Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed

[FaithWillDo]

Dear friend, it is obvious to me that you have rejected everything God said in the verses you cited. You have added your private opinion to them and you consistently add or take away words to every verse. My Bible tells me that Gods casts those who do what your doing into the lake of fire to be tormented for all eternity.

I'm sure that your not adding these words of yours in (brackets) to Gods, by accident. You're deliberately doing in blatant disregard of Gods warning against doing such an evil thing. You obviously have no fear of the Lord, and no reverence towards His Word.

I personally never felt the need or desire to add or take away from anything God said, because I believe God is not so retarded or handicapped that He needs me to complete what He was trying to say. Likewise He doesn't need me to remove errors from what He said.

I can't understand why you feel the irresistible urge to go and butcher everything God said.

I notice you avoided the elephant in the room and ran straight passed it, to talk about an undisputed portion of scripture while ignoring the charges I bought against you. I pointed out that your opinion doesn't line up with what God's Word says. I showed you what 1 Tim 2:3-6 is saying in the context of what Paul was saying. But you ignored that and talked about a bunch of unrelated scriptures, in a vein attempt to muddy the water.

Nobody is arguing about the meaning of "will have" or "desire". The question was, who was Paul referring to when he said that. You claim he was referring to everyone who ever lived, but as you rightly pointed out Gods will is always fulfilled. So then according to you God is going to save everyone who ever lived. This ludicrous notion is not supported by ay scripture at all, it's just in your wild imagination.

You trash what Jesus said about judgement day, He said they are cast into the lake of fire where they will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. But you go and twist it to mean they just go for a holiday for a while like a kid going to the naughty corner for a while. That's utterly insulting and disrespectful to the Lord.

You say the reign of Christ will come to and end, but He said He will reign for ever and ever.
So you force me to take sides and expose one of you as a liar. Why o why do you do this to yourself, why heap up coals of fire on your head when it so unnecessary.

Rev 11:15
Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.”

Dear Christian Soldier,

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

All who have died in Adam is all mankind - surely you can understand and accept at least that much. And it is this same "all" who will be made alive in Christ - but for you, that "all" does not really mean "all" anymore. Amazing!

Also, you do not understand "conversion". The scriptures which teach about judgment show the death of the child of the devil (all mankind) but before the child of the devil dies, Christ will cause a new child of God to be born. This is the only way that Christ can save mankind and still uphold the Law that says the penalty of sin is death.

Also, Rev 11:15 is poorly translated. After Christ has saved all mankind, Christ's reign will come to an end because it is no longer necessary. The end of Christ's reign is taught in 1Cor 15:20-28 which I posted. Christ's reign only ends when Christ completes the mission that the Father sent Him to complete.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

You teach that Christ will fail and fail miserably in completing the mission His Father gave Him. You believe that mankind's "will" is just too powerful for Christ to overcome. This is nonsense. Here is what scripture says:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Also, like the Pharisees, you are omitting justice, mercy and faith when you try to understand Christ's judgment. Don't you know that Christ loves His enemies and will bless them?

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Your beliefs show that you believe Christ will pervert judgment - but He will do no such thing. Christ came to save all mankind and that is exactly what He will do. He will lose no one. You simply have no faith in Christ's abilities to accomplish His "will" or to believe the clear scriptures like the ones below:

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

This verse is paraphrased by Paul below:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

To accommodate your false beliefs, you can never believe that "all" actually means "all". Why is that?

The god you follow is an unmerciful and unloving god who is impotent to fulfill all that He says He will do.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began (like Isaiah 45:22).

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the ages of the ages (time of Christ's reign).

Joe

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

All who have died in Adam is all mankind - surely you can understand and accept at least that much. And it is this same "all" who will be made alive in Christ - but for you, that "all" does not really mean "all" anymore. Amazing!

Also, you do not understand "conversion". The scriptures which teach about judgment show the death of the child of the devil (all mankind) but before the child of the devil dies, Christ will cause a new child of God to be born. This is the only way that Christ can save mankind and still uphold the Law that says the penalty of sin is death.

Also, Rev 11:15 is poorly translated. After Christ has saved all mankind, Christ's reign will come to an end because it is no longer necessary. The end of Christ's reign is taught in 1Cor 15:20-28 which I posted. Christ's reign only ends when Christ completes the mission that the Father sent Him to complete.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

You teach that Christ will fail and fail miserably in completing the mission His Father gave Him. You believe that mankind's "will" is just too powerful for Christ to overcome. This is nonsense. Here is what scripture says:

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Also, like the Pharisees, you are omitting justice, mercy and faith when you try to understand Christ's judgment. Don't you know that Christ loves His enemies and will bless them?

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Your beliefs show that you believe Christ will pervert judgment - but He will do no such thing. Christ came to save all mankind and that is exactly what He will do. He will lose no one. You simply have no faith in Christ's abilities to accomplish His "will" or to believe the clear scriptures like the ones below:

Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. 23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

This verse is paraphrased by Paul below:

Phi 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee shall bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 and that every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

To accommodate your false beliefs, you can never believe that "all" actually means "all". Why is that?

The god you follow is an unmerciful and unloving god who is impotent to fulfill all that He says He will do.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Acts 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: 21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of RESTITUTION OF ALL THINGS, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began (like Isaiah 45:22).

Rev 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for the ages of the ages (time of Christ's reign).

Joe

I don't enjoy correcting you but I have no choice, so please don't take is as me Lording it over you.

1 Cor 5:20-28 doesn't say that Christ's reign comes to an end. What it is saying is that the battle between good and evil comes to an end, it's speaking about Christ's victory over all the enemies of God and the last enemy to be defeated is death.
All that means that time has come to an end and the enemies of God are all cast into the lake of fire to be tormented forever and there is no more battles to be fought because the enemies can never escape the lake of fire to do battle.

So since there is nobody left to fight, His reign as a Man of War is no longer required. Christ is coming back as a Man of War, He's going to kill billons of men women and children and also Devils.

Your right in saying all died in Adam, but your dead wrong to suggest that there are corrupt stinking corpses in the immaculate Body of Christ. Your comment is pure blasphemy, you're accusing God of harboring Harlots and Devils in His immaculate Boy, can y7ou see how evil your claim is.

The truth is, all those in Christ have been washed clean. So you're dead wrong to suggest that Christs body contains filthy stinking corpses.

I know that Christ hates His enemies so much that He tortures them with fire for all eternity, I don't know where you got this notion that Christ loves evil and wickedness. He only loves His elect and He proved it by dying for us while we were His enemies.

Why must you always add your word over Gods Word. God said "all", you trash that and add "all mankind" to His Word. Can you see how blasphemous that is????

I believe that mankind's will is to only serve sin and hate God. God does overcome the will of those He chose to save (elect) before time began. But He leaves the vast majority in their sin, so they remain condemned. If you have a problem with that, you need to take it up with God, He is the One who chose His elect before time began.

Your accusing Christ of corruption for perverting the course of justice, by winking at evil. The Christ of the Bible punishes evil doers in the lake of fire forever and ever. Now who's Christ is unjust.

Every knee will bow before the Lord, just before He casts them into the lake of fire to be tormented forever. They will bow begging for mercy but He will laugh at their calamity.

I trash everything you put in commas, because it's from the evil one. God said, "let your yes be yes and your no be no, everything apart from these is of the evil One". You just love adding to God's Word, don't you.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I don't enjoy correcting you but I have no choice, so please don't take is as me Lording it over you.

1 Cor 5:20-28 doesn't say that Christ's reign comes to an end. What it is saying is that the battle between good and evil comes to an end, it's speaking about Christ's victory over all the enemies of God and the last enemy to be defeated is death.
All that means that time has come to an end and the enemies of God are all cast into the lake of fire to be tormented forever and there is no more battles to be fought because the enemies can never escape the lake of fire to do battle.

So since there is nobody left to fight, His reign as a Man of War is no longer required. Christ is coming back as a Man of War, He's going to kill billons of men women and children and also Devils.

Your right in saying all died in Adam, but your dead wrong to suggest that there are corrupt stinking corpses in the immaculate Body of Christ. Your comment is pure blasphemy, you're accusing God of harboring Harlots and Devils in His immaculate Boy, can y7ou see how evil your claim is.

The truth is, all those in Christ have been washed clean. So you're dead wrong to suggest that Christs body contains filthy stinking corpses.

I know that Christ hates His enemies so much that He tortures them with fire for all eternity, I don't know where you got this notion that Christ loves evil and wickedness. He only loves His elect and He proved it by dying for us while we were His enemies.

Why must you always add your word over Gods Word. God said "all", you trash that and add "all mankind" to His Word. Can you see how blasphemous that is????

I believe that mankind's will is to only serve sin and hate God. God does overcome the will of those He chose to save (elect) before time began. But He leaves the vast majority in their sin, so they remain condemned. If you have a problem with that, you need to take it up with God, He is the One who chose His elect before time began.

Your accusing Christ of corruption for perverting the course of justice, by winking at evil. The Christ of the Bible punishes evil doers in the lake of fire forever and ever. Now who's Christ is unjust.

Every knee will bow before the Lord, just before He casts them into the lake of fire to be tormented forever. They will bow begging for mercy but He will laugh at their calamity.

I trash everything you put in commas, because it's from the evil one. God said, "let your yes be yes and your no be no, everything apart from these is of the evil One". You just love adding to God's Word, don't you.

Dear Christian Soldier,
I wish I could help you see but it is not within my power to do so. Only Christ heals a person's spiritual blindness and He does so only when He gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The god you are seeing and following is Satan who has transformed himself into an angel of light. His deceptions are too powerful for believers who have only been given the Early Rain of the Spirit and remain "babes" who can draw only milk.

This scripture applies to "babes":

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (the converted Elect). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

After Paul's death, the spirit of anti-Christ entered into the church and devoured the it. None of the unconverted believers (babes) were able to escape Satan's deceptions. Since that time, everyone who has been given the Early Rain of the Spirit and have become "babes" will likewise "fall backward, and be broken, and snared and taken". There is no avoiding it. This is how Satan built his apostate church in this world.

To restore the Elect believers who have been chosen for salvation in this age, Christ will return to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the Elect believer will be restored to Christ and their spiritual blindness will be healed. Immediately afterward, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) that previously occurred within themselves (God's temple). When they see this "sign of the times", Christ will spiritually appear and gather the new child of God to heaven (Mat 24:29-31). Judgment will then fall and remove & destroy the spirit of anti-Christ, along with the Great Harlot, from within the believer (Mat 24:40-41). After this judgment is complete, the believer will be converted. After they are converted, it will never again be possible for Satan to deceive them. Their salvation will be secure.

What I explained above is the pathway to salvation that all the Elect will travel before they die. For those who are called to be saints but are not chosen, Christ will not return to them and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. They will die in their sins and receive their portion with the unbelievers in the Lake of Fire. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and convert them just as He did earlier with the Elect. In the end, all mankind will be saved and will come unto the knowledge of the truth. Christ will then deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to the Father and His reign will come to an end. God will then be "all in all".

Since you are not able to receive the truth of the scriptures I have presented, there is no reason to continue our discussion. I hope you will remember what I presented above because it will be beneficial to you someday.

Joe

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
I wish I could help you see but it is not within my power to do so. Only Christ heals a person's spiritual blindness and He does so only when He gives them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. The god you are seeing and following is Satan who has transformed himself into an angel of light. His deceptions are too powerful for believers who have only been given the Early Rain of the Spirit and remain "babes" who can draw only milk.

This scripture applies to "babes":

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (the converted Elect). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they (babes) might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

After Paul's death, the spirit of anti-Christ entered into the church and devoured the it. None of the unconverted believers (babes) were able to escape Satan's deceptions. Since that time, everyone who has been given the Early Rain of the Spirit and have become "babes" will likewise "fall backward, and be broken, and snared and taken". There is no avoiding it. This is how Satan built his apostate church in this world.

To restore the Elect believers who have been chosen for salvation in this age, Christ will return to them and pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit. With the Latter Rain, the Elect believer will be restored to Christ and their spiritual blindness will be healed. Immediately afterward, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) that previously occurred within themselves (God's temple). When they see this "sign of the times", Christ will spiritually appear and gather the new child of God to heaven (Mat 24:29-31). Judgment will then fall and remove & destroy the spirit of anti-Christ, along with the Great Harlot, from within the believer (Mat 24:40-41). After this judgment is complete, the believer will be converted. After they are converted, it will never again be possible for Satan to deceive them. Their salvation will be secure.

What I explained above is the pathway to salvation that all the Elect will travel before they die. For those who are called to be saints but are not chosen, Christ will not return to them and give them the Latter Rain of the Spirit. They will die in their sins and receive their portion with the unbelievers in the Lake of Fire. But before they perish, Christ will have mercy upon them and convert them just as He did earlier with the Elect. In the end, all mankind will be saved and will come unto the knowledge of the truth. Christ will then deliver up the Kingdom of Heaven to the Father and His reign will come to an end. God will then be "all in all".

Since you are not able to receive the truth of the scriptures I have presented, there is no reason to continue our discussion. I hope you will remember what I presented above because it will be beneficial to you someday.

Joe

Thank you for taking the time to share your doctrine with me. I appreciate your sincerity and commitment to what you believe. But my Pastor told me that God has sent you strong delusion and turned you over to serve sin.

He reminded me that we are witnessing a falling away and men have turned to fables because they have itching ears. He said they have turned their back towards God and sought teachers to tell them what they want to hear. He said they reject Gods Word and embrace Demonic Doctrine.

Thanks for your concern, but I'm not open to consider any new revelation or any new doctrine or anything new t all. My Pastor won't allow me to even consider the possibility that any new revelation exists so our position is fixed and non negotiable. You're welcome to believe that the God we're following is Satan, just as everyone else is free to believe whatever they want.

We believe that you have been blinded by the Devil and He has your soul. We believe you are enslaved to sin and Satan and only God can save you if He wanted to. No man can help you at all, unless God quickens you to life first. There's no pint in trying to witness to a dead man, the dead know nothing.

 

[Brakelite]

OK, so now you admit that you don't know what John 3:16 is saying. You only quoted it because it sounds good to your itching ears and it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, don't about what the meaning of verses is. Do you just pluck the feel good verses out of Gods Word and ignore those which expose your false theology?

God does not love any individual man, God only loves Himself. So those of us who are in the Body of Christ are loved as a body and not as individuals. Apart from that, I don't see what there is to love about filthy stinking rags. Perhaps you can tell me, then we will both know.

Wow. I have seldom read such astonishing ignorance of God's character on a Christian forum. Do you not understand that love (God is love 1 John 4:8) and selfishness (God only loves Himself... Christian Soldier) cannot exist together as they are completely contradictory to one another?

As for the following...

So according to you God, first attempted to save the world and after He failed in His mission, He had to go and cast the vast majority of those He tried to save into the lake of fire to be tormented for all eternity. So not only is he a loser, but he is also an eil monster who takes pleasure in torturing those he failed to save.

OK, so now you admit that you don't know what John 3:16 is saying. You only quoted it because it sounds good to your itching ears and it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling, don't about what the meaning of verses is. Do you just pluck the feel good verses out of Gods Word and ignore those which expose your false theology?

I'm only trying to show why the gospel that teaches Universalism is unbiblical and false.

I'm not judging you as an individual at all

Yeah, right.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Wow. I have seldom read such astonishing ignorance of God's character on a Christian forum. Do you not understand that love (God is love 1 John 4:8) and selfishness (God only loves Himself... Christian Soldier) cannot exist together as they are completely contradictory to one another?

As for the following...








Yeah, right.

I reject that evil god of love, who loves evil because he is evil. The God who revealed Himself in the Bible is a God of Hate.

God hates some before they are even born, such as Esau. But you believe in this fake non existent god who loves everyone unconditionally. If you believe that, then I have a harbor bridge to sell you for $200 dollars. It's a real bargain but you must act fast and transfer the money before I change my mind.

Now please explain why this god of love killed billions of men, women, babies and unborn babies with a flodd. And why does he cast around 150,000 people in hell every single day. Are you suggesting that your god is bi polar, with a multiple personality disorder. Well you can have the pathetic god all to yourself.

My God only loves Himself through His Son and those in Christ are partakers of the Love God has for Himself. I wouldn't believe in a god who has no standards or morals or any sense of justice. That's a pathetic god in my view.

 

[Brakelite]

I reject that evil god of love, who loves evil because he is evil. The God who revealed Himself in the Bible is a God of Hate.

God hates some before they are even born, such as Esau. But you believe in this fake non existent god who loves everyone unconditionally. If you believe that, then I have a harbor bridge to sell you for $200 dollars. It's a real bargain but you must act fast and transfer the money before I change my mind.

Now please explain why this god of love killed billions of men, women, babies and unborn babies with a flodd. And why does he cast around 150,000 people in hell every single day. Are you suggesting that your god is bi polar, with a multiple personality disorder. Well you can have the pathetic god all to yourself.

My God only loves Himself through His Son and those in Christ are partakers of the Love God has for Himself. I wouldn't believe in a god who has no standards or morals or any sense of justice. That's a pathetic god in my view.

If you think that God doesn't love you, individually, personally, despite your sin and past, then you haven't met Him.
“Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me".
Revelation 3:20
“1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. ”.
Romans 5:1-8

Let God introduce Himself to you. Not the make believe God you don't believe in. Not the God you made up through misunderstanding His motives and character. That God you describe? Idon't believe in Him either.
The God Who revealed Himself through His Son. The God of whom Jesus is the express image. Believe in that God.

“That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ. ”
1 John 1:3

 

[FaithWillDo]

Thank you for taking the time to share your doctrine with me. I appreciate your sincerity and commitment to what you believe. But my Pastor told me that God has sent you strong delusion and turned you over to serve sin.

He reminded me that we are witnessing a falling away and men have turned to fables because they have itching ears. He said they have turned their back towards God and sought teachers to tell them what they want to hear. He said they reject Gods Word and embrace Demonic Doctrine.

Thanks for your concern, but I'm not open to consider any new revelation or any new doctrine or anything new t all. My Pastor won't allow me to even consider the possibility that any new revelation exists so our position is fixed and non negotiable. You're welcome to believe that the God we're following is Satan, just as everyone else is free to believe whatever they want.

We believe that you have been blinded by the Devil and He has your soul. We believe you are enslaved to sin and Satan and only God can save you if He wanted to. No man can help you at all, unless God quickens you to life first. There's no pint in trying to witness to a dead man, the dead know nothing.

Dear Christian Soldier,
You need to ask your pastor about these two scriptures:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The spirit of anti-Christ that John says was already in the world during his time is what caused the entire flock to be devoured. The apostasy of the church began shortly after Paul's death. This knowledge greatly distressed Paul (with tears) because he loved the churches very much. By the end of the 1st century the churches were devoured and were all apostate.

Ask your pastor when the apostasy ended and why.

I can tell you that it never ended but only waxed worse and worse. All the approx. 2,000 different denominations of Christianity in the world are all apostate and have no unity of truth. They have become places where the blind lead the blind.

The apostate church is also the fulfillment of the Tower of Babel story which resulted in the confusion of languages.

The apostate church also mixes works with faith with their Doctrine of Free Will. This doctrine causes the sin that leads to death.

The Doctrine of Hell that they teach is void of love and is so ghastly & evil that it makes Christ out to be worse than the worse of mankind. At least with the evil that mankind does, it ends with death.

Those two doctrines alone which I mentioned above have turned the Gospel of Christ into a nightmare for this world.

You should be praying to Christ for Him to open your eyes to the truth rather than listening to your pastor (a blind leader of the blind).

Joe

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
You need to ask your pastor about these two scriptures:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

1John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The spirit of anti-Christ that John says was already in the world during his time is what caused the entire flock to be devoured. The apostasy of the church began shortly after Paul's death. This knowledge greatly distressed Paul (with tears) because he loved the churches very much. By the end of the 1st century the churches were devoured and were all apostate.

Ask your pastor when the apostasy ended and why.

I can tell you that it never ended but only waxed worse and worse. All the approx. 2,000 different denominations of Christianity in the world are all apostate and have no unity of truth. They have become places where the blind lead the blind.

The apostate church is also the fulfillment of the Tower of Babel story which resulted in the confusion of languages.

The apostate church also mixes works with faith with their Doctrine of Free Will. This doctrine causes the sin that leads to death.

The Doctrine of Hell that they teach is void of love and is so ghastly & evil that it makes Christ out to be worse than the worse of mankind. At least with the evil that mankind does, it ends with death.

Those two doctrines alone which I mentioned above have turned the Gospel of Christ into a nightmare for this world.

You should be praying to Christ for Him to open your eyes to the truth rather than listening to your pastor (a blind leader of the blind).

Joe

I have no idea how you arrived at this conclusion that the Church was devoured. It's simply not true, the truth is the Church has been flourishing ever since Christ overpowered Satan and liberated His people from bondage to Satan.

So you are holding to the opposite of the truth and that equates to holding on to error because someone has deceived you by their craftiness. You say the Church apostatized, but the facts show that Christ has been building His Church for the past 2000 years with absolutely no opposition from the Devil. because He has been bound up for the past 2000 years.

All the statistics show that the Church is growing faster than ever before in it's history. So the opposite to what you claim is true. The Church will continue to grow and will will take this world by force and kill everyone who sands in our way, we will win the battle because Christ will return as the Man of war, with His Legion of Angels. Then we will slaughter all the unbelievers and we shall reign forevermore.

Those verses you cited are not a threat to the Church, they merely inform us to expect some false converts and some Judas type characters will rise up in the Church. But the beauty is, they can never deceive us true believers. God said it is not possible to deceive His elect so they are powerless against us. God sends the wolves to punish false converts in the Church. but His elect cannot be deceived.

The Apostate Church is not a part of the Body of Christ, it's Antichrist. In other words it's a fake copy of the real Church, just as the Antichrist is a fake copy of Christ. Gods elect are His Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. We already have the victory guaranteed.

 

[FaithWillDo]

I have no idea how you arrived at this conclusion that the Church was devoured. It's simply not true, the truth is the Church has been flourishing ever since Christ overpowered Satan and liberated His people from bondage to Satan.

So you are holding to the opposite of the truth and that equates to holding on to error because someone has deceived you by their craftiness. You say the Church apostatized, but the facts show that Christ has been building His Church for the past 2000 years with absolutely no opposition from the Devil. because He has been bound up for the past 2000 years.

All the statistics show that the Church is growing faster than ever before in it's history. So the opposite to what you claim is true. The Church will continue to grow and will will take this world by force and kill everyone who sands in our way, we will win the battle because Christ will return as the Man of war, with His Legion of Angels. Then we will slaughter all the unbelievers and we shall reign forevermore.

Those verses you cited are not a threat to the Church, they merely inform us to expect some false converts and some Judas type characters will rise up in the Church. But the beauty is, they can never deceive us true believers. God said it is not possible to deceive His elect so they are powerless against us. God sends the wolves to punish false converts in the Church. but His elect cannot be deceived.

The Apostate Church is not a part of the Body of Christ, it's Antichrist. In other words it's a fake copy of the real Church, just as the Antichrist is a fake copy of Christ. Gods elect are His Church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. We already have the victory guaranteed.

Dear Christian Soldier,
Your understanding of the apostate church is not supported by scripture.

Here is how the true church has continued to grow:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat (the Elect) harvest to day? (Day of conversion/salvation) I will call unto the LORD (a call for understanding), and he shall send thunder (voice of Christ) and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (have become a man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Just before an Elect believer is converted, their "wickedness is great". This is true because the spirit of anti-Christ is indwelling them and causing them to follow Satan and not Christ. Only after receiving the Latter Rain will the believer's spiritual blindness be healed (Mark 8:15-25) so that they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves (Mat 24:15).

The verse below is the second witness to this truth:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

Here is a third witness:

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary (in a fallen away state).

The Parable of the Ten Virgins, the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares, the Parable of the Prodigal Son, the Parable of the Leavened Bread and others all teach that the pathway to salvation includes a time in the apostate church. It cannot be avoided.

Christ explained below why a new believer will always fall away from the truth and become apostate. Don't think that it doesn't apply to you. It applies all believer (babes) just after Christ has given the person the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

There is no reason to continue our discussion since it is clear that you are not able to receive the truth that is taught by the scriptures I've presented. We are now just going in circles.

Your only hope is to do as 1Sam 12:17 says and call on the Lord for understanding.

Joe

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
Your understanding of the apostate church is not supported by scripture.

Here is how the true church has continued to grow:

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat (the Elect) harvest to day? (Day of conversion/salvation) I will call unto the LORD (a call for understanding), and he shall send thunder (voice of Christ) and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (have become a man of sin), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Just before an Elect believer is converted, their "wickedness is great". This is true because the spirit of anti-Christ is indwelling them and causing them to follow Satan and not Christ. Only after receiving the Latter Rain will the believer's spiritual blindness be healed (Mark 8:15-25) so that they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves (Mat 24:15).

The verse below is the second witness to this truth:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

Here is a third witness:

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary (in a fallen away state).

The Parable of the Ten Virgins, the Parable of the Wheat and the Tares, the Parable of the Prodigal Son, the Parable of the Leavened Bread and others all teach that the pathway to salvation includes a time in the apostate church. It cannot be avoided.

Christ explained below why a new believer will always fall away from the truth and become apostate. Don't think that it doesn't apply to you. It applies all believer (babes) just after Christ has given the person the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

There is no reason to continue our discussion since it is clear that you are not able to receive the truth that is taught by the scriptures I've presented. We are now just going in circles.

Your only hope is to do as 1Sam 12:17 says and call on the Lord for understanding.

Joe

Why do you take everything the Bible says about the Devils Children, and apply it to Gods Children. You make no distinction between the two types of people.

You claim that a believer can be indwelt by the spirit of Antichrist and the Holy Spirit of Christ at the same time. Gods Word exposes your lies in every point you made. God said it's not possible for a person to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the Antichrist spirit at the same time but you reject what God says and you impose your opposing view over God's Word.

You also falsely claim that a believer can be deceived by false doctrine, but God is against you there as well because He said it is impossible to deceive a believer. So God Himself exposes you as a liar.

God said, "they no not the truth because there is no truth in them". As you can see, the truth is a person, His name is the Lord Jesus Christ, and if His Spirit is in you than the truth is in you because Jesus said "I am the truth".
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that the truth is in you, because everything you say contradicts what God said so it leaves me to conclude that the truth is not in you.

 

[Brakelite]

Then we will slaughter all the unbelievers and we shall reign forevermore.

Mmm. The exact same mindset that resulted in the genocidal murder of millions throughout the temporal reign of the papacy during the dark ages.
As I stood previously. You do not know Jesus, and you have a serious misapprehension regarding His character.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Why do you take everything the Bible says about the Devils Children, and apply it to Gods Children. You make no distinction between the two types of people.

You claim that a believer can be indwelt by the spirit of Antichrist and the Holy Spirit of Christ at the same time. Gods Word exposes your lies in every point you made. God said it's not possible for a person to be indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the Antichrist spirit at the same time but you reject what God says and you impose your opposing view over God's Word.

You also falsely claim that a believer can be deceived by false doctrine, but God is against you there as well because He said it is impossible to deceive a believer. So God Himself exposes you as a liar.

God said, "they no not the truth because there is no truth in them". As you can see, the truth is a person, His name is the Lord Jesus Christ, and if His Spirit is in you than the truth is in you because Jesus said "I am the truth".
I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that the truth is in you, because everything you say contradicts what God said so it leaves me to conclude that the truth is not in you.

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
You claim that a believer can be indwelt by the spirit of Antichrist and the Holy Spirit of Christ at the same time.

Scripture says that after Christ plants His seed of the Early Rain of the Spirit (produces the child of God), Satan come at "night" (time of spiritual blindness) and plant his seed within them, too. Satan's seed is the spirit of anti-Christ which produces the tares (child of the devil). This is taught in the parable of the Wheat and the Tares.

Mat 12:43-45 teaches that the Holy Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ indwell a person at the same time. I have presented that teachings to you in a previous post.

This verse below also teaches it:

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Paul's comment above is addressed to believers who have the Early Rain of the Spirit. After Paul's death, the churches were devoured by the spirit of anti-Christ. That is when they received "another spirit" and began following another Jesus because the spirit of anti-Christ deceived them.

After Christ pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit on an Elect believer, their spiritual blindness will be healed and they will then be able to "see" the Abomination of Desolation" (Mat 24:15). The A of D occurred when the spirit of anti-Christ indwelt them.

Also, consider Judas. He received the Early Rain of the Spirit along with the other Apostles. That is how they knew that Jesus was the Christ and why they accepted Him as Lord. Here's what happened to Judas who is a "type" for apostate believers:

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Christ enters a person by the Holy Spirit and they become a believer. Satan will enter that same believer by the spirit of anti-Christ and they will become an apostate believer.

You said:
You also falsely claim that a believer can be deceived by false doctrine, but God is against you there as well because He said it is impossible to deceive a believer.

Not true.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

The "birds" are a symbol for unclean spirits which bring Satan's lies.

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Leaven is another symbol for Satan's lies. The leaven is placed the 3 measures of meal which produces "bread" that a new believer consumes thinking it is the truth of God. Since the leaven is hidden in the bread, the new believer does not realize that they have been deceived and are eating leavened bread.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The people who have the mark of the beast are apostate believers who have the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ (the second beast of Rev 13/also called the false prophet). It is the false prophet (a symbol for the spirit of anti-Christ) who deceived the apostate believers.

After an apostate Elect believer is given the Latter Rain, judgment will then follow and remove the spirit of anti-Christ which is cast into the Lake of Fire.

These verses teach the same thing:

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (spirit of anti-Christ/false prophet), and the other left (Holy Spirit/child of God).

The one that is "taken" is cast into the Lake of Fire as Rev 19:20 shows.

Joe

 

[Christian Soldier]

Mmm. The exact same mindset that resulted in the genocidal murder of millions throughout the temporal reign of the papacy during the dark ages.
As I stood previously. You do not know Jesus, and you have a serious misapprehension regarding His character.

I know the character of Jesus well enough to know that He is coming back with a blood vengeance. As the man of War, He will slaughter billions of people, their blood will run down the road at a depth of 5 feet. So were talkin g about the greatest massacre in human history, He will slaughter more people than He did in Noah's flood.

Why are you surprised by this fact, it's all written in the book of revelation. It sounds like you have fallen for the Satanic lie that God is a God of love. But the truth is He is the God of hate and the God of love at the same time. How many billions does He need to slaughter and throw into hell before people wake up to the fact.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
You claim that a believer can be indwelt by the spirit of Antichrist and the Holy Spirit of Christ at the same time.

Scripture says that after Christ plants His seed of the Early Rain of the Spirit (produces the child of God), Satan come at "night" (time of spiritual blindness) and plant his seed within them, too. Satan's seed is the spirit of anti-Christ which produces the tares (child of the devil). This is taught in the parable of the Wheat and the Tares.

Mat 12:43-45 teaches that the Holy Spirit and the spirit of anti-Christ indwell a person at the same time. I have presented that teachings to you in a previous post.

This verse below also teaches it:

2Cor 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Paul's comment above is addressed to believers who have the Early Rain of the Spirit. After Paul's death, the churches were devoured by the spirit of anti-Christ. That is when they received "another spirit" and began following another Jesus because the spirit of anti-Christ deceived them.

After Christ pours out the Latter Rain of the Spirit on an Elect believer, their spiritual blindness will be healed and they will then be able to "see" the Abomination of Desolation" (Mat 24:15). The A of D occurred when the spirit of anti-Christ indwelt them.

Also, consider Judas. He received the Early Rain of the Spirit along with the other Apostles. That is how they knew that Jesus was the Christ and why they accepted Him as Lord. Here's what happened to Judas who is a "type" for apostate believers:

Luke 22:3 Then entered Satan into Judas surnamed Iscariot, being of the number of the twelve.

Christ enters a person by the Holy Spirit and they become a believer. Satan will enter that same believer by the spirit of anti-Christ and they will become an apostate believer.

You said:
You also falsely claim that a believer can be deceived by false doctrine, but God is against you there as well because He said it is impossible to deceive a believer.

No true.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

The "birds" are a symbol for unclean spirits which bring Satan's lies.

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Leaven is another symbol for Satan's lies. The leaven is placed the 3 measures of meal which produces "bread" that a new believer consumes thinking it is the truth of God. Since the leaven is hidden in the bread, the new believer does not realize that they have been deceived and are eating leavened bread.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

The people who have the mark of the beast are apostate believers who have the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ (the second beast of Rev 13/also called the false prophet). It is the false prophet (a symbol for the spirit of anti-Christ) who deceived the apostate believers.

After an apostate Elect believer is given the Latter Rain, judgment will then follow and remove the spirit of anti-Christ which is cast into the Lake of Fire.

These verses teach the same thing:

Mat 24:38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken (spirit of anti-Christ/false prophet), and the other left (Holy Spirit/child of God).

The one that is "taken" is cast into the Lake of Fire as Rev 19:20 shows.

Joe

I just can't see what you see in Matt 12 to me, the wheat and tares don't represent the Holy Spirit and the Spirit of Antichrist dwelling in the same person.

The tares are false converts in the Church, God allows them to remain until harvest time (day of judgement), then you know the rest of the parable.

I've never heard any preacher who holds to orthodox bible doctrine, mention this mysterious "early rain and latter rain". Your the first and only person who ever shared this mysterious doctrine with me, if I was to go along with your doctrine, I would need to deny everything me Shepherd has taught me and reject it.

The numbers are stacked against your doctrine, you're on your own. I'm going to stick with what the Church fathers taught. If I leave the safety of my flock, the enemy will devour me for sure. But thanks for sharing anyway.

2 Cor 11:4 was not a command. "if ye receive another spirit" doesn't mean "I command you not to receive another spirit", you just made that us to fit your unbiblical doctrine.

You forgot to consider a small but important detail about Judas Iscariot. Judas was a Devil, so He was never indwelt by the Holy Spirit. He was faking it the whole time, he fooled everyone except for he One who created him for that purpose. Jesus created Judas Iscariot for the express purpose of being betrayed by him.

So Jesus planned His betrayal and every other human affair before He created the world. So everything must play out exactly as Jesus preordained it.


I can't comment on your eschatology, as it is completely different to anything I'd ever heard before

 

[FaithWillDo]

I know the character of Jesus well enough to know that He is coming back with a blood vengeance. As the man of War, He will slaughter billions of people, their blood will run down the road at a depth of 5 feet. So were talkin g about the greatest massacre in human history, He will slaughter more people than He did in Noah's flood.

Why are you surprised by this fact, it's all written in the book of revelation. It sounds like you have fallen for the Satanic lie that God is a God of love. But the truth is He is the God of hate and the God of love at the same time. How many billions does He need to slaughter and throw into hell before people wake up to the fact.

Dear Christian Soldier,
Satan has shown you a Christ that does not exist. The one you are seeing is a monster.

Here is the true Christ:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Psa 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Joe

 

[FaithWillDo]

I've never heard any preacher who holds to orthodox bible doctrine, mention this mysterious "early rain and latter rain". Your the first and only person who ever shared this mysterious doctrine with me, if I was to go along with your doctrine, I would need to deny everything me Shepherd has taught me and reject it.

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
I've never heard any preacher who holds to orthodox bible doctrine, mention this mysterious "early rain and latter rain".

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the Latter and Early RAIN unto the earth.

The apostate church does not understand the concept taught by the Early and Latter Rain. They believe that when a person comes to Christ, they do so by their own free will ability. But that is not what scripture teaches. When Christ first draws a person to Him, He does so by giving them the Early Rain of the Spirit.

The Early Rain of the Spirit is what gives an unbeliever a "measure of faith". Then, when the Gospel is presented to them, they will respond and make a confession of faith.

Under the Marriage analogy, the Early Rain of the Spirit is what makes the unbeliever a "chaste virgin" and is when they become engaged to Christ. This is the point that the chaste virgin begins a period of waiting for the Bridegroom to return for the marriage (conversion) to take place. But while the virgin waits, they will fall away under the deceptions of Satan. So just before the Bridegroom appears, Christ will give the un-chaste virgin the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This will restore her and make her ready for the Bridegroom's return.

In the Parable of the Ten Virgins, the extra flask of oil which the Wise Virgins possess represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit. They use the extra oil to make Christ's pathway straight so that He will "appear" to them so that the marriage can take place.

Consider 1Cor 12:3 again. Since a person must have the Spirit BEFORE they can call Jesus "Lord", how is it that the Apostles recognized Jesus as the Christ and were able to call Jesus "Lord" prior to their conversion on the Day of Pentecost (when they received the Latter Rain)?

This is how:

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

The Father revealed this truth to the Apostles by giving them the Early Rain of the Spirit. That is the ONLY WAY that they could "see" Christ for who He is and subsequently, accept Him as "Lord".

Look at Paul's conversion experience when He received the Early Rain of the Spirit:

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly, there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

These events which happened to Paul "type" (symbolize) the spiritual process that all the Elect go through to be called out from the world so as to enter the church.

When an individual is called out from the world to follow Christ, Christ will come to them suddenly and without invitation (Mal 3:1). Under the New Covenant, mankind is God's Temple (1Cor 6:19).

Since a new believer is left carnally minded upon receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will remain spiritually blind. They will not have the ability to understand who the voice is that is speaking to them. Christ will remain hidden from their understanding. Because they do not have "ears that can hear", the person must rely on being told who the voice is, just as Paul had to do.

After the voice told Paul that it was Jesus who was speaking to him, Paul answers back to Jesus and calls Him Lord. Since scripture says that no one can call Jesus Lord but by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we know that this event happening to Paul is the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Paul calls Jesus “Lord” but still lacks the ability to know Jesus for himself. Christ remains hidden (veiled) from Paul’s understanding, just as He remains hidden from the understanding of all who experience the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Paul then asks Christ “what wilt thou have me to do”?

The Lord answers Paul by saying to arise and go into the city. The city represents the Great City which is Mystery Babylon the Great, Sodom, Egypt and earthly Jerusalem. These spiritual terms all represent mankind’s spiritually worsened carnal nature. It is mankind's carnal nature that causes mankind to approach Christ by "works" (religion) rather than by faith alone.

Christ then tells Paul that once he is in the city, someone there will tell him what he must do. That someone is a minister of Satan who is just as spiritually blind as Paul is.

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

After Paul stands up and opens his eyes, he “saw no man”. Paul’s blindness represented his spiritual blindness and was the reason why Paul had to ask who was speaking to him. Paul had no ability to see Christ for himself. Scripture goes on to say that Paul had to be led by the hand. This is symbolic of the blind leading the blind.

After Paul arrives in Damascus, verse 9 says that Paul remained blind and did not eat or drink for three days. Paul’s lack of being able to eat and drink represents Paul’s spiritual blindness when he was not able to consume Christ’s bread of truth or drink the wine of Christ’s blood which He shed for the New Covenant of Grace through Faith. The number 3 is also a spiritual symbol and it represents a spiritual process. The “three days” does not represent a literal length of time as “taught by man’s wisdom” (1Cor 2:13). It represents the spiritual process which will eventually cause Paul to "fall away" and lose his salvation. The end product of the spiritual process results in Paul becoming "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45); a "man of sin".

Then after Paul's time of waiting was complete, Christ returned and gave Paul the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Only then could Paul eat "meat".

Acts 9:17 And Ananias (type for Christ) went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Here are a few more verses on the Early and Latter Rain of the Spirit:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (the Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary.

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

Joe

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
Satan has shown you a Christ that does not exist. The one you are seeing is a monster.

Here is the true Christ:

Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

Psa 145:9 The LORD is good to all: and his tender mercies are over all his works.

Joe

Yes God does send rain on the tares as well as the wheat but lets not forget that He's going to torment the tares in the lake of fire for all eternity. God said love the tares, (meaning water them) or give your hungry enemy food and pray for them. None of that means that you love them in a way that you can have fellowship with them.

God ordered His people to slaughter entire ethnic groups and their animals. That means men, women and children and unborn babies. He is still the same God, that's why he gave us the right to kill our enemies in war.

Why does God say in;

Joel 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords And your pruning hooks into spears; Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’ ”

There will be no peace in the world until all the enemies are slaughtered. I don't find this long haired mild mannered hippy Jesus, who loves everyone in the bible. I read that Jesus is coming back as a Man of War, to slaughter all of His enemies and all the unbelievers.

 

[Christian Soldier]

Dear Christian Soldier,
You said:
I've never heard any preacher who holds to orthodox bible doctrine, mention this mysterious "early rain and latter rain".

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the Latter and Early RAIN unto the earth.

The apostate church does not understand the concept taught by the Early and Latter Rain. They believe that when a person comes to Christ, they do so by their own free will ability. But that is not what scripture teaches. When Christ first draws a person to Him, He does so by giving them the Early Rain of the Spirit.

The Early Rain of the Spirit is what gives an unbeliever a "measure of faith". Then, when the Gospel is presented to them, they will respond and make a confession of faith.

Under the Marriage analogy, the Early Rain of the Spirit is what makes the unbeliever a "chaste virgin" and is when they become engaged to Christ. This is the point that the chaste virgin begins a period of waiting for the Bridegroom to return for the marriage (conversion) to take place. But while the virgin waits, they will fall away under the deceptions of Satan. So just before the Bridegroom appears, Christ will give the un-chaste virgin the Latter Rain of the Spirit. This will restore her and make her ready for the Bridegroom's return.

In the Parable of the Ten Virgins, the extra flask of oil which the Wise Virgins possess represents the Latter Rain of the Spirit. They use the extra oil to make Christ's pathway straight so that He will "appear" to them so that the marriage can take place.

Consider 1Cor 12:3 again. Since a person must have the Spirit BEFORE they can call Jesus "Lord", how is it that the Apostles recognized Jesus as the Christ and were able to call Jesus "Lord" prior to their conversion on the Day of Pentecost (when they received the Latter Rain)?

This is how:

Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

The Father revealed this truth to the Apostles by giving them the Early Rain of the Spirit. That is the ONLY WAY that they could "see" Christ for who He is and subsequently, accept Him as "Lord".

Look at Paul's conversion experience when He received the Early Rain of the Spirit:

Acts 9:3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly, there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

These events which happened to Paul "type" (symbolize) the spiritual process that all the Elect go through to be called out from the world so as to enter the church.

When an individual is called out from the world to follow Christ, Christ will come to them suddenly and without invitation (Mal 3:1). Under the New Covenant, mankind is God's Temple (1Cor 6:19).

Since a new believer is left carnally minded upon receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they will remain spiritually blind. They will not have the ability to understand who the voice is that is speaking to them. Christ will remain hidden from their understanding. Because they do not have "ears that can hear", the person must rely on being told who the voice is, just as Paul had to do.

After the voice told Paul that it was Jesus who was speaking to him, Paul answers back to Jesus and calls Him Lord. Since scripture says that no one can call Jesus Lord but by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, we know that this event happening to Paul is the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Paul calls Jesus “Lord” but still lacks the ability to know Jesus for himself. Christ remains hidden (veiled) from Paul’s understanding, just as He remains hidden from the understanding of all who experience the Early Rain of the Spirit.

Paul then asks Christ “what wilt thou have me to do”?

The Lord answers Paul by saying to arise and go into the city. The city represents the Great City which is Mystery Babylon the Great, Sodom, Egypt and earthly Jerusalem. These spiritual terms all represent mankind’s spiritually worsened carnal nature. It is mankind's carnal nature that causes mankind to approach Christ by "works" (religion) rather than by faith alone.

Christ then tells Paul that once he is in the city, someone there will tell him what he must do. That someone is a minister of Satan who is just as spiritually blind as Paul is.

2Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 15 Therefore, it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Then after Paul's time of waiting was complete, Christ returned and gave Paul the Latter Rain of the Spirit. Only then could Paul eat "meat".

Acts 9:17 And Ananias (type for Christ) went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened.

Here are a few more verses on the Early and Latter Rain of the Spirit:

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (the Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary.

Job 37:6 For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain (Early Rain), and to the great rain (Latter Rain) of his strength.

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

Deu 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain (Early Rain) upon the tender herb, and as the showers (Latter Rain) upon the grass:

Joe

My Shepherd told me that what your trying to do here is, understand the mystery of how Gods saves His people. He said, the truth is nobody will ever understand the mystery of why God chose to save those He chose. And nobody will ever understand the mystery of how He saves His people.
God has hidden these things from us, so it's a futile exercise to try and solve the mystery.

I see you have used a lot of sticky tape to put a bunch of obscure verses together, in an attempt to try and create a doctrine to explain this great mystery.

The problem with doing that is two fold, 1. The mystery of salvation is not important at all, it has no baring on our walk with the Lord. It's His business alone and trying to look into His mystery is foolish. There is no benefit in trying to find out anything about the mystery for us. It results in deep confusion, so we should leave it well alone.

We are told to trust and obey, the last thing we should do is meddle in Gods business. None of your doctrine regarding salvation lines up with 2000 years of orthodox bible doctrine, which the Church Father taught. You always add your unbiblical words to the text and that's a major red flag.

 

[FaithWillDo]

Yes God does send rain on the tares as well as the wheat but lets not forget that He's going to torment the tares in the lake of fire for all eternity. God said love the tares, (meaning water them) or give your hungry enemy food and pray for them. None of that means that you love them in a way that you can have fellowship with them.

God ordered His people to slaughter entire ethnic groups and their animals. That means men, women and children and unborn babies. He is still the same God, that's why he gave us the right to kill our enemies in war.

Why does God say in;

Joel 3:10 Beat your plowshares into swords And your pruning hooks into spears; Let the weak say, ‘I am strong.’ ”

There will be no peace in the world until all the enemies are slaughtered. I don't find this long haired mild mannered hippy Jesus, who loves everyone in the bible. I read that Jesus is coming back as a Man of War, to slaughter all of His enemies and all the unbelievers.

Dear Christian Soldier,
You are not understanding how Christ saves mankind. All mankind is "condemned already" (John 3:18) but before anyone perishes, Christ will have mercy upon them and give them faith (Mat 23:23). You are omitting mercy, faith and justice just as the Pharisees did.

Also, Christ's second coming is when He comes to give each of His Elect the Latter Rain. It is a reoccurring event and does not happen at the literal end of this age. After Christ give His Elect the Latter Rain, their spiritual blindness will be healed so that Christ can "appear" to them. After Christ appears, He will commence judgment (Day of the Lord). He will then remove all the things within the Elect believer that makes them carnal and sinful. Those are the things that are destroyed in the Lake of Fire. The new child of God is not judged but is gathered to heaven.

Christ will convert all mankind in this manner before they perish in the Lake of Fire. That is how He loves His enemies and blesses them. He blesses them with salvation and with a new spiritual nature governed by the Holy Spirit.

Joe