Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[robert derrick]

Oh, my goodness. No, the promise is that nothing can separate those of us in Christ Jesus from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus. LOL!


This makes no sense: "Not even sin can separate OSAS from their grace..." What??? "since she won't allow God to see them" What??? You're trying to personify "OSAS"? "She" won't allow God to see "them"... who is the "them" you are referring to here??? His promises??? My goodness.


Well, it is a great peace, for sure. A peace that passes all understanding, actually. Yes, it isn't up to me (or any of us who are in Christ) to keep the peace. We can certainly praise and thank the Lord for that.

Grace and peace to you, Robert.

I am only going by what your other OSAS believers have said:

They say God cannot see their sins, because the blood covers them from His sight.

They say they are forgiven of all sins past, present, and future at first being saved, and that though they will continue in sin, they have pre-forgiveness before commission.

You say the prodigal was received back and forgiven, before outward repentance, before repenting of his sins bodily, which means no need of repentance from dead works for salvation by faith alone.

Now, if I have it wrong, then let me know.

 

[Cassandra]

He never actually repented to the father. You say, "at the pig trough." Well, the father wasn't there when the son said this (to himself). The point of the parable is that the father never turned his back on the son, was going to forgive the son's sin against him, and was going to welcome the son back home no matter what. This is what the whole of Luke 15 (and the two parables immediately preceding this one) is about. Jesus tells these parables to the Pharisees, who were grumbling about Jesus receiving sinners and even eating with them.

Grace and peace to you.

that is what came back means . If you leave the Lord, you are welcomed back, but you have got to come back If he was going to forgive the son, no matter what,even if he didn't come, then God should forgive the whole world because all of us are like your little Joey in the corner.

 

[robert derrick]

He never actually repented to the father. You say, "at the pig trough." Well, the father wasn't there when the son said this (to himself). The point of the parable is that the father never turned his back on the son, was going to forgive the son's sin against him, and was going to welcome the son back home no matter what. This is what the whole of Luke 15 (and the two parables immediately preceding this one) is about. Jesus tells these parables to the Pharisees, who were grumbling about Jesus receiving sinners and even eating with them.

Grace and peace to you.

and was going to welcome the son back home no matter what.

Even if he did not come back?

The error of your doctrine is always the same. He was more than ready to receive him back, if he came back.

The teaching is if we become lost sheep in sins and trespasses, He will receive us back to Himself, if we repent and return to obeying Him, then none of our wickedness will be remembered.

Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live? (Ezek 18)

 

[PinSeeker]

I am only going by what your other OSAS believers have said...

Okay, yeah, don't do that. :) I would respectfully ask that, if you are going to have a conversation with me, only attribute to me what I have said. Or possibly what I have agreed with.

You say the prodigal was received back and forgiven, before outward repentance, before repenting of his sins bodily...

Yes, but the parable is not about his repentance or lack thereof.

...which means no need of repentance from dead works for salvation by faith alone.

Yeah, so in view of the previous answer above, no, it doesn't mean that. At all.

Now, if I have it wrong, then let me know.

See above. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Cassandra]

He never actually repented to the father. You say, "at the pig trough." Well, the father wasn't there when the son said this (to himself). The point of the parable is that the father never turned his back on the son, was going to forgive the son's sin against him, and was going to welcome the son back home no matter what. This is what the whole of Luke 15 (and the two parables immediately preceding this one) is about. Jesus tells these parables ~ surely you know ~ to the Pharisees, who were grumbling about Jesus receiving sinners and even eating with them; the Pharisees thought these "sinners" were unworthy. And in this parable, the older brother is representative of the Pharisees.

Grace and peace to you.

And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and his neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost. Sheep was what? Lost? Hmmm...

15:7 I say unto you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, [more] than over ninety and nine righteous persons, who need no repentance. A sinner that what ? Repents?

Luke 15:21 "1 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight: I am no more worthy to be called thy son." Sounds like repentance to me!!!!!!!

Luke 15: 32 But it was meet to make merry and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive [again]; and [was] lost, and is found. The son was what? Lost you say? So he was lost and when he came back and repented, he was found.

 

[PinSeeker]

that is what came back means . If you leave the Lord, you are welcomed back, but you have got to come back If he was going to forgive the son, no matter what,even if he didn't come, then God should forgive the whole world because all of us are like your little Joey in the corner.

In coming back, the father knew the son was repentant. But again, the parable is not about repentance or lack thereof. See above.

Who's Joey? Yeah, that was, um, somebody else.

Grace and peace.

 

[Cassandra]

Yes, it most certainly is. It is about repenting and coming home. you cannot say that it does not say that when it does.

 

[PinSeeker]

And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and his neighbors, saying unto them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost. Sheep was what? Lost? Hmmm...

15:7 I say unto you, that even so there shall be joy in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, [more] than over ninety and nine righteous persons, who need no repentance. A sinner that what ? Repents?

Luke 15:21 "1 And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight: I am no more worthy to be called thy son." Sounds like repentance to me!!!!!!!

Luke 15: 32 But it was meet to make merry and be glad: for this thy brother was dead, and is alive [again]; and [was] lost, and is found. The son was what? Lost you say? So he was lost and when he came back and repented, he was found.

The parable is NOT ABOUT REPENTANCE. Yes, the son repeats his prepared speech, but the father cuts him short before he finishes, showing that he has already forgiven him. Because of his love, despite his son's sins against him.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

Yes, it most certainly is. It is about repenting and coming home. you cannot say that it does not say that when it does.

No, again, Jesus tells these parables ~ all three of them in Luke 15 ~ to the Pharisees, because they were grumbling about Jesus receiving sinners and even eating with them; the Pharisees thought these "sinners" were unworthy. And in this parable, the older brother is representative of the Pharisees. It's really about the father and his great love... and not the son (or the older son).

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

True grace haters despise the true definition of the grace of GOD . Which brings salvation and TEACHES US
to deny SIN . A true grace hater dont want to admit to being a hearer and a doer of the glorious teachings of JESUS ..

 

[amigo de christo]

Ps . let no man woman or child heed calvin . Just thought i would remind folks about that as well .

 

[PinSeeker]

and was going to welcome the son back home no matter what. Even if he did not come back?

LOL! Now how could he welcome his son home if his son... did not... come... home...? :)

The teaching is if we become lost sheep in sins and trespasses, He will receive us back to Himself, if we repent and return to obeying Him, then none of our wickedness will be remembered.

So you're saying that we have to be "re-saved"... possibly over and over and over again, depending on how much more we sin... :) As I said, thanks be to God, such is not the case.

Grace and peace.

 

[PinSeeker]

Ps . let no man woman or child heed calvin . Just thought i would remind folks about that as well .

If John Calvin was right (and he was), then why should we not listen to him? I mean, ultimately, yes, Calvin was just a man. But still... He was right. For the most part, anyway.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[amigo de christo]

If John Calvin was right (and he was), then why should we not listen to him? I mean, ultimately, yes, Calvin was just a man. But still... He was right. For the most part, anyway.

Grace and peace to you.

Hear YE , HEAR YE , to all peoples , all tongues , all tribes and all nations of the known world
today i make a declaration unto all in love . DONT HEED CALVIN . And may all take heed .
Let us , RATHER , learn the bible for ourselves .

 

[robert derrick]

Yes, I'm... well aware of that. Painfully aware... :)


Now, this is a little different subject than the one at hand, but do you think it's possible to be sinless in this life? You know, to have perfectly repented of all your sin, and then to never sin again? In this life?


Absolutely not. But only, as John puts it, that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

See, this is the problem; the doctrines or beliefs that some disagree with they twist (purposely or not I'm not sure) into something they are most assuredly not. That's a problem.

Grace and peace to you.

You know, to have perfectly repented of all your sin, and then to never sin again? In this life?

And so, you finally ask the right question.

That is the call of the saints from day one:

Go and sin no more.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

All sin is transgression of the law of Christ (1 John 3:4). To say we have no sin is a claim of perfection that does no exist in the flesh, because the flesh is ever ready to sin.

The call to be saints is to purify our hearts, and be no more double minded in our minds first, and then our bodies.

Christians can sin and confess and be forgiven 70 times 7 and more, as have I in the past, but there comes a time where we are called to lay aside all such besetting sin, and live as commanded from the beginning: eat not of it.

Once the Christian purifies his heart as commanded and brings into submission every vain and lustful imagination of the mind, that Christian will naturally then obey sin no more with the body, whether in tongue or in deed.

I have done so by the grace of God. I wrestled against it for long time, but then like Jacob I stopped fighting the command and began fighting the carnal mind.

My only confession now is with any thoughts of the mind, that I have yet to crucify, but they never make it to the deeds of the body, whether in word or deed.

OSAS doctrine concludes this to never be possible, while in the flesh, which is shown by your incredulous questioning of it.

I can sin in the body, if I allow sin to take root in the mind. So long as we destroy sin in the heart and mind by the power of the Spirit, we will destroy sin before the body ever does it.

The old man and his deeds are crucified, when the vain and lustful imaginations of the heart are purified from the mind.

No, Christians do not sin bodily, so long as they destroy sin where it begins: in the heart and mind.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Lust is first conciev ed int he heart, which then brings for sin in the body, which then brings forth death in the soul:

The soul which sinneth, it shall die.

That applies to all souls without respect of persons by God. Trusting in a delusional unconditional grace and salvation for cover will not change it.

We can die daily in sin of the body, in need of confession, forgiveness, and renewal of repentance, or we can die daily to the sins of the heart and mind, and need no confession of sins not committed in the body.

The blessed peace you speak of is not found in OSAS delusions of separation of 'saved' soul and sinning body. It is only found in separation of the heart from sins of the mind, so that the body will not sin and be found transgression of the law of life in Christ Jesus.

Eternal salvation is for them that obey Him in the heart, mind, and body.

The battleground is the mind, and is won therein, or is lost with the body. God surely sees the sin in the mind, long before it is committed in the body.

This struggle is promised to be continued unto the end, when in the first resurrection of the church, the purified hearts and souls on earth, will recieved a glorified spiritual body, that wants no more to do with sin then they do.

 

[PinSeeker]

Hear YE , HEAR YE , to all peoples , all tongues , all tribes and all nations of the known world
today i make a declaration unto all in love . DONT HEED CALVIN . And may all take heed .
Let us , RATHER , learn the bible for ourselves .

So... lean on your own understanding? God tells us not to do that... (Proverbs 3:5) :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

You know, to have perfectly repented of all your sin, and then to never sin again? In this life?

And so, you finally ask the right question.

That is the call of the saints from day one:

Go and sin no more.

What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

All sin is transgression of the law of Christ (1 John 3:4). To say we have no sin is a claim of perfection that does no exist in the flesh, because the flesh is ever ready to sin.

The call to be saints is to purify our hearts, and be no more double minded in our minds first, and then our bodies.

Christians can sin and confess and be forgiven 70 times 7 and more, as have I in the past, but there comes a time where we are called to lay aside all such besetting sin, and live as commanded from the beginning: eat not of it.

Once the Christian purifies his heart as commanded and brings into submission every vain and lustful imagination of the mind, that Christian will naturally then obey sin no more with the body, whether in tongue or in deed.

I have done so by the grace of God. I wrestled against it for long time, but then like Jacob I stopped fighting the command and began fighting the carnal mind.

My only confession now is with any thoughts of the mind, that I have yet to crucify, but they never make it to the deeds of the body, whether in word or deed.

OSAS doctrine concludes this to never be possible, while in the flesh, which is shown by your incredulous questioning of it.

I can sin in the body, if I allow sin to take root in the mind. So long as we destroy sin in the heart and mind by the power of the Spirit, we will destroy sin before the body ever does it.

The old man and his deeds are crucified, when the vain and lustful imaginations of the heart are purified from the mind.

No, Christians do not sin bodily, so long as they destroy sin where it begins: in the heart and mind.

But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Lust is first conciev ed int he heart, which then brings for sin in the body, which then brings forth death in the soul:

The soul which sinneth, it shall die.

That applies to all souls without respect of persons by God. Trusting in a delusional unconditional grace and salvation for cover will not change it.

We can die daily in sin of the body, in need of confession, forgiveness, and renewal of repentance, or we can die daily to the sins of the heart and mind, and need no confession of sins not committed in the body.

The blessed peace you speak of is not found in OSAS delusions of separation of 'saved' soul and sinning body. It is only found in separation of the heart from sins of the mind, so that the body will not sin and be found transgression of the law of life in Christ Jesus.

Eternal salvation is for them that obey Him in the heart, mind, and body.

The battleground is the mind, and is won therein, or is lost with the body. God surely sees the sin in the mind, long before it is committed in the body.

This struggle is promised to be continued unto the end, when in the first resurrection of the church, the purified hearts and souls on earth, will recieved a glorified spiritual body, that wants no more to do with sin then they do.

All I was asking for is your opinion on that question. And all that was needed was a simple yes or no. You gave me neither. So, again, do you think it's possible to be sinless in this life? You know, to have perfectly repented of all your sin, and then to never sin again? In this life? Yes or no?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Cooper]

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death...

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died ~ more than that, who was raised ~ who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

'For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.'
​

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

[Romans 8, emphasis mine]

If we have been saved by the Lord, nothing ~ absolutely nothing, even we ourselves, because we are a part of creation, too ~ can separate us from His love. We may think (or feel like) we have lost our salvation from time to time, or God may, in His discipline (which He gives to those He loves) may take away His countenance for a time. But nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Nothing.

"He Who began a good work in us will bring it to completion at the day of Christ."

[Philippians 1:6, emphasis mine]

"For all the promises of God find their Yes in (Christ Jesus). That is why it is through (Christ) that we utter our Amen to God for His glory" (2 Corinthians 1:20, emphasis mine). All of them.

Grace and peace.

You do know about the fate of backsliders I presume. Meaning people who once believed, but later reject the true God and either become unbelievers or they turn to one of the many false religions?

 

[amigo de christo]

So... lean on your own understanding? God tells us not to do that... (Proverbs 3:5) :)

Grace and peace to you.

Lean not unto the understanding of Calvin either .

 

[Cooper]

"There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death...

What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him graciously give us all things? Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died ~ more than that, who was raised ~ who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or danger, or sword? As it is written,

'For your sake we are being killed all the day long;
we are regarded as sheep to be slaughtered.'
​

No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord."

[Romans 8, emphasis mine]

If we have been saved by the Lord, nothing ~ absolutely nothing, even we ourselves, because we are a part of creation, too ~ can separate us from His love. We may think (or feel like) we have lost our salvation from time to time, or God may, in His discipline (which He gives to those He loves) may take away His countenance for a time. But nothing can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord. Nothing.

"He Who began a good work in us will bring it to completion at the day of Christ."

[Philippians 1:6, emphasis mine]

"For all the promises of God find their Yes in (Christ Jesus). That is why it is through (Christ) that we utter our Amen to God for His glory" (2 Corinthians 1:20, emphasis mine). All of them.

Grace and peace.

Tell me what happened to Adam after he disobeyed God.
.