Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[RLT63]

LOL. Another trinitarian tried to do this projection. Biblical unitarians accept the teachings of Scripture, there is one God, the Father, Jesus is a man, God’s name is YHWH.

Trinitarians reject the explicit teachings of the Bible and invent and reach at every turn. When it comes to reaching likewise at how verses go against the trinity IDOL.

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When it comes to John 1 distort, deny and dodge

 

[RLT63]

You don’t want to see.

See what? In Genesis God said we are like him. Does that mean we are Gods?
He also said we are made in his image, not angels.
What I've seen so far is conjecture and doing what you are always claiming that Trinitarians do

 

[RLT63]

Willful ignorance

What am I supposed to see?

 

[Wrangler]

When it comes to John 1 distort, deny and dodge

Profound projection. John 1:45 is literal affirmation that Jesus is the man among the people of Israel chosen by God that Moses told them about that God would put his words in that man’s mouth.

 

[RLT63]

Profound projection. John 1:45 is literal affirmation that Jesus is the man among the people of Israel chosen by God that Moses told them about that God would put his words in that man’s mouth.

In John 1 Jesus is the Word that was with God and was God, who became flesh and dwelt among us.
The plain reading of the text cannot be construed to mean anything else

 

[Wrangler]

In John 1 Jesus is the Word

No, he’s not and just ignore what I wrote about Moses.

 

[RLT63]

No, he’s not and just ignore what I wrote about Moses.

Willfull ignorance on your part. It says he was the one John the Baptist spoke of who became flesh and dwelt among us.
There's no one else that could be

 

[GodsGrace]

No, he’s not and just ignore what I wrote about Moses.

Hi Wrangler,
I just want to be a part of the longest thread I've ever seen.

So, I have to repeat and have to tell you that you're not Christian but are following a man named Jesus instead.
It would have been interesting to read what you wrote about Moses, but I probably will have a different understanding,
so OK.

 

[Wrangler]

Willfull ignorance on your part. It says he was the one John the Baptist spoke of who became flesh and dwelt among us.
There's no one else that could be

We’ve done numerous laps on this false claim by trinitarians. Two questions:

1. Did you read the thread on Houtos means this (not he)?
2. If the claim that Jesus is God incarnate is correct, why did John not put it in his purpose statement of 20:31?

 

[RLT63]

We’ve done numerous laps on this false claim by trinitarians. Two questions:

1. Did you read the thread on Houtos means this (not he)?
2. If the claim that Jesus is God incarnate is correct, why did John not put it in his purpose statement of 20:31?

Because he put it in John 1 and I know what Houtos means

 

[Aunty Jane]

1: The Bible Teaches That There Is One True God

Jesus’ divinity is part of the doctrine of the Trinity.

Let’s get some things straight right off the bat….for all the trinitarians…..who are not students of the Bible but only students of theology….

Jesus’ “divinity” is not “deity”…..being “divine” means he is from God, not that he is God.

The meaning of “theos” (god) in the Greek Scriptures is….

1. “a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities”

It can also mean….

1. “spoken of the only and true God
   1. refers to the things of God
   2. his counsels, interests, things due to him
2. whatever can in any respect be likened unto God, or resemble him in any way
   1. God's representative or viceregent
      1. of magistrates and judges” (Strongs)

So just restricting the meaning of “theos” to mean only “God” (with a capital “G”) is just the first error.
There are many more, that are not apparent if you only have the trinitarian view.

This is important to understand because many objectors to the deity of Jesus misunderstand what Christians believe about the Trinity. Christians believe what the Bible teaches—that there is only one true and living God (Deuteronomy 6:4; cf. 1 Corinthians 8:6).

The Shema (Deut 6:4) was recited by the Israelites on a regular basis because their God alone was unique….there was only one of him…hence the term “monotheism”…..ONE GOD.
Only pagans had multiple gods. When Israel tried to serve foreign gods, they were punished.

Jesus did not come to introduce a different God to the one he knew and worshipped himself….a God whose status was never to be shared with any other living being (Exodus 20:3)….yet, as foretold, apostate Christianity presented a foreign god in concept, gradually to their people in the early centuries….so by the time of the establishment of the Roman church, it was accepted without question and only made official “church” doctrine in the 4th century.

How does a confirmed Bible truth….the subservience of the son to his God and Father, become so distorted? Satan is the master deceiver….he slowly introduced the idea until it became widely accepted, but it took centuries to accomplish that….and it was not introduced without dissent.

2: The Bible Teaches That Jesus Pre-Existed Before The World Was

True….but for how long? No question that he existed before the creation of the material world, because we have Job‘s confirmation from God that the angels were applauding the material creation. (Job 38:4-7)
Col 1:15-17 confirms it also….as the son was the “firstborn of ALL creation”.

The New Testament in several passages clearly teaches that Jesus existed in eternity past before his birth in Bethlehem.

And here you use the word “eternity” with no scriptural support at all. Jesus had a beginning in the past, but only Yahweh is eternal, which means “no beginning and no end”.

Christ’s human birth in Bethlehem was a transfer of his life force in heaven to the womb of a human woman in order to become the redeemer of mankind.
Jesus did not need to be “God” in order to redeem the human race. All he needed to be was “sinless” and God made sure that no human DNA from Adam was in his perfect son.

Genesis 1:1 tells us, “In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.” In John 1:1 we read the same words, “In the beginning.”8 John informs us in John 1:1 that in the beginning was the Word (logos) and that the Word was not only with God but was God. This Word is the one who brought all things into being at creation (John 1:3). John 1:1 teaches that the Word is eternal, the Word has had an eternal relationship with the Father, and the Word as to His nature is deity.

What is this the “beginning” of? If Yahweh is eternal then he has always existed…..but creation had a “beginning” and the the angels pre-existed that material creation. The son of God is “the beginning of God’s creation” as Rev 3:14 plainly states. Only trinitarians ignore so much scripture to support their doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

you're not Christian

Yes, I am a Christian. Trinitarians falsely equate the 2.

following a man named Jesus instead.

Yes, I follow a man named Jesus who is anointed by YHWH. YHWH gave this anointed man all authority in heaven and Earth.

It would have been interesting to read what you wrote about Moses

Read Deut. 28:15-18. Compare to John 1:45. Then read the whole chapter 1 from this point of view, this prophecy fulfilled, a man among the Israeli people that God chose to put his words in this man’s mouth.

The word of God must be put in the mouth of a man of Israel in order for the prophecy Moses wrote about to be affirmed in John 1:45.

 

[Wrangler]

Because he put it in John 1 and I know what Houtos means

If you knew what Houtos means, you would not make this claim.

In John 1 Jesus is the Word

THIS is with God at the beginning, not he (Jesus).

 

[Wrangler]

became flesh

God does not become as he is unchanging and has no flesh.

 

[MonoBiblical]

I don't see the connection. Being made in the image of angels and becoming like them in heaven has nothing to do with the Godhead

The angels are the sons of the God. Perhaps, I don't know what you were saying.

 

[RLT63]

God does not become as he is unchanging and has no flesh.

Jhn 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory,the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

WHO ELSE IS THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER.?

 

[RLT63]

If you knew what Houtos means, you would not make this claim.

THIS is with God at the beginning, not he (Jesus).

He is as justifiable as this, Houtos has many meanings not just the one you choose

 

[MonoBiblical]

When it comes to John 1 distort, deny and dodge

Usually, I translate consistently, but what I know would change English translations dramatically.

 

[Wrangler]

Jhn 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh

Right! Not God was made flesh! And why do you gore my 2nd question?

1. Did you read the thread on Houtos means this (not he)?
2. If the claim that Jesus is God incarnate is correct, why did John not put it in his purpose statement of 20:31

 

[Aunty Jane]

What was he in when he walked away from His own tomb?

Great question!
If Jesus gave up his flesh and blood to die for humanity, why would he take it back?

What was Jesus when he walked away from his tomb?….
Peter tells us that…”Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18)

So his body was sacrificed, and his Father gave him a new spiritual body in order for him to return to heaven. Flesh and blood cannot exist there. (1 Cor 15:50)
So who was the “man” who appeared to his apostles and to so many others for 40 days after his resurrection? The clue is the word “appear”.

Jesus was resurrected as a spirit, but like other spirit beings in the past, he could materialize a human body at will. This is why so many did not recognize him. It is also the reason why Jesus did not stay with any of his apostles during that 40 days, like he had done in the previous three and a half years…..but it says that he “appeared” to them.
On the occasion mentioned in Luke 24, he approach two of the disciples on the road.….but they did they recognize him. It wasn’t until he broke the bread that they realized it was him, and he vanished right in front of them. (Luke 24:13-35) See also John 20:11-21.

This is why we need to read the whole Bible and not just cherry picked verse from Christendom’s theology….
Unless you have the whole picture, you will be steered in a very wrong direction.
Its the majority who are found on the road to destruction….only the “few” who have not strayed from the right path are on the road to,life, cramped and narrow as it is….. (Matt 7:13-14; 21-23)