Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[face2face]

Revelation 20, his kingdom will be on earth for 1,000 years, then Satan will be loosed, there will be a rebellion which Jesus will put down, after that there will be a new heaven and a new earth

I highlighted it red for you.

Read what Paul states then read what Isaiah states.

What is different?

In Romans 11 Paul states this text:

11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. 11:27 And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” Ro 11:26–27.

Now Paul has taken this quote from Isaiah 59

“A protector comes to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their rebellious deeds,” says the Lord.
Is 59:20.

 

[RLT63]

I highlighted it red for you.

Read what Paul states then read what Isaiah states.

What is different?

In Romans 11 Paul states this text:

11:26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: “The Deliverer will come out of Zion; he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. 11:27 And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins.” Ro 11:26–27.

Now Paul has taken this quote from Isaiah 59

“A protector comes to Zion, to those in Jacob who repent of their rebellious deeds,” says the Lord.
Is 59:20.

Differences like this are not uncommon. Look at the differences in the Olivet Discourse in the synoptic gospels

 

[face2face]

Differences like this are not uncommon. Look at the differences in the Olivet Discourse in the synoptic gospels

But what is the difference?

 

[RLT63]

But what is the difference?

I don’t have time or space to answer. I’ll see if I can summarize and come back later

 

[face2face]

Differences like this are not uncommon. Look at the differences in the Olivet Discourse in the synoptic gospels

Did you see what you did just then? you closed learning down - you shut the door on what could be a divine truth. Paul quoted that section of Scripture for a reason and to remain open minded and even asking questions is how we learn of him.

Why does he change Christ the deliver coming to Zion then coming out of Zion?

And this is the issue why so many fail to gain the insights needed to build confidence.

If I asked you to follow the crumbs on this one verse in Romans 11 it would take you to Isaiah 59:20 BUT then what?

Paul has Isaiah in mind - Isaiah has ???? in mind...and so on! The Divine hand working its way through the Word to build in you true visions of things yet to come to pass.

This is Bible Study

F2F

 

[ProDeo]

PD, by the way, do you know the context in which/why this scripture written, for, to...why?

Yes, I do.

This is what you wrote -

It's its kryptonite, indeed, and those who adhere to its poison, who laid it as they please over scripture to please and massage their egos and their idols. That's why folks like J., only understands scripture for the natural, carnal so-called scholarly level, if he can even do that, on a mental level from boastful men of this world, whom he honors and agrees with, as he says. I really want to know what he really agrees with and in whom.

Meaning -

1. J and others please and massage their egos
2. J and others are carnal
3. J and others are boastful men
4. J and other are liars - what he really agrees

 

[ProDeo]

You’re just like JWs and other people who think they are the only ones who have it right.
The arrogance is not a good look
Do people like you and Wrangler have Churches you go to or do you just do your own thing?

Just another cult that claims they have the full truth.

 

[face2face]

Just another cult that claims they have the full truth.

I don’t think it’s fair to say 'full truth.' I believe 'greater truth' would be more accurate.

 

[face2face]

3. J and others are boastful men

Yes, we have certainly taken confidence in the firm knowledge of the true Lord Jesus Christ. And it's fair to say that you have faced the most challenges in these discussions, especially compared to Johann and Redfan, who have withdrawn. So well done for maintaining a fighting spirit, afterall we are told to...

Jude 1:3 "Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints."

The issue we have established in our discussions is we don't have a common salvation because you fail to understand the salvation that is offered in the Lord Jesus Christ and you cannot claim a "faith" which was delivered to the first Saints.

You don't have the Original Gospel!

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

Yes, I do.

This is what you wrote -

It's its kryptonite, indeed, and those who adhere to its poison, who laid it as they please over scripture to please and massage their egos and their idols. That's why folks like J., only understands scripture for the natural, carnal so-called scholarly level, if he can even do that, on a mental level from boastful men of this world, whom he honors and agrees with, as he says. I really want to know what he really agrees with and in whom.

Meaning -

1. J and others please and massage their egos
2. J and others are carnal
3. J and others are boastful men
4. J and other are liars - what he really agrees

Do you think some people use these tactics to close down the other person?

Personally, I think AP was way out of order, unfortunately I too have accused members of the exact thing that he accused Johann of..it’s immaturity and only the Spirit can bring you to understand that, like everyone else, AP has a lot of growing to do in his spirit/ heart..imo.

I find he gets very personal when members disagree with him, as he thinks his truth is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth...been there to, lol...am I judging him, ..no, because I’ve been exactly where he is...I'm trying to help him, I’m not saying we don’t have old man moments of course we do...yet there are moments and there are MOMENTS if you get my meaning.

 

[ProDeo]

I don’t think it’s fair to say 'full truth.' I believe 'greater truth' would be more accurate.

Although many of their eschatological teachings have changed over the years,[47] Jehovah's Witnesses have consistently claimed to be the only true religion.[48] Based on their interpretation of Revelation 18:2-24, Jehovah's Witnesses believe all other religions are part of "Babylon the Great", a "world empire of false religion" under the control of Satan. Consequently, they refuse all ecumenical relations with other religious denominations.[49]

Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[face2face]

Although many of their eschatological teachings have changed over the years,[47] Jehovah's Witnesses have consistently claimed to be the only true religion.[48] Based on their interpretation of Revelation 18:2-24, Jehovah's Witnesses believe all other religions are part of "Babylon the Great", a "world empire of false religion" under the control of Satan. Consequently, they refuse all ecumenical relations with other religious denominations.[49]

Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I'm not a JW Pro though you know a Harlot exists and she has many daughters? Who do you think these could be?

 

[ProDeo]

Do you think some people use these tactics to close down the other person?

Personally, I think AP was way out of order, unfortunately I too have accused members of the exact thing that he accused Johann of..it’s immaturity and only the Spirit can bring you to understand that, like everyone else, AP has a lot of growing to do in his spirit/ heart..imo.

I find he gets very personal when members disagree with him, as he thinks his truth is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth...been there to, lol...am I judging him, ..no, because I’ve been exactly where he is...I'm trying to help him, I’m not saying we don’t have old man moments of course we do...yet there are moments and there are MOMENTS if you get my meaning.

Indeed, we all have our moments as you say, but when back to your senses, simply make an apology.

 

[face2face]

@ProDeo, there's a principle I learned early on about my God: He shows mercy to whom He chooses. If you’re diligent in seeking Him, I am confident that you can find Him.

Isaiah 55:6: "Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near."

But when you pray, ensure you recognize that He is a singular, all-powerful God—the Creator of all things, including the Lord Jesus Christ. Look to the Master's example for guidance on how to communicate with Him, and observe how Christ worshipped in spirit and truth.

If you do this you will be lead to Him

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

Proverbs 3:5-6 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. (Read More...)

Psalms 32:8 - I will instruct thee and teach thee in the way which thou shalt go: I will guide thee with mine eye.

John 16:13 - Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come

 

[Ritajanice]

Indeed, we all have our moments as you say, but when back to your senses, simply make an apology.

I have never demanded an apology..".plus it must come freely from the heart, it can’t be forced or manipulated into being...( we can’t play on people’s emotions to get an apology)
An apology isn’t important to me, change in the heart is more beneficial imo.
Did Jesus ever get an apology by those who ridiculed him?

 

[ProDeo]

I have never demanded an apology..".plus it must come freely from the heart, it can’t be forced or manipulated into being...( we can’t play on people’s emotions to get an apology)
An apology isn’t important to me, change in the heart is more beneficial imo.
Did Jesus ever get an apology by those who ridiculed him?

I don't demand an apology, I was speaking of myself when I have behaved bad in retrospect.

 

[APAK]

Yes, I do.

This is what you wrote -

It's its kryptonite, indeed, and those who adhere to its poison, who laid it as they please over scripture to please and massage their egos and their idols. That's why folks like J., only understands scripture for the natural, carnal so-called scholarly level, if he can even do that, on a mental level from boastful men of this world, whom he honors and agrees with, as he says. I really want to know what he really agrees with and in whom.

Meaning -

1. J and others please and massage their egos
2. J and others are carnal
3. J and others are boastful men
4. J and other are liars - what he really agrees

Pretty good PD. and top marks, and only if you included the full context of my remarks that are scattered a few posts back currently laid out, and invisible in your four very simple conclusive statements where you could run a semi through all of them and make what you want them to say, as has already happens from the peanut gallery that 'I was out of line' etc. You don't listen to gossip now do you PD? Very bad indeed.

Remember PD Context is King!!. And most Trinitarians lack this insight. Do you know it's kryptonite for them when having to even look at more that a verse or two to explain everything is the Trinity? Oh yes, I already spoke about the anti-superman ingredients now didn't I.

And now do you want to cover Matthew 7 again as I requested? It might shed light on why one does and can judge according to scripture.

 

[Wrangler]

When you attack the Trinity ... many that will consider you a heretic.

Appeal to Majority. Just because many believe something it right does not make it so. Heresy is merely not going along with the majority view. To the minority view, trinitarians are the heretics. This is an example of moral relativism.

Moral Absolute. It is the trinitarians who are the heretics according to the teachings of the Bible.

 

[Wrangler]

You don't have the Original Gospel!

Indeed, trinitarians have a 4th century, manmade gospel, which makes it an IDOL. It is the worst kind of IDOL because it directly contradicts the word of God on point. This is different from other IDOLS, like money or sex. Although they are generally prohibited in Scripture, they are not the anti-truth of the Gospel message, which includes:

there is one God, the Father. And If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.​

To hear a trinitarian, one would think the central message of the Scripture is

there is one God, whose nature is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever.​

Comparing these 2 gospels, they are different. The 1st in blue is the original and the 2nd in red came about centuries later, not from God but from man. I've asked trinitarians in this thread if the trinity is a salvation issue. Those who replied (that I saw) said no. To which, I asked then why do you make it seem like it is the central message of the Bible? No answer.
No answer.
No answer.
No answer.
No answer.