Exploring Trinitarian Logic

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Ritajanice

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And…??? Open EYES …
Look WHO Just Said THAT!

No Me….YOU.
You said on another post this.not biblical.

And….
EVERY single natural born human ABSOLUTELY DOES HAVE the exclusive say so:
TO BECOME “MADE” TRANSFORMED…BY the “MAKING” WORKS of the SPIRIT of God.

Which means what @Taken ?
 
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St. SteVen

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I ask again how do you know that Gods exists..by whose testimony?
seems you the spiritually ignorant one here.
Not sure what you are asking here.
I already replied:

St. SteVen said:
The indwelling Spirit.
The same Spirit that gives me understanding of the scriptures.
Not sure why the Spirit doesn't do that for you.

What is the answer from RJ's world?

[
 

Ritajanice

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Not sure what you are asking here.
I already replied:

St. SteVen said:
The indwelling Spirit.
The same Spirit that gives me understanding of the scriptures.
Not sure why the Spirit doesn't do that for you.

What is the answer from RJ's world?

[
Wrong answer.

Who testifies Of God’s truth to our spirit?

The Living Holy Spirit Of course..how else would I know in my spirit, that I’m Born Again?

Your intellect is very telling.
 

St. SteVen

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Nonsense. Utter and complete nonsense. There is no "God the Son" in Scripture.
What do you make of this?
Why does Jesus call himself "the Son of Man"?

Matthew 9:6 NIV
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”
So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”

[
 

Taken

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You said on another post this.
Same as it was unbiblical to say that all can be Born Again..false teaching..you cannot choose to be reborn in one’s spirit.,that is where you lack spiritual truth which is then backed up by the word.

No. I said every man “WAS OFFERED”…

Don’t you understand The plain Difference Between Being OFFERED Salvation….AND “TAKING” the OFFERING?

You present … yourself as being Chosen by God…thus A Done Deal!!!

Your Error! Not mine.
 

St. SteVen

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Wrong answer.

Who testifies Of God’s truth to our spirit?

The Living Holy Spirit Of course..how else would I know in my spirit, that I’m Born Again?

Your intellect is very telling.
You aren't playing fair.
I said "The indwelling Spirit." (capital S) = The Holy Spirit
And you say, "Wrong answer." ???
Because you wanted me to say, "The Living Holy Spirit" ???
So, you call me ignorant because I can't play your stupid game?

St. SteVen said:
The indwelling Spirit.
The same Spirit that gives me understanding of the scriptures.
Not sure why the Spirit doesn't do that for you.

[
 
J

Johann

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There is no "God the Son" in Scripture.
The combative @Wrangler.

Theological Doctrine of "God the Son" in Trinitarian Context

The phrase "God the Son" encapsulates the identity of Jesus Christ as the second person of the Trinity. While the exact wording does not appear, the concept is clearly revealed in Scripture through titles, actions, and descriptions of Jesus that affirm both His divinity and His distinct personhood within the Godhead. This is consistent with the biblical pattern of revealing divine truths without using systematic theological terminology (e.g., the word "Trinity" is also not in Scripture, yet the doctrine is clearly present).

2. Explicit Passages Affirming Jesus as God
John 1:1: "Ἐν ἀρχῇ ἦν ὁ Λόγος, καὶ ὁ Λόγος ἦν πρὸς τὸν θεόν, καὶ θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος."

Translation: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

This verse identifies the Logos (Word) as both distinct from God the Father ("with God") and fully divine ("the Word was God"). The Word, later revealed as Jesus (John 1:14), is therefore rightly called "God the Son."

John 20:28: "Ἀπεκρίθη Θωμᾶς καὶ εἶπεν αὐτῷ, Ὁ Κύριός μου καὶ ὁ Θεός μου."

Translation: "Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!'"

Thomas explicitly addresses Jesus as "my God" (ὁ Θεός μου), affirming His deity.

Hebrews 1:8: "Πρὸς δὲ τὸν Υἱόν· Ὁ θρόνος σου ὁ Θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος..."

Translation: "But to the Son He says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever...'"
This quotation from Psalm 45:6 identifies the Son as God (ὁ Θεὸς), showing the divine nature of the Son within the Godhead.

3. Passages Affirming the Sonship of Jesus

John 3:16: "Ὅτι οὕτως ἠγάπησεν ὁ Θεὸς τὸν κόσμον, ὥστε τὸν Υἱὸν τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν..."

Translation: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son..."

Jesus is uniquely identified as the "Son" (τὸν Υἱὸν), distinct from creation and in a unique relationship with God the Father.
Matthew 11:27: "Πάντα μοι παρεδόθη ὑπὸ τοῦ Πατρός μου..."

Translation: "All things have been handed over to Me by My Father..."

Jesus refers to God as "My Father" in a way that signifies His unique divine Sonship, distinct from all other creatures.

4. Combining the Deity and Sonship of Christ
The term "God the Son" synthesizes two biblical truths:

Jesus is fully God (John 1:1, John 20:28, Hebrews 1:8).
Jesus is uniquely the Son of God (John 3:16, Matthew 11:27).

Colossians 2:9: "ὅτι ἐν αὐτῷ κατοικεῖ πᾶν τὸ πλήρωμα τῆς θεότητος σωματικῶς."

Translation: "For in Him dwells all the fullness of deity bodily."

This affirms that Jesus is fully and completely God, while still being distinct in His person as the Son.

5. Jesus' Relationship with the Father Shows the Distinction of "God the Son"

John 5:18: Jesus called God His Father, making Himself "equal with God."

The Greek phrase ἴσον ἑαυτὸν ποιῶν τῷ θεῷ (making Himself equal with God) explicitly shows the divine equality between Jesus (the Son) and the Father.

John 17:5: "Καὶ νῦν δόξασόν με σύ, πάτερ, παρὰ σεαυτῷ τῇ δόξῃ ᾗ εἶχον πρὸ τοῦ τὸν κόσμον εἶναι παρὰ σοί."

Translation: "And now, Father, glorify Me in Your own presence with the glory I had with You before the world existed."

This passage demonstrates Jesus’ eternal preexistence and His sharing of divine glory with the Father before creation, consistent with the Son’s eternal deity.

6. Greek Syntax of Key Titles for Jesus
Ὁ Υἱὸς τοῦ Θεοῦ (Ho Huios tou Theou) – "The Son of God" (e.g., John 1:34, Matthew 16:16).

This title appears consistently in Scripture to affirm Jesus' unique Sonship, which distinguishes Him from all other sons of God (angels, believers, etc.).

Κύριος (Kyrios) – "Lord" (e.g., Philippians 2:11).

In the Greek Septuagint, Kyrios is used as the divine name for Yahweh. When applied to Jesus, it affirms His deity as "Lord" over all.

7. Conclusion Based on Scriptural Evidence

While the exact phrase "God the Son" is not used in the Bible, Scripture clearly teaches the concept.

The Son is explicitly called "God" (e.g., John 1:1, Hebrews 1:8) and is described as eternally existing in a relationship with the Father (e.g., John 17:5).

The absence of the phrase "God the Son" does not diminish the biblical truth that Jesus is fully God and fully the Son of God. The phrase is a theologically precise term summarizing the biblical evidence for the Son's divine identity and unique relationship within the Trinity.



J.
 
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Ritajanice

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No. I said every man “WAS OFFERED”…

Don’t you understand The plain Difference Between Being OFFERED Salvation….AND “TAKING” the OFFERING?

You present … yourself as being Chosen by God…thus A Done Deal!!!

Your Error! Not mine.
Not biblical...

You don’t understand chosen and predestined to become Born Again.

You said on another thread that you’re a Saint..only the elect/ Born Again are Saints?

How did you choose to become a Saint?

Have to go out, back later to check on your reply.
 

Wrangler

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What do you make of this?
Why does Jesus call himself "the Son of Man"?

Matthew 9:6 NIV
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”
So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”
God delegated his authority to his son and his son, in turn, delegated it to his apostles. John 20:23
If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.


What do you make of that? If forgiving sins proves one is a deity, then there is at least a 12-in-1 deity?

There is no "God the Son" in Scripture.

As a trinitarian, what do you make of the absence of "God the Son" and the absence of "God the Holy Spirit" with there being only "God the Father" (which is stated in every epistle)?
 
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Ritajanice

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You aren't playing fair.
I said "The indwelling Spirit." (capital S) = The Holy Spirit
And you say, "Wrong answer." ???
Because you wanted me to say, "The Living Holy Spirit" ???
So, you call me ignorant because I can't play your stupid game?

St. SteVen said:
The indwelling Spirit.
The same Spirit that gives me understanding of the scriptures.
Not sure why the Spirit doesn't do that for you.

[
Nice evasion trying to pin it on me..

The indwelling Spirit..how do you know it’s the indwelling Holy Spirit?

You never answered the question.
 

St. SteVen

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St. SteVen said:
What do you make of this?
Why does Jesus call himself "the Son of Man"?

Matthew 9:6 NIV
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”
So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”
God delegated his authority to his son and his son, in turn, delegated it to his apostles. John 20:23
If you forgive anyone’s sins, they are forgiven. If you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.


What do you make of that? If forgiving sins proves one is a deity, then there is at least a 12-in-1 deity?
That wasn't my point. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
Why would Jesus call himself the Son of Man? The fact that he was human was clear, so why state the obvious?
To say that he was the Son of Man points to his deity. The God man.

As a trinitarian, what do you make of the absence of "God the Son" and the absence of "God the Holy Spirit" with there being only "God the Father" (which is stated in every epistle)?
It doesn't bother me that the terms are absent. Other factors point to three persons in the godhead.
- Jesus was pre-existent as the Logos.
- The Holy Spirit is referred to as a person.
- Jesus refers to His Father.

[
 
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St. SteVen

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Nice evasion trying to pin it on me..

The indwelling Spirit..how do you know it’s the indwelling Holy Spirit?

You never answered the question.
Will you answer your own question, or are you still playing games?

Why do you think that the "The indwelling Spirit" is not the Holy Spirit?

I suppose you will say it is only a seed in us?

Do you have scripture to support your outlandish claims?

[
 

Wrangler

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That wasn't point.
Yet, I made the point, which you ignored. The pattern is clear. You don't want to discuss the topic and this is shown by you not answering the questions @Ritajanice or I ask.
It doesn't bother me that the terms are absent.
I did not ask you about your feelings. What do you, as a trinitarian, make of the absence of these terms? Do you suppose it is some kind of trick to confuse people? When the Bible says "there is only one God, the Father," that is not sufficient cause to reject the trinity? If not, what set of few words would?

To say that he was the Son of Man points to his deity.
One wonders what Jesus would have to say that you would deem is NOT "pointing" to his deity. In other words, you have an IDOL, not a hypothesis that can be tested and proven false.
 

PGS11

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The Trinity is a mystery of faith in the strict sense, one of the “mysteries that are hidden in God, which can never be known unless they are revealed by God.” To be sure, God has left traces of his Trinitarian being in his work of creation and in his revelation throughout the Old Testament.It will always be a mystery until it is revealed.
 

Taken

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What do you make of this?
Why does Jesus call himself "the Son of Man"?

Matthew 9:6 NIV
But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.”
So he said to the paralyzed man, “Get up, take your mat and go home.”


When you were naturally born …. Did your Daddy “say”….oh look…a boy baby…”As Long as That baby boy (you) IS ON this Earth….”I”. ( your Daddy ) WILL Be to that boy (you) “A Daddy to him (you)?
And that boy (you) WILL be to him (Daddy)…
A son?


The fact is as long as you are on Earth your Daddy is always your Daddy… whether you are a toddler, an adult, yourself a father…

God IN Heaven SAID….

Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

When???
Heb 10
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the worldhe saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Ritajanice
Wrangler
And many others DO not GET it…

God ON Earth is Called The Son.
Gods Word, IN Gods mouth, IN Heaven was sent forth from God To a Jewish females Virgin Womb, betrothed to a Jewish man OF the House of king David, IN A BODY GOD PREPARED, and nine months later was Delivered forth out from her womb…..Making Him, BY the LAW….a LAWFUL heir to king David’s Throne….

That delivered (forth from The Jewish females womb) MALE…was called JESUS…and for 30 Years was called “The Son of Man”…..Because He WAS the LAWFUL Son of Joseph and his Wife Mary.

He was called the Son of king David, because He IS lawfully OF the House of David…..

Only a Lawful Son of king David CAN Lawfully SIT in king Davids EVERLASTING throne …God established in JERUSALEM…
(Pss 93:2)

Thirty years LATER… God Revealed… THE DAY… JESUS was To become CALLED…. “THE Son of God”…..( just as Gabriel, A holy Servant of God….told Mary and Joseph….this Son , JESUS….”Would Become Called”.

Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Acts 13:
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.


And….BECAUSE….
Some Believe…Some Know…Some Understand….

And Others….Do Not Believe….OR Do Not Know….OR Do Not Understand….

There Will Always BE DIFFERENT Conclusions Between And Among humans.


I Trust Wholeheartedly To Believe…
The SAME AS Gods approved PSALMIST …major Prophet ISAIAH…major Prophet JEREMIAH …

Pss. 50:
[1] The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof.

Jer. 22:
[18] Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name,
[19]Great in counsel, and mighty in work:…


Isa 9:
[6] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Some Hear, Believe, Understand….
Others Do Not.

And where EACH individual Stands in Hearing, Belief, Understanding….is clearly revealed in their “own words” and “works”.

Glory to God,
Taken
 
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St. SteVen

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Yet, I made the point, which you ignored. The pattern is clear. You don't want to discuss the topic and this is shown by you not answering the questions @Ritajanice or I ask.

I did not ask you about your feelings. What do you, as a trinitarian, make of the absence of these terms? Do you suppose it is some kind of trick to confuse people? When the Bible says "there is only one God, the Father," that is not sufficient cause to reject the trinity? If not, what set of few words would?


One wonders what Jesus would have to say that you would deem is NOT "pointing" to his deity. In other words, you have an IDOL, not a hypothesis that can be tested and proven false.
The behavior of you both is nothing short of nasty.

[
 

Ritajanice

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The behavior of you both is nothing short of nasty.

[
Your behaviour is nasty, take a look at your own behaviour... don’t put the blame on us and yes I can support my claim, the Spirit testifies with our spirit.,,get that? testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children...it called a Living spiritual rebirth ,by = supernatural divine heart revelation.

No one can say that Jesus is Lord except by the Living Holy Spirit.


Romans 8​

King James Version​

8 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God
:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.
24 For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for?
25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Ritajanice

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Yet, I made the point, which you ignored. The pattern is clear. You don't want to discuss the topic and this is shown by you not answering the questions @Ritajanice or I ask.

I did not ask you about your feelings. What do you, as a trinitarian, make of the absence of these terms? Do you suppose it is some kind of trick to confuse people? When the Bible says "there is only one God, the Father," that is not sufficient cause to reject the trinity? If not, what set of few words would?


One wonders what Jesus would have to say that you would deem is NOT "pointing" to his deity. In other words, you have an IDOL, not a hypothesis that can be tested and proven false.
Exactly, I’m out of this thread..catch you in another, wrangler.
 
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