Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Dan Clarkston]

Please don't say this kind of things.

Did he hit a nerve there?

 

[ProDeo]

This is strong delusion - you have it bad Johann!

You have been exposed to the Apostles' teachings regarding the true nature of Christ, yet you remain deliberately unaware or dismissive of it.

Why this insult?

 

[face2face]

May the Lord Jesus Christ be the judge between us and your comrades-APAK is on ignore, for good reason, you are next.

J.

You are a self fulfilling prophecy - can you see now why the crucifixion is foolishness to the Greeks? God didn't teach His people truth through grammar and syntax! Your contribution to this thread and topic has already run its course; I was slow to recognize the signs.

I'd be relieved if you put me on ignore!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Google the meaning of "plurality within unity" yourself and you'll see that I'm right.

You restrict plurality to your Trinity definition (which is unbiblical!), whereas the concept of God working through the Elohim is Biblical and represents countless agents. Consider the Name-Bearing Angel, or figures like Michael, Gabriel, and all the angels.

It's your MO to disregard how God works through angels, people and even His Son.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Please don't say this kind of things.

If it's true and it causes you to question why it's true, then it must be said for your own benefit. Many in this thread are opposing themselves... and you are one of them.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Why this insult?

Consider the facts.

You have been shown many references to the true nature of Christ and not only have you been unable to speak to any of those verses, you remain deliberately unaware of them.

How can I draw to this conclusion?

You continue to repeat the same mistake without learning the Apostles' teachings, which suggests either willful ignorance or deliberate unawareness—both of which indicate a person who only wants to see things through their own perspective.

Now you can prove this is not the case by dealing with the evidence which has been bountiful in this discussion or move on.

F2F

 

[MonoBiblical]

I’m realizing I do need to amend the pillars the trinity must violate at every turn to include implications from logic, deductive AND inductive reasoning.

Here @Johann demands explicit Scripture to state what is already implied:

1. If Jesus is the son of God, that implies he is not God.
2. If the Father is the only true God, it implies the trinitarian god is false.
3. If true worshippers worship the father, it implies worshipping the trinity god is false.
4. If God is greater than Jesus, it implies inequality.
5. Given that Jesus sits at the RH of God implies he is NOT God (for one does not sit on their own side).
6. Given that Jesus’ authority does not include God, because God gave him his authority, it implies that Jesus is not God.
7. In Rev 1:1, God gives Jesus the revelation. This implies the resurrected Jesus, sitting at God’s throne in heaven is STILL not God.

He is god with a lower-case g.

 

[face2face]

He is god with a lower-case g.

He is no-god man!

 

[face2face]

He is god with a lower-case g.

plenty of gods in training though!

 

[Johann]

I miss my brother @marks-pray him and his family is well.

Johann.

 

[ProDeo]

I miss my brother @marks-pray him and his family is well.

Johann.

What is happening with him?

 

[face2face]

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back for yourself part of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? Why is it that you have contrived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to man but to God.”.

Let me help you here...

Ananias may not have realized that his actions were a lie to God, but all sin, whether large or small, is a violation of the divine law of obedience and truth (see Jas. 2:10; Psa. 51:4). He had intended to offer to God and had apparently made this clear to the ecclesia (Acts 5:1), but then changed his mind and secretly kept part for himself (v. 2). To ignore this deception would have undermined God's power and authority, symbolized here as the "Holy Spirit" (Jn. 6:63). The Holy Spirit serves as a heart-searcher (Acts 1:24), probing the motives and emotions in line with the divine Word (Heb. 4:12).

God cannot be separated from His Spirit Power Pro! It is Him, comes from Him and is an expression of His Will and Purpose.

If you thought this section teaches the HS as a person you are mistaken.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@ProDeo

This is one of the questions I had for Johann but he couldnt provide an answer, maybe you would like to give it a try?

It was the power of the Most High that "overshadowed" Mary (Luke 1:35). However, if the Holy Spirit were considered a Person within the Godhead, then it would be the Holy Spirit, rather than the Father, who would be the true father of Jesus.

Correct?

F2F

 

[Johann]

What is happening with him?

I'm not sure, but I deeply appreciate his posts and the opportunity to learn from him, brother.

J.

 

[face2face]

I'm not sure, but I deeply appreciate his posts and the opportunity to learn from him, brother.

J.

This is your problem, confirmation bias! Learn from God's Word Johann and don't invest your salvation in the wisdom of men.

F2F

 

[Johann]

This is your problem, confirmation bias! Learn from God's Word Johann and don't invest your salvation in the wisdom of men.

F2F

1Co 12:14 for also the body is not one member, but many;
1Co 12:15 if the foot may say, 'Because I am not a hand, I am not of the body;' it is not, because of this, not of the body;
1Co 12:16 and if the ear may say, 'Because I am not an eye, I am not of the body;' it is not, because of this, not of the body?
1Co 12:17 If the whole body were an eye, where the hearing? if the whole hearing, where the smelling?
1Co 12:18 and now, God did set the members each one of them in the body, according as He willed,
1Co 12:19 and if all were one member, where the body?
1Co 12:20 and now, indeed, are many members, and one body;
1Co 12:21 and an eye is not able to say to the hand, 'I have no need of thee;' nor again the head to the feet, 'I have no need of you.'
1Co 12:22 But much more the members of the body which seem to be more infirm are necessary,
1Co 12:23 and those that we think to be less honourable of the body, around these we put more abundant honour, and our unseemly things have seemliness more abundant,
1Co 12:24 and our seemly things have no need; but God did temper the body together, to the lacking part having given more abundant honour,
1Co 12:25 that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same anxiety for one another,
1Co 12:26 and whether one member doth suffer, suffer with it do all the members, or one member is glorified, rejoice with it do all the members;
1Co 12:27 and ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
1Co 12:28 And some, indeed, did God set in the assembly, first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly teachers, afterwards powers, afterwards gifts of healings, helpings, governings, divers kinds of tongues;
1Co 12:29 are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all powers?
1Co 12:30 have all gifts of healings? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
1Co 12:31 and desire earnestly the better gifts; and yet a far excelling way do I shew to you:
YLT.

 

[ProDeo]

Consider the facts.

You have been shown many references to the true nature of Christ and not only have you been unable to speak to any of those verses, you remain deliberately unaware of them.

And there you go again, I can say the same about you, but I don't because a) it's not Christ like, b) I can't know for sure and c) I believe your are honest about your interpretation of the Scripture, despite being in error.

A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.

You continue to repeat the same mistake without learning the Apostles' teachings, which suggests either willful ignorance or deliberate unawareness—both of which indicate a person who only wants to see things through their own perspective.

Now you can prove this is not the case by dealing with the evidence which has been bountiful in this discussion or move on.

F2F

Now please answer post 1682 if you fully understand the Godhead and indeed move on.

 

[APAK]

I'm not sure, but I deeply appreciate his posts and the opportunity to learn from him, brother.

J.

Well if he's sick or his family then I hope marks and family get well quickly. However, learning any solid truth in scripture from him is a lost cause. He cannot explain in any depth, his truth....he's a Trinitarian as you.

 

[Wrangler]

Just don't call me a liar again.

Be humble. I didn’t call you a liar. You can be wrong without lying.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

APAK is on ignore, for good reason, you are next.

If you put someone on ignore, you won't be able to see how sad they are to learn they are being ignored!