End time prophecy

[tailgator]

Why did the Judaean Christians flee and survive?

I don't know that they fleed in 70.ad.
For all I know they had left to preach the gospel throughout the world.

How many apostles and disciples are you saying stayed in judea till 70.ad?
Do you have a count?

 

[covenantee]

I don't know that they fleed in 70.ad.
For all I know they had left to preach the gospel throughout the world.

How many apostles and disciples are you saying stayed in judea till 70.ad?
Do you have a count?

So you don't believe that the Judaean Christians fled and survived?

Father of Church History Eusebius:

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem, so that when holy men had altogether deserted the royal capital of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea…”

— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3

 

[covenantee]

It depends how long the Nazis wanted to keep someone alive.
I million Jews compared to 6 million.

And you believe the greater tribulation was 1 million Jews in 70 ad compared to 6 million Jews and 80 million gentiles in WW2.

Tormented and starved en masse by their own countrymen in 70 AD.

From the Jewish Virtual LIbrary:

"The highly embittered refugees who succeeded in escaping the Galilean massacres fled to the last major Jewish stronghold—Jerusalem. There, they killed anyone in the Jewish leadership who was not as radical as they. Thus, all the more moderate Jewish leaders who headed the Jewish government at the revolt's beginning in 66 were dead by 68—and not one died at the hands of a Roman. All were killed by fellow Jews."

"While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted."

 

[tailgator]

So you don't believe that the Judaean Christians fled and survived?

Father of Church History Eusebius:

The people of the Church in Jerusalem were commanded by an oracle given by revelation before the war to those in the city who were worthy of it to depart and dwell in one of the cities of Perea which they called Pella. To it those who believed on Christ traveled from Jerusalem, so that when holy men had altogether deserted the royal capital of the Jews and the whole land of Judaea…”

— Eusebius, Church History 3, 5, 3

What year does it say they left?
I'm not sure what you feel christians are supposed to do in a war.What were they going to fight for if they stayed?
Christians have been leaving Israel and the West Bank for the same reasonsc through the decades since Israel became a nation.They don't want to be a part of the turmoil.

 

[tailgator]

Tormented and starved en masse by their own countrymen in 70 AD.

From the Jewish Virtual LIbrary:

"The highly embittered refugees who succeeded in escaping the Galilean massacres fled to the last major Jewish stronghold—Jerusalem. There, they killed anyone in the Jewish leadership who was not as radical as they. Thus, all the more moderate Jewish leaders who headed the Jewish government at the revolt's beginning in 66 were dead by 68—and not one died at the hands of a Roman. All were killed by fellow Jews."

"While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted."

So you believe 1 million Jews dying of far greater tribulation that 6 million Jews and 80 million gentiles dying.

Ok

 

[tailgator]

Tormented and starved en masse by their own countrymen in 70 AD.

From the Jewish Virtual LIbrary:

"The highly embittered refugees who succeeded in escaping the Galilean massacres fled to the last major Jewish stronghold—Jerusalem. There, they killed anyone in the Jewish leadership who was not as radical as they. Thus, all the more moderate Jewish leaders who headed the Jewish government at the revolt's beginning in 66 were dead by 68—and not one died at the hands of a Roman. All were killed by fellow Jews."

"While the Romans would have won the war in any case, the Jewish civil war both hastened their victory and immensely increased the casualties. One horrendous example: In expectation of a Roman siege, Jerusalem's Jews had stockpiled a supply of dry food that could have fed the city for many years. But one of the warring Zealot factions burned the entire supply, apparently hoping that destroying this "security blanket" would compel everyone to participate in the revolt. The starvation resulting from this mad act caused suffering as great as any the Romans inflicted."

PS
Was there a great earthquake and fearful signs in the heavens caused by the Romans?

Just curious.

Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.


Oh wait,you said there were no christians who stayed to see any of these things. They even missed Jesus and were not redeemed because they all ran away .

Dang.

 

[covenantee]

What year does it say they left?
I'm not sure what you feel christians are supposed to do in a war.What were they going to fight for if they stayed?
Christians have been leaving Israel and the West Bank for the same reasonsc through the decades since Israel became a nation.They don't want to be a part of the turmoil.

They left in 66 AD when commander Cestius Gallus briefly withdrew the Roman forces.

They hadn't left until they recognized the warning recorded in Luke 21:20-21.

 

[Ziggy]

Just thinking...

2Ki 22:14
So Hilkiah the priest, and Ahikam, and Achbor, and Shaphan, and Asahiah, went unto Huldah the prophetess, the wife of Shallum the son of Tikvah, the son of Harhas, keeper of the wardrobe; (now she dwelt in Jerusalem in the college;) and they communed with her.
2Ki 22:15
And she said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Tell the man that sent you to me,
2Ki 22:16
Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will bring evil upon this place, and upon the inhabitants thereof, even all the words of the book which the king of Judah hath read:
2Ki 22:17
Because they have forsaken me, and have burned incense unto other gods, that they might provoke me to anger with all the works of their hands; therefore my wrath shall be kindled against this place, and shall not be quenched.
2Ki 22:18
But to the king of Judah which sent you to enquire of the LORD, thus shall ye say to him, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, As touching the words which thou hast heard;
2Ki 22:19
Because thine heart was tender, and thou hast humbled thyself before the LORD, when thou heardest what I spake against this place, and against the inhabitants thereof, that they should become a desolation and a curse, and hast rent thy clothes, and wept before me; I also have heard thee, saith the LORD.
2Ki 22:20
Behold therefore, I will gather thee unto thy fathers, and thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace; and thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place. And they brought the king word again.

If this is also prophetic, which sounds like a lot of tribulation to me, who is the king of Judah represented by today?
Who is crying out for humanity?
I see a lot of puppets in this game being played. Some so bad you would think they were waiting with anticipation to watch the world blow itself up. For what? Money, Fame, Rank? Their not going to be here to enjoy it bunker or not.
Even if they move to Mars, karma will find them. And they have no slaves unless they bring some of us along.
Carrot and stick. Here come with us and you will be safe, all the while they just creating a new colony.
Or putting you on a train to dig mines or put down.

Some people believe that all the people in Noah's lineage had passed away before the flood.
Thou shalt be gathered into thy grave in peace.
And you can't have a ressurection unless one passes through death or the shaddow of death.
Revelation says the woman is hid in the wilderness. Is that an image of the shaddow of death? A wilderness, wandering, a passing through?

Thine eyes shall not see all the evil which I will bring upon this place.
So what does God consider evil?
Evil in his eyes or evil in ours?

Sometimes to demolish is the only way to rebuild. But what do you do with the inhabitants in the process?
Now would that be evil? So I hear this verse:
Rom 9:22
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

vessels of wrath... vessels of hatred.
So what is going on in your world?
Apparently I have too much time on my hands and thinking too much LOL
Hugs

 

[tailgator]

They left in 66 AD when commander Cestius Gallus briefly withdrew the Roman forces.

They hadn't left until they recognized the warning recorded in Luke 21:20-21.

So no one saw anything.
Not a single eye saw Jesus and no one was redeemed.


Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

 

[covenantee]

So you believe 1 million Jews dying of far greater tribulation that 6 million Jews and 80 million gentiles dying.

Ok

Did 6 million Jews die of starvation, crucifixion, etc.?

The 70 AD tribulation represented God's Divine Wrath upon the apostate nation of Israel.

It was and is unsurpassed in brutality, bestiality, and savagery before or since.

 

[covenantee]

So no one saw anything.

Only if they were blind.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

 

[Ziggy]

This time it's coming upon the whole world and not just a nation.
Reminds me of Jeremiah chapter 4 and the world becoming void... again.
I suppose the flood was pretty devastating and this time is fire.
On one level I see this as the water baptism and the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
On another level I see the destruction of the world, carnal, earthy manifested.

1Co 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

This is like a pinch of salt before we begin to remember Lot's wife and become pillars of salt ourselves.
Don't look back.
Mar 13:16
And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.

Humility, embarrasment, disgrace.... we will get caught naked like Peter.

Jhn 21:7
Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.

Like father like son lol. Son of Jonah.

World is moving fast... so many plates spinning at the same time, it's hard to keep up.


Hugs

 

[tailgator]

Did 6 million Jews die of starvation, crucifixion, etc.?

The 70 AD tribulation represented God's Divine Wrath upon the apostate nation of Israel.

It was and is unsurpassed in brutality, bestiality, and savagery before or since.

The Holocaust was God's word being fulfilled as well..
6 million Jews dead of decease,starvation,being shot,flee infestation ,gas chambers.

A living breathing slow death.

 

[tailgator]

Only if they were blind.

Luke 21
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

So why of all the christians that left Judea,none of them reported seeing Jesus?
Why don't you quote some of the people who saw Jesus ?
I'd love to read their testimonies of Christs coming.


25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

 

[covenantee]

The Holocaust was God's word being fulfilled as well..
6 million Jews dead of decease,starvation,being shot,flee infestation ,gas chambers.

A living breathing slow death.

View attachment 48889

Starvation by their own countrymen?

 

[covenantee]

So why of all the christians that left Judea,none of them reported seeing Jesus?
Why don't you quote some of the people who saw Jesus ?
I'd love to read their testimonies of Christs coming.


25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

So therefore they didn't flee?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So no one saw anything.
Not a single eye saw Jesus and no one was redeemed.


Luke 21
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.

No one is saying Luke 21:25-28 was fulfilled back then. You're missing the reference to "the times of the Gentiles" in verse 24 that started in 70 AD and lasts right up until what is described in verses 25 to 28. The times of the Gentiles refers to the time period during which the Jews no longer have had a temple since it was destroyed in 70 AD.

 

[Jay Ross]

No one is saying Luke 21:25-28 was fulfilled back then. You're missing the reference to "the times of the Gentiles" in verse 24 that started in 70 AD and lasts right up until what is described in verses 25 to 28. The times of the Gentiles refers to the time period during which the Jews no longer have had a temple since it was destroyed in 70 AD.

If the time of the gentiles will end in around 20 years into our future around the year 2044 AD when the Kings of the Gentile world will be judged, at the place called Armageddon, for their part in trampling God's earthly hosts, Israel, and if the duration of the time of the gentiles is 2,300 years based on a year for each day prophesied, then the trampling of God's earthly hosts began around the year 250 + BC.

From around 250 + BC both the God's sanctuary and His earthly hosts were being trampled by the Little Horn because of His influence over the armies that he was being given during the 2,300 years of the Daniel 8 Prophecy.

The prophecy of the destruction of the Temple and the scattering of the Israelites to the four corners of the earth is actually found in 2 Chronicles 12:19-22: -

2 Chronicles 12:19-22: - 19 “But if you turn away and forsake My statutes and My commandments which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods, and worship them, 20 then I will uproot them from My land which I have given them; and this house which I have sanctified for My name I will cast out of My sight, and will make it a proverb and a byword among all peoples.​

​

21 “And as for this house, which is exalted, everyone who passes by it will be astonished and say, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this land and this house?’ 22 Then they will answer, ‘Because they forsook the Lord God of their fathers, who brought them out of the land of Egypt, and embraced other gods, and worshiped them and served them; therefore He has brought all this calamity on them.’ ”​

I thrust that this helps in providing the context of the time of the Gentiles.

Shalom

 

[David in NJ]

Matthew 24 shows us that our Lord Jesus Christ expects us to be keeping the Sabbath up to His second coming. Please follow along.
There are three questions asked by the Apostles in verse 3. First is when shall the Temple be destroyed. The second is when shall be the sign of Jesus' coming. And the third is when shall be the end of the world.
.
Matt 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
Matt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

All three questions are answered as one. Everything Jesus says is connected to what is previously stated by the use of particles, conjunctive particles and adverbs. These conjunctive particles are "and" which is copulative and sometimes culminative in nature. "For", which assigns a reason to what was previously stated. "But" which is adversative or continuative in nature.

Verse 9 starts with the adverb then. Everything previously stated leads up to this point by the use of the particles, for in verse 5 and in verse 6, and for in verse 7. And all this is said in direct context to verse 6 in respect to the end being not yet.


Matt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Matt 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
Matt 24:7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
Matt 24:8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
Matt 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

But that is not the end of it. Jesus continues in verses 10-14 with the conjunctive particle and, and, and, but respectively. Which means he is continuing, adding on to what He had already said.

In this respect he continues to tie everything he is about to say to what was previously stated in verse 6, that the end not yet. There is not a break. It is the same context. And that context is in respect the end not yet being.


Matt 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
Matt 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Matt 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
Matt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Matt 24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Verses 15-20 are a little different in the words being used. Verse 15 starts off with two conjunctive particles. These words as you can see are when and therefore. And the word "see" is being said in the second person. So we get, "when you therefore see". The words "when ye therefore" tie into what Jesus already said to what he is about to say. So the proceeding text adds to what was said in respect to what will occur before the end that is not yet. It says when you shall see the abomination of desolations spoken by Daniel standing in the Holy Place.

The abomination of desolation is the culmination of the signs in which we will see in relation to the question as to when the end is. Verses 6 and 13 solidify this context in that they mention the end. When we see the abomination of desolation standing in the holy place we are instructed, if in Judea to flee into the Mountains quickly. And to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor on the Sabbath Day. Since we see that this prophecy is about when the end is, we see that this is speaking of the time right before Jesus, coming and the end of this world. As was said, verses 6 and 13 have set the context to which Jesus is speaking. And the context is the answer as to when the end would be. Keep in mind Jesus is talking to His Apostles, the first Christians. Therefore He is speaking to us.

Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
Matt 24:16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
Matt 24:17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
Matt 24:18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
Matt 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
Matt 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

As you can see in respect to when the end shall be, our Lord and Savior councils us in verse 20 to flee when we see the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place, and to pray that our flight not be in the winter nor on the Sabbath Day. Which means prior to the end Jesus expected His followers, us to be resting on the Sabbath and keeping the day Holy. The fact that Judea is mentioned means that the abomination of desolation standing in the Holy Place is tied to that region. Whether it is being said in respect to the destruction of the Temple or something else is subject to debate. Most believe it is. We would teach the abomination of desolation would be the building of it in the name of our God and Father rather than the destruction. Even the very site in which it was is nothing since we are now the Temple and God's Spirit dwells in us through Christ. A building of a third Temple would be a direct affront unto our God and all He did for us in Christ.

If a person fails to keep the Sabbath Rest of God they will die in their sins.

Saturday is no longer the Sabbath Rest of God.

You better find out why!!!

 

[HIM]

If a person fails to keep the Sabbath Rest of God they will die in their sins.

Saturday is no longer the Sabbath Rest of God.

You better find out why!!!

None of this answers the points laid out in the OP in respect to the context and grammar of Jesus' words.
Take care.