Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[Marvelloustime]

Howdy wrangler , ready to make some money , BET ON AMIGO that he will expose intefaith . LOL
feed them five hungry kiddos . but better would it have been , had you just joined me and helped me in this fight
to contend for the one true faith .

@amigo de christo

 

[Wrangler]

It's only logical to believe that if the scripture says God sent His Son, therefore God had a Son to send.

Do you know what eisegesis is? Imagine reading whatever you want into text.

You use the word believe but suppose is more precise. Supposition is not a solid foundation for doctrine.

 

[Wrangler]

I don't claim that syllogisms in logic need explanation IF THEY ARE VALID. I claim that yours was INvalid due to the non-biological sense of your P1 and P2

P1 and P2 are both true, affirmed by Scripture. But since you bring it up, in what sense does father mean brother? And in what sense does brother mean father? This invokes the Law of Mutual Exclusion, regardless of a biological or non-biological sense of these words.

 

[Wrangler]

Then Jesus wasn't the "only begotten son" of begotten means created right?

Of course not! See Genesis 6:1-4. Not only were there other sons of God before Jesus, after him, we too are sons and daughter of God. See John 1:12

Another IDOL destroyed. There cannot be all these sons of God running around but one of them is the only begotten son. There are different senses of words and it doesn't make us all God.

 

[Taken]

You must be tired doing all these laps. The trinity is not in the Bible. No point doing laps on ground already covered.

Not a mystery..
The Trinity is a Representation of the ONE Ever Existing God Almighty.

Matt 18:
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying…
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of :
1)the Father,
2)and of the Son,
3)and of the Holy Ghost:


Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Wrangler]

Not a mystery..
The Trinity is a Representation of the ONE Ever Existing God Almighty.

Matt 18:
[18] And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying…
[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of :
1)the Father,
2)and of the Son,
3)and of the Holy Ghost:


Glory to God,
Taken

This is used as if it is a trinity verse. It doesn't say anything about the nature of God or that believing a tri-une nature of God is necessary to be saved.

 

[Taken]

P1 and P2 are both true, affirmed by Scripture. But since you bring it up, in what sense does father mean brother? And in what sense does brother mean father? This invokes the Law of Mutual Exclusion, regardless of a biological or non-biological sense of these words.

Biological is relative to humans Related by Blood…

The Lord God Almighty IS Spirit without Blood.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[RLT63]

Of course not! See Genesis 6:1-4. Not only were there other sons of God before Jesus, after him, we too are sons and daughter of God. See John 1:12

Another IDOL destroyed. There cannot be all these sons of God running around but one of them is the only begotten son. There are different senses of words and it doesn't make us all God.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

 

[Wrangler]

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Yup. Doesn't change the begotten sons of Genesis 6:1-4 and John 1:12. 1st borns are all the only begotten - until other children come around.

 

[Taken]

This is used as if it is a trinity verse. It doesn't say anything about the nature of God or that believing a tri-une nature of God is necessary to be saved.

You do not have to believe IN God. iN Jesus or IN the Holy Spirit.. nor would your unbelief….gain you the Lambs Baptism…

Were you baptized?
If so, in whose Name?

Were you saved?
If so, How many times?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[RLT63]

Yup. Doesn't change the begotten sons of Genesis 6:1-4 and John 1:12. 1st borns are all the only begotten - until other children come around.

It says Sons of God, it does not say begotten. God has many sons but only one begotten Son

 

[Wrangler]

Were you saved?
If so, How many times?

Many times. Daily.

 

[David in NJ]

Do you know what eisegesis is? Imagine reading whatever you want into text.

You use the word believe but suppose is more precise. Supposition is not a solid foundation for doctrine.

Imagine reading whatever you want into text.

jw/watchtower religion NWT = "the Word was a god"

Just imagine...............whatever you want into text = idolatry

 

[Wrangler]

It says Sons of God, it does not say begotten.

Does it have to say begotten? You are a son. It is ambiguous whether you were begotten or not?

 

[RLT63]

Does it have to say begotten? You are a son. It is ambiguous whether you were begotten or not?

If you ignore John 3:16

 

[wooddog]

Right you are @Lizbeth and the Triune Godhead is biblical-see if you agree with this.


Arians (or Arianism)
Arians are followers of the heretical teachings of Arius, a 4th-century Christian priest who denied the full divinity of Jesus Christ, asserting that Jesus was a created being and not co-eternal with the Father. According to Arianism, Jesus was seen as a divine being but not truly God in the same way as the Father. This view was condemned by the First Council of Nicaea (325 AD), which affirmed the full deity of Christ.

Key reference: John 1:1-14 affirms that the Word (Jesus) was with God and was God, contradicting Arian views.

2. Unitarians
Unitarians are individuals or groups that reject the doctrine of the Trinity, specifically denying the full deity of Jesus Christ. They believe in the oneness of God and view Jesus as a great prophet or teacher but not as God Himself. They hold that God is one person (the Father), and Jesus is not part of the divine essence.
Key reference: John 14:28 (Jesus says, "The Father is greater than I"), but this verse must be understood in the context of the incarnation and Jesus' role in salvation, not as a denial of His deity.

3. Jehovah's Witnesses
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus is not God but rather the Son of God, a created being (the Archangel Michael) who was later incarnated as Jesus. They deny the Trinity and assert that Jesus is distinct from God the Father, rejecting His full divinity.
Key reference: Colossians 2:9 teaches that "in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily," which contradicts Jehovah’s Witnesses' view of Jesus.

4. Christadelphians
The Christadelphians hold a belief similar to that of Unitarians, rejecting the full deity of Jesus Christ. They view Jesus as the Son of God, but not as divine or co-equal with the Father. They believe Jesus was fully human and did not pre-exist before His birth.
Key reference: John 1:1-14 affirms the pre-existence and divinity of Christ, in contrast to Christadelphian views.

5. Oneness Pentecostals (or Jesus Only Movement)
While Oneness Pentecostals believe in the divinity of Jesus, they reject the traditional doctrine of the Trinity. They believe that God is a single person who manifested Himself as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in different modes, and that Jesus is the full manifestation of God, but not a distinct person within the Trinity.
Key reference: John 10:30 ("I and the Father are one") is often cited to defend the unity of God in Jesus.

6. Docetists (Historical Heresy)

Docetists are individuals who hold the view that Jesus only appeared to be human, but was actually fully divine and not truly incarnate. This was an early heresy in the church, which denied both the humanity and personhood of Jesus Christ. It is a form of Gnosticism that believed the physical world was evil, and thus, Jesus could not have truly taken on a physical body.
Key reference: 1 John 4:2-3 refutes this heresy, stating that those who confess Jesus Christ came in the flesh are of God.

7. Muslims
Muslims also deny the deity of Jesus, believing Him to be a prophet and a servant of Allah but not divine. In Islam, Jesus (Isa) is considered a key figure, but His crucifixion and divinity are denied.
Key reference: John 1:1-14 affirms Jesus' divine nature, which contrasts with Islamic teachings.

8. Modern Denialists
There are also various modern groups or individuals who deny the deity and personhood of Jesus, influenced by liberal theology or secular humanism. These individuals may reject biblical authority altogether or re-interpret Jesus as a moral teacher rather than the incarnate God.


There are also various modern groups or individuals who deny the deity and personhood of Jesus, often influenced by liberal theology or secular humanism. These individuals may reject biblical authority outright or reinterpret Jesus as merely a moral teacher, rather than acknowledging Him as the incarnate God.

Is this not evident, and is it not graphically resurfacing in the ongoing denial of the doctrine of the deity of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ? Moreover, does this not continue to challenge the undeniable truth of Scripture and the perfect coherence of the Triune Godhead?

Keep the faith-we are in the last days sister.

Johann.

Should not Judaism be included in this list?

 

[Johann]

Should not Judaism be included in this list?

Of course-why not, but I have wonderful Messianic friends.

J.

 

[RedFan]

P1 and P2 are both true, affirmed by Scripture. But since you bring it up, in what sense does father mean brother? And in what sense does brother mean father? This invokes the Law of Mutual Exclusion, regardless of a biological or non-biological sense of these words.

Father doesn't MEAN brother, and brother doesn't MEAN father. But father and brother have multiple definitions, including nonbiological ones (like Heb. 2:11). So when you said

Hebrews 2:11 is further proof text that Jesus is NOT God, which is why Trinitarians must get the shackles of logic off their doctrinal back.

The Law of Mutual Exclusion, the bedrock of epistemology, along with The Law of Identity, disproves the trinity.
P1. God is our Father (not our brother).
P2. Jesus is our brother (not our father).
C. Jesus is NOT God.

there is a sense in which God is our father (let's call that sense "God the Father") and in which Jesus is our brother (let's call that sense "God the Son"), yet "Jesus is NOT God" wouldn't be a necessary conclusion. God the Father and God the Son are not mutually exclusive unless (a) they are two Gods, or (b) only one of them is truly God. All I am saying is that neither (a) nor (b) -- either of which might be true (although as a Trinitarian I don't think so) -- can be established just from your syllogism alone. Biologically speaking, yes. In the sense you intend, no.

 

[Wrangler]

Father doesn't MEAN brother, and brother doesn't MEAN father. But father and brother have multiple definitions

That they have different definitions is irrelevant beyond the fact that the terms are mutually exclusive. Therefore, P1 and P2 remain valid. Not sure why you refuse to accept this simple syllogism other than its doctrinal implications.

 

[David in NJ]

Should not Judaism be included in this list?

There are two types of 'Judaism'.
One leads to LIFE and the other leads to death

LORD Jesus Christ is Biblical Judaism Fulfilled = "IAM the WAY the TRUTH and the LIFE, no one comes to the FATHER but thru ME"

rabbinical judaism is that which leads to death, under the law, under sin, under the religion of self-righteousness - Rom 10:1-3

"being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God"


LORD Jesus Christ is Biblical Judaism Fulfilled = "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes."