Exploring Trinitarian Logic

[face2face]

This is your belief, and you're forced to twist it in order to fit your misguided narrative. J.

Unfortunately, I have presented at least seven examples, but you've dismissed them all due to your preconceived Trinitarian beliefs. I'll leave you to reflect on the evidence in your own time, Johann. It was interesting to see your reactions, but now it’s becoming tedious watching you struggle with the text and search for the right information to copy and paste.

He was redeemed from death - but you know this - but if you don't acknowledge it you may not be apart of it!

“And you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in THE BODY of his flesh through death” Col 1:21

However you don't believe Jesus is part of his own BODY, right?!

F2F

 

[Johann]

Unfortunately, I have presented at least seven examples, but you've dismissed them all due to your preconceived Trinitarian beliefs. I'll leave you to reflect on the evidence in your own time, Johann. It was interesting to see your reactions, but now it’s becoming tedious watching you struggle with the text and search for the right information to copy and paste.

He was redeemed from death - but you know this - but if you don't acknowledge it you may not be apart of it!

“And you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in THE BODY of his flesh through death” Col 1:21

However you don't believe Jesus is part of his own BODY, right?!

F2F

You still err, Messiah needed no redemption, He was saved out from the dead ones or rather out from among the dead.

To imply Jesus needed redemption He must have been a sinner-this how you believe?

Unfortunately for you ALL your references have NOTHING to do with Jesus in need of redemption, stop embarrassing yourself.

This is Gospel 101.

J.

 

[face2face]

You still err, Messiah needed no redemption, He was saved out from the dead ones or rather out from among the dead.

You believe in pretend tears don't you Johann - go on be honest!

In the days of his flesh, (context, yes!) Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him (God) who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Heb 5:7

Who was he praying to?
Why strong crying?
From what did he need saving (redemption)

To imply Jesus needed redemption He must have been a sinner-this how you believe?

Again, you show your ignorance! Havn't taken in a single word! Blind!

This is Gospel 101.

And you need to resit.

F2F

 

[face2face]

I could be mistaken, but I think there might be some Trinitarians reading this, wondering how Johann can still maintain his faith when he struggles to respond to even the simplest questions from the clearest verses.

I would genuinely be interested to hear from any honest Trinitarians who could provide an honest assessment of Johann's responses to clear Scriptural teaching.

I don't believe all Trinitarians hold the same views as Johann.

F2F

 

[Johann]

From what did he need saving (redemption)

You have the biblical metaphors scrambled hence your foundation is slowly giving away.

J.

 

[face2face]

You have the biblical metaphors scrambled hence your foundation is slowly giving away.

J.

Again, no answer.

If you can't give an answer of the hope that is in you, what are we to assume? 1 Peter 3:15

F2F

 

[face2face]

“And you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in THE BODY of his flesh through death” Col 1:21

You don't believe Jesus is part of his own BODY, right?!

Why "in" the Body of his flesh Johann?

 

[Johann]

Again, no answer.

If you can't give an answer of the hope that is in you, what are we to assume? 1 Peter 3:15

F2F

Concede, you don't know what you are talking about.

J.

 

[face2face]

Concede, you don't know what you are talking about.

J.

Johann, still no answers?

Why would Jesus be praying to God with strong crying and tears to be saved from death?

Surely you know, because I don't know what I am talking about so please explain.

F2F

5:7 During his earthly life Christ offered both requests and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death and he was heard because of his devotion Heb 5:7.

 

[face2face]

Surely you can provide your insights?

 

[face2face]

“And you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in THE BODY of his flesh through death” Col 1:21

You don't believe Jesus is part of his own BODY, right?!

Why "in" the Body of his flesh Johann?

What did God accomplish in the Body of His Flesh that makes reconciliation possible?

 

[David in NJ]

Unfortunately, I have presented at least seven examples, but you've dismissed them all due to your preconceived Trinitarian beliefs. I'll leave you to reflect on the evidence in your own time, Johann. It was interesting to see your reactions, but now it’s becoming tedious watching you struggle with the text and search for the right information to copy and paste.

He was redeemed from death - but you know this - but if you don't acknowledge it you may not be apart of it!

“And you that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in THE BODY of his flesh through death” Col 1:21

However you don't believe Jesus is part of his own BODY, right?!

F2F

@Johann has you cornered in your error

 

[David in NJ]

Johann, still no answers?

Why would Jesus be praying to God with strong crying and tears to be saved from death?

Surely you know, because I don't know what I am talking about so please explain.

F2F

5:7 During his earthly life Christ offered both requests and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to the one who was able to save him from death and he was heard because of his devotion Heb 5:7.

HE/the WORD that was God emptied HIMSELF and became a man, thereby subjecting HIMSELF to the WILL of the FATHER for
unimaginable SUFFERING that you and i and @Johann deserved.

Maybe try placing your mind in HIS SUFFERING so that you can SEE your sins!!!

 

[Johann]

Surely you can provide your insights?

You have left many of my questions unanswered and those I have answered you twisted my words.

J.

 

[Johann]

@Johann has you cornered in your error

And he will stay there. In his error.

J.

 

[David in NJ]

And he will stay there.

J.

When people on these forums willfully reject clear and repeating Truth from Scripture, i say to them the same = remain as you are

i know that you are like me = we are not content with our weak condition and rather desire to be filled with His LIGHT

Where there is LIGHT, there is GROWTH
and where there is GROWTH, there is FRUIT

SHALOM my Brother in YAHshua HaMashiach

 

[Johann]

When people on these forums willfully reject clear and repeating Truth from Scripture, i say to them the same = remain as you are

i know that you are like me = we are not content with our weak condition and rather desire to be filled with His LIGHT

Where there is LIGHT, there is GROWTH
and where there is GROWTH, there is FRUIT

SHALOM my Brother in YAHshua HaMashiach

Shalom achi, v'shalom lecha u'l'mishpacht'cha.

J.

 

[Ritajanice]

@David in NJ @Wrangler ..as you both know I’m staying open minded on the subject matter.

Just a question, Jesus human body died on that cross did it not, didn’t a guard or someone stick a spear into Jesus side to make sure his body was dead, he also cried out to God why have you forsaken me.

If Jesus hadn’t of been divine, then how could God have raised his body from the dead, a glorified body at that?

If you or I had died on the cross in Jesus place, our bodies couldn’t have been raised because they were sinful bodies, whereas Jesus was able to be raised because he was spotless without blemish, how on earth could he have got through all those trials and tribulations that he was met with along the way, if he wasn’t divine / anointed by God to be able to do so?

Hope that makes sense, just my thoughts on the subject of Trinity.

 

[APAK]

@Wrangler @APAK

You will notice:

this:

And he (Jesus) was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood,

Comes before this:

and the name by which he is called is The Word of God.

Christ being raised up in sins flesh and being redeemed by his own blood resulted in him being called "The Word of God"

Now think about that for a moment!

The Lord was, is, and will be the complete manifestation of the Law and Prophets: they find absolute fulfilment in him. It is significant that whereas in the Gospel the title of The Word, or The Logos is absolute (John 1:1), here it is qualified, as of God.

Can you see the qualification?

Of course, this is easy to see, the qualification, for me at least, and I've have pointing this out to many over the years...harmonizing here with this tune you are playing F2F

 

[APAK]

Now @Wrangler @APAK

We need to leave the Trinitarians behind again, not willingly, but of their own choosing!

Look and marvel at this:

And the armies of heaven, arrayed in fine linen, white and pure, were following him (Christ) on white horses. Re 19:14.

The forces in the coming political landscape will consist of the glorified redeemed (us!), those who are "called, chosen, and faithful" and who will be with the Lord at that time (Rev 17:14). The Gospel call is an invitation to enlist in this divine army

Share in suffering as a good soldier of Christ Jesus. No soldier gets entangled in civilian pursuits, since his aim is to please the one who enlisted him! 2 Ti 2:2–4.

Success in this army requires discipline and training, demanding a commitment of both mind and body to be effective soldiers. In that army, yet to be revealed on earth, the prophetic title of Yahweh Sabaoth — "He Who commands armies" — will be fully realized, the belligerent title of Deity as seen in Isa. 9:7.

Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end, on the throne of David and over his kingdom, to establish it and to uphold it with justice and with righteousness from this time forth and forevermore. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will do this. Is 9:7.

The Glorified Saints become Yahweh Sabaoth (the redeemed from the earth) with Christ as their Captain.

View attachment 56591

He is the firstfruits of the resurrection, the firstborn... the beginning of His creation!

The beginning of his creation that will eventually be brought into the hand of the Father, forever. The entire campaign is then completed, where we will have everlasting peace in God, as he will be all and in all