Grace-Haters are incapable of honestly admitting what the (P) in Calvinism really means.

[robert derrick]

Obedience proceeds from the heart to which faith has been given.


Agreed. The latter precipitates, without fail from the person because of the former.


Agreed.


But here not so much. :) The heart infused with faith results in obedience.


This really makes no sense. In any case, boasting in oneself because of his/or her works and deservedness of God's grace is totally antithetical to Biblical teaching. Any perceived deservedness of God's grace on one's part with regard to works or anything else either intentionally or unintentionally makes God's grace into something that is not really grace at all.


Neither boasted of anything regarding faith or salvation. Both boasted in the Lord, and the Lord only.



The error of every other "faith" aside from Christianity is that they think they can do enough to earn salvation (if they even believe that any sort of salvation is necessary, because some certainly do not), that self-righteousness and self-salvation is possible. Every. Single. One.


This is a little garbled, it seems, but as I said, works are the natural outpouring from the person who has been given faith by God. Otherwise, works are worthless. And if a person says he/she has faith but there are no works to show it outwardly, then there is no saving faith. This was Jame'ss point, that faith without works is dead.

Grace and peace to you.

This really makes no sense. In any case, boasting in oneself because of his/or her works and deservedness of God's grace is totally antithetical to Biblical teaching.

For if I have boasted any thing to him of you, I am not ashamed; but as we spake all things to you in truth, even so our boasting, which I made before Titus, is found a truth.

Scripture makes no sense to a carnal minded doctrine made up without Scripture, to suit one's own kind of salvation.

Paul was boasting to Timothy of the obedience the Corinthians learned to do by his first epistle of correction.

Neither boasted of anything regarding faith or salvation. Both boasted in the Lord, and the Lord only.

And so, your OSAS doctrine of pseudo humility is false.

The point remains: The OSAS habit of condemning all works as sources for boastful pride is a purposed denial of the difference between works of our own righteousness according to our own morality, and the works of the righteousness of God by the faith of Jesus, which pleases Him being by His faith.

OSAS is so anathema to the eternal salvation of obedience works of Jesus' faith, they will not see clearly what Scripture plainly teaches.

Any perceived deservedness of God's grace on one's part with regard to works or anything else either intentionally or unintentionally makes God's grace into something that is not really grace at all.

And so, you present a false humility that is meaningless: Faith without works of faith is dead, even as faith without obedience in the heart is dead, and unsaved.

And so we obtain eternal salvation by faithfully obeying Jesus in the heart and in our mortal bodies.

You want to carnally parse between believing and obeying for the sake of a false unconditional salvation. God ahead.

Unconditional is not a Bible word. At all.

The error of every other "faith" aside from Christianity is that they think they can do enough to earn salvation

Which is true, and is a purposed lie against obtaining eternal salvation of Jesus by obeying Jesus in the body from the heart.

works are the natural outpouring from the person who has been given faith by God.

And works of obedience and of faith are the same, because faith and obedience in the heart are the same.

We are saved by obeying God to repent and believe Him, and we obtain eternal salvation by obeying God in our mortal bodies by His obedience born in our hearts through faith.

 

[robert derrick]

Obedience proceeds from the heart to which faith has been given.


Agreed. The latter precipitates, without fail from the person because of the former.


Agreed.


But here not so much. :) The heart infused with faith results in obedience.


This really makes no sense. In any case, boasting in oneself because of his/or her works and deservedness of God's grace is totally antithetical to Biblical teaching. Any perceived deservedness of God's grace on one's part with regard to works or anything else either intentionally or unintentionally makes God's grace into something that is not really grace at all.


Neither boasted of anything regarding faith or salvation. Both boasted in the Lord, and the Lord only.



The error of every other "faith" aside from Christianity is that they think they can do enough to earn salvation (if they even believe that any sort of salvation is necessary, because some certainly do not), that self-righteousness and self-salvation is possible. Every. Single. One.


This is a little garbled, it seems, but as I said, works are the natural outpouring from the person who has been given faith by God. Otherwise, works are worthless. And if a person says he/she has faith but there are no works to show it outwardly, then there is no saving faith. This was Jame'ss point, that faith without works is dead.

Grace and peace to you.

This was James' point, that faith without works is dead.

Agreed. Salvation by faith alone in the heart is dead, and ends in the grave.

There is no faith of Jesus alone anytime nor anywhere: His obedience is one with His faith.

 

[robert derrick]

God enables some to choose Him; He has mercy on those whom He will have mercy, compassion upon whom He will have compassion. He changes the heart of those whom He chooses. The heart drives the will. Those whose hearts are changed do not fail to choose Him, because no longer are they dead in their sin and thus not of Him and wholly inclined against Him, but they are born again of the Spirit, of Him, and inclined toward Him. At this point they make the right choice.

It depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. This is Romans 9:16. This does not suggest that we don't make a choice. We do, but initially, it depends on whether God gives man new birth in the Spirit or not.

God is totally sovereign over all His creation.

Grace and peace.

This does not suggest that we don't make a choice. We do, but initially, it depends on whether God gives man new birth in the Spirit or not.

A new depth to OSAS prechosen and unconditional salvation: faith by salvation.

Before this, free will had absolutely no place in God's 'saving grace'. And it still doesn't:

We are not saved by faith, but rather we believe because we are saved by new birth given by choice of God.

We are not even born again and saved, because we believed Him and His gospel from the heart, but rather we must believe Him, because He already put His Spirit into our hearts before ever believing!

We become believers by Spiritual experience!

We are first born again by God, and then we have no choice but to believe Him, because He already snuck His spirit in on us!

And since we have no choice but to believe, then we have no choice to not believe.

Hence we are unconditionally saved by believing without condition, nor option of choice, because we have already 'experienced' His new birth, when we least expected it.

And so, it's all about God and on God, to whom He will save or not by a new birth, with unbidden and unchosen faith following.

And since believing was not by our choice at all, but a necessary belief by experience, then our only choice is to obey or not.

And if not, then we are not held accountable, because we have no choice by to believe forever by experience of the Spirit:

Believing alone by an unconditional salvation of being born again of the Spirit by God's choice, not by our faith in Him.

Now I do truly see the depths of Satan to which the doctrine must go, to be unconditionally saved by faith alone.

The mysticism that the carnal mind will go through, to try and make spiritual wickedness in high places look ordained of God.

 

[robert derrick]

God enables some to choose Him; He has mercy on those whom He will have mercy, compassion upon whom He will have compassion. He changes the heart of those whom He chooses. The heart drives the will. Those whose hearts are changed do not fail to choose Him, because no longer are they dead in their sin and thus not of Him and wholly inclined against Him, but they are born again of the Spirit, of Him, and inclined toward Him. At this point they make the right choice.

It depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. This is Romans 9:16. This does not suggest that we don't make a choice. We do, but initially, it depends on whether God gives man new birth in the Spirit or not.

God is totally sovereign over all His creation.

Grace and peace.

God is totally sovereign over all His creation.

Especially, when we have no choice but to believe, since He's already saved us by a new birth, which is made by choice of God alone.

It is faith alone, because it is God's choice alone.

This takes being planted by God to whole new level. I'm just a tree and a rock with no will nor exertion nor choice in the matter.

And so, how can God see my sins as sinful, since I'm just a bush planted by Him, without having believed anything at all??

That is Calvinism on steroids. (Of course, God doesn't plant bush's producing sinful fruit. But, that's another matter)

It is the carnal mind trying to infuse quasi 'spiritual' thinking into a doctrine, that has no comprehension of Scriptural understanding, because it is made up by the carnal mind.

OSAS is the unconditional salvation for the carnal minded, who do not want to answer for, nor be responsible for the sins of their bodies.

Since obedience in the flesh is anathema to the carnal mind, so is obeying Him for eternal salvation is likewise anathema.

"I believe, because I have to believe, because I've been born again forever by His choice."

And so, in the end, unconditional salvation by faith alone is not even by faith of the believer, until after being saved by choice of God.

Unbelievers with no chance to believe, by experiencing salvation chosen of God, go to hell against their will, and believers with no choice but to believe, due to 'experience' of salvation chosen of God, go to heaven without any will at all.

Incredible.

 

[robert derrick]

God enables some to choose Him; He has mercy on those whom He will have mercy, compassion upon whom He will have compassion. He changes the heart of those whom He chooses. The heart drives the will. Those whose hearts are changed do not fail to choose Him, because no longer are they dead in their sin and thus not of Him and wholly inclined against Him, but they are born again of the Spirit, of Him, and inclined toward Him. At this point they make the right choice.

It depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. This is Romans 9:16. This does not suggest that we don't make a choice. We do, but initially, it depends on whether God gives man new birth in the Spirit or not.

God is totally sovereign over all His creation.

Grace and peace.

It depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. This is Romans 9:16. This does not suggest that we don't make a choice. We do, but initially, it depends on whether God gives man new birth in the Spirit or not.

Nor does it depend upon humans believing God. Which is why they go so far as to teach salvation, even in times when they don't beleive. It's only because they have forgotten the 'experience' of salvation thrust upon them, during times of dog and pig sin.

But, once they recover their senses, they will remember again that they were once saved by God's choice, and so will believe again. Being saved no matter what.

OSAS teaches we are saved by grace through His choice, not of our belief, lest we should boast!

They not only forbid salvation because of obeying Jesus from the heart, they don't even allow salvation because they believed Jesus from the heart!

It's not only obedience following faith, but it's faith following salvation!

It's all repulsive stuff of course:

For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.

He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father.

We are saved and loved of the Father, because we loved His son, by obeying and believing His Son from the heart.

And them that continue in loving and obeying Him unto the end, shall obtain eternal salvation in the first resurrection of the church.

We are saved by grace through loving Jesus with obedience and faith from the heart, while yet in our natural bodies.

I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Unconditional grace lovers are loving God by obedience haters.

 

[robert derrick]

Grace-Haters

Unconditional grace lovers are obedience haters.

 

[PinSeeker]

Unconditional grace lovers are loving God by obedience haters.

Quite the contrary is true. As I said, good works and obedience are the natural result of, once given, the unconditional grace of God unto salvation.

Having said that, who is responsible for the working of faith in an individual, Robert Derrick? Who? And who is ultimately responsible for remaining faithful to the end? Who? You might provide a brief Biblical reference in support of these two questions. I mean, I have my answers to these questions, but I want to see what yours are. And, hey, don't write me a book. :)

Grace and peace to you.

 

[atpollard]

You haven't thought enough about what is written to see what is being said:
The Lord knows the condition of the heart, before the deed is ever done.

Respectfully, it is not I that has ignored what was written. You wrote …

How does the Lord know the condition of our heart? By our works.

By what works? Well, by looking at OSAS, that's the big question.

So which of your contradictory statements is correct?
1. “How does the Lord know the condition of our heart? By our works.”
2. “The Lord knows the condition of the heart, before the deed is ever done.”

For a monergist, like those that accept the sovereign God described by the Doctrines of Grace … God’s heart is the will that matters.

For a synergist, like those that hold to a god of limited omniscience that patiently waits on the free will of man to know who is and is not His child, man’s heart and deeds are the driver of divine redemption.

 

[atpollard]

Unbelievers with no chance to believe, by experiencing salvation chosen of God, go to hell against their will, and believers with no choice but to believe, due to 'experience' of salvation chosen of God, go to heaven without any will at all.

Paul addressed this complaint in Romans 9.
You have misunderstood the fallen nature of man and the breath and depth of God’s grace.

[Isaiah 53:1 NASB95] 1 Who has believed our message? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
[Mark 16:16 NASB95] 16 "He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.
[John 12:38 NASB95] 38 This was to fulfill the word of Isaiah the prophet which he spoke: "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT? AND TO WHOM HAS THE ARM OF THE LORD BEEN REVEALED?"
[Romans 10:16 NASB95] 16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"​

Who, indeed?
That is the question.

[John 10:26-30 NASB95]

26 "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. 30 "I and the Father are one."​

 

[robert derrick]

Respectfully, it is not I that has ignored what was written. You wrote …


So which of your contradictory statements is correct?
1. “How does the Lord know the condition of our heart? By our works.”
2. “The Lord knows the condition of the heart, before the deed is ever done.”

For a monergist, like those that accept the sovereign God described by the Doctrines of Grace … God’s heart is the will that matters.

For a synergist, like those that hold to a god of limited omniscience that patiently waits on the free will of man to know who is and is not His child, man’s heart and deeds are the driver of divine redemption.

I accept the correction.

Man knows the condition of man's heart by our works. Which includes our own. God knows our hearts by seeing His righteousness by the faith and obedience of Jesus, or the lust of the world by disobedience to Jesus in our hearts.

OSAS separates their hearts from their own bodies by believing in a false salvation that has nothing to do with the deeds for their bodies.

Doctrines of Grace

There is no such thing in Scripture.

Grace is available to all that believe Jesus for help in time of need to obey Him: from the heart and with the body.

The 'celebratory' worship of an unconditional Goddess called 'grace' is idolatry of the carnal mind.

Carnal minds come up with such things as 'monergist and synergist', which is scholastic rubbish: science falsely so called.

A god of limited omniscience that patiently waits on the free will of man to know who is and is not His child.

That is silly talk posing as 'understanding'.

Them that believe and obey Him wait patiently on the Lord's coming. Them that do not obey Him will be caught unaware and found naked.

man’s heart and deeds are the driver of divine redemption.

Carnal man's heart is the driver of unconditionally secured eternal salvation for them that don't believe in obeying Him for His eternal salvation. Which is contradiction of simple Scripture:

And became the Author of eternal salvation for all them that obey Him.

OSAS believes in salvation. They do not believe Jesus, which is to obey Him.

The dystopian surrealism of OSAS is they believe their hearts and souls are separated from the deeds of their bodies 'by faith'. They suppose themselves to be already beheaded and dead in Christ, sitting in heavenly places, while their natural bodies on earth go on doing what sinful bodies do, as though they have nothing to say about it, and so are not judged for it.

God doesn't 'see' their sins like some blind monkey that will see no evil.

 

[robert derrick]

Quite the contrary is true. As I said, good works and obedience are the natural result of, once given, the unconditional grace of God unto salvation.

Having said that, who is responsible for the working of faith in an individual, Robert Derrick? Who? And who is ultimately responsible for remaining faithful to the end? Who? You might provide a brief Biblical reference in support of these two questions. I mean, I have my answers to these questions, but I want to see what yours are. And, hey, don't write me a book. :)

Grace and peace to you.

Once 'salvation' is made separate from obedience of the body, then the deceived can naturally flow all they want, whether to do the righteousness of God or the sins of the world.

They eat of the tree of the knowledge of both good and evil: when convenient they do good, when lust demands they do evil.

Sin is not exceeding sinful to them, because sinning has nothing to do with 'their salvation'.

who is responsible for the working of faith in an individual

The work of salvation in the soul is by the Spirit.

And who is ultimately responsible for remaining faithful to the end?

The works of salvation in the body are by the saved souls working out our own salvation with fear and trembling.

Obedience begins in the heart with faith and is seen in the body by faith.

OSAS separates believing from obeying in the heart, that they may claim the faith of Jesus inwardly without necessity of obeying Him outwardly: they are not 'responsible' for working out their salvation, and so have no cooperation with God in doing so.

Like little daisies in the field, they're just saved because they believe it, and there's nothing they can do about it, whether good or evil.

'Losing salvation' is a distracting argument they use to avoid the real lie: salvation by faith alone, which is dead.

OSAS has no fear of the Lord nor trembling, because they believe God cannot see their sin.

OSAS is the flower child of lies: "I know I do bad things, but God knows my heart is good".

 

[robert derrick]

You have misunderstood the fallen nature of man and the breath and depth of God’s grace.

God's grace is as deep as we want it to go in order to overcome temptation and sin in the heart and in the body.

It has nothing to do with 'covering' sin, which is a devil's lie for the happy hippies that want to play at salvation.

 

[robert derrick]

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

James is speaking to double-minded Christians, who want to believe in Jesus in the heart, while yet disobeying Jesus with the body.

The idea of believers playing no role in, having no part in, not being responsible for our salvation is the effort of hypocrites to separate the responsibility of their souls from the sins of their bodies: they want to believe a lie that faith and obedience are separate from one another.

They would believe in the heart, while yet disobeying in the body.

We draw nigh to God. We purify our hearts and so purify ourselves, even as He is pure.

We are to resist temptation in the spirit and in the body.

We pull down every stronghold of lust and thought of disobedience in our minds.

We are given power to become the sons of God, and so to learn obedience to Him as Jesus did, even when the flesh is weak, and the mind doesn't feel like it.

They do not overcome the infirmity of the flesh by the help of God's grace, but rather overthrow judgement against sin by help of an 'unconditional grace' that is not of God, but of the world.

OSAS is the realm of them that only obey when convenient, and so pat themselves on the back as doing good. But then when lust calls, their bodies are given to sin, while pretending their hearts are still pure by 'faith', which is not the faith of Jesus, but is the dead faith of the children of disobedience upon whom is the wrath of God.

 

[Kermos]

That’s okay, just wait, since my refutation of Calvinism is soon to be an OP.

You’ll particularly like the Romans 9 refutation of the reformed reading of their twisted election doctrine into it.

But thanks for picking such a great example of how Calvinists inject their version of election doctrines into scripture.

Taken as an out of context proof text, their eisegesis into the text, is that Paul is referring to their calling and election unto salvation.

But first of all, that interpretation is contradictory to their own predestination dogma, because in their systematic theology, to save the elect, God regenerates them and they then immediately believe the gospel and are saved - which isn’t an ongoing process requiring starting to save the elect, and then needing to continue the process, until finally they are saved - since in their theology, if you believe the gospel, you’re already saved.

Secondly, it’s clear in context that the Philippians had from day one, partnered with Paul and supported him in the work of preaching the gospel, and Paul says that God will continue that good work He began through them in their support of Paul, until the work is completed.

The topic clearly is NOT their salvation at all, but their partnership in the gospel.

To whit:

Php 1:3 I thank my God in all my remembrance of you,

Php 1:4 always in every prayer of mine for you all making my prayer with joy,

Php 1:5 because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now.

Php 1:6 And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Php 1:7 It is right for me to feel this way about you all, because I hold you in my heart, for you are all partakers with me of grace, both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel.


But this is indeed a first rate example of how Reformed doctrine imposes false hermeneutics into their proof texts.

EDIT: I just checked the Good News Bible, and that version is even easier to understand the meaning of that passage:

Php 1:3 I thank my God for you every time I think of you;

Php 1:4 and every time I pray for you all, I pray with joy

Php 1:5 because of the way in which you have helped me in the work of the gospel from the very first day until now.

Php 1:6 And so I am sure that God, who began this good work in you, will carry it on until it is finished on the Day of Christ Jesus.

Php 1:7 You are always in my heart! And so it is only right for me to feel as I do about you. For you have all shared with me in this privilege that God has given me, both now that I am in prison and also while I was free to defend the gospel and establish it firmly.

Excellent ... you have stopped telling me what Reformed believe (and getting it wrong) and actually addressed Scripture for a change. I am EXCITED!


"it’s clear in context that the Philippians had from day one, partnered with Paul and supported him in the work of preaching the gospel,"
I completely agree. This is indeed the context in which Paul writes to the Corinthian Christians.

"and Paul says that God will continue that good work He began through them in their support of Paul, until the work is completed. The topic clearly is NOT their salvation at all, but their partnership in the gospel."
Sorry, but I really just do not see that in the words that Paul writes.
"And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."
"And [Paul] am sure of this, that [God] who began a good work in [the Corinthian Christians] will bring [that good work] to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."
God began the work, so God will bring it to completion.
The good work was begun IN (inside) YOU (people - the Christians), so the work will be completed IN/INSIDE those same Christians where it began.
Nothing indicates that ANY of this is about preaching the Gospel.
It is ALL about GOD working in people ... that IS Salvation.

In verse 6, who are "I", "he" and "you"? ... How can that point to the Gospel as the good work to be completed?

Hello @Curtis and @atpollard

@Curtis appears to have truncated Philippians 1:7 - as shown in his quoted post.

Here is the Apostle Paul's unadulterated writing:

"For it is only right for me to feel this way about you all, because I have you in my heart, since both in my imprisonment and in the defense and confirmation of the gospel, you all are partakers of grace with me" (Philippians 1:7).

The "partakers of grace with me" includes salvation, just as the whole of Philippians 1:3-7 includes salvation.

 

[atpollard]

Doctrines of Grace

There is no such thing in Scripture.

The Doctrines of Grace are found in scripture as surely as the doctrine of the Trinity is found in scripture. The phrase does not appear.

 

[atpollard]

OSAS believes in salvation. They do not believe Jesus, which is to obey Him.

A nonsensical understanding of the Doctrines of Grace and beliefs of Reformed Theology and Particular Baptists like myself.

We believe that Ephesians 2:8-9 comes BEFORE Ephesians 2:10 for a deliberate reason.
Not “grace or works”.
Not “works before grace”.
“Good Works” are the God ordained ‘walk’ of those who have already received “HIS GRACE”.

 

[PinSeeker]

All the labels people put on stuff can sometimes be unhelpful. And "once saved always saved (OSAS)" is kind of a clumsy way of labeling God's great salvation, really. But salvation, once given, cannot be lost. As Peter says:

"According to (God's) great mercy, (God) has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for (us) who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5)​

And after saying that God, in His absolute sovereignty, will have mercy on whom He has mercy, and compassion on whom He will have compassion (Romans 9), Paul then talks specifically about this group of people, the remnant that God, in His grace, has chosen for Himself in Romans 11:5-6. He says, very clearly:

"So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace."​

Indisputably, God's grace and the work of the Holy Spirit initiates salvation in man. And because of the new heart and the working of faith (which man cannot bring about in himself in any way, shape, or form) in man at the point of justification (which is God's declaration of righteousness by the imputation of Jesus's righteousness), good works, which are themselves synonymous to service and love to God inevitably follow:

"...it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12-13)

"Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God... if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us. By this we know that we abide in him and he in us, because he has given us of his Spirit... By this is love perfected with us, so that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as he is so also are we in this world... We love because he first loved us." (1 John 4:7-19)​

Grace and peace to all.

 

[Cooper]

There is a balance to be had between God's grace, and God's righteousness.

 

[Cassandra]

"According to (God's) great mercy, (God) has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for (us) who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time." (1 Peter 1:3-5)

Indisputably, God's grace and the work of the Holy Spirit initiates salvation in man. And because of the new heart and the working of faith (which man cannot bring about in himself in any way, shape, or form) in man at the point of justification (which is God's declaration of righteousness by the imputation of Jesus's righteousness), good works, which are themselves synonymous to service and love to God inevitably follow:

"...it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12-13)

There is some sort of OSAS argument I saw recently saying you can fall into disbelief and still be saved. According to what is posted above, that is not true.
This talks about being guarded through faith. If we fall into unbelief, we have lost our faith, so that negates that part.


Heb 3:12-14 "12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;"
How are we made partakers in Christ? we have to hold our confidence--cannot go through unrepentant unbelief and still be saved.

Also,re: justification, there is justification-righteousness by faith, only available through Christ. He alone justifies, and then there is sanctification--the new man and because of the relationship between he and the Father, through the Son, will experience a change in character. It can take a lifetime, but that is OK as along as we are on the path-straight and narrow, doing His will.. If we fall into unbelief, we have to go back and ask for forgiveness.

Titus 3:7-8 "That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men."




Salvation isn't a "God, I'm sorry. Let's go party." thing (with apologies to the Barbie Girl song). It is freely given, but if we love the Lord, we will follow Him.

You love your family. Do you just say "I love you", or is that love active? How much more so for the Lord?We are going to mess up, but we can go boldly to the throne of grace and ask for forgiveness if we are truly sorry.
Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need."

 

[atpollard]

There is a balance to be had between God's grace, and God's righteousness.

It falls to the POTTER to strike the balance ... not to the clay.