Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[amigo de christo]

Your questions are VALID and EXCELLENT in evaluating Truth.

i am very busy but will answer those questions, from scripture, later.

Answer away my friend . I could have , but was not led too .
And i believe i already know why . HAS THE MAN EVEN ONCE listened .
SO i aint asking YOU not to answer , but dont be suprised when HE rejects it .
Because if you answer cometh from scripture , WELL HE has already long rejected that my friend .
But do try . And i will pray HE hears you . for HIS SAKE .

 

[amigo de christo]

Your questions are VALID and EXCELLENT in evaluating Truth.

i am very busy but will answer those questions, from scripture, later.

go to hebrews , go to corithians , go to romans , to acts ,
oh that list is quite large . YOU can easily show him by scripture .
As for me , I AINT EVEN LED to do so . and i know why .
BUT as for you , YOU may do so my friend. and i will pray for you , and that he will recieve the truth
remember when hanniah spoke as he did
and then broke the wooden yoke from off of jeremiahs neck
JEREMIAH simply said amen the LORD DO SO
He had warned them . SOON thereafter the WORD OF GOD came unto HIM
to GO back and expose that man . that man DIED in that same year for preaching rebellion against GOD .
PLEASE do not think that means i desire the death of anyone . IT DONT .
But i know something my friend . Of course it must be tested . YOU DO as you must
and i will PRAY AND PRAY that man hear the TRUTH . as for me , MY MOUTH was not given to speak words to that man .
And it aint cause i dont desire good for him . I DO . the man is in deadly dire danger
MAY i suggest you ask him , IF YOU BE LED TO DO SO , what he thinks about this finding common ground

 

[amigo de christo]

Your questions are VALID and EXCELLENT in evaluating Truth.

i am very busy but will answer those questions, from scripture, later.

David i know you know the truth my friend . but i suggest you read
the warning i gave to pro deo .
IF you see error please please please feel free to show me this .
But i am warning us all
THIS WILL SILENCE those who even speak TRUTH .
And i have seen this firsthand on other sites . EVERYONE wants to play the card my friend .
WHEN the words of men offends , they gets offended . ME , i say rejoice when persecuted .
I dont seem to remember JESUS telling peter or andrew , john or james
HEY LETS REPORT that man cause he offended me .
EXPOSE THE LIES OF SATAN and of men . BUT
remember this , if words and name calling on a computer screen can so easily offend us
and etc , WHAT THE HECK we gonna do when its in person .
David , while i know Most every man or woman born to woman, aka THAT MEANS HUMANITY ,
wants nothing to do with me , that do INCLUDE MANY IN OUTER WOOL
MY DESIRE they cannot take from me
and my desire is , GOD BE HONORED IN ALL WE DO
and that NO matter how they hate me , LIFE FOR THEM . you looking at a man
who KNOWS I AINT SQUAT , who knows i deserved naught but the lake of fire
WHO KNOWS the only GOODNESS HE EVEN HAS COMETH OF GOD
and I be no better than any and perhaps was at one time the worst of many .
BUT KNOW THIS , I HAD RATHER DRINK FIVE GALLONS of gas
and go to a field of dead dry grass , strike a match , and then wee on it
THAN TO COMPROMISE EVEN A WORD OF GOD . I HAD RATHER DIE DAVID . LETGOD BE GLORFIED no
matter the cost to me , and may SOULS be saved . I aint the monster david . THE DEVIL IS
and so is his doctrine .

 

[Magdala]

And what was the message?

Refer back to post #1,736.

 

[David in NJ]

David i know you know the truth my friend . but i suggest you read
the warning i gave to pro deo .
IF you see error please please please feel free to show me this .
But i am warning us all
THIS WILL SILENCE those who even speak TRUTH .
And i have seen this firsthand on other sites . EVERYONE wants to play the card my friend .
WHEN the words of men offends , they gets offended . ME , i say rejoice when persecuted .
I dont seem to remember JESUS telling peter or andrew , john or james
HEY LETS REPORT that man cause he offended me .
EXPOSE THE LIES OF SATAN and of men . BUT
remember this , if words and name calling on a computer screen can so easily offend us
and etc , WHAT THE HECK we gonna do when its in person .
David , while i know Most every man or woman born to woman, aka THAT MEANS HUMANITY ,
wants nothing to do with me , that do INCLUDE MANY IN OUTER WOOL
MY DESIRE they cannot take from me
and my desire is , GOD BE HONORED IN ALL WE DO
and that NO matter how they hate me , LIFE FOR THEM . you looking at a man
who KNOWS I AINT SQUAT , who knows i deserved naught but the lake of fire
WHO KNOWS the only GOODNESS HE EVEN HAS COMETH OF GOD
and I be no better than any and perhaps was at one time the worst of many .
BUT KNOW THIS , I HAD RATHER DRINK FIVE GALLONS of gas
and go to a field of dead dry grass , strike a match , and then wee on it
THAN TO COMPROMISE EVEN A WORD OF GOD . I HAD RATHER DIE DAVID . LETGOD BE GLORFIED no
matter the cost to me , and may SOULS be saved . I aint the monster david . THE DEVIL IS
and so is his doctrine .

No one can outsmart the Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit when we trust every word.

 

[amigo de christo]

No one can outsmart the Holy Scriptures and the Holy Spirit when we trust every word.

NO one can my friend . but believe me when i say THEY CAN DECIEVE THEMSELVES .
IF you want to see who the quickest draw in the west is , FOLLOW ME AROUND .
now i know that sounds like i just boasted in me , NO SIR .
WHEN I SAID who is the quickest draw
I SIMPLY MEANT , YOU WATCH HOW FASTFOLKS PUT ME ON IGNORE .
Oh they will tolerate even those who call them ugly names
BUT MAN when i bring truth , all of a sudden its YOU ON MY IGNORE LIST .
Go to everyone in private and you ask them about me david .
THEY will never be able to point to the doctrine i bring
AT MOST ITS GONNA BE , HE SO DARN JUDGEMNTAL ,
HE is such a warner , a doom and gloomer , oh he might mean well but is imature
THEN OPEN THE BIBLE and YOU SEE HOW the true men of GOD
did things . WE been duped david . BUT THE MORE WE READ THE BIBLE
the more it comes together .

 

[Wrangler]

Even if i answer this you will not hear it .

Not a reason not to actually answer his questions.

Yet, we all know you do not engage in discussion. Rather, you use every thread and post to spring board truisms and lately, dire warnings against interfaith.

For a change in routine, why not sincerely answer his questions (if he does not hear, that’s on him)?

 

[amigo de christo]

Not a reason not to actually answer his questions.

Yet, we all know you do not engage in discussion. Rather, you use every thread and post to spring board truisms and lately, dire warnings against interfaith.

For a change in routine, why not sincerely answer his questions (if he does not hear, that’s on him)?

let david answer him . I dont do unless i am LED TO DO .
i did that once . did you know i answered a man at the store i once worked at .
I was NOT LED to answer him . but i did so , in my own power , MAN THAT DID NOT BODE WELL at all .
RATHER i shall wait upon GOD . IF HE gives me words and reminders to tell that man , THEN I shall do so .
Now as far as interfaith , ITS OF ANTI CHRIST . AND So long as i am led to warn i shall warn .
Dont bet on black , dont bet on red in vegas and dont call them for the odds either .
But a safe bet is , BET ON AMIGO exposing interfaith for the anti christ lie it is .
But even if i did falter on this , even if you seen me preaching for interfaith , or even an angel
HEED ME NOT , HEED rather this , INTERFAITH IS OF ANTI CHRIST and HEED THAT BIBLE FRIEND . HEED THAT GOD
who inspired that bible . YOU DO THAT . if even an angel , or me or any
preaches interfaith unto you , LET THEM BE ACCURSED , ITS OF ANTI CHRIST .

 

[APAK]

Even if i answer this you will not hear it .
FOR IF YOU HEAR not the TRUTH in scripture that GOD INSPIRED
but rather heed men who twisted it , you aint gonna hear the TRUTH i say .
THE KEY to knowing whether or not what we hear is of men , is of our own minds , is of another spirit
OR REALLY IS OF GOD is this , DID WE HAVE TO TWIST and omit things in the scriptures .
The KEY is if what we know , what we think we know contradicts that which is written THEN ITS A LIE .
And beleive you me , we have more scholars out their who use greek
who use hermunetics , who use exgegis , who use a lot of stuff
and THEY disagree with one the other . BUT THOSE WHO SIT UNDER THEM HOLD TO THEM .
in other words , men have always desired the one thing that ALONE was to be given to GOD and not man .
THE GLORY , THE PRE EMEININCE , the desire for power and control , the desire to be seen of men
In other words , A TON of what has infiltrated and created many sects within christendom , CAME OF MEN BUD .
NOT GOD
And as always men of every age whose desire was to please themselves
Will and do create a way that will always please their flesh .
IF what we do and say , if what we teach , be contrary to what is written , FRIEND I got real bad news , IT AINT COMINGFROM GOD
its coming from ya mind , from men ,
No man here knows and understands all . SO THE KEY IS
OPEN BIBLE again , BELEIVE AS DO A CHILD that what you are reading IS TRUTH
BELEIVE as do a child that you dONT HAVE TO RUN TO MEN , TO GREEK , to learn it
BELIEVE AS DO A CHILD that ITS TRUTH . The understanding will come in time . at least enough understanding
to continue to grow our faith .
YOU sat under men or etc WHO TWISTED THE WORD . HOW DO I KNOW THIS
cause your version of JESUS dont add up
to IN THE BEGINNING was the WORD and GOD IS THE WORD .
rather it adds up too , In the beginning was a word and this word ............
IN other words , YOU are contradicting what is written .
SAME WORD , SAME JESUS , said I AM ALPHA and OMEGA ,
rather odd you seem to omit even that .
Its very true i did not understand things i read at first . BUT I BELIEVED THEM . YOU SEEM NOT TO HAVE EVER
BELEIVED IT AT ALL and that is why you were led as you were led .
NOW that is also a key sign . cause i aint no better than you my friend .
SO what is this sign i speak about . TRUTH .
TRUTH . what is truth , EVERY WORD OF GOD IS TRUTH
We got an ocean of those words in that bible . the question is do we believe what is written
OR are we beliving what men SAY about what is written as they twist and twist and twist .

So really you are saying you do not have answers on this very important topic, at this time. Maybe after you studying 1 Peter and Acts 2 and other areas of scripture, along with guidance of the spirit, you might surprise yourself and know this truth.

 

[APAK]

Answer away my friend . I could have , but was not led too .
And i believe i already know why . HAS THE MAN EVEN ONCE listened .
SO i aint asking YOU not to answer , but dont be suprised when HE rejects it .
Because if you answer cometh from scripture , WELL HE has already long rejected that my friend .
But do try . And i will pray HE hears you . for HIS SAKE .

Please stop kidding yourself and your boasting and instead humble yourself before God and even before others once in awhile. You might learn some truth about God

 

[Wrangler]

So really you are saying you do not have answers on this very important topic, at this time. Maybe after you studying 1 Peter and Acts 2 and other areas of scripture, along with guidance of the spirit, you might surprise yourself and know this truth.

You have a lot of patience for these mystics who cannot express themselves but imbue divine wisdom to what is apparent jibberish.

 

[David in NJ]

You have a lot of patience for these mystics who cannot express themselves but imbue divine wisdom to what is apparent jibberish.

i can always count on you for a good lol

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Some fervent Trinitarians can become defensive when confronted with overwhelming evidence that challenges their beliefs, as you are displaying.

I'm going by what God said in His Word... too bad you people don't know how to do that and instead are controlled by the preconceived ideas of others who have been deceived by the devil to reject what the scripture plainly tells us...

Hang in there bud... maybe you'll get it someday, or may not... it's not looking good

Not even close Johann!

Yeah, actually it's game over for those who don't have enough common sense to take God at His Word and consider the Lord to be a liar. Those folks walking in all kinds of false doctrine due to rejecting the whole counsel of God.

What role does Yehoshua HaMashiach (יְהוֹשֻׁעַ הַמָּשִׁיחַ) and the Ruach HaKodesh (רוּחַ הַקֹּדֶשׁ) play in your life?

Apparently none whatsoever!

God isn't a morning star - he makes the Morning Star!

Dodge and deflect

Look let me get to the chase...1 John 5:7 is a blatant forgery

That's the calling card of the devil... claiming what God said was not actually what God said

'Ol slewfoot and his minions are always calling God a liar just like in the garden.

Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?

These demonstrate that 1 John 5:7 is true to everyone that is being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ sent by the Father.... except for those that the devil has tricked in to accusing the Lord of lying in His Word... which causes those folks to be reprobate. There's an award for these peoples...

 

[Magdala]

The passage you reference does not discuss the Holy Trinity as you defined it.

I didn't say that it did. You quoted me out of context just so you could say "The passage you reference does not discuss the Holy Trinity as you defined it". Don't do that again, please.

The point is this. The Bible never explicitly defines God as a single being of three distinct persons.

That's your problem. You want to see the Holy Trinity explicitly explained in Scripture. For example, "God exists in three Persons, each distinct, united as one because they are the same Essence: love", but you're not always going to read or hear about something explicitly, or any other particular way that you want, because there's more than one way to say something. Just because something isn't spelled out the way you want or expect it doesn't automatically mean it's not being said. It's shown in Scripture that the one God is the Father, the Son (the Word), and the Holy Spirit. Other people recognize that, and so can you.

 

[Wrangler]

I'm going by what God said in His Word

Are you?

• YHWH is the only God (who we relate to as Father) and there is no other.
• The Father is the only true God, which means the trinitarian god is false.
• There is only one God, the Father, which means the trinity is NOT the one God of Scripture.
• True worshippers worship the Father, which means worshipping the trinity is false worship.

It would be great if you went by what God said in his Word.

 

[Magdala]

Jesus' instructions concerning baptism focus on the sources of teaching: God the Father, The son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. He wants his apostles to know and understand that when they baptize, they are not making disciples for themselves, they make disciples for God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit because all three of them speak the same exact message [...]

Why then didn't Jesus include all the names of those up to that point who also spoke God's message, e.g., John the Baptist? It's because it's about initiating new disciples, as in Christians, in the name of God: "Go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of [...] (Matt. 28:19), and He says the name of the Father, the Word (the Son), and the Holy Spirit, because They are God, each distinct, united as one because They are the same Essence: love. That's called "plurality within unity." Another example of the concept "plurality within unity", from a philosophical perspective, is the substance of water, because it exists in multiple states, each distinct, united as one, because they are the same substance: water.

 

[APAK]

You have a lot of patience for these mystics who cannot express themselves but imbue divine wisdom to what is apparent jibberish.

Well certain folks like amigo is all talk and no substance. I'm sure it's obvious to some others by now. I'm just nudging him to wake up and not to just be acquainted, being close to , and smelling the sweetness of scripture, to also get right into it and taste it and know some truth.

 

[APAK]

I'm going by what God said in His Word... too bad you people don't know how to do that and instead are controlled by the preconceived ideas of others who have been deceived by the devil to reject what the scripture plainly tells us...

Hang in there bud... maybe you'll get it someday, or may not... it's not looking good View attachment 56118






Yeah, actually it's game over for those who don't have enough common sense to take God at His Word and consider the Lord to be a liar. View attachment 56119 Those folks walking in all kinds of false doctrine due to rejecting the whole counsel of God.






Apparently none whatsoever!






Dodge and deflect View attachment 56121






That's the calling card of the devil... claiming what God said was not actually what God said

'Ol slewfoot and his minions are always calling God a liar just like in the garden.

Ever see all the scriptures about the Father?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Jesus?
Ever see all the scriptures about the Holy Spirit?

These demonstrate that 1 John 5:7 is true to everyone that is being led by the Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ sent by the Father.... except for those that the devil has tricked in to accusing the Lord of lying in His Word... which causes those folks to be reprobate. There's an award for these peoples... View attachment 56125

View attachment 56124

Wow, is that your brother's picture or even yourself. It looks a lot like your avatar...I see here another person that does not want to know the truth in scripture. Just sit on the fence and wait for someone to feed it to you, and they surely have done that it seems and you have become clueless when confronted with the holy writ, head on.

 

[marks]

I miss my brother @marks-pray him and his family is well.

Johann.

What is happening with him?

It's good to have brothers who care!

I'm on a hiatus it seems, for the most part. I've been re-evaluating my participation. My primary interest here is in going deeper into Scriptures. There are so few here that really do that.

I look at the rampant dishonesty as so many will twist words, both from the Bible, and from other members. Blatant misrepresentation of others is simply lying. I've had my fill of that.

Then there is the "You idiot, can't you see how spiritual I am? What is wrong with you?" posts, which are many, and from many members. And, "Oh you poor poor thing, you can't even understand the most basic truths!" Another I've heard over and over, "You are calling God, or Jesus, a liar!" As if!! But again, it makes them feel superior. That can even be an addiction, to compensate for some emotional deficit.

It seems there are not very many members who share my Scriptural interests, and who have the manners and integrity to have a decent discussion, instead of just running others down, stepping on them to make themselves feel superior, or whatever it is they need to feel.

I could go on and on, I'm sure you've seen all the things I have. I think the great majority of topics that interest me are being pursued in fleshy ways with fleshy results. I've been thinking about the various guidelines given in the Bible, to not engage in ignorant questions, or arguments over words, or striving against others. It seems to me that very many choose to do exactly those things, even delighting in them.

They are plainly showing the pride they are blind to in their condescending replies, as they steadfastly oppose sound doctrine.

So I've lurked here and there, but for the most part, whenever I've started to post, something inside said don't.

I'm not sure where God is leading me at the moment in relation to this forum. I do know that I'm also dealing with, or trying to, some things in my broken head which is also a distraction, and I appreciate your prayers for my healing.

Awaiting His pleasure.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Genesis 18:1, 2 accurately reads: "Afterward, Jehovah appeared to him among the big trees of Mamʹre while he was sitting at the entrance of the tent during the hottest part of the day. He looked up and saw three men standing some distance from him. When he saw them, he ran from the entrance of the tent to meet them, and he bowed down to the ground."(2013 New World Translation)

Does this mean that Jehovah God literally appeared to Abraham ? Exodus 3:1-5 answers that question, explaining who really visited Abraham, saying: "Moses became a shepherd of the flock of his father-in-law Jethʹro, the priest of Midʹi·an. While he was leading the flock to the west side of the wilderness, he eventually came to the mountain of the true God, to Horʹeb."

"Then Jehovah’s angel appeared to him in a flame of fire in the midst of a thornbush. As he kept looking, he saw that the thornbush was on fire, and yet the thornbush was not consumed. So Moses said: “I will go over to inspect this unusual sight to see why the thornbush does not burn up.”

"When Jehovah (or Jehovah's materialized angel) saw that he went over to look, God called to him out of the thornbush and said: “Moses! Moses!” to which he said: “Here I am.” Then he said: “Do not come any nearer. Remove your sandals from your feet, because the place where you are standing is holy ground.”

At Numbers 20:14-16, Moses sent messengers to the King of Edom as the nation of Israel was about to reach the land of Canaan, saying: "This is what your brother Israel says, ‘You well know all the hardship that we have experienced."

"Our fathers went to Egypt, and we dwelled in Egypt many years, and the Egyptians mistreated us and our fathers. Finally we cried out to Jehovah, and he heard us and sent an angel and brought us out of Egypt, and here we are in Kaʹdesh, a city on the border of your territory."

So, who was it that spoke to Moses as Jehovah God ? An angel, who was Jehovah's chief spokesman, his "Word".(John 1:1, 2) At Judges 6, it says: "But the Israelites again did what was bad in the eyes of Jehovah, so Jehovah gave them into the hand of Midʹi·an for seven years......."

"Later Jehovah’s angel came and sat under the big tree that was in Ophʹrah, which belonged to Joʹash the Abi-ezʹrite. His son Gidʹe·on was beating out wheat in the winepress in order to hide it from Midʹi·an. Jehovah’s angel appeared to him and said: “Jehovah is with you, you mighty warrior.”

"At this Gidʹe·on said to him: “Pardon me, my lord, but if Jehovah is with us, why has all of this come upon us? Where are all his wonderful acts that our fathers related to us, saying, ‘Did Jehovah not bring us up out of Egypt?’ Now Jehovah has deserted us and given us into Midʹi·an’s hand.”

"Jehovah (or Jehovah's materialized angel) faced him and said: “Go with the strength you have, and you will save Israel out of Midʹi·an’s hand. Is it not I who send you ?” Gidʹe·on answered him: “Pardon me, Jehovah. How can I save Israel?"

"Look! My clan is the least in Ma·nasʹseh, and I am the most insignificant in my father’s house.” But Jehovah (or Jehovah's materialized angel) said to him: “Because I will be with you, you will strike down Midʹi·an as if they were one man.”(Judges 6:1, 11-16)

At 1 Corinthians 10:1-4, the apostle Paul identifies who this angel is, that visited Abraham, Moses and Gideon, saying: "Now I want you to know, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and all passed through the (Red) sea and all got baptized into Moses by means of the cloud and of the (Red) sea, and all ate the same spiritual food and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they used to drink from the spiritual rock (or angel) that followed them, and that rock meant the Christ (Jesus)."

Jesus Christ as Jehovah's angel, materialized and spoke to Jehovah's people, such as David at 2 Samuel 7 after having been told by Nathan the prophet that "Jehovah has told you that Jehovah will make a house for you. When your days (of life) come to an end and you are laid to rest with your forefathers, I will raise up your offspring after you, your own son, and I will firmly establish his kingdom."

The account now says that "King David came in and sat down before Jehovah (or Jehovah's materialized angel, later known as Jesus Christ) and said: “Who am I, O Sovereign Lord Jehovah? And what is my house that you have brought me this far? As if this were not enough, O Sovereign Lord Jehovah, you also speak about the house of your servant down to a distant future time; and this is instruction for all mankind, O Sovereign Lord Jehovah."(2 Sam 7:12, 13, 18, 19)

Just as a reminder, there are no J's in the scriptures.
For a very good reason.
The letter J first appeared in the 1400's and was not popular until the time of Shakespeare and the King James Version.

All those names that you may think that start with a J, actually start with a Y…. Yahweh, Yeshua, Yob, Yacob, Yames, Yoshua, Yohn, Yericho

No one knows where the word Jesus came from, it just appeared in the 17th century.