God Created All Humanity When He Created Adam

[JBO]

There is the condemnation for sin, there is the imputation of sin, and there is the reality of sin, and each of these address different aspects.

"Sin is not imputed when there is no law". Someone may sin, but without God having told them it was sin, He does not count it against them judicially. So there is no condemnation for sin. But it's still sin, and it still has effect.

It's like jumping off a building when there is no law against it. You aren't guilty of breaking a law, but you still die when you hit the street.

If you chop off your finger, you've not broken the law, but you are still missing your finger.

All humanity contained in Adam, when Adam sinned, he, all that he was, died. So even not being condemned for Adam's sin, we still share his death, his spiritual death, which means we are born disconnected from God. And that assures us that we will in fact sin, each of us, as soon as we are able.

And again there is that passage, "by one man offence death reigned by one". Whether you see this as spiritual or physical death, it all came from Adam, his sin.

Much love!

Simply and horribly false. God is the only one to impute sin. He does not impute the sin of one person unto another. We are not born disconnected from God. We are born absolutely connected to God until such time that we sin.

Jesus said, "Let the children alone, and do not hinder them from coming to Me; for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these." Do you really think that the kingdom of heaven belongs to those disconnected from God?

Adam was simply the first to suffer spiritual death. Everyone after him suffered spiritual death because THEY sinned (Rom 5:12).

That anyone could think God could do such a thing is really abhorrent.

 

[marks]

Simply and horribly false.

Perhaps a line by line study here is in order:

Romans 5:10-21 KJV
10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11) And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16) And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

One man's sin did each of these things, made many sinners, brought condemnation on all men, made many dead.

Much love!

 

[JBO]

Perhaps a line by line study here is in order:

Romans 5:10-21 KJV
10) For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11) And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.
12) Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
13) (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
14) Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
16) And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
17) For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
18) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
19) For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
20) Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
21) That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

One man's sin did each of these things, made many sinners, brought condemnation on all men, made many dead.

Much love!

Perhaps we can try that again.

Romans 5:10-21 ESV
Rom 5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life.
Rom 5:11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
Rom 5:12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned--
Rom 5:13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
Rom 5:14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
Rom 5:15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.
Rom 5:16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.
Rom 5:17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
Rom 5:18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.
Rom 5:19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.
Rom 5:20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,
Rom 5:21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


One man's (Jesus') obedience did much more than any of the things done by the one man's (Adam's) disobedience. Paul has said here that whatever you think might have happened because of Adam's disobedience was effectively undone, negated, canceled out by Jesus' obedience.

 

[marks]

you think might have happened because of Adam's disobedience was effectively undone, negated, canceled out by Jesus' obedience.

Jesus undid my imaginations? That doesn't make sense! If Jesus undid it, then it was done, to then be undone.

I've quoted the Bible about what Adam did.

You've addressed God's answer to this problem, without addressing the Biblical statement of what the problem was, except to call it "what I think might have happened."

Much love!

 

[marks]

15) But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

@WPM

Were many dead through the offense of one?

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

God performed 1 single creative act in making Man.

Genesis 1:27
So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

This wasn't simply God creating a single man, to be followed by an innumerable series of individuals. When God created Adam, He created all humanity. From Adam, Eve was taken, but not as a new creative act as when God created Adam.

Children when they are conceived are not each new creations like Adam was, but are the unfolding of Humanity, created by God in that day, now unfolding through the centuries as each generation comes from the last. The child is of course formed from cells that come from the parents, as a continuation of the same life created in Adam on that day.

We see this here,

Hebrews 7:8-10
(8) And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
(9) And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham.
(10) For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

Levi paid tithes to Melchisedec, being in the loins of his father, Abraham, who was likewise in the loins of his father, and so on, back to Adam.

When Adam died, because he sinned, all humanity died, being in the loins of Adam. Just as Levi paid tithes.

Much love!

Unfolding of Adam, refolding in Christ. Bingo!

 

[ScottA]

Simply and horribly false. God is the only one to impute sin. He does not impute the sin of one person unto another. We are not born disconnected from God. We are born absolutely connected to God until such time that we sin.

That would seem reasonable...except that each is born after his own "kind." Meaning that, because the narrative from God goes immediately to the fall of man "kind", the principle is indeed carried forward as each one born of the sinful "kind" enters into this world.

Likewise, those who are born of God, of His "kind" which is spirit and holy, are they not without sin as God is without sin?

 

[JBO]

Jesus undid my imaginations? That doesn't make sense! If Jesus undid it, then it was done, to then be undone.

I've quoted the Bible about what Adam did.

And I quoted the Bible about what Jesus did. He undid what Adam did.

Now just to be very clear hear. None of Romans 5:14-19 is dealing with what you and I have done. It is not speaking about what Jesus' obedience did for your sins or my sins. It is only addressing the effect of Jesus' obedience on what the effect Adam's disobedience did, not your or my disobedience. That discussion begins in verse 19 and continues on through chapter six where we find that just as Christ was raised up from the dead that we too will be raised up from baptism to walk in newness of life, i.e., be born again

You've addressed God's answer to this problem, without addressing the Biblical statement of what the problem was, except to call it "what I think might have happened."

Much love!

To be clear again here, the problem being addressed in Romans 14-19 is not our sins and the effect it has on us. The problem being addressed there is Adam's sin. It says there that Jesus solved that problem. Just as Adam's sin was universal, then so also was Jesus' obedience universal in setting aside what is called original sin. Because of what Jesus did, we are not born in original sin we are born in original grace. What happens after that is purely up to us.

It is in Romans 5:19 that Paul begins to discuss the problem of our sins.

 

[marks]

And I quoted the Bible about what Jesus did. He undid what Adam did.

Now just to be very clear hear. None of Romans 5:14-19 is dealing with what you and I have done. It is not speaking about what Jesus' obedience did for your sins or my sins. It is only addressing the effect of Jesus' obedience on what the effect Adam's disobedience did, not your or my disobedience. That discussion begins in verse 19 and continues on through chapter six where we find that just as Christ was raised up from the dead that we too will be raised up from baptism to walk in newness of life, i.e., be born again

To be clear again here, the problem being addressed in Romans 14-19 is not our sins and the effect it has on us. The problem being addressed there is Adam's sin. It says there that Jesus solved that problem. Just as Adam's sin was universal, then so also was Jesus' obedience universal in setting aside what is called original sin. Because of what Jesus did, we are not born in original sin we are born in original grace. What happens after that is purely up to us.

It is in Romans 5:19 that Paul begins to discuss the problem of our sins.

Why does everyone sin?

Much love!

 

[JBO]

That would seem reasonable...except that each is born after his own "kind." Meaning that, because the narrative from God goes immediately to the fall of man "kind", the principle is indeed carried forward as each one born of the sinful "kind" enters into this world.

Likewise, those who are born of God, of His "kind" which is spirit and holy, are they not without sin as God is without sin?

Our spirits are not born of parents, our spirits are born of God. Do not fall into the trap of traducianism. Our spirits do not come by way of procreation, they come from God.

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

God does not give or form dead in trespasses and sin.

 

[JBO]

Why does everyone sin?

For the exact same reason that Adam and Eve sinned. They were given a choice, they chose badly.

 

[marks]

For the exact same reason that Adam and Eve sinned. They were given a choice, they chose badly.

Why does everyone disobey God? All of them? Do you see what I'm asking? No exceptions.

Not to mention . . . Adam and Eve did not have the reason for doing what they did. Eve was deceived, Adam was not.

Regardless, I can't express this more clearly than in Romans 5, I think it best to leave it at that.

Much love!

 

[JBO]

Why does everyone disobey God? All of them? Do you see what I'm asking? No exceptions.

There was an exception. That was Jesus. And yes I see what you are asking. You are asking if there was or is anyone like Jesus. I think you know the answer to that.

Not to mention . . . Adam and Eve did not have the reason for doing what they did. Eve was deceived, Adam was not.

Yes, Eve was deceived. She thought God wouldn't do what He said if she disobeyed. And Adam was also deceived. He was given the same instructions from God that Eve received. Being deceived is not an excuse do disobey God.

Regardless, I can't express this more clearly than in Romans 5, I think it best to leave it at that.

You believe the first parts of verses 14-19. You don't believe the second parts of the same verses. Or to be a little more lenient, you think they are talking about something else.

My question to you is, Why do you think that God did such a horrible thing to you in condemning you for what Adam did?

 

[marks]

There was an exception. That was Jesus. And yes I see what you are asking. You are asking if there was or is anyone like Jesus. I think you know the answer to that.

No, I'm asking why did everyone - excepting Jesus - sin?

Much love!

 

[JBO]

No, I'm asking why did everyone - excepting Jesus - sin?

I answered that. Forget about being deceived. The reason Eve sinned is because she saw that "the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise".

That is almost John's definition for sin:

1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride life is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

For everyone, sooner or later, if they live long enough, will encounter something that fits into one of those three categories and will yield to it.

Or maybe you think that if it weren't for Satan or Adam, you would be perfect like Jesus. I really hope that is not the case.

 

[ElieG12]

I answered that. Forget about being deceived. The reason Eve sinned is because she saw that "the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise".

That is almost John's definition for sin:

1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world--the desires of the flesh and the desires of the eyes and pride life is not from the Father but is from the world. 17 And the world is passing away along with its desires, but whoever does the will of God abides forever.

For everyone, sooner or later, if they live long enough, will encounter something that fits into one of those three categories and will yield to it.

It is not consistent that you quote the Bible on the one hand while denying what it says on the other.

The Bible is clear that the sin of all of humanity originated in Adam.

It is the law of life: if a man is infected with a venereal disease and fathers a child, his child will suffer the consequences along with him.

 

[JBO]

It is not consistent that you quote the Bible on the one hand while denying what it says on the other.

I think that is you, not me.

The Bible is clear that the sin of all of humanity originated in Adam.

Originated, yes. He started it. He was not the cause. You are the cause of any and all of your sin.

It is the law of life: if a man is infected with a venereal disease and fathers a child, his child will suffer the consequences along with him.

Children suffer physically all the time for their parents' mistakes and sins. That is the natural course in the physical life of all. That does not carry over to the spiritual life. You will not go to hell because of your father's sin, or your father's father's sin, or....,,,,or Adam' sin

God says,

Eze 18:4 "Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine. The soul who sins will die.

Eze 18:20 "The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father's iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son's iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.

 

[ElieG12]

If I sin it is because I can't control all my actions because of the imperfect body I got out of the sin of my first human parents.

Does the phrase: "no one is perfect" sound familiar to you? It's real.

The reason a human cannot sire a horse is the same reason an imperfect man cannot sire a perfect one: genetics.

Imagine a mold to make bread. If the mold has a dent, all the breads that come out of that mold will have the same defect. Adam was our mold.

 

[ScottA]

Our spirits are not born of parents, our spirits are born of God. Do not fall into the trap of traducianism. Our spirits do not come by way of procreation, they come from God.

Zec 12:1 The burden of the word of the LORD concerning Israel: Thus declares the LORD, who stretched out the heavens and founded the earth and formed the spirit of man within him:

Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

God does not give or form dead in trespasses and sin.

You are mistaken.

All who are born are condemned to die, not for holiness from God, but from being born of sinful flesh.

As for man's spirit, it is not God's spirit, but man's--the spirit of the damned since Adam. Therefore we must be born again of the spirit of God. To say otherwise is against the teaching of Christ Jesus.

 

[ElieG12]

Exact. If our bodies continued to be perfect, taking care of ourselves, we could live forever, as newly created bodies, without defects.

Adam's sin was a communicable defect. This defect causes us to not function correctly and end up dying in a "natural" way, because from Adam we inherit the defect.

But God does not make defective things. The defect is from ourselves, or rather, from our first parents.

Deut. 32:4 The Rock, perfect is his activity,
For all his ways are justice.
A God of faithfulness, with whom there is no injustice;
Righteous and upright is he.
5 They have acted ruinously on their own part;
They are not his children, the defect is their own.
A generation crooked and twisted!
6 Is it to Jehovah that YOU keep doing this way,
O people stupid and not wise?
Is he not your Father who has produced you,
He who made you and proceeded to give you stability?