Eze 38 and 39 - When

[Truth7t7]

Chapter 38 begins a prophecy addressed to Gog,

Ezekiel 38:1-3 KJV
1) And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
2) Son of man, set thy face against Gog, the land of Magog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal, and prophesy against him,
3) And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Ezekiel 38:14 KJV
Therefore, son of man, prophesy and say unto Gog, Thus saith the Lord GOD; In that day when my people of Israel dwelleth safely, shalt thou not know it?

In verse 18 it changes to speaking of Gog in the second person, but continues to focus on Gog.

Ezekiel 39:1 KJV
Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

Chapter 39 continue addressed to Gog, prophesying his destruction, and then a subsequent time, following Gog's destruction, when for 7 months they gather the dead, and for 7 years burn the weapons, "and so shall you cleanse the land".

Then in 39:17 a new prophecy begins,

Ezekiel 39:17 KJV
17) And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

This prophecy is addressed to the birds and the beasts, to come and feast.

In the first prophecy,

Ezekiel 38:3-6 KJV
3) And say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:
4) And I will turn thee back, and put hooks into thy jaws, and I will bring thee forth, and all thine army, horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords:
5) Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet:
6) Gomer, and all his bands; the house of Togarmah of the north quarters, and all his bands: and many people with thee.

In the second prophecy,

Ezekiel 39:18-20 KJV
18) Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.
19) And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.
20) Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

In the 1st, a limited group. In the 2nd, the rulers of the earth, and all the men of war.

At the end of the 1st, a 7 month/7 year burying/burning, at the end of the 2nd,

Ezekiel 39:25 KJV
Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ezekiel 38:18-23 KJV
18) And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face.
19) For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel;
20) So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.

Revelation 6:12-17 KJV
12) And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13) And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14) And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15) And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16) And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17) For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

21) And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother.
22) And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.
23) Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD.

Revelation 8:6-7 KJV
6) And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound.
7) The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Gog/Magog invasion of Israel
Followed by 7 months burying, 7 years burning
Armaggedon
Followed by Jesus' return and regathering Israel
Followed by the judgment of the nations.

Much love!

Yes you completely disregard the very simple scripture, the picture seen was a battle that is "Historical" fought with wooden weapons of warfare, bows, arrows, shields, spears, "Long Ago"

You aren't going to take a bow and magically turn it into a modern M-16 rifle, or a spear into a grenade launcher

Much Love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Your opinion is noted. No David, no millennium, no last seven years etc. How deep.

No David on a earthly throne, a false teaching of John N. Darby 1830's better known as Dispensationalism

No 7 years as Darby taught, but 3.5 years that starts when (the man of sin) is revealed in Jerusalem proclaiming to be God

No Millennium, Jesus returns in fire and final Judgement (The End)

 

[marks]

Yes you completely disregard

You needn't reply to my posts. I'm not interested. Thank you!

 

[ewq1938]

Yet they must happen.

No, they don't. The first covenant was replaced by the new covenant so older prophecies can be replaced by newer. That's already happened with many things found in Daniel that contradict things in Rev.

 

[ewq1938]

No Millennium, Jesus returns in fire and final Judgement (The End)

Rev 20 tells us there is a Millennium and Jesus does not come in final judgment. There is a judgment before the Mill in Rev 20, then there is the Mill, then a brief rebellion and then a final judgment. You have the order of events wrong.

 

[Truth7t7]

Rev 20 tells us there is a Millennium and Jesus does not come in final judgment. There is a judgment before the Mill in Rev 20, then there is the Mill, then a brief rebellion and then a final judgment. You have the order of events wrong.

It appears you follow John N. Darby 1830's and his false teachings found in dispensationalism

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End) no millennium following

There Will Be No 1,000 Year Millennial Kingdom Upon This Earth, Jesus Christ Returns In Fire And Final Judgement, Dissolving This Existing Earth By Fire, Immediately After The Tribulation

This Existing Heaven And Earth Will Be (Replaced) By The New Heaven, Earth, Jerusalem, A New Creation, At The Return Of Jesus Christ

(Behold, I Make All Things New)

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

Matthew 24:29-30KJV
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

1 Corinthians 3:13KJV
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

Luke 17:29-30KJV
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-9KJV
7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Malachi 3:2KJV
2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

Psalm 46:6KJV
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

Psalm 50:3KJV
3 Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.

Psalm 97:5KJV
5 The hills melted like wax at the presence of the Lord, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.

Isaiah 66:15KJV
15 For, behold, the Lord will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.

Zechariah 14:12KJV
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Nahum 1:5-6KJV
5 The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein.
6 Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[dad]

Look at where they are burying the dead.

Ezekiel 39:11 KJV
And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

"on the east of the sea"

The Mediterranean is always "the great sea", while "the sea" refers to the Dead Sea. Jesus prophesied the Abomination of Desolation, and warned those in Judea to flee to the wilderness. This means to go east from Jerusalem, towards Jericho, then through Tekoa, the Valley of Blessing, then on into the desert east of the dead sea.

And many think that they will flee to Petra, that God will "nourish the woman 1260 days" there.

So for 7 months there will be a steady stream of trucks going back and forth from the battlefield, where all their weapons are, and "east of the sea", where Israel will flee. Will they be likewise smuggling their fuel to Petra to last them through the 7 years?

Much love!

Using today's geography doesn't cut it. For example mountains will be flattened, land masses like islands move, and etc. There is a new river and valley around Jerusalem for example. So it is possible that a new sea could form in that time or etc etc
We also do not know trucks will operate then. Maybe some change such as an EMP could render them useless.
We do not know that all people fleeing will go east do we? You see there is a lot of speculation in your position.

 

[dad]

No David on a earthly throne, a false teaching of John N. Darby 1830's better known as Dispensationalism

No 7 years as Darby taught, but 3.5 years that starts when (the man of sin) is revealed in Jerusalem proclaiming to be God

No Millennium, Jesus returns in fire and final Judgement (The End)

You affirm your opinion. Fine

 

[dad]

No, they don't. The first covenant was replaced by the new covenant so older prophecies can be replaced by newer. That's already happened with many things found in Daniel that contradict things in Rev.

Say what? You think prophesy might not happen but be 'replaced'??

 

[marks]

Using today's geography doesn't cut it. For example mountains will be flattened, land masses like islands move, and etc. There is a new river and valley around Jerusalem for example. So it is possible that a new sea could form in that time or etc etc
We also do not know trucks will operate then. Maybe some change such as an EMP could render them useless.
We do not know that all people fleeing will go east do we? You see there is a lot of speculation in your position.

Interestingly, in the earthquake of the sixth seal, the mountains and islands are moved from their places. In the earthquake at the end, the mountains and islands are gone.

Speaking of rivers and valleys,

Revelation 12:13-17 KJV
13) And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14) And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15) And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16) And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17) And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Those who heed Jesus' warning, when the see the Abomination of Desolation, and they flee to the wilderness, which to the east (south would be the Negev, for instance), they are crossing the Great Rift Valley, of which the Dead Sea is a part.

It's been talked about in Israel to cut a canal from the Med Sea to the Dead Sea to refill the Dead Sea.

Wings of an eagle, this was used to describe Israel's flight from Egypt, urgent, following severe plagues, maybe the 2 Witnesses? A flood of water to carry her away, the earth opens, there is a fracture in the Great Rift, and the water is swallowed up.

More speculation . . . But this shows you more how I look at narrative prophecy like this.

Much love!

 

[dad]

Interestingly, in the earthquake of the sixth seal, the mountains and islands are moved from their places. In the earthquake at the end, the mountains and islands are gone.

That is interesting. So if the Eze invasion happened while there were still mountains the terrain would be quite different.

Those who heed Jesus' warning, when the see the Abomination of Desolation, and they flee to the wilderness, which to the east (south would be the Negev, for instance), they are crossing the Great Rift Valley, of which the Dead Sea is a part.

I can't disagree with that speculation. However I would leave other possibilities open. What if there was a huge airlift for example that could take a lot of folks out? Who knows? The point is they must flee and flee instantly.

It's been talked about in Israel to cut a canal from the Med Sea to the Dead Sea to refill the Dead Sea.

Wings of an eagle, this was used to describe Israel's flight from Egypt, urgent, following severe plagues, maybe the 2 Witnesses? A flood of water to carry her away, the earth opens, there is a fracture in the Great Rift, and the water is swallowed up.

Right, who knows what miracles God will do to facilitate the flight?

 

[David in NJ]

You affirm your opinion. Fine

There will be no King David return to the Throne.

the LORD Jesus Christ alone is King of kings and LORD of lords = HE alone takes the Throne over Israel and all of Creation.

Collossians 1:16-18
HE/JESUS is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

 

[marks]

There will be no King David return to the Throne.

the LORD Jesus Christ alone is King of kings and LORD of lords = HE alone takes the Throne over Israel and all of Creation.

Collossians 1:16-18
HE/JESUS is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

Jesus is King of Kings, David, under Jesus, will be king of Israel. At least that's what the Bible says, so, whether you believe it or not. And under King David, the 12 Apostles will each judge one of the tribes of Israel.

Much love!

 

[6 Stories]

I had always considered the chapters to refer to a time near the start of the last seven years. The northern invasion and intervention from God. Taking a quick review of the prophesy yesterday, I noticed that the prophesy ends when Jesus returns, it seems.


Ezekiel 39:29
Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord God.

This is not a thread to doubt or debate whether the end time prophesy will happen. It will. No debate possible as far as I am concerned. What we can look at here is timing. One commentator said something like how it is possible if not likely that the terrorist invasion of Israel Oct 7 was a prelude to or first stage of a larger invasion to come from the north. He thought that Eze 38 and 39 was possibly started already. (to his credit he left the possibility open that it was not)

So the question arises what is in the prophesy that pinpoints it to any time before the very end when He returns?

Ezekiel 39:22
So the house of Israel shall know that I am the Lord their God from that day and forward.

To place the invasion before the time all Israel gets saved in the end when they see Him whom they pierced and repent would mean we have the verse above fulfilled before the nation is saved. Right?
I do not think the nation repents and accepts Jesus before the very end.

Going back further in Eze 39 we see that it also is after Jesus returns.

Ezekiel 39:9
And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

In Eze 38 we see this
Ezekiel 38:23
Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations, and they shall know that I am the Lord .

That does not sound like the Tribulation period. Maybe someone can show it does?

Further back in Eze 38 we see this

Ezekiel 38:20

So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground.



This also seems to speak of the great shaking in the very end when mountains come down at His presence! How could that be this year or any other time than the very end of the tribulation?



Even back in Eze 37, the time is set and clear.
Ezekiel 37:23
Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God.

Ezekiel 37:24
And David my servant shall be king over them; and they all shall have one shepherd: they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, and do them.



That is certainly after Jesus returns and they are saved.



So-can anyone make a case that the invasion is some time other than the end of the tribulation? I can't remember why I used to think it was, probably I just took people's word for it.

I view Dan 11:40-43 as the time of the 6th trumpet, the 200 million cavalry marching from the Euphrates River through Israel and Egypt. When the forces reach Jerusalem, they will take away the twice daily lamb sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation, beginning the 3.5 year period of great tribulation.

The tidings out of the east and out of the north in Dan 11:44 describes a rival of antichrist who is found in Ezekiel 38 and 39. Notice how the Libyans and the Ethiopians, who were about to face the 200 million, join forces with the countries to the east and north of Israel. However, rather than fighting each other, the 200 million plus those of Ez 38 and 39 team up to fight against God, gathering at Armageddon. All of these armies become bird food.

Dan 11:40-45
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

 

[dad]

There will be no King David return to the Throne.

the LORD Jesus Christ alone is King of kings and LORD of lords = HE alone takes the Throne over Israel and all of Creation.

Collossians 1:16-18
HE/JESUS is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist. And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.

He will rule with us. That includes ol king David.

 

[dad]

I view Dan 11:40-43 as the time of the 6th trumpet, the 200 million cavalry marching from the Euphrates River through Israel and Egypt. When the forces reach Jerusalem, they will take away the twice daily lamb sacrifice and set up the abomination of desolation, beginning the 3.5 year period of great tribulation.

The tidings out of the east and out of the north in Dan 11:44 describes a rival of antichrist who is found in Ezekiel 38 and 39. Notice how the Libyans and the Ethiopians, who were about to face the 200 million, join forces with the countries to the east and north of Israel. However, rather than fighting each other, the 200 million plus those of Ez 38 and 39 team up to fight against God, gathering at Armageddon. All of these armies become bird food.

Dan 11:40-45
40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over.
41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon.
42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape.
43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps.

44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many.
45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

That makes a lot of sense. The invasion is more or less a part of the final battle of Armageddon. Lots to think about there.

 

[David in NJ]

He will rule with us. That includes ol king David.

Correct

king David is a member of the Household of God

 

[ewq1938]

Say what? You think prophesy might not happen but be 'replaced'??

Older prophecy has already been changed or replaced by newer prophecy. There are several examples in Daniel VS. Revelation.

 

[ewq1938]

It appears you follow John N. Darby 1830's and his false teachings found in dispensationalism

I am post Trib.

The Bible clearly teaches that Jesus returns in fire and final judgement (The End) no millennium following

It does not teach that. The bible has Christ returning, not using fire to kill, doesn't kill everyone, and a Millennium happening after his Coming.

 

[dad]

Older prophecy has already been changed or replaced by newer prophecy. There are several examples in Daniel VS. Revelation.

Name one