HERESY?

[Cooper]

Cooper, I have never denied that Jesus is Lord.....but being my “Lord” does not make him my “God”.

Can you understand that Jesus never once said that he was God. Don’t you think that such an important thing would be clearly stated by God and his Son? There is not one.

I love my Lord Jesus, but with him, I love “Our Father”....the Creator and God that we hold in common.

It does not discredit Jesus to see him as the Bible portrays him....he is “the Son of God” who is dearly loved by his Father. I can love them both, but I worship only one of them.

I understand what you are saying and I believe it to be blasphemous. There is only ONE GOD and as you say it would be wrong to worship two Gods.

This is why I need to bring to your attention Yahweh on earth. So tell me, Who are the two that inhabit eternity?

For thus says the high and lofty One who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also who is of a contrite and humble spirit.... (Isa 57:15)
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[Aunty Jane]

I understand what you are saying and I believe it to be blasphemous. There is only ONE GOD and as you say it would be wrong to worship two Gods.

The trinity is blasphemous. You are breaking the first Commandment by placing another god before the Father who is Yahweh.....who is the God and Father of Jesus Christ.

This is why I need to bring to your attention Yahweh on earth. So tell me, Who are the two that inhabit eternity?

What two gods who inhabit eternity? Yahweh has never been on Earth. He is the Creator of the Universe, how could he possibly take on human form and walk the earth? He sent Jesus because Yahweh is an immortal God who cannot die.

For thus says the high and lofty One who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also who is of a contrite and humble spirit.... (Isa 57:15)
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What do you believe that this snipped verse is saying?

From the ESV...in context Isaiah 57:14-16....
“And it shall be said, “Build up, build up, prepare the way, remove every obstruction from my people's way.” For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite. For I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry; for the spirit would grow faint before me, and the breath of life that I made.”

Do you never look at the context of the scriptures you post? Do you see that it isn’t saying what you think it is....

 

[Cooper]

From the ESV...in context Isaiah 57:14-16....
“And it shall be said, “Build up, build up, prepare the way, remove every obstruction from my people's way.” For thus says the One who is high and lifted up, who inhabits eternity, whose name is Holy: “I dwell in the high and holy place, and also with him who is of a contrite and lowly spirit, to revive the spirit of the lowly, and to revive the heart of the contrite. For I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry; for the spirit would grow faint before me, and the breath of life that I made.”

There are two persons in the passage you quoted, and one of them is Jesus, but you are blind to them.

So now, tell me how many persons are here:
Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying, “Where is he who brought them up out of the (Red) sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who put his Holy Spirit among them?” (Isa 63:11)

Answer: there are three persons:
1) He who brought them up out of the sea. [Father]
2) He who put the Holy Spirit among them. [Jesus]
3) The Holy Spirit himself.
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[bbyrd009]

if we are gonna use english titles Jesus might at least be “king?”

 

[Cooper]

if we are gonna use english titles Jesus might at least be “king?”

King of King's and Lord of Lords. Correct!
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[Aunty Jane]

There are two persons in the passage you quoted, but you are blind to them.

So now, tell me how many persons there are here:
Then he remembered the days of old, Moses and his people, saying, “Where is he who brought them up out of the (Red) sea with the shepherd of his flock? Where is he who put his Holy Spirit among them?” (Isa 63:11)

Answer: there are three persons:
1) He who brought them up out of the sea. [Father]
2) He who put the Holy Spirit among them. [Jesus]
3) The Holy Spirit.
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Nonsense...you are making scripture say what you want it to.
Isaiah never heard of a trinity and so what he wrote would never have included it.

Do you understand that out of the three “Abrahamic” faiths, only Christendom has adopted a triune god. Jesus was Jewish and he never once mentioned being an equal part of a three headed god. That would have meant that the Jews had valid grounds to execute him for blasphemy, but Jesus had to die as an innocent man.

The trinity was not introduced into “Christendom” until its birth in the 4th century. Roman Catholicism was responsible for what “Christianity” became......the “weeds” of Jesus parable. This “mother” church has many daughters, who all subscribe to the same erroneous doctrines...so deeply entrenched that no one questions their origins.

All I can do is ask you to do some research outside of the bubble you are in.
It is apparent that your mind is not open even to scripture, so nothing will alter your mindset.
I do not doubt your sincerity, but I think you are listening to the wrong teachers.

 

[Cooper]

Nonsense...you are making scripture say what you want it to.
Isaiah never heard of a trinity and so what he wrote would never have included it.

Do you understand that out of the three “Abrahamic” faiths, only Christendom has adopted a triune god. Jesus was Jewish and he never once mentioned being an equal part of a three headed god. That would have meant that the Jews had valid grounds to execute him for blasphemy, but Jesus had to die as an innocent man.

The trinity was not introduced into “Christendom” until its birth in the 4th century. Roman Catholicism was responsible for what “Christianity” became......the “weeds” of Jesus parable. This “mother” church has many daughters, who all subscribe to the same erroneous doctrines...so deeply entrenched that no one questions their origins.

All I can do is ask you to do some research outside of the bubble you are in.
It is apparent that your mind is not open even to scripture, so nothing will alter your mindset.
I do not doubt your sincerity, but I think you are listening to the wrong teachers.

That is total nonsense. The people in Christ's day were looking for the coming of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, as prophesied in Isaiah. The shepherds and wise men were watching and waiting. Even King Herod knew of his coming and when he heard, he commanded the slaughter of all newborn babies. Your opinion is wrong.

 

[Wrangler]

Why do you get so hung up on words?

The reason is clear.

You are treating the word "savior" as if it means "God"......it doesn't.

Trinitarians must create these false equivalents in order to support their doctrine. One example is to falsely assert ‘lord’ is a synonym for God. Jesus is NEVER called God Jesus but is called lord Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

That is total nonsense. The people in Christ's day were looking for the coming of the King of Kings

Interesting. In my devotional reading in Daniel ‘the king of kings’ was identified as Nebuchadnezzar.

If what AJ said is total nonsense, please identify that verse in Isaiah where he was calling God a trinity?

 

[Aunty Jane]

That is total nonsense. The people in Christ's day were looking for the coming of the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, as prophesied in Isaiah.

Yes, they were but their Messiah wasn’t going to be God. He was to be sent by God to establish God’s Kingdom on earth with the Messiah as King. But their expectation of him as a king, fell short when he did not come as a strong political leader who was going to liberate them from Rome. They rejected him because he wasn’t what they wanted...he did not fit what they expected.

The shepherds and wise men were watching and waiting.

Well, the shepherds were in expectation.....but the wise guys are another story. They didn’t show up till Jesus was a young child living in a house. (Matthew 2:9-12) They were not sent by God but were dupes used by the devil in a plot to have the Christ child killed. They were Babylonian astrologers, worshippers of false gods, but had the custom of bringing gifts to royal children. Satan used them to try and kill Jesus before he even had a chance to grow up. That star on your Christmas tree was actually from the devil.

Even King Herod knew of his coming and when he heard, he commanded the slaughter of all newborn babies. Your opinion is wrong.

Think about this for a moment.... if God was the one guiding those Babylonian astrologers to a wicked and jealous king, instead of to the house where the star eventually led them, then God was responsible for the deaths of all those infants.

Herod was going to make sure that no king ruled the Jews except those in his own dynasty. Satan knew his wicked disposition and used it by taking advantage of those who did not know the true God. The astrologers had no evil intent, shown by the fact that God told them to return home without getting back to Herod. They did not come to worship a god, but came to honour a new King.

I am surprised by the lack of basic Bible knowledge I see expressed by many here.....everything we need to know is in the Bible if we bother to read what it says rather than what others tell us that it says.

 

[Cassandra]

Yes, past tense. Christ is already here, directing his disciples in the greatest preaching campaign the world has ever seen. (Matthew 28:19-20) Giving instruction to his "faithful slave" to dispense to his fellow slaves "at the proper time", which means that we are given what we need to know, when we need to know it. (Matthew 24:45)
He has been 'present' since the outbreak of the Great War in 1914, which was the first part of the sign....unprecedented warfare...never before in history had all the nations been drawn into a global war....it was followed by food shortages and pestilences and great earthquakes, like a fingerprint in this "time of the end". All happening in these last days on an unprecedented scale, identifying it clearly to Christ's genuine disciples.

Its not a possibility...its a foregone conclusion. Its "when", not "if". Those who are judged as 'goats' on that day when Jesus comes as judge with his angelic executioners, the time for 'possibility' will have disappeared. The unprepared will perish and the unbelievers will not stand. (2 Peter 3:11-14)

Jesus told us to "keep on the watch" because we "do not know on what day our Lord is coming".
God is resting only from his creative works. He has been very busy sorting things out to the benefit of all the faithful as he deals with the rebellion that started in Eden.

Why do we need to worry about His coming if He is already here?:

 

[Wrangler]

Why do we need to worry about His coming if He is already here?:

The question of history aside, the question of who is and is not here remains debated, despite the fact that the trinity is not in the Bible.

I read a great book on point called When Jesus became God by Rubenstein. The heresy in the 4th century won due to politics; the Roman emperor killed, exiled and stole property of those who refused to violate the 1C, violate the Sh’ma or deny that the resurrected Christ said he was going to his God, who is our Father.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Why do we need to worry about His coming if He is already here?:

That is the point....Jesus "presence" (parousia) his return, begins when he is installed as king...the time pictured in Revelation 12:7-12 when his first act as King of God's Kingdom is to evict satan and his hordes from heaven, creating joy in heaven, but "woe" for the earth. The last days had to witness all the features of the "sign" that Jesus gave to show that he was ruling. If it was a visible event, then no sign would have been necessary.(Matthew 24:3-14)

Jesus' "coming" is an entirely separate event that takes place at the end of the last days when he brings the world to an accounting. He comes in the capacity of judge with his angels to mete out justice to the opposers of his incoming Kingdom which has only been ruling his disciples in a spiritual way since his installment as King......when he has cleansed the world of all unrighteousness and those who practice it, then he will have the whole world under his rulership, when he has put the devil and his hordes in a place where they cannot interfere with the operation of his Kingdom any longer. Imagine living in a world free of the devil and his wicked influence on people.

The devil's anger is being expressed right now as his time nears its end, and its all happening in an unprecedented way.....its "woe for the earth" because the devil is making us pay for not abandoning God and coming on side with him, as Adam and his wife did.

The devil has one aim....and that is to paint God and his worshippers in such a bad light that no one will want to have a bar of them (like he did with Jesus and his disciples).

For the unspiritually minded, science has killed off God and any need for him. These despise religion altogether and disparage all who subscribe to it as weak and gullible.

For others it will mean unfulfilled expectations like prayers unanswered, or miracles not forthcoming so that it will weaken the faith of those who were taught that God still does these things in our day. They ended with the apostolic period, but satan can mimic some things that look like miracles, creating false expectations and feelings of worthlessness when miracles do not happen. He specializes in discouragement, and the manipulation of people's emotions. But unless we know how he operates, he can easily deceive us, putting on his "angel of light" act to fool us into believing his lies. (2 Corinthian 11:14-15)

I am sure most "Christians" would be shocked at how far away the "Christianity" practiced today is from what Christ began in the first century. I don't believe that it can get much worse.....TBH.

 

[Cassandra]

But Matt 24 doesn't say that. where did you get 1914? Jesus is not here. Where does it say He would be? He will not be here until the 2nd coming . It will be audible and visual for the whole world, not the eye of understanding.

 

[Cooper]

Think about this for a moment.... if God was the one guiding those Babylonian astrologers to a wicked and jealous king, instead of to the house where the star eventually led them, then God was responsible for the deaths of all those infants.

O'dear. What a dreadful message you preach. Herod was the murderer, not God. This same God in Genesis 18 talking to Abraham. He came to bring Peace to an already evil world, but you reject him and worse still blame him for the deaths of the infants. Your god is not my God.

Only God can save us from our sins, and Jesus is the Saviour of the World. You will stand before Jesus one day. Be afraid of your eternal destiny.

Satan is busy on Christian message boards, seeking who he may devour. He attacks the God of Abraham who was worshipped by the heavenly angelic host 2021 years ago, and we should do likewise and worship Jesus in spirit and truth.
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[Aunty Jane]

But Matt 24 doesn't say that.

It does in Greek. The translation of Matthew 24:3 is in error if they translate "parousia" as "coming".

Strongs....
"And as He was sitting G2521 on the Mount G3735 of Olives G1636, the disciples G3101 came G4334 to Him privately G2596 G2398, saying G3004, “Tell G3004 us, when G4219 will these G3778 things G3778 happen G1510, and what G5101 will be the sign G4592 of Your coming G3952, and of the G4930 of the age G165?”
G3952 is "parousia" and it doesn't mean "coming", it means..."presence". If someone turned around and saw that you were 'present' at a function, is that the same as your coming to the function? Could you be present somewhere and people not be aware of when you arrived?

Philippians 2:12...
"So G5620 then G5620, my beloved G27, just G2531 as G2531 you have always G3842 obeyed G5219, not as in my presence G3952 only G3440, but now G3568 much G4183 more G3123 in my absence G666, work G2716 out G2716 your own G1438 salvation G4991 with fear G5401 and trembling G5156;"
The word "parousia" (G3952) here is contrasted with "apousia" or absence. So Christ can be "present" without anyone observing his arrival. He gave a "sign" so that his disciples would know that he was present....if it was a visible event what was the purpose of the composite sign?

where did you get 1914?

The prophesy in Daniel.....the very same prophesy that alerted the Jews to expect his first appearance in 29C.E.
Using the same calculations, we get 1914 for the time of his return. The first part of the sign was "nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom"....the Great War (the First World War) happened out of the blue, with no one expecting the outcome of what precipitated it. This conflict was like no other war ever fought in history....this was the first time the whole world was drawn into a war through the alliances of nations.
The Spanish flu followed shortly afterwards and food shortages as a result of the war saw widespread hunger. Great earthquakes have plagued the world since 1914....the love of the greater number has also grown cold......no one cares for their neighbor anymore, they just care about themselves. (2 Timothy 3:1-5) We believe that the sign is clearly in evidence.....but the prophesy doesn't tell us when the last days end...only when they begin.

Jesus is not here. Where does it say He would be? He will not be here until the 2nd coming . It will be audible and visual for the whole world, not the eye of understanding.

We believe he has been present since 1914, directing the preaching of God's Kingdom in all the world because it is a "witness to all the nations" before the "end" comes. (Matthew 24:14; Matthew 28:19-20)

 

[Aunty Jane]

O'dear. What a dreadful message you preach. Herod was the murderer, not God. This same God in Genesis 18 talking to Abraham, came to bring Peace to an already evil world, but you reject him and worse still blame him for the deaths of the infants. Your god is not my God.

Only God can save us from our sins, and Jesus is the Saviour of the World. You will stand before Jesus one day. Be afraid of your eternal destiny.

Satan is busy on Christian message boards, seeking who he may devour. He attacks the God of Abraham who was worshipped by the heavenly angelic host 2021 years ago, and we should do likewise and worship Jesus in spirit and truth.
.

You know what Cooper....you misread everything I write, so I'm gonna have to put you on ignore because, seriously what is the point of trying to tell you anything...

 

[Cooper]

You know what Cooper....you misread everything I write, so I'm gonna have to put you on ignore because, seriously what is the point of trying to tell you anything...

Then ensure that what you write is not open to misinterpretation. Though to be honest, I have a total dislike of anything at variance with scripture, especially anything or anyone who denies the presence of the Father in the Son, (One God). "I have my father in me," said Jesus, (we all do) so to deny it is plain stupid. So if you cannot cope with the Father in the Son, meaning God is with us, remember God is spirit, and here he is in the flesh, then my heart bleeds for you. So that way you will not have an audience except other like-minded souls who have been on my ignore list for a long time.
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[JohnPaul]

You know what Cooper....you misread everything I write, so I'm gonna have to put you on ignore because, seriously what is the point of trying to tell you anything...

That's the best thing you can do Aunty Jane, I already have.

 

[Enoch111]

seriously what is the point of trying to tell you anything.

What's the point of Jehovah's Witnesses coming on to a Christian forum when they reject all sound Christian doctrines? Surely there must be a JW forum somewhere.