The Word is eternal, but there came a point where the Father sent the Word to became human by the power of the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary, which is called an "incarnation". "Incarnating" is not the same as "being created".
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Exploring Anti-trinitarian Logic
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The Word is eternal, but there came a point where the Father sent the Word to became human by the power of the Holy Spirit in the womb of Mary, which is called an "incarnation". "Incarnating" is not the same as "being created".
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Anti Trinitarian logic has the same problem that any other Anti Orthodox belief has; it holds to an Either/Or stance instead of a Both/And stance. This is what has to be proven; can a Both/And position can be True? If it can, then Monotheistic Trinitarianism should be given a fair shake...
If it cannot be proven, then we should vehemently deny that in Marriage; it's True in any sense of the Term that "The Two shall become One "...
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Yes.
Sent His Word.
(Isa 55:11)
No.
In a body God Prepared
(Heb 10:5)
in the Likeness AS a Jewish man.
(Phil 2:8)
Sent to Virgin womb of a faithful woman betrothed to a man of the House of David.
A Form is the Body,
Jesus’ FORM , is Gods FORM (equal/same)when A human man takes upon himself, Gods Armor, does that created human become God the Creator?
(Phil 2:6)
Jesus took “upon Himself”, The Form (of a manKIND Servant), God Prepared.
(Phil 2:7)
When a man has breast implants, (changing the outer appearance of his Form), has that human man become a human woman?
When an Angel takes upon himself the outer appearance of a human, does that Angel become a Human?
Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
1 Cor 1:
[24] But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
I am of the belief humans Are Created and Made…
And;
The Lord God Almighty Is One Creator and Maker Holy God and Not the Created.
John 1:
[30] I and my Father are one.
Glory to God,
Taken
You don't realize it, but you're citing verses that confirm the Word became human, just as John wrote.
Adam and Eve weren't created, nor conceived by two human parents, in the way that you and and I were, yet they were humans too, just as the Word became human through incarnation, not by being created the way Adam and Eve were, nor naturally conceived by two human parents.
Correct, but God is not only one but also trine: the Thought (the Father), the Word (the Son), and the Holy Spirit. The Word is the only Person of the Holy Trinity that became human (incarnated not created), indicating that prior to becoming human, the Word preexisted invisibly and incorporeally. The Thought (the Father) and the Holy Spirit remain invisible and incorporeal, but They are seen in the works which were or are carried out by Them.
No, but how is that scenario relevant here?
If an angel appears as an incorporeal spirit in human form, then that means they can't die a corporeal death. The Word was incorporeal and invisible, until the Word was sent to die, and the Word couldn't have accomplished that incorporeally. That's why the Word was incarnated as a human by being begotten by the Holy Spirit in the virgin womb of Mary, was born, and died, shedding real blood through the wounds of a real flesh as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
No.
The Lord does not Change.
No. Humans come from and return to dust of the Earth.
Do you worship Jesus, whom you say was human?
Yes, you just don't realize it.
Yes. If an angel appears as an incorporeal spirit in human form, then that means they can't die a corporeal death. The Word was incorporeal and invisible, until the Word was sent to die, and the Word couldn't have accomplished that incorporeally. That's why the Word was incarnated as a human by being begotten by the Holy Spirit in the virgin womb of Mary, was born, and died, shedding real blood through the wounds of a real flesh as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.
What are bones? A proof of the power of God Who made man with dust, but nothing else. The Word became a human and was named "Jesus". Jesus had bones. During His crucifixion, the nails went through His bones. He shed real blood through the wounds of a real flesh and died as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.
God is one and trine: the Thought (the Father), the Word (the Son), and the Holy Spirit. The Word is the only Person of the Holy Trinity that became human (incarnated not created), was born, given the name "Jesus", and died, and thus I do worship Jesus (the Word) because that Person of the Holy Trinity is not only now a human but still God as well. The Thought (the Father) and the Holy Spirit remain invisible and incorporeal, but They are seen in the works which were or are carried out by Them.
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Taken
Well-Known Member
No.
Ok. Thanks for sharing you worship a human, you call a god.
John 1:
[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
John 1:
[13] Which were born,
Glory to God,
Taken
So, you deny Jesus's torture and death? Jesus was hit, scourged and nailed to the cross. The whip tore into his skin. The nails punctured His skin, bones, muscles, and so on. He shed real blood through the wounds of a real flesh and died as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.
I didn't say that Jesus was "a god" which implies that there's more than one god and there isn't.
"But as many as received him, to them he gave the right to become God’s children, to those who believe in his name: who were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (Jn. 1:12-13)
Taken
Well-Known Member
Hum. Did “i” say that…No, I did not say that.
No.
Well aware of the body God “prepared” Him, for when and why.
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Yes, you just don’t realize it.
Of course there are numerous gods.
Ex 20:
[1] And God spake all these words, saying,
[3] Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
You deny that Jesus experienced torture and death by denying that He's a human.
You cite Heb 10:5 not realizing that it's just another verse that confirms Jesus became human to accomplish dying for humanity.
I said I worship God Who's one and trine. And, if you think God is saying that there's other deities that exist then you don't believe there's only God Who's one and trine that exists.
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...one and tri(u)ne at the same time. I made a nonsense jingle chorus line for you you can use..
So now the Father is the thought, and the Son is also the thought/word and trailing behind as usual, of not much importance is the HS.
I wonder why you don't add in the spirit of God into the mix, you know the other Spirit, of God that you believe is different from the HS.
You have yet to prove the one essence bit using scripture. Just saying something because it feels right, does not make it true. What is the basis of your logic, that they, all three work together, and there's no scripture where one does not know as much as the other. And yet there's loads of scripture to show only the Father knows all, and is present in all, and is the creator of all of course.
I made or coded a computer program using a language compiler loaded on my computer. All three work together to produce a purpose or function, and I guess each part has a different mechanical/software personality. One usually gets bugs in it, and I have to clean them all out before the overly judgmental compiler runs/processes my code successfully. And then the 3rd part sometimes gets too sentimental and crashed the entire party, although it all usually works out in the end.
The Thought (the Father), the Word (the Son), and the Holy Spirit.
Clarify, please
In the opening post, I cited scriptural verses that say God is Love, and another that shows God is trine: the Thought (the Father), the Word (the Son), and the Holy Spirit, and thus They are united as one in Essence: Love, as well as gave an example in Scripture of each working differently, and yet not working in contrary fashion. You have yet to answer the question posed to anti-trinitarians such as yourself.
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Are you kidding me. Your so called question is a super-loaded string of false axioms/premises and opinions, promoting lies and men's unscriptural doctrines. And then it ends up by pointing a gun to the head of a supposed non-Trinitarian, of the lie they believe Christ was born to a two human parents. Get real here...
Are you for real or what. For homework I suggest you breakdown your immature super large question into at least 6 intelligible ones.
I would write a simple question, like do you believe that Christ was born to two human parents?
And my answer is of course NO! Did you expect another answer?
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I always considered that view as true. We are expected to accept that concept, that two become one in marriage; furthermore when creating Adam, God said it is not good that man be alone.
>> So here lies a hypothetical questions for the Non- Trinitarian:
1. If God said it is not good for man to be alone, wouldn't that imply that God is not alone, one soul _ all alone _ by Himself _ before creating man or angels, but three persons?
2. Given that God is LOVE and love usually requires more than one person, shouldn't expect that God is more than one person? I mean, how could He be all alone before He created anything and be a true expression of love if there was no one else to direct His love towards?
3. Furthermore, before creation, Who did he communicate with? Was He just sitting on His throne, thinking?
A more reasonable understanding of God is that God is three and we see that mentioned in scripture: distinct persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
In the beginning, God said, "Let us make man in Our image". Do not try to imply God was speaking to angels, for they did not praticipate in creation.
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It's one thing trying to figure out the life of God in his realm and existence, and it's another to speculate and then impose into scripture these thoughts and inquiries. This is the primary method that Trinitarians have used to formulate their doctrine, as in any pagan philosophy. It is where man attempts to elevate himself to God, in knowing Godly things and then to humanize scripture in many areas, for man's sake and not God's sake.
Ronald David Bruno
Well-Known Member
I erased those scriptures, they got posted before I finished. I'm sure that has happened to you.
Why not try to answer the questions? And reread my post. At the end I provide a scripture, Gen. 1:26
" Let us make man in OUR IMAGE".
Let me impose that scripture to support my questions. And as I said, angels did not create us, so Who is GOD referring to when God says OUR IMAGE?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Your nonsense, false accusations and gaslighting does Not affect my Spiritual Understanding or secure Standing IN Christ.
* God IS Spirit.
* God Does NOT Change.
* Gods Word, IS God.
* Gods Estate IS ABOVE the Heavens.
* Gods Estate is Off Limits for His Creations to Go.
* Gods Glory IS His Absolute PERFECTION.
* Gods Word has been coming Forth out from Gods mouth since the beginning.
* WHEN Gods Word comes forth out from His mouth, His Word continues to Remain IN Him.
* God IS The Creator.
* God IS the Maker.
* God IS omniscient.
* God IS omnipotent.
* God IS omnipresent.
God IS Invisible to His Natural ManKIND Creations.
* God HAS multiple Names, Titles, Descriptions.
* God Reveals By, Through, Of His Word… which Specific Descriptions, Names, Titles God Purposes IN Himself
Which DOES WHAT, WHEN, HOW, WHY… For God TO SERVE God Himself according TO Gods Will.
I said there ARE other gods.
I quoted Gods Command to Keep Him above all OTHER gods.
Whatever an individual worships Because that individual honors that thing as BEING absolute Flawless Perfection, is that individuals god.
You are not qualified to Think, Decide and Speak FOR Me.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Agree.
That yet does not apply to me…however regarding your following question…
God “communicated” with and in Himself.
His Will, His Word, His Power…
God upfront called, Us / Our, in Genesis.
More detailed called, Council, in Isaiah.
The “revelation” and “importance” IS the Whole of God;
Ideas, Plans, Thoughts, Will, Word, Power, Intents, Acts are ALWAYS in PERFECT Union and AGREEMENT.
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
I know that you don't want to deny Jesus's torture and death. I know you don't think that you're denying Jesus's torture and death, but you are by denying that He was human. How could He have accomplished His mission of dying for us if He hadn't become human to do so? Jesus wasn't on the earth as an incorporeal spirit taking the form of a human, because if He was then He couldn't have died.
God is also one and trine: the Thought (the Father), the Word (the Son), and the Holy Spirit. The Word is the only Person of the Holy Trinity that became human (incarnated not created), but still the Word, by the power of the Holy Spirit, was born of the virgin Mary, given the name "Jesus", and died, whereas The Thought (the Father) and the Holy Spirit remained invisible and incorporeal in Heaven, but They are seen in the works which were or are carried out by Them. Jesus (the Word) shed real blood through the wounds of a real flesh and died as proof of being a man—and rose again and ascended to Heaven with His glorified body—as proof of being God returning to His eternal dwelling.
Anyone who places anything or anyone above the one triune God is disobeying His commandment. The Word is the Second Person of the Holy Trinity, and the Word became human, and thus that Person of the Holy Trinity is no longer incorporeal and invisible, and was named "Jesus", but still the Word, and thus it's not disobedience to worship Him as He's still also God.
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I didn't say that anti-trinitarians believe that the Christ (Messiah) was naturally conceived by two human parents, but rather asked them to give their explanation for why He wasn't. So, again, if you have one, what is your explanation for why it was necessary that the Christ (Messiah) be the Word (Jn. 1:1), sent by the Father (Jn. 3:17;34;5:30;6:38;7:28-29;8:29;11:42;12:49;17:3;20:21;1 Jn. 4:9), and be begotten by the Holy Spirit and become human (indicating that prior to becoming human the Word preexisted invisibly and incorporeally), and born of the Virgin (Matt. 1:20, Lk. 1:31;35, Jn. 1:14), rather than be a naturally conceived human by two human parents?
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