Misunderstanding!There is another thread waiting for trolls. I don't believe you are one, but if you wish to identify as such, who's to stop you?
Mariah's Song is not one...
HERESY?
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Mariah's Song is not one...
bbyrd009
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FYI Good works
Testimony of the early church in the successors of the apostles! Verified by acts 2:42
THEOPHILUS OF ANTIOCH
“He who gave the mouth for speech and formed the ears for hearing and made eyes for seeing will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works [Rom. 2:7], he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things, which neither eye has seen nor ear has heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man [1 Cor. 2:9]. For the unbelievers and the contemptuous and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity . . . there will be wrath and indignation [Rom. 2:8]” (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181]).
HIPPOLYTUS
“Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment,’ and the justice of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment” (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]).
CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE
“The Lord denounces [Christian evildoers], and says, ‘Many shall say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name have cast out devils, and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you who work iniquity’ [Matt. 7:21–23]. There is need of righteousness, that one may deserve well of God the Judge; we must obey his precepts and warnings, that our merits may receive their reward” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 15, 1st ed. [A.D. 251]).
“[Y]ou who are a matron rich and wealthy, anoint not your eyes with the antimony of the devil, but with the collyrium of Christ, so that you may at last come to see God, when you have merited before God both by your works and by your manner of living” (Works and Almsgivings 14 [A.D. 253]).
LACTANTIUS
“Let every one train himself to righteousness, mold himself to self-restraint, prepare himself for the contest, equip himself for virtue . . . [and] in his uprightness acknowledge the true and only God, may cast away pleasures, by the attractions of which the lofty soul is depressed to the earth, may hold fast innocence, may be of service to as many as possible, may gain for himself incorruptible treasures by good works, that he may be able, with God for his judge, to gain for the merits of his virtue either the crown of faith, or the reward of immortality” (Epitome of the Divine Institutes 73 [A.D. 317]).
CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“The root of every good work is the hope of the resurrection, for the expectation of a reward nerves the soul to good work. Every laborer is prepared to endure the toils if he looks forward to the reward of these toils” (Catechetical Lectures 18:1 [A.D. 350]).
JEROME
“It is our task, according to our different virtues, to prepare for ourselves different rewards. . . . If we were all going to be equal in heaven it would be useless for us to humble ourselves here in order to have a greater place there. . . . Why should virgins persevere? Why should widows toil? Why should married women be content? Let us all sin, and after we repent we shall be the same as the apostles are!” (Against Jovinian 2:32 [A.D. 393]).
AUGUSTINE
“We are commanded to live righteously, and the reward is set before us of our meriting to live happily in eternity. But who is able to live righteously and do good works unless he has been justified by faith?” (Various Questions to Simplician 1:2:21 [A.D. 396]).
“He bestowed forgiveness; the crown he will pay out. Of forgiveness he is the donor; of the crown, he is the debtor. Why debtor? Did he receive something? . . . The Lord made himself a debtor not by receiving something but by promising something. One does not say to him, ‘Pay for what you received,’ but ‘Pay what you promised’” (Explanations of the Psalms 83:16 [A.D. 405]).
“What merits of his own has the saved to boast of when, if he were dealt with according to his merits, he would be nothing if not damned? Have the just then no merits at all? Of course they do, for they are the just. But they had no merits by which they were made just” (Letters 194:3:6 [A.D. 412]).
“What merit, then, does a man have before grace, by which he might receive grace, when our every good merit is produced in us only by grace and when God, crowning our merits, crowns nothing else but his own gifts to us?” (ibid., 194:5:19).
PROSPER OF AQUITAINE
“Indeed, a man who has been justified, that is, who from impious has been made pious, since he had no antecedent good merit, receives a gift, by which gift he may also acquire merit. Thus, what was begun in him by Christ’s grace can also be augmented by the industry of his free choice, but never in the absence of God’s help, without which no one is able either to progress or to continue in doing good” (Responses on Behalf of Augustine 6 [A.D. 431]).
SECHNALL OF IRELAND
“Hear, all you who love God, the holy merits of Patrick the bishop, a man blessed in Christ; how, for his good deeds, he is likened unto the angels, and, for his perfect life, he is comparable to the apostles” (Hymn in Praise of St. Patrick 1 [A.D. 444]).
Testimony of the early church in the successors of the apostles! Verified by acts 2:42
THEOPHILUS OF ANTIOCH
“He who gave the mouth for speech and formed the ears for hearing and made eyes for seeing will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works [Rom. 2:7], he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things, which neither eye has seen nor ear has heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man [1 Cor. 2:9]. For the unbelievers and the contemptuous and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity . . . there will be wrath and indignation [Rom. 2:8]” (To Autolycus 1:14 [A.D. 181]).
HIPPOLYTUS
“Standing before [Christ’s] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: ‘Just is your judgment,’ and the justice of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment” (Against the Greeks 3 [A.D. 212]).
CYPRIAN OF CARTHAGE
“The Lord denounces [Christian evildoers], and says, ‘Many shall say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name, and in your name have cast out devils, and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you who work iniquity’ [Matt. 7:21–23]. There is need of righteousness, that one may deserve well of God the Judge; we must obey his precepts and warnings, that our merits may receive their reward” (The Unity of the Catholic Church 15, 1st ed. [A.D. 251]).
“[Y]ou who are a matron rich and wealthy, anoint not your eyes with the antimony of the devil, but with the collyrium of Christ, so that you may at last come to see God, when you have merited before God both by your works and by your manner of living” (Works and Almsgivings 14 [A.D. 253]).
LACTANTIUS
“Let every one train himself to righteousness, mold himself to self-restraint, prepare himself for the contest, equip himself for virtue . . . [and] in his uprightness acknowledge the true and only God, may cast away pleasures, by the attractions of which the lofty soul is depressed to the earth, may hold fast innocence, may be of service to as many as possible, may gain for himself incorruptible treasures by good works, that he may be able, with God for his judge, to gain for the merits of his virtue either the crown of faith, or the reward of immortality” (Epitome of the Divine Institutes 73 [A.D. 317]).
CYRIL OF JERUSALEM
“The root of every good work is the hope of the resurrection, for the expectation of a reward nerves the soul to good work. Every laborer is prepared to endure the toils if he looks forward to the reward of these toils” (Catechetical Lectures 18:1 [A.D. 350]).
JEROME
“It is our task, according to our different virtues, to prepare for ourselves different rewards. . . . If we were all going to be equal in heaven it would be useless for us to humble ourselves here in order to have a greater place there. . . . Why should virgins persevere? Why should widows toil? Why should married women be content? Let us all sin, and after we repent we shall be the same as the apostles are!” (Against Jovinian 2:32 [A.D. 393]).
AUGUSTINE
“We are commanded to live righteously, and the reward is set before us of our meriting to live happily in eternity. But who is able to live righteously and do good works unless he has been justified by faith?” (Various Questions to Simplician 1:2:21 [A.D. 396]).
“He bestowed forgiveness; the crown he will pay out. Of forgiveness he is the donor; of the crown, he is the debtor. Why debtor? Did he receive something? . . . The Lord made himself a debtor not by receiving something but by promising something. One does not say to him, ‘Pay for what you received,’ but ‘Pay what you promised’” (Explanations of the Psalms 83:16 [A.D. 405]).
“What merits of his own has the saved to boast of when, if he were dealt with according to his merits, he would be nothing if not damned? Have the just then no merits at all? Of course they do, for they are the just. But they had no merits by which they were made just” (Letters 194:3:6 [A.D. 412]).
“What merit, then, does a man have before grace, by which he might receive grace, when our every good merit is produced in us only by grace and when God, crowning our merits, crowns nothing else but his own gifts to us?” (ibid., 194:5:19).
PROSPER OF AQUITAINE
“Indeed, a man who has been justified, that is, who from impious has been made pious, since he had no antecedent good merit, receives a gift, by which gift he may also acquire merit. Thus, what was begun in him by Christ’s grace can also be augmented by the industry of his free choice, but never in the absence of God’s help, without which no one is able either to progress or to continue in doing good” (Responses on Behalf of Augustine 6 [A.D. 431]).
SECHNALL OF IRELAND
“Hear, all you who love God, the holy merits of Patrick the bishop, a man blessed in Christ; how, for his good deeds, he is likened unto the angels, and, for his perfect life, he is comparable to the apostles” (Hymn in Praise of St. Patrick 1 [A.D. 444]).
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Interestingly, the phrase "Jesus is God" is not in the Bible. Yet, there are many verses that do "imply" that "Jesus is God" but it would be more appropriate to say "Jesus was God in the flesh." In my opinion, this verse says it all without using "Jesus is God"....
"Jhn 8:58...Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
No other person can claim to be the "I am" as it implies that Jesus played a role in the creation of the universe and the creation of Adam and Eve.
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Ok,I confess,I have NOT read this whole thread so I'm just thinking out loud.
IMO EVERYTHING outside the word of God is heresy.
The scriptures teach that within its pages are the "DOCTRINES OF GOD AND OF CHRIST".
2 John 1:19 states that if we transgress or do not hold the doctrines of God and Christ we have no part with him.
We also have to divide out personal doctrine when we study such as 2 Tim.3:10, Paul is telling Timothy that he knows his ( Paul's) doctrine.
We must walk in the doctrines of God straight from the word, NOT what man interprets it to being said. JESUS came to do the FATHERS WILL and share his teachings on what he expects from mankind and what the rewards will be for following.
John 7:15-24,we are not to judge on appearance but judge according to righteous judgement. Today ppl want it to feel right,look good to others so it is acceptable. The WOG however is a 2 edged sword,it is SUPPOSED to cut.
The gift of salvation has been bought and paid for by the blood and life of the Son,the only condition for receiving is believing. However the walk or following is full of conditions in the contract btwn man and God.
We ARE promised eternal life IF.....
We ARE promised blessings IF.......
We ARE promised assurances If......
The hymn Standing on the Promises of God speaks to this, that he is NOT SLACK concerning his promises to us 2 Peter 3:9 for the simple fact he is NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH.
Examine your doctrine,your church's teachings, your corporate leaning,........everything to get that "yes I hold to the doctrine of God that is solid".
For many are deceived and led astray and will awaken to find themselves CUT OFF from the vine declaring" Lord......Lord....."
IMO EVERYTHING outside the word of God is heresy.
The scriptures teach that within its pages are the "DOCTRINES OF GOD AND OF CHRIST".
2 John 1:19 states that if we transgress or do not hold the doctrines of God and Christ we have no part with him.
We also have to divide out personal doctrine when we study such as 2 Tim.3:10, Paul is telling Timothy that he knows his ( Paul's) doctrine.
We must walk in the doctrines of God straight from the word, NOT what man interprets it to being said. JESUS came to do the FATHERS WILL and share his teachings on what he expects from mankind and what the rewards will be for following.
John 7:15-24,we are not to judge on appearance but judge according to righteous judgement. Today ppl want it to feel right,look good to others so it is acceptable. The WOG however is a 2 edged sword,it is SUPPOSED to cut.
The gift of salvation has been bought and paid for by the blood and life of the Son,the only condition for receiving is believing. However the walk or following is full of conditions in the contract btwn man and God.
We ARE promised eternal life IF.....
We ARE promised blessings IF.......
We ARE promised assurances If......
The hymn Standing on the Promises of God speaks to this, that he is NOT SLACK concerning his promises to us 2 Peter 3:9 for the simple fact he is NOT WILLING THAT ANY SHOULD PERISH.
Examine your doctrine,your church's teachings, your corporate leaning,........everything to get that "yes I hold to the doctrine of God that is solid".
For many are deceived and led astray and will awaken to find themselves CUT OFF from the vine declaring" Lord......Lord....."
is the word of God limited to scripture?
Psalm 19:1
The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Testimony of the early church in the successors of the apostles! Verified by acts 2:42
Acts 1:8 whitenesses of Christ with the power of the Holy Spirit!
We must hear the church! Matt 18:17
Matt 28:19
When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.
The doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is the only source of authority”
Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.
Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.
Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.
Denys the authority other than the “Bible alone! Including
Divine authority
Apostolic authority
angelic authority
Civil authority
Parental authority
Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.
Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.
Provides no authority to interpret scripture.
Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”
Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.
The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.
Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15
When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.
There is no list of scripture in scripture!
How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?
The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!
The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!
Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!
The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!
Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…
Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)
Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.
Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!
Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ
1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?
Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?
Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?
The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!
The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16
Scripture challenge!
Show me from or in “the Bible alone”?
1) a list (not contents) of the Ten Commandments.
2) what things is Lk 1:49 referring to.
3) what Christ commanded his apostles in Matt 28:20
4) a list of scripture (books chapters) in scripture?
Not in Bible not important
Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture, God sent an apostle to teach him!
Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John in the wilderness, a book did not fall out of the sky!
Jn 21:25 many more things than those in scripture!
2 Jn 1:12 the apostle in person makes their joy complete not scripture!
Essential doctrine:
Some doctrines are necessary and some are not is error, it is unlawful and forbidden to reject a truth revealed by God, who can neither deceive or be deceived.
Examples of oral tradition! (Teaching)
Peter speaks at Pentecost acts 2
Paul speaks at Athens acts
Even Christ teaching the divine revelation to His apostles in person.
WHEN???
When did it become divine revelation?
When did it become the inspired word of God?
When it was Spoken by Christ to His apostles?
When it was taught by the apostles?
When it was Written down decades latter?
When it was canonized by the supreme Roman pontiff in 381?
When did it become the inspired word of God?
If only when written down (Bible alone) then when it was spoken it should have been rejected as mere human tradition or the tradition of men, and therefore they would not possess the truths revealed by God and could not write scripture!
If you believe the false doctrine of the “Bible alone is the only authority” then you must reject the authority of Christ and His apostles!
It is an error to believe that the office or authority of the apostles ended with the apostle John and public revelation, revelation was complete with the apostle John but the teaching authority or office of the apostles must continue till the return of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:19-20 I am with you (the apostles) unto the end of the world.
Tongues of fire at Pentecost represent the light of divine Truth and the fire of divine Love!
The apostles possessed the Authority of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit in their persons!
Questions about the doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is our only authority”?
How can we know what is scripture?
How can we know what is not scripture?
How can we safeguard and protect scripture from errors?
Who has authority to teach scripture without error?
Where does scripture say: “the Bible alone”?
Why does scripture support tradition? The teaching authority of the apostles?
Who has authority to Authentically interpret scripture?
Where does it say the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”?
Why does scripture teach the authority of Christ in His church in the persons of the apostles?
AKA The Apostolic Tradition (teaching)
Deny’s the divine tradition: Christ teaching the apostles in person.
Deny’s the power of the Holy Spirit: to guide the apostles into all truth, Jn 16:13 and to governing the church.
Deny’s the apostolic tradition:
Authority to define scripture:
Authority to interpret scripture:
Authority to teach the entire divine revelation.
Denys the authority other than the “Bible alone! Including
Divine authority
Apostolic authority
angelic authority
Civil authority
Parental authority
Restricts the divine revelation and the word of God to scripture alone.
Provides no authority to know what is scripture.
Provides no authority to know what is not scripture.
Provides no authority to safeguard and protect scripture from errors.
Provides no authority to teach scripture without error.
Provides no authority to interpret scripture.
Reasons to oppose the doctrine of the “Bible alone”
Blind or illiterate and cannot read scripture. (Most people before the 20th century were illiterate)
Rare & Expensive (even after the printing press)
Faith comets by hearing not reading.
The Bible alone does not teach the doctrine of the “Bible alone”.
Biblical reference to authority other than the Bible alone.
Matt 16:18-19
Matt 18:18
Matt 28:18-20
Matt 18:17
Jn 20:21-23
Acts 2:42
Acts 8:31
1 Tim 3:15
When God called abram, Moses, the prophets, John the Baptist, and apostles it was not by the “Bible alone” Lk 3:2 the word of God came to John in the wilderness… a book did not fall out of the sky.
There is no list of scripture in scripture!
How does a person know what books, chapters, and verses are scripture and which ones are not?
The word of God is not limited to the “Bible alone”!
The word of God came to Abraham, to Moses, the prophets, and to John the Baptist in the wilderness (Lk3:2) but it did not come by the Bible, or the “Bible alone” not by any book, chapter, or verse!
Scripture all scripture is inspired, all the books and chapters of the canonical scripture authorized by Christ and His church!
The teaching authority of the apostles is the God breathed word of God!
Jn 20:23 He breathed on them (the apostles) and said receive the Holy Spirit…
Lk 10:16 he who hears you (the apostles) hears me. (Hears the word of God)
Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, I send you.
Acts 2:42 the doctrine of the apostles is the word of God!
Matt 28:18-20
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
1 cor 11:23 For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, that the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread:
1 Jn 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ
1 Jn 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
(The apostles received the word of God and handed it down to us, partly in the scripture)
2 Thessalonians 2:15
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
All scripture is inspired! 2 Tim 3:16
(Not only 66 books with missing chapters)
2 John 1:12
Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.
Did the apostle John possess the truth? Or only when He wrote it down did it become the truth?
Is what He taught only mere human tradition of men? But what He wrote was the inspired word?
Why is there joy complete in the person of the apostle?
The doctrine of the “Bible alone”
or that the church believes by the “Bible alone” is a heresy!
The truth is revealed by God thru Christ and taught by His church with the unity of the spirit and obedience of faith! Jude 1:3 Matt 28:19
One shepherd & on flock!
Jn 10:16
Scripture challenge!
Show me from or in “the Bible alone”?
1) a list (not contents) of the Ten Commandments.
2) what things is Lk 1:49 referring to.
3) what Christ commanded his apostles in Matt 28:20
4) a list of scripture (books chapters) in scripture?
Not in Bible not important
Acts 8 the eunuch had scripture, God sent an apostle to teach him!
Lk 3:2 the word of God came unto John in the wilderness, a book did not fall out of the sky!
Jn 21:25 many more things than those in scripture!
2 Jn 1:12 the apostle in person makes their joy complete not scripture!
Essential doctrine:
Some doctrines are necessary and some are not is error, it is unlawful and forbidden to reject a truth revealed by God, who can neither deceive or be deceived.
Examples of oral tradition! (Teaching)
Peter speaks at Pentecost acts 2
Paul speaks at Athens acts
Even Christ teaching the divine revelation to His apostles in person.
WHEN???
When did it become divine revelation?
When did it become the inspired word of God?
When it was Spoken by Christ to His apostles?
When it was taught by the apostles?
When it was Written down decades latter?
When it was canonized by the supreme Roman pontiff in 381?
When did it become the inspired word of God?
If only when written down (Bible alone) then when it was spoken it should have been rejected as mere human tradition or the tradition of men, and therefore they would not possess the truths revealed by God and could not write scripture!
If you believe the false doctrine of the “Bible alone is the only authority” then you must reject the authority of Christ and His apostles!
It is an error to believe that the office or authority of the apostles ended with the apostle John and public revelation, revelation was complete with the apostle John but the teaching authority or office of the apostles must continue till the return of Jesus Christ! Matt 28:19-20 I am with you (the apostles) unto the end of the world.
Tongues of fire at Pentecost represent the light of divine Truth and the fire of divine Love!
The apostles possessed the Authority of Jesus Christ and the power of the Holy Spirit in their persons!
Questions about the doctrine of the “Bible alone” or the “Bible is our only authority”?
How can we know what is scripture?
How can we know what is not scripture?
How can we safeguard and protect scripture from errors?
Who has authority to teach scripture without error?
Where does scripture say: “the Bible alone”?
Why does scripture support tradition? The teaching authority of the apostles?
Who has authority to Authentically interpret scripture?
Where does it say the word of God is limited to the “Bible alone”?
Why does scripture teach the authority of Christ in His church in the persons of the apostles?
AKA The Apostolic Tradition (teaching)
No such thing a “essential doctrine”!
Essential doctrine:
Some doctrines are necessary and some are not is an error,
it is unlawful and forbidden to reject a truth revealed by God, who can neither deceive or be deceived.
or to believe heresy!
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
He said CORRECT DOCTRINE . That would exclude the CC by default my friend .
Its why i keep trying to tell ya .
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Great post! Sola scriptura!
Jesus is the truth!
Jn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
To know the truth it is required to know Jesus Christ!
The truth is not some thing but somebody! Jesus Christ!
The church is an extension of Christ!
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema
Extends to the truth and the church
Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Jn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Jn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
To know the truth it is required to know Jesus Christ!
The truth is not some thing but somebody! Jesus Christ!
The church is an extension of Christ!
Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles!
Even His judging!
Matt 19:28
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Matt 18:17 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 acts 9:4 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
Fundamentalism drives a wedge between Christ and his church, separates Christ from His kingdom, and the authority of Christ from the new covenant!
1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema
Extends to the truth and the church
Cos Christ is the truth and His church teaches the truth without error! Jn 14:6 matt 28:19 matt 18:17 1 Tim 3:15 Jn 29:21-23 Jn 16:13
Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
John 17:18
As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Fundamentally. We seek deeper understanding of what's always been believed. The line that's crossed is when a deeper understanding of what's always been believed requires belief in something that never was believed or requires that something that always was believed no longer be believed.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I view this as a contradiction. If some doctrines are necessary, then some doctrines are "essential doctrines."
But if your faith requires that the faith of another be wrong, that requirement will be expressed in every statement of faith you make. An example, adding the word ' 'finished 'to expressions of your faith. The 'finished' work of Christ. That word is added because your faith requires that the doctrine of the Catholic Church be wrong. The word is added because it stands as a rebuttal of the error that your faith requires.
explain
Psalm 19:1
The heavens declare the glory ofGod; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
Lk 3:2
Did a book fall from the sky?
acts 1:8 & 2 Jn 1:12
Personal witnesses
All truths revealed by God in Christ and taught by his church must be believed!
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