemus kept asking Jesus Christ.

Do you think I am saying they are the same and trying to say that passage concerning the edification of His body …is building an idol? It that birth into the world is the same as birth out of it? If so, that is not what I meant but instead I was studying by looking at idols which have no breath or have no life in them… I was studying “do not make idols like unto yourselves”. Do you think I was suggesting His body isn’t unique or needful, all parts necessary? That is not what I meant by sharing with you.

My concern is this. To be blunt I have had a conversation before on the board with one that follows the teaching you all keep asserting has no flaw. The conversation was about gold …I kept trying to share the streets paved with gold IS streets paved with Faith. They asserted “no it is real gold” then we slid off into a back and forth about “pure gold” …how I didn’t get…or understand how “pure” literal gold can be. Even discussing how testing its (literal gold for its quality…My concern is where ears are stopped and refuse any other parts of the body that God has given…. The promotion is encouraging literal idols of making one line unto yourselves —by what is promoted—that can’t see (the kingdom of God), can’t hear(His voice), can’t taste (the good word of what is to come), can’t smell(his sweet savor), and can’t touch or feel after Him.

So I get your concern for me as following something false and something that can’t save. THAT is why I studied “idols” that can’t save you.

but when someone tells me and debates literal gold value over Faith being more precious that Gold tried in the fire…and this being one who jumps on the band wagon of blaming epi for promoting the flesh instead of the inner man which God is after… as much as you all scratch your heads wondering what is going on shouting “false”…I do also have the same concern because to me what is promoted speaks for itself.

 

[Waiting on him]

The Penal substitution theory goes something like this: we all owe God a butt load of punishment for our sins. The only way to settle accounts is for an infinite being such as Jesus to pay for all the sins of the world. (I don't think the Bible teaches this.)

It would depend on what a person believes too be the world?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m unorganized. That is just who I am. When I read the word almost never do I think of where the word is going to take me, or where I’m going to end up. I have no preconceived idea of what is there that I’ve never seen before, but need to see. I say need because of correction for what I’ve repeated to others but didn’t even understand myself. I love this because to me study becomes a comforting conversation to me. Not to learn, but how often what is brought out knows what I needed to hear better than myself. As if He truly speaks. I can relate to what you said about highlighting passages but I don’t highlight phrases or words but they do stand out. And those I follow. That is what I was trying to share with you about the passage concerning His body and the Spirit given to build up His body. .

You said “Then highlight key phrases and words. And give an explanation of what these things mean.”
That is exactly how I ended up in the New Testament at the passage on if the hand says it doesn’t need the foot, and the eyes say they don’t need the ears …then how will it hear? How all members are necessary one toward another.

The starting place: I realized I do not know much about: what IS made with the hands of men while reading the verse of the day one morning. The verse came from the Old Testament. So there began a journey of unorganized study of allowing it to go to what IS made with the hands of men? I tried to share with you an idol made like unto themselves. That led me to men making one a proselyte like unto themselves. Taking their religion their idol and making another unto that image of themselves. Like cloning of self…now if you would really think about that: in cloning of self, making a host of mini-selves what is building built? What is being grown and “multiplied”?

But it also led to it wasn’t only hay, stubble, chaff but also gold, silver, and stone included in the works of men’s hands. Like every things else that passage on building becomes we are the gold, silver, stones…others are hay, stubble, chaff.

If you go to the passage of be careful what is built upon the foundation which is Christ. Immediately it becomes hay, stubble chaff is understood as wrong to build upon the foundation of Christ. But where does it say there gold, silver, or stone is the preferred? As if hay, stubble and chaff is some people on one side who “we can’t wait till they burn” —and the gold, silver, stones…one the right side? I don’t see that there but the whole list of that which IS made with with mens hands …that includes all in the list including silver, gold, stone if it is the works of men’s hands. It too burns. “Whatever is not in faith is sin.” but we pick and choose which when all are included there with the warning of what to build upon the foundation of Christ. Because the ONLY foundation is Christ …no man can lay hay, stubble, chaff, gold, silver, stone …upon this Foundation except Christ.

Acts 20:32-34 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified. [33] I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. [34] Yea, you yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

I take apparel to mean what is put on or taken off? To not covet to be clothed in corruption and the deeds (works) of the flesh…but covet to be found clothed in The New Man which is Christ. Which again leads back to the passage of the Spirit given for the edification and building up of His body where Paul said if you are going to covet…and I show you a more excellent way. You asserted over and over there is no connection between that which IS made with the hands of men…and that which is made without hands and of God. That is like saying there is no connection between your favorite passage with John 3 …when Nicodemus asked about being born again. You can’t deny Jesus Christ made the connection to births. Same with what made with the works of men’s hands…and that which is made without hands and of God. To me there is a connection in …what is the difference? Which nicodemus kept asking Jesus Christ.

Do you think I am saying they are the same and trying to say that passage concerning the edification of His body …is building an idol? It that birth into the world is the same as birth out of it? If so, that is not what I meant but instead I was studying by looking at idols which have no breath or have no life in them… I was studying “do not make idols like unto yourselves”. Do you think I was suggesting His body isn’t unique or needful, all parts necessary? That is not what I meant by sharing with you.

My concern is this. To be blunt I have had a conversation before on the board with one that follows the teaching you all keep asserting has no flaw. The conversation was about gold …I kept trying to share the streets paved with gold IS streets paved with Faith. They asserted “no it is real gold” then we slid off into a back and forth about “pure gold” …how I didn’t get…or understand how pure literal gold can be. My concern is where ears are stopped and refuse any other parts of the body that God has given…. The promotion is encouraging literal idols of making one line unto yourselves —by what is promoted—that can’t see (the kingdoms of God), can’t hear(His voice), can’t taste (the good word of what is to come), can’t smell(his sweet savor), and can’t touch or feel after Him.

So I get your concern for me as following something false and something that can’t save. THAT is why I studied “idols” that can’t save you.

but when someone tells me and debates literal gold value over Faith being more precious that Gold tried in the fire…and this being one who jumps on the band wagon of blaming epi for promoting the flesh instead of the inner man which God is after… as much as you all scratch your heads wondering what is going on shouting “false”…I do also have the same concern because to me what is promoted speaks for itself.

I agree, Faith is purer than Gold. Because faith saves.. Gold is worthless without Faith, Because without faith it is impossible to be saved.

also. without faith. there will be no gold silver precisou stone, wood hay or straw.. There will only be death.

As for the passage, Again, we can't pull one or two verses out. we have to take the whole passage and the whole conversation out to see what is being said

 

[Episkopos]

Again.

According to the law. What was the wage of sin. And what had to happen for sin to be forgiven?

The mercy of God.

 

[Waiting on him]

According to the law. What is the penalty or wage of sin? Or anyone that does not keep the law perfectly (which only Christ did)

He touched lepers.

 

[Waiting on him]

The mercy of God.

Amen.

 

[Waiting on him]

The mercy of God.

John 1:17 KJV
[17] For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I agree, Faith is purer than Gold. Because faith saves.. Gold is worthless without Faith, Because without faith it is impossible to be saved.

also. without faith. there will be no gold silver precisou stone, wood hay or straw.. There will only be death.

As for the passage, Again, we can't pull one or two verses out. we have to take the whole passage and the whole conversation out to see what is being said

Do you think I pulled out two verses and harped on them? You don’t see any connection between that made with the hands of men and that which is made without hands and of God …as the two births Christ spoke to nicodemus of? One from beneath and passed down through generations of men…and One given from above and of God? Made without the works of men’s hands?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Do you think I pulled out two verses and harped on them? You don’t see any connection between that made with the hands of men and that which is made without hands and of God …as the two births Christ spoke to nicodemus of? One from beneath and passed down through generations of men…and One given from above and of God? Made without the works of men’s hands?

If you still say no…
John 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Are you a master of Israel, and know not these things?

 

[ChristisGod]

The Penal substitution theory goes something like this: we all owe God a butt load of punishment for our sins. The only way to settle accounts is for an infinite being such as Jesus to pay for all the sins of the world. (I don't think the Bible teaches this.)

It teaches The Fathers wrath / anger / hate was on the Son as punishment for sin

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The mercy of God.

Mercy of God?

Lev 16:

The Day of Atonement​

16 Now the Lord spoke to Moses after the death of the two sons of Aaron, when they offered profane fire before the Lord, and died; 2 and the Lord said to Moses: “Tell Aaron your brother not to come at just any time into the Holy Place inside the veil, before the mercy seat which is on the ark, lest he die; for I will appear in the cloud above the mercy seat.


3 “Thus Aaron shall come into the Holy Place: with the blood of a young bull as a sin offering, and of a ram as a burnt offering. 4 He shall put the holy linen tunic and the linen trousers on his body; he shall be girded with a linen sash, and with the linen turban he shall be attired. These are holy garments. Therefore he shall wash his body in water, and put them on. 5 And he shall take from the congregation of the children of Israel two kids of the goats as a sin offering, and one ram as a burnt offering.


6 “Aaron shall offer the bull as a sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house. 7 He shall take the two goats and present them before the Lord at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 8 Then Aaron shall cast lots for the two goats: one lot for the Lord and the other lot for the scapegoat. 9 And Aaron shall bring the goat on which the Lord’s lot fell, and offer it as a sin offering. 10 But the goat on which the lot fell to be the scapegoat shall be presented alive before the Lord, to make atonement upon it, and to let it go as the scapegoat into the wilderness.


11 “And Aaron shall bring the bull of the sin offering, which is for himself, and make atonement for himself and for his house, and shall kill the bull as the sin offering which is for himself. 12 Then he shall take a censer full of burning coals of fire from the altar before the Lord, with his hands full of sweet incense beaten fine, and bring it inside the veil. 13 And he shall put the incense on the fire before the Lord, that the cloud of incense may cover the mercy seat that is on the Testimony, lest he die. 14 He shall take some of the blood of the bull and sprinkle it with his finger on the mercy seat on the east side; and before the mercy seat he shall sprinkle some of the blood with his finger seven times.


15 “Then he shall kill the goat of the sin offering, which is for the people, bring its blood inside the veil, do with that blood as he did with the blood of the bull, and sprinkle it on the mercy seat and before the mercy seat. 16 So he shall make atonement for the Holy Place, because of the uncleanness of the children of Israel, and because of their transgressions, for all their sins; and so he shall do for the tabernacle of meeting which remains among them in the midst of their uncleanness. 17 There shall be no man in the tabernacle of meeting when he goes in to make atonement in the Holy Place, until he comes out, that he may make atonement for himself, for his household, and for all the assembly of Israel. 18 And he shall go out to the altar that is before the Lord, and make atonement for it, and shall take some of the blood of the bull and some of the blood of the goat, and put it on the horns of the altar all around. 19 Then he shall sprinkle some of the blood on it with his finger seven times, cleanse it, and consecrate[b] it from the [c]uncleanness of the children of Israel.


20 “And when he has made an end of atoning for the Holy Place, the tabernacle of meeting, and the altar, he shall bring the live goat. 21 Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, confess over it all the iniquities of the children of Israel, and all their transgressions, concerning all their sins, putting them on the head of the goat, and shall send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a suitable man. 22 The goat shall bear on itself all their iniquities to an uninhabited land; and he shall release the goat in the wilderness.


23 “Then Aaron shall come into the tabernacle of meeting, shall take off the linen garments which he put on when he went into the Holy Place, and shall leave them there. 24 And he shall wash his body with water in a holy place, put on his garments, come out and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people, and make [f]atonement for himself and for the people. 25 The fat of the sin offering he shall burn on the altar. 26 And he who released the goat as the scapegoat shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward he may come into the camp. 27 The bull for the sin offering and the goat for the sin offering, whose blood was brought in to make atonement in the Holy Place, shall be carried outside the camp. And they shall burn in the fire their skins, their flesh, and their offal. 28 Then he who burns them shall wash his clothes and bathe his body in water, and afterward he may come into the camp.


29 “This shall be a statute forever for you: In the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, you shall [g]afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether a native of your own country or a stranger who [h]dwells among you. 30 For on that day the priest shall make [i]atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. 31 It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever. 32 And the priest, who is anointed and consecrated to minister as priest in his father’s place, shall make atonement, and put on the linen clothes, the holy garments; 33 then he shall make atonement for the Holy Sanctuary, and he shall make atonement for the tabernacle of meeting and for the altar, and he shall make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly. 34 This shall be an everlasting statute for you, to make atonement for the children of Israel, for all their sins, once a year.” And he did as the Lord commanded Moses.

Where is Gods mercy here? This sure is alot of Blood that had to be spilled or shed for the sins of the people. year after year. How many animals died? Even the scapegoat was sent out where preditors will kill it.

This is what the law said was required to pay for sin.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He touched lepers.

he touched lepers? That was what was done to atone for the sin of the people?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Amen.

Mercy had a payment.. Gods love can not overrule his justice.

 

[Jim B]

What is the penalty or wage for sin?

Death