Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[David in NJ]

Yes, that is exactly what the Scriptures tell us, hence the numerous references throughout Scripture of this (Earth) being a prison planet.


What has been shared is straight out of Scripture. It has nothing to do with organized religions or their doctrines and traditions.


Anyone genuinely keeping the two Great Commandments (Mark 12:29-31), upon which all the others hang, cannot possibly break any of the other Commandments and Statutes, which make up the National, Moral Law that each of us has promised to live by, but never have.

What about this commandment - Exodus 31:12-17

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’

 

[A Freeman]

What about this commandment - Exodus 31:12-17

And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: ‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.’

Thank-you. Yes, we should be keeping all of the Sabbaths.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, that is exactly what the Scriptures tell us, hence the numerous references throughout Scripture of this (Earth) being a prison planet.


What has been shared is straight out of Scripture. It has nothing to do with organized religions or their doctrines and traditions.


Anyone genuinely keeping the two Great Commandments (Mark 12:29-31), upon which all the others hang, cannot possibly break any of the other Commandments and Statutes, which make up the National, Moral Law that each of us has promised to live by, but never have.

Anyone genuinely keeping the two Great Commandments (Mark 12:29-31), upon which all the others hang, cannot possibly break any of the other Commandments and Statutes, which make up the National, Moral Law that each of us has promised to live by, but never have.

This i absolutely believe.

 

[David in NJ]

Thank-you. Yes, we should be keeping all of the Sabbaths.

Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

 

[Taken]

Many people find the doctrine of the Holy Spirit confusing. Is the Holy Spirit a force, a person, or something else? What does the Bible teach?

The Bible provides many ways to help us understand that the Holy Spirit is truly a person—that is, He is a personal being, rather than an impersonal thing. First, in almost every instance, pronouns used in reference to the Spirit are he and him, not it.

Monkey wrench…

John 1:
[32] And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

1Pet 1:
[11] Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

* And the Word of God A holy “thing”.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

I think trying to explain The Lord God Almighty as BEING THREE Persons.. creates a conundrum …a dilemma … To further explain HOW Three Persons ARE ONE God…..(it MAKES NO sense to a Human man, trying to parallel their own singular self … to a multifaceted God….nor is spiritual things supposed to make sense to a carnal mind)…thus the dilemma.

God IS “A” HOLY SPIRIT….
WHO “IS”;
Omnipresent
Omnipotent
Omniscience

He HAS, CAN, DOES, SHALL…
Appear at ANY Time He Chooses.
Appear in ANY Likeness He Chooses.
Be Called, ANY Name, Title, Description, He chooses.

The OT delves into “holy things” that applies To the Whole of God.

Glory to God
Taken

 

[Aunty Jane]

I think you will find that there are different levels of faith in the word..check it out.

The JWS are spot on when it comes to Jesus... @Aunty Jane explained it well, imo..certainly resonated with my spirit...

The truth will resonate only with those whom God invites to understand what is written in his word. (John 6:44, 65)
No one will understand without God inviting them to….what does this result in?

Matt 7:13-14….
”Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14  whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.”

Picture in your mind what it says here (Jesus’ own words). There are two roads….one leading to life and the other to certain death….but there is a gate…a “narrow” one…that leads off to a “cramped” road, one filled with obstacles and roadblocks, yet those who stay on this difficult path are sure to reach their desired destination, with God’s help. The one setting up the roadblocks is thwarted because the truth and power of God’s spirit keeps them moving forward through the difficulties. These ones will be “few” because it takes endurance to stay on a difficult path. (Matt 24:13) These ones would be decried as heretics and condemned to “hell” by the fear mongers, those ones happily and ignorantly traveling the other road…..

So, what about this other road? There appears to be a large gate leading on to this road, and the “many” who are travelling it don’t see any need whatsoever to leave this “broad and spacious“ path. It has a few traffic lights to ease the congestion, but by and large these “many” (the majority of those who identify as “Christians”) are content to stay on this path, happily deceived by the devil and accepting his counterfeit “Christian” faith, as truth…..just as Jesus predicted. These are the “weeds” that Jesus said would overtake the world and take worshippers away from God by lying to them…just as he did in Eden.

Satan’s deceptions are not obvious otherwise he would not have such great success.

The scripture you posted I don’t understand it..

The scripture posted was not understood by the poster…..

“Beloved, although I made every effort to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints. For certain men have crept in among you unnoticed—ungodly ones who were designated long ago for condemnation.
They turn the grace of our God into a license for immorality, and they deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.”

Those “certain men” were identified in the first century, not recently as those who were due to rise up against that apostasy which began as early as the end of the first century. By the time of Roman Emperor Constantine, (over three hundred years after Christ’s death) Christianity had become a sham, weakened shadow of its original self, paving the way for the Emperor (who remained a worshipper of Zeus for his whole life) to introduce Roman Catholicism as the state religion, which was a fusion of pagan Roman sun worship, married to an impotent and corrupted church……it is from this apostate church that all of Christendom emerged. The ‘daughters’ took much of their ‘mother’s’ dirty laundry with them when they left home, but a cleansing was prophesied to take place at “the time of the end“ by Daniel. (Dan 12:9-10; 13-14)
Only at “the time of the end” would Daniel’s words be understood.

We have been in “the time of the end” since the year 1914CE according to Daniel’s prophesy….the very same prophesy that allowed the first century Jews to calculate when Messiah was due to make his appearance In 29CE. They were expecting him, as were those who were awakened before the time of Christ’s return…..a time where a “sign” was identified by world events, because it was Christ’s “presence” that led to all those world events outlined in Matt 24. His “coming” as judge would be at the end of that period where all would observe his manifestation as he “separates the sheep from the goats”. Too late then to make their excuses. (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[A Freeman]

Are you a Seventh Day Adventist?

No. Nor a "Jew". Simply a disciple of Christ.

Don't Seventh Day Adventists spend their Sabbaths in church please? The Sabbath is meant to be a day of rest, apart from the world (with Father), not a time to visit a building where God has told us He doesn't dwell.

 

[David in NJ]

Many people find the doctrine of the Holy Spirit confusing. Is the Holy Spirit a force, a person, or something else? What does the Bible teach?

The Bible provides many ways to help us understand that the Holy Spirit is truly a person—that is, He is a personal being, rather than an impersonal thing. First, in almost every instance, pronouns used in reference to the Spirit are he and him, not it. In this way, the original Greek of the New Testament is explicit in confirming the person of the Holy Spirit. The word for “Spirit” (pneuma) is grammatically neuter and would naturally take neuter pronouns to have grammatical agreement. Yet, in many cases, masculine pronouns are found (e.g., John 15:26; 16:13–14). There is no other way to understand these ”ungrammatical” pronouns related to the Holy Spirit—He is a personal being, a “He.”

Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is a collective reference to one Triune God. Also, we are not to grieve the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 4:30). The Spirit can be sinned against (Isaiah 63:10) and lied to (Acts 5:3). We are to obey Him (Acts 10:19–21) and honor Him (Psalm 51:11).

The personhood of the Holy Spirit is also affirmed by His many works. He was personally involved in creation (Genesis 1:2), empowers God’s people (Zechariah 4:6), guides (Romans 8:14), comforts (John 14:26), convicts (John 16:8), teaches (John 16:13), restrains sin (Isaiah 59:19), and gives commands (Acts 8:29). Each of these works requires the involvement of a person rather than a mere force, thing, or idea.

The Holy Spirit’s attributes also point to His personality. The Holy Spirit has life (Romans 8:2), has a will (1 Corinthians 12:11), is omniscient (1 Corinthians 2:10–11), is eternal (Hebrews 9:14), and is omnipresent (Psalm 139:7). A mere force could not possess all of these attributes, but the Holy Spirit does.

And the personhood of the Holy Spirit is affirmed by His role as the third Person of the Godhead. Only a being who is equal to God (Matthew 28:19) and possesses the attributes of omniscience, omnipresence, and eternality could be defined as God.

In Acts 5:3–4, Peter referred to the Holy Spirit as God, stating, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.” Paul likewise referred to the Holy Spirit as God in 2 Corinthians 3:17–18, stating, “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.”

The Holy Spirit is a person, as Scripture makes clear. As such, He is to be revered as God and serves in perfect unity with Father and Son to lead us in our spiritual lives.

Is the Holy Spirit a person? | GotQuestions.org

Is the Holy Spirit a person? Is the Holy Spirit a force? Is the Holy Spirit the personification of God’s power?

www.gotquestions.org

J.

The Holy Spirit is a person, as Scripture makes clear. As such, He is to be revered as God and serves in perfect unity with Father and Son to lead us in our spiritual lives.

ABSOLUTELY TRUE my Brother - Great Post

You cannot "grieve" a 'force' neither can you "blaspheme" a 'force'

Neither does blaspheming a 'force' cause a person to commit the unforgiveable sin.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes, that is exactly what the Scriptures tell us, hence the numerous references throughout Scripture of this (Earth) being a prison planet.


What has been shared is straight out of Scripture. It has nothing to do with organized religions or their doctrines and traditions.


Anyone genuinely keeping the two Great Commandments (Mark 12:29-31), upon which all the others hang, cannot possibly break any of the other Commandments and Statutes, which make up the National, Moral Law that each of us has promised to live by, but never have.

Anyone genuinely keeping the two Great Commandments (Mark 12:29-31), upon which all the others hang, cannot possibly break any of the other Commandments and Statutes, which make up the National, Moral Law that each of us has promised to live by, but never have.

This i absolutely believe.

What does this mean to you:
But when the Pharisees heard that He had silenced the Sadducees, they gathered together.
Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?”

Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’
This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”

 

[Grailhunter]

Layman question - how are the names of God and Jesus written in the Greek text, with or without capitals.

It is going to come as a shock to you….sorry in advanced. God the Father's was in the scriptures 6,800 times and His name was completely removed and replaced with what we see as God or Lord in your Bibles.

The Greek word in the New Testament that is used for Christ's name is, Ἰησοῦς Iēsous it is not a name it is a Greek word that means healer that is why you do not see Greek people in history named Ἰησοῦς unless they were a doctor. Christ name is Yeshua written ישוע. It is Hebrew and it appears that many never got the point that Miriam His mother would not have given Him a Greek word for a name, or a Greek name for that matter.

No one knows where the name Jesus came from, it just appeared in the 17th century.

If you want a Bible with the names of God the Father and God the Son in them look into some of the Sacred Names Bibles. For me as a theologian it is important to have a Bible with Their names in it.

 

[Johann]

Monkey wrench…

John 1:
[32] And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.

1Pet 1:
[11] Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

* And the Word of God A holy “thing”.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

I think trying to explain The Lord God Almighty as BEING THREE Persons.. creates a conundrum …a dilemma … To further explain HOW Three Persons ARE ONE God…..(it MAKES NO sense to a Human man, trying to parallel their own singular self … to a multifaceted God….nor is spiritual things supposed to make sense to a carnal mind)…thus the dilemma.

God IS “A” HOLY SPIRIT….
WHO “IS”;
Omnipresent
Omnipotent
Omniscience

He HAS, CAN, DOES, SHALL…
Appear at ANY Time He Chooses.
Appear in ANY Likeness He Chooses.
Be Called, ANY Name, Title, Description, He chooses.

The OT delves into “holy things” that applies To the Whole of God.

Glory to God
Taken

Makes it a whole lot easier consulting the grammar, syntax and morphology @Taken.

J.

 

[David in NJ]

No. Nor a "Jew". Simply a disciple of Christ.

Don't Seventh Day Adventists spend their Sabbaths in church please? The Sabbath is meant to be a day of rest, apart from the world (with Father), not a time to visit a building where God has told us He doesn't dwell.

Is this commandment of Exodus 31:12-17 still in effect?
if 'Yes', in what capacity?

 

[Aunty Jane]

Thank-you. Yes, we should be keeping all of the Sabbaths.

There is no Sabbath command for anyone but Israel. It was part of the Law given to Israel but not applied to gentiles.
When Jewish Christians wanted to impose the Law on their gentile brothers, and wanted them circumcised, the elders and apostles in Jerusalem had a meeting to discuss what was becoming a decisive issue…..were gentiles obligated to observe the Law?

They discussed scripture and by means of the holy spirit were led to one conclusion….

Acts 15:25-29….
”we have come to a unanimous decision to choose men to send to you together with our beloved Barʹna·bas and Paul, 26 men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are therefore sending Judas and Silas, so that they also may report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

Certain things from the Law were reiterated to Christians as “necessary” and included in the teachings of Jesus….but observance of the Sabbath was not among them.

 

[David in NJ]

There is no Sabbath command for anyone but Israel. It was part of the Law given to Israel but not applied to gentiles.
When Jewish Christians wanted to impose the Law on their gentile brothers, and wanted them circumcised, the elders and apostles in Jerusalem had a meeting to discuss what was becoming a decisive issue…..were gentiles obligated to observe the Law?

They discussed scripture and by means of the holy spirit were led to one conclusion….

Acts 15:25-29….
”we have come to a unanimous decision to choose men to send to you together with our beloved Barʹna·bas and Paul, 26 men who have given up their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 We are therefore sending Judas and Silas, so that they also may report the same things by word of mouth. 28 For the holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you except these necessary things: 29 to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols, from blood, from what is strangled, and from sexual immorality. If you carefully keep yourselves from these things, you will prosper. Good health to you!”

Certain things from the Law were reiterated to Christians as “necessary” and included in the teachings of Jesus….but observance of the Sabbath was not among them.

Certain things from the Law were reiterated to Christians as “necessary” and included in the teachings of Jesus….but observance of the Sabbath was not among them.

Are you sure???

The Lord said He came to fulfill the law, not destroy it - Matthew 5:17

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

 

[A Freeman]

Many people find the doctrine of the Holy Spirit confusing. Is the Holy Spirit a force, a person, or something else? What does the Bible teach?

All man-made doctrines are meant to be confusing. The Truth is simple, straightforward and always logical/reasonable.

The Holy Spirit is our spiritual connection with God. It is through the Holy Spirit that we can receive guidance and warnings, in the moment, as long as we are listening intently with spiritual ears, and seeing the situation with spiritual eyes.

John 16:7-13
16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the Truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
16:9 Of sin, because they believe not me;
16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world (Lucifer/Satan) is judged.
16:12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth, is come, he will guide you into all Truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, [that] shall he speak: and he will show you things to come.

This is Christ's assignment as the ONLY Mediator (connection) between God and men (1 Tim. 2:5; see also: 1 Cor. 11:3), exactly as Christ told us.

John 14:15-18
14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.
14:16 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
14:17 [Even] the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

We're even told how to receive the Holy Spirit in increasing measure.

Acts 5:29-33
5:29 Then Peter and the [other] Apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
5:31 Him hath God exalted with His right hand [to be] a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
5:32 And we are His witnesses of these things; and [so is] also the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey Him.
5:33 When they heard [that], they were cut [to the heart], and took counsel to slay them.

Matthew 28:19 teaches us to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is a collective reference to one Triune God.

No, it doesn't. This is yet another blatantly obvious attempt to tamper with God's Word, as that phraseology was added to the Bible (like the "Johannine comma" in 1 John 5:7-8).

The original text for Matthew 28:19 reads as follows:

Matthew 28:19-20
28:19 Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them with the Holy Spirit: in my name (The Saviour),
28:20 Instructing them to observe (and DO) all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, [even] unto the end of the world (age). Amen.

How do we know this with absolute certainty? Because IF Matt. 28:19 had actually instructed the disciples to go and make disciples of all nations by baptizing them in the name of the "Father, Son and Holy Spirit", then every single disciple and apostle that went out and baptized others would have been guilty of disobeying a direct order from Christ, because they ALL baptized in the name of the Saviour (which is what "Jesus" means in English) ONLY. That's how obvious and utterly ridiculous these additions really are, and why Father makes such fools of those who think they can get away with these blatant forgeries!

A few examples of the baptizing, for those who may wish to look them up for themselves: Acts 2:38, 8:12, 8:16, 10:48, 19:5, 22:16, Gal. 3:27, 1 Cor. 1:13 (implied), Rom. 6:3. Please note well they all follow Christ's original instructions, NOT the altered text. This is how error correction works.

 

[Wrangler]

Because IF Matt. 28:19 had actually instructed the disciples to go and make disciples of all nations by baptizing them in the name of the "Father, Son and Holy Spirit", then every single disciple and apostle that went out and baptized others would have been guilty of disobeying a direct order from Christ

After seeing him resurrected from a brutal death! Trinitarians attempt to explain why the Apostles were disobedient to the risen Christ in not one single recorded baptism was done in the name of these 3 is fun to read as it is absurd.

 

[Johann]

All man-made doctrines are meant to be confusing. The Truth is simple, straightforward and always logical/reasonable.

Nice try-Now I have an assignment for you, look up the grammar in Koine Greek for every single Scripture reference posted. Can you do that @A Freeman?

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity Pt. 3
This is a continuation from the previous segment: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity Pt. 2.

V. The Holy Spirit Is God

Equated with God/the Lord: Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17-18

Has the incommunicable attributes of God

Eternal: Heb. 9:14; this poses a problem for anyone suggesting that the Holy Spirit is something other than God (implies someone or something else besides God is eternal)

Omnipresent: Ps. 139:7

Omniscient: 1 Cor. 2:10-11

Involved in all the works of God

Creation: Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:30

Incarnation: Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35

Resurrection: Rom. 1:4; 8:11

Salvation: Rom. 8:1-27

Is a person

Has a name: Matt. 28:19; note that even though “name” might be used of a nonperson, here, in conjunction with the Father and the Son, it must be used of a person.

Is the “Helper”

Is another Helper: John 14:16, cf. 1 John 2:1; note also that “Helper” (paraklêtos) was used in Greek always or almost always of persons.

Is sent in Jesus’ name, to teach: John 14:26.

Will arrive, and then bear witness: John 15:26-27.

Is sent by Christ to convict of sin, will speak not on his own but on behalf of Christ, will glorify Christ, thus exhibiting humility: John 16:7-14.

Is the Holy Spirit, in contrast to unholy or unclean spirits: Mark 3:22-30, cf. Matt. 12:32; 1 Tim. 4:1; 1 John 3:24–4:6.

Speaks, is quoted as speaking: John 16:13; Acts 1:16; 8:29; 10:19; 11:12; 13:2; 16:6; 20:23; 21:11; 28:25-27; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7-11; 10:15-17; 1 Pet. 1:11; Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22.

Can be lied to: Acts 5:3

Can make decisions, judgments: Acts 15:28

Intercedes for Christians with the Father: Rom. 8:26

“Impersonal” language used of the Spirit paralleled by language used of other persons

The Holy Spirit as fire: Matt. 3:11; Luke 3:16; cf. Ex. 3:2-4; Deut. 4:24; 9:3; Heb. 12:29

The Holy Spirit poured out: Acts 2:17, 33; cf. Is. 53:12; Phil. 2:17; 2 Tim. 4:6

Being filled with the Holy Spirit: Eph. 5:18, etc.; cf. Eph. 3:17, 19; John 14:10

VI. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Are Each Someone Distinct from the Other Two (i.e., they are three “persons”)

Matt. 28:19

“the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”: use of definite article before each personal noun indicates distinct persons unless explicitly stated otherwise; compare Rev. 1:17; 2:8, 26

The views that “Father” and “Son” are distinct persons but not the Holy Spirit, or that the Holy Spirit is not a person at all, or that all three are different offices or roles of one person, are impossible in view of the grammar (together with the fact that in Scripture a “spirit” is a person unless context shows otherwise).

Does singular “name” prove that the three are one person? No; cf. Gen. 5:2; 11:14; 48:6; and esp. 48:16. Thus, the word “name” can apply distinctly to each of the three (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and does not imply that they have only one name.

“Name” need not be personal name, may be title: Is. 9:6; Matt. 1:23.

Acts 2:38 and Matt. 28:19

Neither passage specifies that certain words are to be spoken during baptism; nor does the Bible ever record someone saying, “I baptize you in the name of….”

Those said to be baptized in the name of Jesus (whether or not the formula “in the name of Jesus” was used) were people already familiar with the God of the OT:

Jews: Acts 2:5, 38; 22:16

Samaritans: Acts 8:5, 12, 16

God-fearing Gentiles: Acts 10:1-2, 22, 48

Disciples of John the Baptist: Acts 19:1-5

The first Christians in Corinth were Jews and God-fearing Gentiles: Acts 18:1-8; 1 Cor. 1:13

Trinitarian formula for baptism (if that is what Matt. 28:19 is) was given in context of commissioning apostles to take the gospel to “all the nations,” including people who did not know of the biblical God

Cross-referencing Acts 2:38 and other Acts references to baptism “in Jesus’ name” with Matthew 28:19 to prove that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is hermeneutically flawed, since none of these passages is seeking to make such a point and none of them is claiming that baptism must be performed using a particular formula.

God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ are two persons

The salutations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; Philem. 3; James 1:1; 2 Pet. 1:2; 2 John 3

Two witnesses: John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; cf. Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15

The Father sent the Son: John 3:16-17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10; etc.; cf. John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21

The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 5:20; 14:31; 15:9; 17:23-26; cf. Matt. 3:17 par.; 17:5 par.; 2 Pet. 1:17

The Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father: John 11:41-42; 12:28; 17:1-26; etc.

The Father knows the Son, and the Son knows the Father: Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22; John 7:29; 8:55; 10:15

Jesus our Advocate with the Father: 1 John 2:1

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity Pt. 3

This is a continuation from the previous segment: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity Pt. 2. V. The Holy Spirit Is God Equated with God/the Lord: Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:1…

answeringislamblog.wordpress.com

J.

 

[A Freeman]

There is no Sabbath command for anyone but Israel. It was part of the Law given to Israel but not applied to gentiles.

The Law of God applies to everyone, which is why Christ told us The Law will NEVER pass away (Matt. 5:17-19).

God's Perfect Law of Liberty provides us with its terms and conditions, as well as who is party to the Covenant. Please see for yourself it includes all of us, in perpetuity.

Deuteronomy 29:9-15
29:9 Keep therefore the words of this Covenant, and DO them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.
29:10 Ye stand this day all of you before the "I AM" your God; your captains of your tribes, your elders, and your officers, [with] all the men of Israel,
29:11 Your little ones, your wives, and thy stranger that [is] in thy camp, from the hewer of thy wood unto the drawer of thy water:
29:12 That thou shouldest enter into Covenant with the "I AM" thy God, and into His Oath, which the "I AM" thy God maketh with thee this day:
29:13 That He may establish thee to day for a people unto Himself, and [that] He may be unto thee a God, as He hath said unto thee, and as He hath sworn unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob/Israel.
29:14 Neither with you only do I make this Covenant and this Oath;
29:15 But with [him] that standeth here with us this day before the "I AM" our God, and also with [him] that [is] not here with us this day [thy children, in PERPETUITY]:

Anyone claiming that they don't have to keep The Law doesn't know nor love Christ.

Matthew 5:17-19
5:17 Think NOT that I am come to destroy The Law, or the Prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill [to fully preach The Law (The Torah) and fulfill the prophecies about the first coming of the Messiah].
5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no way pass from The Law, till ALL be fulfilled.
5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least COMMANDments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of heaven*: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of heaven.

*the lowest of the low in God's Eyes

John 14:15 If ye love me, KEEP my COMMANDments.

1 John 2:3-4
2:3 And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep His Commandments.
2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth NOT His Commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth is NOT in him.

And with regard to Israel (the true people Israel, NOT the counterfeit-Jewish state in the Middle East) everyone had better be striving to be an Israelite (Rev. 7:4-9; Rev. 14:1-4).

 

[A Freeman]

Nice try-Now I have an assignment for you, look up the grammar in Koine Greek for every single Scripture reference posted. Can you do that @A Freeman?

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity Pt. 3
This is a continuation from the previous segment: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity Pt. 2.

V. The Holy Spirit Is God

Equated with God/the Lord: Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:17-18

Has the incommunicable attributes of God

Eternal: Heb. 9:14; this poses a problem for anyone suggesting that the Holy Spirit is something other than God (implies someone or something else besides God is eternal)

Omnipresent: Ps. 139:7

Omniscient: 1 Cor. 2:10-11

Involved in all the works of God

Creation: Gen. 1:2; Ps. 104:30

Incarnation: Matt. 1:18, 20; Luke 1:35

Resurrection: Rom. 1:4; 8:11

Salvation: Rom. 8:1-27

Is a person

Has a name: Matt. 28:19; note that even though “name” might be used of a nonperson, here, in conjunction with the Father and the Son, it must be used of a person.

Is the “Helper”

Is another Helper: John 14:16, cf. 1 John 2:1; note also that “Helper” (paraklêtos) was used in Greek always or almost always of persons.

Is sent in Jesus’ name, to teach: John 14:26.

Will arrive, and then bear witness: John 15:26-27.

Is sent by Christ to convict of sin, will speak not on his own but on behalf of Christ, will glorify Christ, thus exhibiting humility: John 16:7-14.

Is the Holy Spirit, in contrast to unholy or unclean spirits: Mark 3:22-30, cf. Matt. 12:32; 1 Tim. 4:1; 1 John 3:24–4:6.

Speaks, is quoted as speaking: John 16:13; Acts 1:16; 8:29; 10:19; 11:12; 13:2; 16:6; 20:23; 21:11; 28:25-27; 1 Tim. 4:1; Heb. 3:7-11; 10:15-17; 1 Pet. 1:11; Rev. 2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22.

Can be lied to: Acts 5:3

Can make decisions, judgments: Acts 15:28

Intercedes for Christians with the Father: Rom. 8:26

“Impersonal” language used of the Spirit paralleled by language used of other persons

The Holy Spirit as fire: Matt. 3:11; Luke 3:16; cf. Ex. 3:2-4; Deut. 4:24; 9:3; Heb. 12:29

The Holy Spirit poured out: Acts 2:17, 33; cf. Is. 53:12; Phil. 2:17; 2 Tim. 4:6

Being filled with the Holy Spirit: Eph. 5:18, etc.; cf. Eph. 3:17, 19; John 14:10

VI. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Are Each Someone Distinct from the Other Two (i.e., they are three “persons”)

Matt. 28:19

“the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit”: use of definite article before each personal noun indicates distinct persons unless explicitly stated otherwise; compare Rev. 1:17; 2:8, 26

The views that “Father” and “Son” are distinct persons but not the Holy Spirit, or that the Holy Spirit is not a person at all, or that all three are different offices or roles of one person, are impossible in view of the grammar (together with the fact that in Scripture a “spirit” is a person unless context shows otherwise).

Does singular “name” prove that the three are one person? No; cf. Gen. 5:2; 11:14; 48:6; and esp. 48:16. Thus, the word “name” can apply distinctly to each of the three (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and does not imply that they have only one name.

“Name” need not be personal name, may be title: Is. 9:6; Matt. 1:23.

Acts 2:38 and Matt. 28:19

Neither passage specifies that certain words are to be spoken during baptism; nor does the Bible ever record someone saying, “I baptize you in the name of….”

Those said to be baptized in the name of Jesus (whether or not the formula “in the name of Jesus” was used) were people already familiar with the God of the OT:

Jews: Acts 2:5, 38; 22:16

Samaritans: Acts 8:5, 12, 16

God-fearing Gentiles: Acts 10:1-2, 22, 48

Disciples of John the Baptist: Acts 19:1-5

The first Christians in Corinth were Jews and God-fearing Gentiles: Acts 18:1-8; 1 Cor. 1:13

Trinitarian formula for baptism (if that is what Matt. 28:19 is) was given in context of commissioning apostles to take the gospel to “all the nations,” including people who did not know of the biblical God

Cross-referencing Acts 2:38 and other Acts references to baptism “in Jesus’ name” with Matthew 28:19 to prove that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is hermeneutically flawed, since none of these passages is seeking to make such a point and none of them is claiming that baptism must be performed using a particular formula.

God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ are two persons

The salutations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; Philem. 3; James 1:1; 2 Pet. 1:2; 2 John 3

Two witnesses: John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; cf. Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15

The Father sent the Son: John 3:16-17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10; etc.; cf. John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21

The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 5:20; 14:31; 15:9; 17:23-26; cf. Matt. 3:17 par.; 17:5 par.; 2 Pet. 1:17

The Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father: John 11:41-42; 12:28; 17:1-26; etc.

The Father knows the Son, and the Son knows the Father: Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22; John 7:29; 8:55; 10:15

Jesus our Advocate with the Father: 1 John 2:1

The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity Pt. 3

This is a continuation from the previous segment: The Biblical Basis of the Doctrine of the Trinity Pt. 2. V. The Holy Spirit Is God Equated with God/the Lord: Acts 5:3-4; 2 Cor. 3:1…

answeringislamblog.wordpress.com

J.

Thanks, but I don't take assignments from you nor from any other human. My assignments (and any knowledge personally obtained from Scripture) are provided to me by Father, via His Holy Spirit.


Peace be upon you.

 

[Aunty Jane]

No. Nor a "Jew". Simply a disciple of Christ.

Do you have a brotherhood who all believe as you do? It is not possible to be a Christian in isolation from those who hold the same truth, no matter what nation they live in (Acts 15:14; Acts 10:34-35)……God’s spirit unites his people…it does not divide them. There is one Bible…”one Lord, one faith, one baptism”….but a thousand different interpretation as to what that means….are we to wander off and create our own version of Christianity….going to the great celestial supermarket to select the beliefs that suit our taste, whist leaving others on the shelf?

”One Lord, one faith, one baptism” does not allow for that…..the “wheat“ (sheep) exist with the “weeds” (goats) so finding them in among those claiming Jesus as their “Lord” (not their God) is a prime decider because those whom Jesus addresses in Matt 7:21-23 are gobsmacked to be rejected by the one they call “Lord” but in a whole different capacity……Jesus says “I NEVER KNEW YOU”…….”never” means “not ever”…..so not in their entire existence has this majority been recognized as belonging to Christ.…..but are called “workers of lawlessness”….whose laws are they breaking? The first Commandment….putting three other “gods” in the place of the Father, but still claiming it’s not polytheism….and by painting him as a sadistic fiend by inventing a hell of eternal conscious torment.