HERESY?
- Thread starter GodsGrace
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
You wrote "What we are seeing today is a massive SATANIC CAMPAIGN to undermine Gospel truth and Bible truth."
You will see this on all "Christian" forums, "Christian" book stores, and "Christian" radio and TV broadcasts. Not to mention many "Christian" churches across the world."
Yeah, Satan is conducting a massive campaign to undermine Gospel truth and Bible truth -- not! Do you seriously think that Satan is at work in Christian forums, bookstores, and media broadcasts? So, the Body of Christ is deceived by the devil, but you will give us the pure truth? Puleeze!!!
Did I say I will give you the pure truth, or did I direct you to the Word of God, the Sword of the Spirit?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Point folks right to that bible . Never wavering once . The Word of GOD , the inspired beauty of TRUTH is found in the lovely pages
of the holy scriptures , in all sound biblical doctrine by which one shall grow wise unto salvation through faith in Christ .
FLOOD the place with all biblical reminders . We have far too many men who are flooding churches and places
with their own doctrine which is no good at all . WE must counter it with biblical truth .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Satan has flooded into many churches , many places , just cause it calls itself christain dont make it christain .
Satan has too many men and women all over christedom . WE must do battle using that bible , by the power of the Spirit .
Marvel not either , satan can appear as an angel of light so its no big thing that his ministirs can be all over the churches .
We must stay glued in our bible and be learning and growing wise in the things of our Lord . Testing all against sound biblical doctrine .
Jim B,
Scripture states that the very people that believe can be deceived:
1 Timothy 4:1
1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons,
I agree with @Enoch111 ...
The Body of Christ CAN be deceived...
We have persons on this very site that claim to be Christian but do not believe that
Jesus is God and do not believe in the Trinity.
And where did the other poster say he was going to give you the truth?
You shouldn't add to what persons state.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Isaiah 9:6 and the Trinity
“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.” (Isaiah 9:6)
Jesus was miraculosly born,
Luk 2:11...for to you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
He is called "the son of God"
Mat 14:33...And those in the boat worshiped him, saying, "Truly you are the Son of God."
He is the "ruler of His people as the government shall be upon his shoulder"
Mat 2:6...'And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel.'"
His name is not "IT"; his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor
Jhn 14:26...But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
He is called "mighty God"
Rev 1:8..."I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty." says the Lord God, who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty,
He is our "Everlasting Father"
Isa 57:15...For thus says the high and lofty One who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: "I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite.
He is our "Prince of Peace"
Eph 2:14...For he is our peace, who has made us both one, and has broken down the dividing wall of hostility,
Amen! And Plenty More Plain And Clear Passages ALL Over The Bible!:
"Complete Case" For JESUS Is Almighty God!
Jim B
Well-Known Member
You wrote that Satan is at work in Christian forums, bookstores, and media broadcasts. So, the Body of Christ is deceived by the devil, but you will give us the pure truth? The Bible is preached and discussed in Christian forums, bookstores, and media broadcasts. You are directing Christians away from these sources of God's Word to -- what? Your own personal doctrine and implied judgement of other believers for being so naive or stupid.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Some Bibles (incorrectly) chop up Scripture into chapters and verses, thereby distorting the meaning. Here is what Paul wrote to Timothy: "Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings, influenced by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared. They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For every creation of God is good and no food is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving. For it is sanctified by God’s word and by prayer." 1 Timothy 4:1-5
If you read the last sentence you will see that you are distorting what Paul wrote.
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Did you know that the Bible actually says "There is no God"? It's in Psalm 14:1b. It is very easy to take something out of context, chopping up Scripture to have it say what you want it to say.
Paul wrote Timothy about prohibiting marriage and abstinence from food.
Paul wrote Timothy about prohibiting marriage and abstinence from food.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
I totally agree with you on this...but this phenomenon also has its benefits too. What I mean by that is that, at least for myself, it sends me back to God's Word to determine if it is properly written in books, heard on radio or TV and especially these forums or even when my own pastor says something that I disagree with.
I have said this before, the true church of Christ in scripture is now barely recognizable.
But can we be deceived? It seems so because there are a lot of verses in the Bible that warns us about that very thing because there are so many different ways to be deceived today....
2Th 2:3...Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition,
2Th 3:2...and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men; for not all have faith. 3)But the Lord is faithful; he will strengthen you and guard you from evil.
2Co 11:3...But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
2Th 3:2...and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men; for not all have faith. 3)But the Lord is faithful; he will strengthen you and guard you from evil.
2Co 11:3...But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ.
What your suggesting is they are departing from their faith, here I changed it from 'the' to 'their', to make it clearer.
Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from their faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons
Those who depart the faith proves the faith was not theirs, not gifted to them by God.
That word 'THE' is important, as it's referring to THE Christian faith, which was not theirs, which is true as they had no faith
So then you believe that saved people lose their salvation?
OzSpen
Well-Known Member
- Mar 30, 2015
- 3,728
- 795
- 113
- Faith
- Christian
- Country
- Australia
GodsGrace,
You've started an excellent topic.
For the Christian who takes the Bible seriously, heresy is based on the Greek noun, hairesis. The Bauer, Arndt and Gingrich Lexicon gives the foundational meaning as “sect, party, school” (BAG, 1957, p. 23).
It was used to describe the “party of the Sadducees” in Acts 5:17; the Pharisees in Acts 26:5 were described as “the strictest sect of our religion.” In the secular literature of the first century, it meant “heretical sect.”
In a later sense they were called “a dissension, a faction” (1 Cor 11:19; Gal 5:20). They also were called an “opinion, dogma . . . a way of thinking” (2 Pet 2:1).
Applications
To sum up: A heresy in today’s understanding is a sect whose way of thinking is dogma that promotes theology contrary to biblical Christianity – an heretical sect.
An example would be the Jehovah’s Witnesses today who do not believe Jesus is God and they reject human beings as having an immortal soul.
From a Christian perspective, Islam is heretical as it does not promote the Trinitarian God. Islam rejects Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection.
I would be interested to consider whether you regard the "prosperity gospel" as being heretical. What about Mormonism?
Oz
Works consulted
Arndt, William F. and F. Wilbur Gingrich, tr. & adapt. of Walter Bauer’s Griechisch-Deutsches Worterbuch zu den Schriften des Neuen Testaments und der übrigen urchristlichen Literatur, 4th and aug edn 1957. Chicago: The University of Chicago Press (limited edn licensed to Zondervan Publishing House for sale only in the United States of America).
I understand what you're saying...but I do believe it goes beyond what you say above.
The dividing of chapters and verses has nothing to do with understanding scripture.
Paul is telling Timothy that in the end times some will DESERT THE FAITH.
The faith teaches a lot...not only marriage and food.
But, interestingly, our current society does believe that marriage is not necessary and we are told that many foods are not good for us.
But to get back to topic...
Verse 6 tells Timothy that Timothy will be nourished by good teachings and the message of faith if he follows them.
He is told not to argue over GODLESS ideas. Timothy is told to live a Godly life, in his love, his faith, and his purity.
Also check out 1 Timothy 6:3-4
3If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness,
4he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions,
2 Timothy 4:3
3For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
2 Peter 2:1
1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.
Incorrect doctrine was already entering the church when the letters and gospels were being written and circulated.
As it true today...
In later times some will depart from the faith...
In later times some will depart from their faith...
Same difference.
If someone departs from something...
It means they had it to begin with....
and they left it behind.
Do I think some could abandon their faith and become lost?
Yes...this is what scripture teaches.
Precious friend, Scripture Also States that believers can Be "Approved Unto
God," (2 Timothy 2:15) thus, they do not have "to be deceived." ie:
God's Bible "study" Rules!
God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels!
"Distinctions" In God's TWO Different Programs = prophecy vs MYSTERY!
Or, they could just ignore "Approval Unto God," and "be deceived," Correct?
GRACE And Peace...
Hi Oz,
Nice to see you here -
Hope you're doing well.
I understand a heresy to be any teaching that is not in keeping with orthodox Christianity (not the Eastern Orthodox religion).
The problem is that we all believe to have the truth.
We Protestants claim that we use the bible as our authority...
but then how come we have such diverse beliefs?!
I agree...JWs teach heretical doctrine.
Ditto for Islam.
I understand Mormonism is heretical but I just don't know too much about it and I'm sure you do.
I'd say the prosperity gospel is heretical too...
It was unheard of till very recently.
I believe Augustine had heretical teachings and he was a Catholic that was very respected because he was blessed with Charisma and the ability to win controversies. He changed doctrine in the CC. Pelagius was blamed for heresy, when it was Augustine that was teaching heresy.
What do you think about the idea that all beliefs that are different from the early church can be considered heresy?
(up to 325AD or thereabouts).
2 Timothy 2:15
15Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.
16But avoid worldly and empty chatter, for it will lead to further ungodliness,
17and their talk will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus,
18men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some.
I'm not sure it's the ignoring of the APPROVAL UNTO GOD.
I see the problem being that we all seem to understand scripture differently.
Some time ago I had a thread on the idea that maybe we needed a Protestant Pope!
I was kidding of course,,,but HOW could we all come to the same beliefs...? We cannot as I see the problem.
How can we be sure we're handling the word of truth correctly?
I left in verse 18 because it mentions two persons that were in the church, OF THE FAITH, and that went astray from the truth by saying that the resurrection had already taken place. Some today believe we're in the 1,000 year reign, I can't think of the name of the heresy, I'm sure you know it.
Do you think that by reading the bible we could then not be deceived?
I'm thinking also of Acts 17:11 regarding the Bereans and how they tested everything against scripture (the O.T. prophecies).
Correct. Unless we are totally dependent on the Word of God and the Holy Spirit, and love nothing but the truth, Christians can be deceived. Even theologians, scholars, professors, and well-known personalities can lead Christians astray.
Similar threads
