fatherless, widow, hungry

[DPMartin]

Deuteronomy 10:16-18
[16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. [17] For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: [18] He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


who are the fatherless in the Throne of Heaven's view? are they not those who are not born again and can't call God the Father (Abba)? who are the widows in the view of the Throne in Heaven, isn't it those who are betrothed to death, and not the Groom the everlasting Life we know to be Jesus? and who are those without food and raiment? aren't they those who need feed of Spirit, hence the Truth of God the Word of God, aren't they who need to be covered by the Blood of Jesus that their Maker sees them through His Beloved Son and not their own sin and shame?

if you want to talk about God's love and compassion there is where to look, there is plenty of need there. and those yahoos who call themselves don't have what is required to do those things, but they can satisfy each others desire to feel good, you know, warm and fuzzy. Those who are obedient to their own views and agendas of what Christianity is, are not obedient to the Lord. What those who call themselves pretend to do, cannot do what requires the Life of Christ to do. and to do that which is mentioned in Deut 10:16-18 requires the Life of Christ to do.

 

[Truth]

Deuteronomy 10:16-18
[16] Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked. [17] For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward: [18] He doth execute the judgment of the fatherless and widow, and loveth the stranger, in giving him food and raiment.

.
Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.


who are the fatherless in the Throne of Heaven's view? are they not those who are not born again and can't call God the Father (Abba)? who are the widows in the view of the Throne in Heaven, isn't it those who are betrothed to death, and not the Groom the everlasting Life we know to be Jesus? and who are those without food and raiment? aren't they those who need feed of Spirit, hence the Truth of God the Word of God, aren't they who need to be covered by the Blood of Jesus that their Maker sees them through His Beloved Son and not their own sin and shame?

if you want to talk about God's love and compassion there is where to look, there is plenty of need there. and those yahoos who call themselves don't have what is required to do those things, but they can satisfy each others desire to feel good, you know, warm and fuzzy. Those who are obedient to their own views and agendas of what Christianity is, are not obedient to the Lord. What those who call themselves pretend to do, cannot do what requires the Life of Christ to do. and to do that which is mentioned in Deut 10:16-18 requires the Life of Christ to do.

Never looked at this side of the coin, always took for granted that this issue was about the Physical, and the human side of the coin. Good thinking though, about time a thread that has some substance, might even Edify a few. Haven't been responding lately no real post's that are of interest.

 

[Windmill Charge]

who are the fatherless in the Throne of Heaven's view? are they not those who are not born again and can't call God the Father (Abba)?

I can see where you are coming from but think your interprtation is too free.

The chapter is talking about being practical in our Christian living in both how we act and how we think. It is not an evangelistic passage, so James is being practical when he say to care for widows and orpheans

 

[DPMartin]

I can see where you are coming from but think your interprtation is too free.

The chapter is talking about being practical in our Christian living in both how we act and how we think. It is not an evangelistic passage, so James is being practical when he say to care for widows and orpheans

James is quoting Deuteronomy isn't he?

 

[DPMartin]

Never looked at this side of the coin, always took for granted that this issue was about the Physical, and the human side of the coin. Good thinking though, about time a thread that has some substance, might even Edify a few. Haven't been responding lately no real post's that are of interest.

I can relate, hence the need I told you about. its good to walk away and return fresh, it won't be the only time.

 

[Truth]

I can relate, hence the need I told you about. its good to walk away and return fresh, it won't be the only time.

Yes, I have grown weary of the some what condemnation that happens between the differences in opinions! I started to join in on this thread to gain understanding, and hoped for some edification from wiser believers. By the way the beginning of Wisdom IS the fear of God.

 

[DPMartin]

Yes, I have grown weary of the some what condemnation that happens between the differences in opinions! I started to join in on this thread to gain understanding, and hoped for some edification from wiser believers. By the way the beginning of Wisdom IS the fear of God.

amen, and knowledge and understanding.

cheer up you could have been born in Iran, screaming die for ala

 

[Truth]

amen, and knowledge and understanding.

cheer up you could have been born in Iran, screaming die for ala

You know that your are Killin Me, LOL Yes and them too!

 

[Butterfly]

I have never looked at that passage in that way either, really challenging to look at it from a different prospective. Thanks for sharing X
It would be nice if it wasn't picked to pieces , which does seem to happen around here a lot.
I am of the belief that the Holy Spirit can bring new insight to passages in scripture- certainly what was a practical issue in james, can still transcend to a spiritual issue.
I mean the insight is based on the truth of the gospel - to care about the lost X
Butterfly

 

[DPMartin]

I have never looked at that passage in that way either, really challenging to look at it from a different prospective. Thanks for sharing X
It would be nice if it wasn't picked to pieces , which does seem to happen around here a lot.
I am of the belief that the Holy Spirit can bring new insight to passages in scripture- certainly what was a practical issue in james, can still transcend to a spiritual issue.
I mean the insight is based on the truth of the gospel - to care about the lost X
Butterfly

your posting reminds me of this:


Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. 12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. 13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.

though the OP scripture isn't a parable it is God's view from where He is, and when the Lord speaks He speaks from His view from where He is, just as any other living being that communicates does. and the Lord's view even when He walked with Israel His view was still from heaven:


Joh_3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

the bible addresses the flesh and the views from the flesh as low priority. and the issues of and about the Kingdom of Heaven as a high priority. so in reading the bible especially the NT the view and subject is the fulfillment of the Kingdom of God and it's King and His views on Heaven earth and what men ought to be and do in relationship to Him and His Kingdom that has no end.

 

[Helen]

Yes, I have grown weary of the some what condemnation that happens between the differences in opinions! I started to join in on this thread to gain understanding, and hoped for some edification from wiser believers. By the way the beginning of Wisdom IS the fear of God.

Me too...it is attitudes which get me down, not so much disagreements.
They will always be with us....it is the 'how' it is done that drags me down and causes me to take a break for a while. :)

Bless you...H

 

[Windmill Charge]

James is quoting Deuteronomy isn't he?

He can be said to be referring to a great many verses across the bible.
And if you are also referring to verses in Deuteronomy that talk about caring for widows etc, as those OT references would be about there physical needs it rather puts a hole in your spiritual argument.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

He can be said to be referring to a great many verses across the bible.
And if you are also referring to verses in Deuteronomy that talk about caring for widows etc, as those OT references would be about there physical needs it rather puts a hole in your spiritual argument.

His word is first physical, which gets twisted into countless meanings from man's perspective to suit man's agenda. Then the Word is Spirit, and does not get twisted, because it is (as the OP states) God's perspective. Does God care about our afflictions, absolutely. But it is our Spiritual state that is of more concern to God. The evidence is all around us. You don't think God can move His people to provide to the fatherless and widows (the physical). God has unlimited resources. But God moved men in the NT and men today to tend to their spiritual needs. That was and is the mission. The physical only a sign of God's power. But the physical was never the sole focus. God came to give us more (treasure in Heaven). Deuteronomy and James are indeed addressing the fatherless and widows (Spiritually). Who is the Father? Who is the Husband? Man sees it as a opportunity to satisfy an external need. God says what they need is internal...which is Him. "Seek First the Kingdom of God and all these things will be added unto you". Give the fatherless and widows what they truly need and they will never thirst, or hunger, or go naked. (Spiritually). Then God becomes their Father.

"Study to show thyself approved"
Not approved in that you are all-knowledgeable when it comes to study...but study to show that the Spirit is there to reveal mystery.

Deuteronomy is a great passage to show one needs a new heart of flesh: that new heart comes from God. Then you do see from His perspective, not man's. It is effortless because it is the Spirit that gives Revelation, not man.

 

[Windmill Charge]

His word is first physical, which gets twisted into countless meanings from man's perspective to suit man's agenda. Then the Word is Spirit, and does not get twisted

As you've said, our agenda twists our understanding of what God has said to suit our purpose.

James is talking about practical Christian living, pointing out that true Christianity means caring for the unfortunet, avoiding favouretism, showing our faith by our good deeds etc etc
This could be extended to the nonchristian, but that is forcing the meaning.
In the west with the different government aid schemes this urgency of caringing for the poor is lost.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As you've said, our agenda twists our understanding of what God has said to suit our purpose.

James is talking about practical Christian living, pointing out that true Christianity means caring for the unfortunet, avoiding favouretism, showing our faith by our good deeds etc etc
This could be extended to the nonchristian, but that is forcing the meaning.
In the west with the different government aid schemes this urgency of caringing for the poor is lost.

It is sad that is the only meaning you will accept. Caring for their temporal needs is short lived. It makes the person giving momentarily feel good but a week later they are still hungry, still begging, still in need, still broken. I don't remember how it goes but: give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish...

 

[VictoryinJesus]

As you've said, our agenda twists our understanding of what God has said to suit our purpose.

What purpose would that be? Let's say the scripture is speaking of the physical. Is it wrong to say God is what is needed most?

 

[Windmill Charge]

It is sad that is the only meaning you will accept. Caring for their temporal needs is short lived. It makes the person giving momentarily feel good but a week later they are still hungry, still begging, still in need, still broken. I don't remember how it goes but: give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to fish...

There are rules about how one interprets any document.
One takes in what the whole passage is saying and doesn't take any part out of context.

The verses of James 1
26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
It is clear from verse 26 that James is talking about how we live as a Christian and he goes on to repeat an OT theme in verse 27.
Everything about the book of James is practical down to earth Christian living.
It is not an evangelistic letter.

 

[Taken]

There are rules about how one interprets any document.
One takes in what the whole passage is saying and doesn't take any part out of context.

The verses of James 1
26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
It is clear from verse 26 that James is talking about how we live as a Christian and he goes on to repeat an OT theme in verse 27.
Everything about the book of James is practical down to earth Christian living.
It is not an evangelistic letter.

Agree.

Considering caring for the widowed and orphans:

Wives were not the head of the household.

Wives and children did not provide for the family; For natural needs or Spiritually.

Wives and children were not permitted to attend Temple and hear the Word of God and then Feed the Family Spiritually.

Extended male family were to provide for the widows and children; Feeding their needs, food and shelter and Spiritually: temporarily until another man married her; and he be the husband, head of house, and feed his household; naturally and spiritually;
And the woman, no longer widowed or the children fatherless; thus the harmony of Gods design once again restored to order, as He intended.

God Bless,
Taken

 

[VictoryinJesus]

There are rules about how one interprets any document.
One takes in what the whole passage is saying and doesn't take any part out of context.

The verses of James 1
26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
It is clear from verse 26 that James is talking about how we live as a Christian and he goes on to repeat an OT theme in verse 27.
Everything about the book of James is practical down to earth Christian living.
It is not an evangelistic letter.

"One takes in what the whole passage is saying and doesn't take any part out of context."

Taking in the whole OT and NT there seems to be a recurring theme to "the fatherless" and "widows" and "hungry". But you go with that then.

Psalm 68:5
[5] A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

 

[DPMartin]

it is absolutely true that those not born of God are Fatherless those not betrothed to Christ are betrothed to death hence can be called a widow just as well as it is absolutely true that the Blood of Christ covers the shame of nakedness before God as a raiment does and it is the hungry that Jesus addressed who also spoke those words in Deuteronomy and also said :

Joh_6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

God has called those who went a "whoring" after other gods. that doesn't mean they were sexually active outside of the law.


men speak and see from there own view in the place they are, which is so commonly known and understood, why would anyone think the Lord God would do other wise. what men don't know is what the Lord knows, men already know their own thoughts and views, only an idiot would think the Lord uninformative of the Lord's own view.

hence as James also said that this is the pure religion, did he not? in the case of pure religion in the true sense of what Christianity is as a religion. its about those who are without God the Father and are betrothed to death and those not covered by the blood and those hungry and thirsty for Christ.


feeding the poor may be nice but so does secular governments like the US, they house cloth feed and provide healthcare for the poor. is that a religious fulfillment?