Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[amigo de christo]

I don't think the oneness issue is a salvation issue, I prefer to leave that to the external arbiter. I am also not Paul or John. In those times no one had a printed Bible and Gnostic teachings were rampant because of that, Paul and John had to be harsh on that and keep the Gospel pure.

This was not the issue i was speaking about . INTERFAITH IS THE ISSUE . it has come of anti christs
to lead all to anti christ . IT has brought a CHRIST denying love
that DENIES the DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON HIM . LOOK at its leaders . They sound out
That all religoins junk . LOOK at it . And what has it promised them , PEACE N SAFETY . THIS IS HOW to attain
world peace n safety , peace in the middle east . THIS IS a false and wicked solution
of anti christ which has come in under the guise its love, its the way to attain world peace . NO SIR
IT WILL ONLY INCUR the wrath of GOD ALL MIGHTY and of the LAMB upon all who entered into its CHRIST DENYING
convenant . FOR ALL THIS the wrath of GOD will surely come . WE BETTER GET BACK
to preaching the ONLY GOSPEL that saves
and we had better darn sure understand that GOD ,CHRIST , HIS LOVE , WOULD NEVER HONOR SIN

 

[amigo de christo]

So what types of people amigo are of the interfaith movement on this site IYO?

There are those who are and have already bought the lie
and then there are those who are also in grave danger who are already being influenced by it
YET have not yet BOUGHT THE LIE its leading them too .
As far as names . It wont take long for you to figure out its key players .
Prayerfully you will see them and discern them .
IT came in through a guise of love not of GOD but of the world
and it has grown as leaven does . Because not only would many not correct its leaven when it was small
THEY embraced this false love . This judge not correct not , This seeker friendly junk
and it has led to THIS and it will GET WORSE . WE have to get INTO THE BIBLE for ourselves to learn for ourselves .
MANY are not gonna make it . But would rather believe and love a lie .

 

[Wrangler]

This was not the issue i was speaking about . INTERFAITH IS THE ISSUE .

I wish I could electronically ignore or filter out all posts with the INTERFAITH word in it.

It’s ridiculous how every thread, no matter the topic is fodder for you to make the same posts of truisms.

WAR IS BAD
FREEDOM IS GOOD
PRAISE GOD
INTERFAITH IS BAD.

 

[amigo de christo]

I wish I could electronically ignore or filter out all posts with the INTERFAITH word in it.

It’s ridiculous how every thread, no matter the topic is fodder for you to make the same posts of truisms.

WAR IS BAD
FREEDOM IS GOOD
PRAISE GOD
INTERFAITH IS BAD.

Well that didnt take long .
HEY APAK , HERES ONE right here . A big supporter of this interfaith . I dont even have to name names .
THEY will surface .

 

[RLT63]

Appeal to Majority. Just because many believe something it right does not make it so. Heresy is merely not going along with the majority view. To the minority view, trinitarians are the heretics. This is an example of moral relativism.

Moral Absolute. It is the trinitarians who are the heretics according to the teachings of the Bible.

Notice the gap in the statement you quoted. I was talking about being respectful to people who believe differently than you.
I was not claiming that I was right.
Notice I said many will consider you a heretic whereas you said it is the Trinitarians who ARE heretics
Moral absolute

 

[RLT63]

Indeed, trinitarians have a 4th century, manmade gospel, which makes it an IDOL. It is the worst kind of IDOL because it directly contradicts the word of God on point. This is different from other IDOLS, like money or sex. Although they are generally prohibited in Scripture, they are not the anti-truth of the Gospel message, which includes:

there is one God, the Father. And If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.​

To hear a trinitarian, one would think the central message of the Scripture is

there is one God, whose nature is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.​

Comparing these 2 gospels, they are different. The 1st in blue is the original and the 2nd in red came about centuries later, not from God but from man. I've asked trinitarians in this thread if the trinity is a salvation issue. Those who replied (that I saw) said no. To which, I asked then why do you make it seem like it is the central message of the Bible? No answer.
No answer.
No answer.
No answer.
No answer.

I don't. There's your answer

 

[MatthewG]

I was talking about being respectful to people who believe differently than you.

Hey Rlt63, thank you for posting this. It would save a lot of time and infighting. This one of the reasons why I don’t have any reason to discuss the trinity with anyone cause all it is just simply differing beliefs; even so. If someone wants to know why I believe the way I do I can share it with them, but if they don’t accept it. It’s okay. God is dealing with each person in their heart. If they do love God he knows, and they know he loves and cares for them. He loves all of us, but he is always respectful enough to allow us to have our differences. As long as we believe Jesus came died, was buried, and risen again, that’s what matters.

 

[ProDeo]

And now do you want to cover Matthew 7 again as I requested? It might shed light on why one does and can judge according to scripture.

This is what you wrote - judgement and personal attacks, the latter against the forum rules.

It's its kryptonite, indeed, and those who adhere to its poison, who laid it as they please over scripture to please and massage their egos and their idols. That's why folks like J., only understands scripture for the natural, carnal so-called scholarly level, if he can even do that, on a mental level from boastful men of this world, whom he honors and agrees with, as he says. I really want to know what he really agrees with and in whom.

And regarding Matt 7 -

Matt 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged.
Matt 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Matt 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Matt 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?
Matt 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Matt 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

---

So tell me when I ever have attacked you personally and you would have a point.

 

[APAK]

Well that didnt take long .
HEY APAK , HERES ONE right here . A big supporter of this interfaith . I dont even have to name names .
THEY will surface .

amigo: I do not think your definition of interfaith and its growing movement in this century of religion, politics and social issues is what Wrangler is into. You've pegged the wrong guy IMO.

 

[APAK]

This is what you wrote - judgement and personal attacks, the latter against the forum rules.

It's its kryptonite, indeed, and those who adhere to its poison, who laid it as they please over scripture to please and massage their egos and their idols. That's why folks like J., only understands scripture for the natural, carnal so-called scholarly level, if he can even do that, on a mental level from boastful men of this world, whom he honors and agrees with, as he says. I really want to know what he really agrees with and in whom.

And regarding Matt 7 -

Matt 7:1 “Judge not, that you be not judged.
Matt 7:2 For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you.
Matt 7:3 Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?
Matt 7:4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye?
Matt 7:5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
Matt 7:6 “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.

---

So tell me when I ever have attacked you personally and you would have a point.

First, who said you have attacked me. I do not consider anyone truly as attacking me in the real sense even in words on tis site. I believe I'm above all that noise and nuisance. Not that I can get a little annoyed and fire back of course. Things like this do not really bother me and I do not live my life this way at all.
Back to judging..

Let me review verses 1-6 lightly, and in light of the criticism I got from you and others and of course you are entitled to it as I am.

Verses 1-6 – Judge without hypocrisy and avoid angry and violent people​

Verse 1: If we judge others expect to be judged by them also.

This verse has been hijacked and became popular for the non-believers that have twisted this verse to mean we cannot judge anyone, at any time; else we are always self-righteous and hypocritical. As they believe, no person is righteous and unbiased. Non-believers of course rarely ever go beyond quoting the first verse.

Verse 2: If we do judge expect to be judged on the same subject and in the same way.

We should judge without self-righteousness and hypocrisy.

Verses 3-5: If we judge and knowingly have the same issue for this judgment we are potentially hypocrites.

We must be sure we are not judging unfairly and without cause else we shall be judged by the same standard. We judge in a tone suited for the occasion, importance and setting.

Verse 6: We are to move on and not waste our time and effort in sharing the things of God, especially if the person or persons expected to be confronted is already judged/predicted to become angry and even violence.

So, in judging Trinitarians on their false claim about Christ and God expect much pushback.

Have a great Day PD..moving on

 

[Wrangler]

Notice the gap in the statement you quoted. I was talking about being respectful to people who believe differently than you.
I was not claiming that I was right.
Notice I said many will consider you a heretic whereas you said it is the Trinitarians who ARE heretics
Moral absolute

There is nothing disrespectful - moral or otherwise - in talking about absolutes. This thread is not about being respectful but trinitarian logic.

I asked then why do you make it seem like it is the central message of the Bible? No answer.

I don't. There's your answer

This exchange shows how you take things personally. By ‘you’ I was not referring to @RLT63 but trinitarians - and I think you know that.

 

[RLT63]

There is nothing disrespectful - moral or otherwise - in talking about absolutes. This thread is not about being respectful but trinitarian logic.




This exchange shows how you take things personally. By ‘you’ I was not referring to @RLT63 but trinitarians - and I think you know that.

Then why did you quote my post and say "Moral absolute" ?

You asked a question and I answered it. I can't answer for everyone only for myself.
You call this taking things personally?
So I shouldn't answer your questions?
You seem to think that everyone who believes in the Trinity believes the same thing.
That's not the case
You stereotyped them and said they make the Trinity the central message of the Bible.
That's not true, all Trinitarians don't do that, some may.

 

[Wrangler]

Then why did you quote my post and say "Moral absolute" ?

Because we are talking about moral absolutes, not moral relativism.

You asked a question and I answered it. I can't answer for everyone only for myself.
You call this taking things personally?

Yes. The subject is objective and does not depend on individual perspectives. You are reducing an objective topic to subjective.

Suppose the thread topic was life forms at the ocean’s bottom. The answer does not depend on individual POV’s. Otherwise, we are using the same words but speak different languages. HINT: When sentences begin with ‘To me,’ you might be making a subjective statement.

 

[RLT63]

Because we are talking about moral absolutes, not moral relativism.


Yes. The subject is objective and does not depend on individual perspectives. You are reducing an objective topic to subjective.

Suppose the thread topic was life forms at the ocean’s bottom. The answer does not depend on individual POV’s. Otherwise, we are using the same words but speak different languages. HINT: When sentences begin with ‘To me,’ you might be making a subjective statement.

OMG, do you even hear yourself?
You want me to answer for all Trinitarians when I just told you they all don't believe the same thing

 

[Wrangler]

OMG, do you even hear yourself?
You want me to answer for all Trinitarians when I just told you they all don't believe the same thing

Yes. I reject your claim that trinitarianism lacks objective definition. However, I understand you wanting to dodge the scrutiny of what is objectively indefensible.

Feel free to enlighten me. What are all the different variants of trinitarianism? Objectively define your terms, please and thank you. At least, admit they have something in common. Otherwise, you are using the same words but speaking a different language.

 

[RLT63]

Yes. I reject your claim that trinitarianism lacks objective definition. However, I understand you wanting to dodge the scrutiny of what is objectively indefensible.

Feel free to enlighten me. What are all the different variants of trinitarianism? Objectively define your terms, please and thank you. At least, admit they have something in common. Otherwise, you are using the same words but speaking a different language.

There are several different forms of Trinitarianism, including three-self theories, psychological models, social models, and heresies.

• Three-self theories
  These theories hold that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three distinct selves, but not three gods.
  
  
• Psychological models
  These models compare the Godhead to the human psyche, with the Father as the self, the Son as the self-image, and the Spirit as the relationship between the two.
  
  
• Social models
  These models compare the Trinity to the unity of the mind, heart, and will of three people.
  
  
• Modalism
  This heresy teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not distinct personalities, but different modes of God's self-revelation.
  
  
• Tritheism
  This heresy teaches that the divine nature is divided into three parts, or three gods.
  
  
• Docetism
  This heresy teaches that Jesus was a purely divine being who only appeared to be human.
  
  
• Ebionitism
  This heresy teaches that Jesus was a purely human figure with special gifts.
  
  
• Adoptionism
  This heresy teaches that Jesus was born human and later adopted by God.
  
  
• Partialism
  This heresy teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all part of one God.

What is Monarchical Trinitarianism? | The Sacred Faith: Timeless Truths for Modern Minds

Monarchical Trinitarianism, also referred to as the “Monarchy of the Father,” is a theological perspective that asserts the Father as the sole source (or monarch) within the Trinity. This view maintains a clear distinction of roles among the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit while uph...

thesacredfaith.co.uk

Category:Trinitarianism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Marvelloustime]

This was not the issue i was speaking about . INTERFAITH IS THE ISSUE . it has come of anti christs
to lead all to anti christ . IT has brought a CHRIST denying love
that DENIES the DIRE NEED to BELIEVE ON HIM . LOOK at its leaders . They sound out
That all religoins junk . LOOK at it . And what has it promised them , PEACE N SAFETY . THIS IS HOW to attain
world peace n safety , peace in the middle east . THIS IS a false and wicked solution
of anti christ which has come in under the guise its love, its the way to attain world peace . NO SIR
IT WILL ONLY INCUR the wrath of GOD ALL MIGHTY and of the LAMB upon all who entered into its CHRIST DENYING
convenant . FOR ALL THIS the wrath of GOD will surely come . WE BETTER GET BACK
to preaching the ONLY GOSPEL that saves
and we had better darn sure understand that GOD ,CHRIST , HIS LOVE , WOULD NEVER HONOR SIN

Brother @amigo de christo is spotted.

 

[Wrangler]

There are several different forms of Trinitarianism

Which form do you subcribe to? And which form of trinitarianism is taught in Scripture?

 

[RLT63]

Which form do you subcribe to? And which form of trinitarianism is taught in Scripture?

My own form. You can't put me in a box. I base my beliefs on scripture

 

[Aunty Jane]

The wisdom of men HAVE DESTROYED their churches and left them in utter destruction .

It’s not their “wisdom” that has destroyed “Christianity”…..it is the sower of the weeds, whose teachings they adopted gradually, over hundreds of years after the death of the apostles. Once the last books of the Christian Scriptures were penned by the last surviving apostle John…..the “restraint” against the foretold apostasy was removed, (2 Thess 2:6-7) allowing it to flourish….and Christendom was born with the mandate for all Roman citizens to adopt a single state religion…..Roman Catholicism.

That counterfeit church system has been leading “Christians“ down a dark path ever since, introducing all manner of unchristian doctrines which are so ancient and ingrained that many find them to be a barrier to the truth…..which was to be revealed in “the last days” of Satan’s world system.…the time for Christ’s return.

Revelation 18:4-5 contains the command for God’s “people” to “get out of “Babylon the great”….which allows us to see who she is, and why God’s “people“ need to remove themselves from that immoral “city”. Unlike Lot and his family, who were physically taken from Sodom by God’s angels, we must make the choice to leave voluntarily…..to see her and her doctrines for what they are in God’s eyes, and get the heck out of there before God destroys her completely.

It is the “many” who are found to be on the “road to destruction”, and the “few” are found on the “road to life”. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)

So why is interfaith teaching that all religoins , all so called religions are okay and fine with GOD
and that all are coming to GOD . cause the last time i checked
THEM CHRIST DENYING RELIGOINS are CHRIST DENYING RELIGIONS .

You said it….it’s an “interfaith” movement…..not a “Christian” movement. The “wheat and the weeds” were to grow together until the “harvest”, but they would be clearly identified at the harvest time because the weeds at that time would be so distanced from the wheat, that Jesus will be able to say....”I never knew you, depart from me you workers of lawlessness”. (Matt 7:21-23)

Unity with that, NEVER .
HE or she who tries to find common ground with the religoins of satan , AND ALL CHRIST DENYING RELIGOINS are of satan
is one trying to find common ground with satan . VERY grave , BUT VERY TRUE . enough with this judge not correct not stuff
ENOUGH with this false love that HAS done all to try and turn GOD and CHRIST INTO A MINISTIR OF SIN
and that DENIES THE SON . ENOUGH with false love that has come of the world .

Like the Jews who converted to Christianity had to abandon the apostate Jewish system, once they learned from Jesus what God requires of his worshippers, and that his sacrifice was going to set them free from “the curse“ of a law which condemned them every day, sincere Christians too have to abandon an apostate “Christian” system, refusing to accept its doctrines, that were adopted from pagan beliefs and practices.

The “church” system is hopelessly fragmented with no unity at all except in the primary doctrines that they all share and accept without question…strangely, none of them are Biblical, without a lot of misinterpretation.

I think that “denying the son” is not denying his deity but denying his sacrifice as a provision from his Father for the salvation of mankind. It is denying his humanity and substituting another god in the Father’s place.
The trinity is a foreign god….not one taught by Jesus himself and one which dishonors the Father and the son.

Those mentioned in Matt 7:21-23 have no idea that the “Christianity” they practice is an ancient counterfeit. They will offer their excuses to the one they claim as their “Lord”, but they will be rejected.