Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[face2face]

If the answer was false you would've said so, but you didn't, because it's not, and thus I'm not in a "tight spot'. The Holy Trinity is God: "Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden [...]" (Gen. 3:23)

Was it the Trinity who sent them from the Garden?

 

[Magdala]

Was it the Trinity who sent them from the Garden?

Refer back to post #1,924.

 

[Magdala]

[...] I'll give you time to think about the Elohim and angels.

No need. Refer back to post #1,921.

 

[face2face]

This exchange highlights why the Trinity distorts the text! It traps the innocent into unavoidable contradictions.

 

[Brakelite]

FALSEHOOD
you must provide scritural evidence that is specific to the subject matter




FALSEHOOD AGAIN

there is not a single scripture that declares the FATHER begot the WORD in the past

The Scripture declares that the FATHER begot His SON when the HOLY SPIRIT overshadowed Mary

@Brakelite, you are trying to appease the lies of jws on this thread and it will only backfire on you.

TURN BACK to TRUTH

Every word of God is flawless;
He is a shield to those who take refuge in Him.
Do not add to His words,
lest He rebuke you and prove you a liar.

A body hast thou prepared for Me...who is Me?

you are trying to appease the lies of jws on this thread and it will only backfire on you.

JWs do not believe the Son was begotten. They say He was created, just as do APAK, Wrangler, and F2F. Nor do JWs believe Jesus is divine, but only a good human. As do APAK, Wrangler, and F2F.
JWs believe Jesus in His former existence was merely a created angel called Michael. A created being devoid of any ontological relationship with the Father.
Then there's the standard trinitarians who don't think through their beliefs and consider some sticky conclusions. Like if the second person of the "trinity" was not a Son until Bethlehem, what was He?

 

[Magdala]

This exchange highlights why the Trinity distorts the text!

How so?

 

[Brakelite]

Did the Trinity walk Adam & Eve out of the Garden?

If the Son is God, because He is the Son of God, then the Lord God walked with Adam and eve in the garden. Is not Jesus Lord?

 

[Brakelite]

Agree!

Correct AND not him being God!

The Pharisees and Jews did this throughout his ministry!

Agree.

Known as illnesses today but yes!

Nope!

You were doing so well Brakelite!

It's really just one step and it will fall into place

F2F

Who's Spirit spoke to men and women through the prophets?

 

[face2face]

If the Son is God, because He is the Son of God, then the Lord God walked with Adam and eve in the garden. Is not Jesus Lord?

No, the "us" of Gen 3:22 is titled Lord God in verse 23. It was an Angel or Angels who did this. And then they proceeded to placed Angelic sentries to gaurd the way.

The reason Lux faced difficulty is due to God's Shekinah glory, which is a manifestation of His divine presence. In Biblical teachings, sinful flesh cannot withstand being in the presence of this Glory, as it is too pure and holy (Brightness). Therefore, only those who are made holy can endure such an encounter. The Angels are able to condensend in glory to work with us...minister us into His Kingdom.

Yahweh will not do so!

F2F

 

[face2face]

Who's Spirit spoke to men and women through the prophets?

• Genesis 1:2 (KJV): "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
• 1 Corinthians 2:10-11 (KJV): "But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."
• John 14:26 (KJV): "But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

God's Spirit is the answer.

 

[ProDeo]

This is how the doctrine of the Trinity came to be—people, while lying in bed, imagining things that are not true. Look, Pro, this kind of activity has been happening for millennia. It happened at the time of Lamech who thought to himself I'll take two wives...it happened during the time of the Prophets and it happened in 325 AD at your beloved council.

During the 325 AD Nicaea council 316 of the 318 gathered Church leaders decided that Jesus was God in the human flesh. And 1700 years later that is what the vast majority of Churches still believe. And then 100+ years ago there comes some guy that says - No, no, no, they have it all wrong, creates a new cult saying - We are the only right church. And you with all your intelligence falls for it.

 

[face2face]

During the 325 AD Nicaea council 316 of the 318 gathered Church leaders decided that Jesus was God in the human flesh. And 1700 years later that is what the vast majority of Churches still believe. And then 100+ years ago there comes some guy that says - No, no, no, they have it all wrong, creates a new cult saying - We are the only right church. And you with all your intelligence falls for it.

Who could have imagined the strenght of the delusion would be so strong?

I think you should check your numbers though, around 220 to 250 bishops voted for it.

Still it was a terrible decision one which has deceived many.

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

My question is, Mary got pregnant by the Holy Spirit did she not?

Therefore how could Jesus have been just an ordinary human being?

Jesus came from the divine seed of God.

I came from my human fathers seed, I then became Born Again by Gods divine seed, ..my spirit became Born Again.

Jesus was much more than an ordinary human being...he was God’s Son, conceived by Gods Spirit..you dont even have to look scripture up, to know that Jesus was divine.....just my thoughts.

 

[ProDeo]

Who could have imagined the strenght of the delusion would be so strong?

I think you should check your numbers though, around 220 to 250 bishops voted for it.

Still it was a terrible decision one which has deceived many.

F2F

I got my numbers from the Wiki, by the words of Athanasius, nevertheless whatever the right numbers, you are opposing a mountain of evidence in AD 325, later councils and today anno 2025, seventeen hundred years later, the divinity of Christ is still mainstream. And for good reasons.

 

[face2face]

My question is, Mary got pregnant by the Holy Spirit did she not?

Yes

Therefore how could Jesus have been just an ordinary human being?

When you describe him as ordinary, I don't agree—he was an extraordinary human being, especially since His Father is God. However, if you're suggesting that he had advantages due to His nature, I would have to disagree. He was as human as you or I. Was He quick to discern spiritual matters? Absolutely! But he was also the Son of Man, perfectly representing us in every way, except that he resisted sin to the point of shedding his own blood.

Jesus came from the divine seed of God.

Actually we don't know how the conception took place other than we know it did.

For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.

God took great care no dought to ensure he was the right son.

I came from my human fathers seed, I then became Born Again by Gods divine seed, ..my spirit became Born Again.

Jesus was much more than an ordinary human being...he was God’s Son, conceived by Gods Spirit..you dont even have to look scripture up, to know that Jesus was divine.....just my thoughts.

Nice thoughts!

F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

When you describe him as ordinary, I don't agree—

I never said that Jesus was an ordinary human being?

Do you actually read members posts?

Or are you so closed minded that you can only see your way?

Also who are you to say that some members on here don’t know Jesus?

he was an extraordinary human being, especially since His Father is God. However, if you're suggesting that he had advantages due to His nature, I would have to disagree. He was as human as you or I.

He was born a baby, of course he had advantages, he was God’s Son?..his divine Son?

Was He quick to discern spiritual matters? Absolutely! But he was also the Son of Man, perfectly representing us in every way, except that he resisted sin to the point of shedding his own blood.

The Son Of man?

What do you mean, how can he have been the Son Of a man?

He was the Son Of God, His mother was born of man’s seed.

His Spirit was divine, as that’s how he was conceived, by Gods divine seed..a Living seed?

 

[face2face]

I got my numbers from the Wiki, by the words of Athanasius, nevertheless whatever the right numbers, you are opposing a mountain of evidence in AD 325, later councils and today anno 2025, seventeen hundred years later, the divinity of Christ is still mainstream. And for good reasons.

Mainstream would instantly concern me Pro given Christianty has had 1700 years of developing its mysterious doctrines.

 

[Ritajanice]

Actually we don't know how the conception took place other than we know it did.

Yes we do, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary came with child.

How else would she have become pregnant, if not by Gods seed/ mouth?

For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb.

Knitted who together in my mother’s womb?

Short commentary.

David addresses God as having formed his inner being before birth. Job says something similar: "You clothed me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews" (Job 10:11). We know from Genesis 1:27 that we were created in the image of God

God took great care no dought to ensure he was the right son.

Right Son?

 

[face2face]

I never said that Jesus was an ordinary human being?

Do you actually read members posts?

Or are you so closed minded that you can only see your way?

Also who are you to say that some members on here don’t know Jesus?

Was that an unhinged moment?

He was born a baby, of course he had advantages, he was God’s Son?..his divine Son?

He became divine as the Gospel teaches

The Son Of man?

What do you mean, how can he have been the Son Of a man?

So this question would prompt me to say you would not know Jesus if you didn't know him as the Son of Man.

He was the Son Of God, His mother was born of man’s seed.

His Spirit was divine, as that’s how he was conceived, by Gods divine seed..a Living seed?

Jesus is referred to as the "Son of Man" approximately 81 times in the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John)

If you want to know why I'm sure you can research this yourself or ask.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Yes we do, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary came with child.

Yes we know this just not the mechanics!

How else would she have become pregnant, if not by Gods seed/ mouth?

Maybe you have a picture of how this happened?

Knitted who together in my mother’s womb?

To mean God was the creator of Jesus in Mary's womb.

Short commentary.

David addresses God as having formed his inner being before birth. Job says something similar: "You clothed me with skin and flesh, and knit me together with bones and sinews" (Job 10:11). We know from Genesis 1:27 that we were created in the image of God

Correct—though the first Adam was formed from the Earth, Jesus inherited a sinful nature through His mother. This is why it was essential for Him to be born of a woman (Son of Man!).

Right Son?

Yes he was the right Son of God's choosing!

F2F