Hellfire and brimstone has given way to eternal separation from God. - Why?

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GISMYS_7

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Little men's ideas and opinions do not change the eternal. living Word of God,===Jesus has more to say about the all to real eternal lake of fire than all others ==The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth” (Matthew 13:40-43).
 
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Lizbeth

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ay be known about God, if they are so willing.

Actually, it was the author of the gospel of John who said that Jesus said scripture cannot be broken. Did that author accurately record Jesus's actual words? Maybe. Did Jesus move his pen across the parchment? No. John's words are his own.


Good idea! Let's start by comparing these:

Matt. 8:5-13 and Luke 7:2-10?

Mark 6:8-9 and Matt. 10:10?

Mark 2:26 and 1 Samuel 21:1-6?

Matt. 8:5-13 and Luke 7:2-10?

Matt. 8:28 and Luke 8:27?

Mark 9:1-2 and Luke 9:28?

1 Samuel 31:4 and 2 Samuel 21:12?

1 Chronicles 2:13-15 and 1 Samuel 16:10-11?

2 Kings 8:26 and 2 Chronicles 22:2?

Matt. 1:6 and Luke 3:31?

Matt. 28:9 and John 20:17?
Why this attitude then? You know, when I bring scriptures that I want someone to look at, I bring the scriptures, not just the numbers where they may be found....?
 
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Ritajanice

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@St. SteVen said.

Bible-thumper is a mildly derogatory term for someone who is deemed overly zealous in his or her Christian faith, especially if the zeal is attended by a “preachy” attitude. The dictionary.com definition of Bible-thumper is “an evangelist or other person who quotes the Bible frequently, especially as a means of exhortation or rebuke.”

RJ asks..do you think some quote the Bible, yet are far from God in their hearts?

Speaking from my own experience.

After all we know God in our heart / spirit don’t we?

Short commentary.

A heart that is far from God has a warped view of reality (15:13,16-20) — When confronted by Samuel, Saul twice professes his faithful obedience to the Lord. The hardness of Saul's heart prevented him from viewing reality correctly and understanding the fullness of his failure.
 
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RedFan

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Why this attitude then? You know, when I bring scriptures that I want someone to look at, I bring the scriptures, not just the numbers where they may be found....?
OK, I will post links next time. What version do you favor? (I'm a NRSV guy myself.)
 
J

Johann

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St. SteVen said:
Your superiority complex is impressive.
Since when are your opinions the standard for truth?

Too bad there is no standard for interpretation.
You can make it say whatever you want and then declare your words as truth.

Scriptures are a gift, made to be shared—something that may be unfamiliar to you. ???
Jesus understood this,

Luke 10:26 NIV
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”

[

In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul states, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.” This is the only use in the Bible of the Greek word theopneustos, which means “God-breathed, inspired by God, due to the inspiration of God,” but other scriptural passages support the basic premise of Scripture being inspired by God.

The power of the breath of God in divine inspiration pervades Scripture. God breathed “the breath of life” into Adam (Genesis 2:7), and Jesus “breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit’” (John 20:22). In 2 Peter 1:21 we are told that “prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” Here we see the truths of Scripture described as coming directly from God, not from the will of the writers He used to record them.

Peter notes that Paul writes “with the wisdom that God gave him” and that failure to take heed to these messages is done at the peril of the readers (2 Peter 3:15–16). Scripture comes from the Holy Spirit, who gives it to us “in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words” (1 Corinthians 2:13). In fact, the Berean believers faithfully used the inspired Word of God to check Paul’s adherence to the Word as they “examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true” (Acts 17:11).

Faith is central to how anyone receives the validity or value of God’s inspired Word because “the man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14). The “spiritual man” is the one who has been given the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8–9) for the salvation of his soul. Hebrews 11:1 tells us, “Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.” There is a righteousness in the gospel revealed by God in the Scriptures, but our righteousness comes and is maintained by and through faith alone. “The righteous will live by faith” (Romans 1:17).

Although 2 Timothy 3:16 may be the only place in the Bible where the phrase “God-breathed” is used to describe the Word of God, Scripture is replete with similar claims. These are actually God’s words reminding us that His truth and love can be found there to guide us in all aspects of life. Perhaps James has the final word about the nature of Scripture (and many other things) when he proclaims, “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows” (James 1:17).

Surprisingly-from-

Human beings speak with their mouths as their breath moves across their vocal cords, causing the cords to vibrate and produce sounds that are formed into letters and words by our lips, tongues, and teeth. There is a breathing out that has to take place for speech, and understanding this reality helps us to understand Paul's point in today's passage. Scripture, he tells us, results from God's breathing out in speech. This is a rather clear way of saying that Scripture is the very speech of God. It is His Word.

The Greek word translated as "breathed out" in 2 Timothy 3:16 is theopneustos, and Scripture is the only thing described as such by the Apostles. Thus, Scripture has a unique character as the voice and words of the Lord. It uniquely serves as God's special revelation, as His inspired and revealed will for His people. Nothing else today is theopneustos, so we can point to nothing but Scripture as the Word of God.

When we speak of Scripture as theopneustos, we are pointing to its divine inspiration. The Word of God written is identical to God's speech. It is exactly what He intended us to have as the revelation of His will and how to please Him. At the same time, this does not take away from the Bible's human character. God breathed out His Word, but He did so through the instrumentality of His prophets and Apostles. So, for example, the book of Romans is Paul's word, bearing the Apostle's unique style and character. Nevertheless, it is also God's Word, given by Him. That our Lord used a man to give us the book of Romans does not in any way make it less than the very speech of God. And this applies to all books of Scripture.

Following 2 Timothy 3:16 and other passages, the Protestant Reformers affirmed verbal plenary inspiration. Verbal inspiration means that inspiration pertains to the very words themselves, not just the meaning that the words convey. If Jesus could appeal to the tense of a verb in order to settle a theological question ("I am the God of . . ."; Matt. 22:23–33), inspiration must apply to specific words and even their specific forms. Plenary inspiration means that all the words of Scripture are given by God, not just some of them. We cannot say that the Lord spoke only the words of Scripture that pertain to doctrine but not those that record history. No, God spoke it all, using the distinct style of each human author to give us His Word for all of life. Paul says all Scripture—everything received as canon—is God's Word, not just select portions of it (2 Tim. 3:16).

Coram Deo
The process of biblical inspiration is mysterious, for we do not know exactly how God moved the human authors of Scripture to give us His Word. Nevertheless, we know that Scripture is the Word of God, and so it can be trusted to give us nothing but the truth of God. When we want to know God's will for us, we must turn to Scripture, for it is there alone that we will find the Lord's guidance.

J.
 
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Taken

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Clerics ~

Names, Titles, Positions, Intents….

Preachers, Deacons, Pastors, Evangelist, Bishops, Popes, Ministers, Rabbis, Swamis, Doctors, Priests, Reverends, Nuns, Teachers, Pharisees, Sanhedrin’s, etc.
All have specific meanings, applicability, yet are somewhat used interchangeably or understood by the public at large to BE the same things.

Some have express formal education with Degrees, Certifications, Some have informal education with Certificates, Some have a long experience, Some have A Church, A Building specific, Some do not. Some travel, Some remain in their specific Building. Some are Accountable to a higher Degree Position, Some use electronics, air waves, radio, tv….

** EACH have A MESSAGE according to THE DOCTRINE they have personally CHOSEN to BELIEVE and SHARE…and do so SHARE VIA INVITATION….to anyone desiring to Hear “the” Doctrine “THEY” chose and believe.

** WHILE EACH has a SAME BAISIC common FACTOR…of “A BELIEF IN A HIGHER FORM of LIFE” greater than created and made; terrestrial manKIND, terrestrial animalKIND, celestial spiritKIND of beings…
** WHO, HOW, WHAT, WHEN, WHY, WHERE…Created and Made…and the FINAL INTENT of the Created and Made;
Becomes the DIVERSIONARY factor among manKIND

AND THUS….the Division shall continue UNTIL..the Creator and Maker Himself “separates the divided”….with or without HIM.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Lizbeth

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@St. SteVen said.

Too bad there is no standard for interpretation.
You can make it say whatever you want and then declare your words as truth.

Scriptures are a gift, made to be shared—something that may be unfamiliar to you. ???
Jesus understood this,

Luke 10:26 NIV
“What is written in the Law?” he replied. “How do you read it?”


RJ, asks, when members start telling us we’re in error, should we rather not check out what they say with the word?

I mean, they could be right, rather than take umbrage over what they say...not just talking about you Brother, I mean all of us in general.

I also think there is a way to tell someone they “ maybe” in error...what do you think?
Sister. On the other hand.......did Paul when he confronted Peter with his error, say to him, you "may be" in error, or was he up front and direct about it, calling a spade a spade? We need to have the courage of our convictions. The bible doesn't say we are fluff sharpening fluff, but iron sharpening iron. And how did Jesus confront the error of His day? Aren't we supposed to be like Him? We mustn't let fine-sounding words lead us astray and shut the truth down. The spirit of the world via political correctness has badly infiltrated the church which used to have a backbone, and is destroying it. Just saying.

Times when one needs to be gentle with individuals, but other times when we need to be swinging the sword of the Lord like we mean it when error is being taught and propagated, because it's a matter of life and death.
 
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RedFan

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In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul states, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.” This is the only use in the Bible of the Greek word theopneustos, which means “God-breathed, inspired by God, due to the inspiration of God,” but other scriptural passages support the basic premise of Scripture being inspired by God.
Is all Scripture is God-breathed because it says so? (That would be circular reasoning, don't you think?)
 

Lizbeth

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In 2 Timothy 3:16, Paul states, “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.” This is the only use in the Bible of the Greek word theopneustos, which means “God-breathed, inspired by God, due to the inspiration of God,” but other scriptural passages support the basic premise of Scripture being inspired by God.

The power of the breath of God in divine inspiration pervades Scripture. God breathed “the breath of life” into Adam (Genesis 2:7), and Jesus “breathed on them and said, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit’” (John 20:22). In 2 Peter 1:21 we are told that “prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” Here we see the truths of Scripture described as coming directly from God, not from the will of the writers He used to record them.

Peter notes that Paul writes “with the wisdom that God gave him” and that failure to take heed to these messages is done at the peril of the readers (2 Peter 3:15–16). Scripture comes from the Holy Spirit, who gives it to us “in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words” (1 Corinthians 2:13). In fact, the Berean believers faithfully used the inspired Word of God to check Paul’s adherence to the Word as they “examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true” (Acts 17:11).

Faith is central to how anyone receives the validity or value of God’s inspired Word because “the man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned” (1 Corinthians 2:14). The “spiritual man” is the one who has been given the gift of faith (Ephesians 2:8–9) for the salvation of his soul. Hebrews 11:1 tells us, “Faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.” There is a righteousness in the gospel revealed by God in the Scriptures, but our righteousness comes and is maintained by and through faith alone. “The righteous will live by faith” (Romans 1:17).

Although 2 Timothy 3:16 may be the only place in the Bible where the phrase “God-breathed” is used to describe the Word of God, Scripture is replete with similar claims. These are actually God’s words reminding us that His truth and love can be found there to guide us in all aspects of life. Perhaps James has the final word about the nature of Scripture (and many other things) when he proclaims, “Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows” (James 1:17).

Surprisingly-from-

Human beings speak with their mouths as their breath moves across their vocal cords, causing the cords to vibrate and produce sounds that are formed into letters and words by our lips, tongues, and teeth. There is a breathing out that has to take place for speech, and understanding this reality helps us to understand Paul's point in today's passage. Scripture, he tells us, results from God's breathing out in speech. This is a rather clear way of saying that Scripture is the very speech of God. It is His Word.

The Greek word translated as "breathed out" in 2 Timothy 3:16 is theopneustos, and Scripture is the only thing described as such by the Apostles. Thus, Scripture has a unique character as the voice and words of the Lord. It uniquely serves as God's special revelation, as His inspired and revealed will for His people. Nothing else today is theopneustos, so we can point to nothing but Scripture as the Word of God.

When we speak of Scripture as theopneustos, we are pointing to its divine inspiration. The Word of God written is identical to God's speech. It is exactly what He intended us to have as the revelation of His will and how to please Him. At the same time, this does not take away from the Bible's human character. God breathed out His Word, but He did so through the instrumentality of His prophets and Apostles. So, for example, the book of Romans is Paul's word, bearing the Apostle's unique style and character. Nevertheless, it is also God's Word, given by Him. That our Lord used a man to give us the book of Romans does not in any way make it less than the very speech of God. And this applies to all books of Scripture.

Following 2 Timothy 3:16 and other passages, the Protestant Reformers affirmed verbal plenary inspiration. Verbal inspiration means that inspiration pertains to the very words themselves, not just the meaning that the words convey. If Jesus could appeal to the tense of a verb in order to settle a theological question ("I am the God of . . ."; Matt. 22:23–33), inspiration must apply to specific words and even their specific forms. Plenary inspiration means that all the words of Scripture are given by God, not just some of them. We cannot say that the Lord spoke only the words of Scripture that pertain to doctrine but not those that record history. No, God spoke it all, using the distinct style of each human author to give us His Word for all of life. Paul says all Scripture—everything received as canon—is God's Word, not just select portions of it (2 Tim. 3:16).

Coram Deo
The process of biblical inspiration is mysterious, for we do not know exactly how God moved the human authors of Scripture to give us His Word. Nevertheless, we know that Scripture is the Word of God, and so it can be trusted to give us nothing but the truth of God. When we want to know God's will for us, we must turn to Scripture, for it is there alone that we will find the Lord's guidance.

J.
Amen. It means they are HIS words, not words of men.
 
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Johann

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Amen. It means they are HIS words, not words of men.
Amen and amen! Because these are His words, many find them offensive and seek to redefine God's Word to fit their own narrative. Let us remember 2 Timothy 4:3-4 (Lexham Bible): "For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths."

Keep up the good work, sister, wielding the two-edged sword of the Word!

Johann.
 
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Johann

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For those who have the Spirit of God, the Spirit witness the truth to our spirits.
There is no co-witnessing of the Spirit to bring to remembrance when the Bible is closed.

You are aware of this.

J.
 

St. SteVen

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God's word is the standard for truth....

We can test scripture against other scripture to verify them......
This seems contradictory.

If "God's word" (which you define as the Bible) is "the standard for truth".
Why would we need to "test scripture against other scripture to verify them"?
Shouldn't they stand alone if they are indeed the standard for truth?

I understand the importance of comparing scriptures, but your conclusions don't add up.

--- PARODY ---

Bible student #1: God's word is the standard for truth.
Bible student #2: Do you mean the Bible?
Bible student #1: Well, of course. What else would it be?
Bible student #2: Can the the standard for truth be verified?
Bible student #1: Yes. We can test scripture against other scripture to verify them.
Bible student #2: Why would you need to verify the standard for truth?
Bible student #1: The standard needs to be tested.
Bible student #2: The standard can't be absolute if it needs to be tested.
Bible student #1: God's word is the standard for truth.
Bible student #2: It sounds more like you are choosing your own interpretation.
Bible student #1: Scripture verifies scripture.
Bible student #2: Which one is the standard for truth?
Bible student #1: Which one? What do you mean?
Bible student #2: The scripture in question, or the one you are using to verify it?
Bible student #1: Both.
Bible student #2: What's the point of verifying then?
Bible student #1: To confirm the truth.
Bible student #2: You said, "God's word is the standard for truth."

[
 
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Taken

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Why this attitude then? You know, when I bring scriptures that I want someone to look at, I bring the scriptures, not just the numbers where they may be found....?

I speak what I believe.
I may MENTION my belief stems from Scripture…or post a reference to a Particular Passage….or quote a passage.

I have no obligation to Mention Scripture, post a Reference or QUOTE a passage….

UNTIL an other has themselves searched the Scriptures…or the other ASKS.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Lizbeth

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My point is that the text contains errors. Example: Matthew 27:9 mistakenly attributes the story of the purchase of the potters’ field to Jeremiah rather than Zechariah.

That's not Matthew's only slip-up. In Matt. 23:35 Matthew confuses two Zechariahs, the prophet Zechariah who was the son of Berechiah (Zech. 1:1) and another who was the son of Jehoiada (2 Chron. 24:20-22):

Therefore I send you prophets, sages, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town, so that upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar (Matt. 23:25 NRSV).

Clearly it was not Zechariah the prophet, son of Barachiah, who was killed in the court of the temple, but as 2 Chron. 24:20-22 plainly states, Zechariah the son of Jehoiada. Matthew was just mistaken. (Alternatively, I suppose we could conclude that Matthew accurately quoted Jesus’ words, and it was Jesus who was mistaken. That opens a different can of worms.)

Sometimes gospel authors disagreed as between themselves -- for example, disagreement on whether the Last Supper was a Passover meal as the Synoptics say (Mark 14:12, Mark 14:16-17, Matthew 26:17, Matthew 26:19-20, Luke 22:7–9, Luke 22:13-14), or was eaten the day before Passover as John says (John 13:1, John 18:28, John 19:14). BOTH CANNOT BE CORRECT!!!!

The way to handle this is (a) to concede that factual accuracy is not always found in the Scriptures, and (b) to read it for its message rather than for the trimmings of the story.
Have you checked or is there is any way to find out whether one or the other is the name of Zechariah's FOREfather? Passover does begin the day before so to speak.....at sunset. Could that explain what appears to be an error but might not be? Sometimes things appear to be errors simply due to our own ignorance of the facts.
 
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Ritajanice

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@Lizbeth said.

Sister. On the other hand.......did Paul when he confronted Peter with his error, say to him, you "may be" in error, or was he up front and direct about it, calling a spade a spade? We need to have the courage of our convictions. The bible doesn't say we are fluff sharpening fluff, but iron sharpening iron. And how did Jesus confront the error of His day? Aren't we supposed to be like Him? We mustn't let fine-sounding words lead us astray and shut the truth down. The spirit of the world via political correctness has badly infiltrated the church which used to have a backbone, and is destroying it. Just saying.


Only the Spirit can show us when we are in error...

Imo, there is a way to show one if they are in error, not by writing off everything they say, ..which I’ve seen some do on this thread.

With respect, I have noticed that you come across as “ all knowing “ whose to say you aren’t in error?

You seem to think that what you say is “ right”...and dismiss the opinions of others...everyone here is voicing an opinion on what they believe to be God’s truth.....

You .like everyone else is going by what you believe the word of God to be saying...not everyone agrees with you, ..God does not force, neither does he tell us to keep going over the same old ground in the same old manner, repeat after repeat...now, if I’m in error, please show me.
 

Taken

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Is all Scripture is God-breathed because it says so? (That would be circular reasoning, don't you think?)

* The speech…is the Principle of Gods word.
(Established to satisfy mans ears.)
* The writing….is the Standard of God word.
(Established to satisfy mans eyes.)
* The ability to decipher good outcome / bad outcome FROM following or rejecting the Principle and Standard ….
** IS the Lesson for manKind…

Matters not IF it is Scripture…Politics…household Principles and Standards….all of manKIND is curious, inquisitive, and experiences the outcome of their choices…
Called…A LESSON.

Circular reasoning? I suppose men do go in circles trying this and that…experiencing this lesson outcome and that lesson outcome…and choosing which they personally LIKE BEST and choose to hop on this or that path permanently “or not”.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Ritajanice

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@St. SteVen said

Why would we need to "test scripture against other scripture to verify them"?


RJ, says, I’ve never understood this either.

Why would I need to test loads of scripture, to know in my heart that I’m a child of God?

I was Born Again in my spirit, by the testifying of the Holy Spirit with my spirit that I’m Born Again/ Gods child.

Like I’ve explained many times, the Spirit speaks to us all differently, ways that we understand...only he can bring us to understanding his word....many disagree with me..no problem, I stand on what I believe God is witnessing to my spirit.
 
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Taken

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@RedFan ~
Johns own words?
Partially correct but Not fully correct.
Notice the conjoining AND

Revelation 1:
[1] The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
[2] Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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Ritajanice

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@Lizbeth said.

Aren't we supposed to be like Him


RJ says, yes we are, but , in his strength and in his timing.

Not by our own strength or by our own timing.
 
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