Elect or Not Elect: Why ALL Should Be Alarmed
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Behold
Well-Known Member
There is a condition.
Its this.
You must "BELIEVE".
As that is FAITH, and our "Faith is counted by God, as (Christ's) Righteousness".
Also, to produce that faith in Christ, means you have REPENTED of your UNBELIEF.... and that is also a part of "BELIEVING", in Christ".
God has established all to have free will and a measure of Faith.
God wants us to take our faith, and BELIEVE In Jesus....
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
If they had eternal life. they still have it.. Eternal means forever.
Now if they are not abiding in Christ. they will not produce fruit. will lose reward (which will be burned in the flame as wood hay and stubble) will not be able to be used by Christ, but they are still saved.
Jesus said we will NEVER perish, and we HAVE eternal life
again, Trust in Jesus, or trust in your flesh to abide.. Count me out of trusting my flesh, that is what Got the human race in trouble to begin with
Absolutely, but in this life, a person can be spiritually dead while physically alive.
No mere man is was ever or ever will be in this life divinely inspired in the sense of being divine in any way. Jesus, of course, was both fully God and fully man, and this is what qualifies Him as Mediator between God and and man, but that's a different subject... The men who wrote various parts of the Bible were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but this means that God's Word, was "breathed into" them, so much so that God relayed His Word to us through them. As Hebrews 1:1-2 says, "Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world." And Paul, an apostle, who because of the sin in his body called himself a "wretched man" (Romans 7) and "the foremost/chief of sinners" (1 Timothy 1) says in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, "All Scripture is breathed out by God (inspired by God) and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work."
Not so; he says they proclaim Christ and Him crucified ~ and hopefully we do as well ~ by the power of God in us, which is the Holy Spirit, who imparts to us His wisdom. And this is just as Jesus said, the Holy Spirit "dwells with (us) and (is) in (us)" (John 14:17), is "at work in us so that we will and work for God's good pleasure" (Philippians 2:13), and "teach(es) (us) all things and bring to (our) remembrance all that (Jesus has) said to (us)" (John 14:26).
Well, yes I am; the "old man" is still with/in us, and this is why Paul exhorts us in Ephesians 4:22-24 to "put off (our) old self, which belongs to (our) former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and ...be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and ...put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness." And the writer of Hebrews says it this way: "Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith..." (Hebrews 12:1-2). As for me, though, the Spirit has made me spiritually alive through rebirth in this way, which is exactly what Paul says of us Christians in Ephesians 2:1-11...
"And you who were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience ~ among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ ~ by grace you have been saved ~ and raised us up with Him and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages He might show the immeasurable riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them."
This is the good work God began in me some time ago and will ~ will ~ bring to completion at the day of Christ (Philippians 1:6). I assume the same is true of you. No need to apologize, as if you are somehow "better" in some way than anyone, even other Christians; none of us ~ even Paul, who said as much of himself several times over.
This I agree with. By the power of the Spirit, so he's giving all credit and glory to God. But again, even since Paul's day... and Pentecost in particular, which was the promised coming of the Holy Spirit, we are all able to preach, and teach ~ and impart to others all these gifs of the Holy Spirit for the common good (1 Corinthians 12). Paul, even as an apostle, is not elevating himself above any man, past, present, or future.
And I agree with this, but with all due respect it seems you ~ perhaps inadvertently, or not meaning to ~ are the one doing this.
Grace and peace to you.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Those who have been Born Again by the Spirit Of God....will always produce the fruit of Jesus, they are being made into his image by the power within their spirit, that power is Gods seed, who birthed their spirit into his.Gods Living Witness His Living Holy Spirit...
Those who don’t bare fruit are counterfeits...grafted themselves into the true vine...you will know who are Jesuses by their fruit.
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
We remain in Christ because we are Born Of The Spirit.....therefore one in spirit....this can only be known by divine revelation...not by reading scripture, anyone can do that....what the Holy Spirit witnesses with our spirit must be checked out with his penned word.....the natural man wouldn’t understand a word I have just spoken .....
Those who don’t bare fruit are counterfeits...grafted themselves into the true vine...you will know who are Jesuses by their fruit.
Matthew 7:16-20
King James Version
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
We remain in Christ because we are Born Of The Spirit.....therefore one in spirit....this can only be known by divine revelation...not by reading scripture, anyone can do that....what the Holy Spirit witnesses with our spirit must be checked out with his penned word.....the natural man wouldn’t understand a word I have just spoken .....
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I encourage you to use a concordance and do a word search on 'appoint' or 'appointed' ~ both Old Testament and New ~ and... see what you find. In a certain sense, I agree with you, but this appointing is a work of God, not in and of ourselves. I would hope that no Christian believes he or she actually appointed for himself salvation or eternal life, but that, rather, we understand it in the way that Paul puts it to the Philippians:
"Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure." (Philippians 2:12-13)
Grace and peace to you, JBO.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
We understand being Born Again by divine revelation, you don’t need any Bible to know that you are a child of the most high.
Only Gods witness His Living Holy Spirit can deliver that divine revelation straight to our heart/ spirit.
Hence...The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....you cannot read that into being...again the natural man would think this nonsense and folly....so best ignore their posts as they will never get it...not until God decides to bring their spirit Alive in His by divine revelation.
You must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.....mind Blowing!!
The Holy Spirit is at work in the Born Again all day every day.......we also believe in our spirit, you can’t believe in God without being Born Of The Spirit.....you can believe in your own understanding by reading the Bible....but, you must be Born Again in your spirit to have direct contact with God via His witness His Living Holy Spirit....without the Spirit we are none of His...just as his word says.
Only Gods witness His Living Holy Spirit can deliver that divine revelation straight to our heart/ spirit.
Hence...The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....you cannot read that into being...again the natural man would think this nonsense and folly....so best ignore their posts as they will never get it...not until God decides to bring their spirit Alive in His by divine revelation.
You must be Born Again to see the Kingdom Of God.....mind Blowing!!
The Holy Spirit is at work in the Born Again all day every day.......we also believe in our spirit, you can’t believe in God without being Born Of The Spirit.....you can believe in your own understanding by reading the Bible....but, you must be Born Again in your spirit to have direct contact with God via His witness His Living Holy Spirit....without the Spirit we are none of His...just as his word says.
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Behold
Well-Known Member
Paul never confessed a sin, in any of His Epistles.
He did detail in personal bio, that before He was saved, He was a ""Chief of sinners"", because that is how he personally viewed what he had done, prior to being born again.
His "chief of sinners" Is Paul defining Himself, (pre-salvation), as a Christian Murderer.
So to Paul, that is a "CHIEF" sinner... the worst of the worst of all.
Paul also said in a teaching that is showing us how to escape the Law and Flesh..... He said... "what i would do, i can't"...
And then he continued to teach, and show us the way OUT of that... and into..."CHRIST always Gives me the VICTORY">. over the world, the flesh, and the devil".
A lot of novice Christians, who dont actually study a bible, ..only read.>>>"That which i dont want to do i do".. and they stopped there, and still dont seem to realize that Paul didnt stop there, and kept on, and wrote, 12.9 more Epistles, that they have not studied, and neither has their Cult.
Now...
Personal Discipleship is involved with our humanity... but, less and less so, as the Christian does this..
"I die daily"
"I can do all things through Christ"
"It is not I who live but Christ who lives in me".
2.) The mature BEHAVIOR of the Believer, attained, is this verse by Paul..
Philippians 4:11-13
I have learned to be content [and self-sufficient through Christ, satisfied to the point where I am not disturbed or uneasy] regardless of my circumstances.
Not that I speak in regard to need, for I have learned in whatever state I am, to be content:
I am not saying this out of need, for I have learned to be content regardless of my circumstances.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Another way that Paul explains this, is that you come to a place of Grace, within your heart, so that even when you are perplexed by Life... you are never Distressed by it.
Eternal life is knowing Him, being joined to Him, and one spirit with Him.
And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3
IOW's being in Christ. Being one with the Spirit of life in Christ.
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4
JLB
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Yes, and when did we get to know him?
The moment he saved us, and gave us eternal life..
Yes. That is how all of Gods children walk. Do you not believe he changes his people when he saves them? Why do you lack faith in God?
Amen
He who sins has never seen or known God.. But whoever is born of God can not live in sin
once again, Why do you lack faith in God to change his people? Have you jnot been changed by him is this why?
Yes, eternal life is being in Christ; being joined to Him, knowing Him.
If we don't remain in Him, then we no longer joined to the Spirit of Life in Christ.
If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
A person who is in Christ, has eternal life.
Jesus wants us to remain in Him. He gave us instructions as to how to remain in Him.
Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24
To me, it's important to follow what the Lord says.
His Commandments are not hard to keep, if you love Him.
“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 14:15
He who overcomes shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:7-8
Did you know that liars and homosexuals end up in the same place?
JLB
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Great!
You just made my point.
The fact that they were written to those that are DEAD means that the DEAD are ABLE to SEEK GOD.
Oh. Excuse me....did I misundertsand?
You mean THE SAVED are told they are to SEEK GOD??
I thought the saved, born again person, is ALREADY WITH GOD.
So the saved are still SEEKING GOD??
Please pick the verses of your choice and explain how they say what you've stated above.
Why do you twist scripture to suit your needs?
If GOD TELLS US
GOD TELLS US
To seek Him it means two things:
1. We are ABLE to seek God.
Would God tell you to do something He knows you cannot do??
Of course not.
2. It's the unsaved, or the wanderers that need to seek God.
NOT THE SAVED.
They've already found God.
Calvinism makes God a liar.
And those that do this will pay for it somehow.
God is probably not to happy that Calvinists change HIS NATURE.
Which is:
LOVING
MERCIFUL
JUST
Do you know what Just means?
In your own words....
And remember to pick a couple of verse out and we'll discuss them.
Try
Hebrews 11:6
6And without faith it is impossible to please him, for whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.
God rewards those who seek Him.
Please explain Hebrews 11:6
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
I don't disagree with any scripture, I believe every word in the Bible is Gods Word. But I do disagree with your interpretation of John 15:6 because you contradict yourself.
You claim that John 15:6 is a command, so if it is a command then Jesus was commanding thew wicked reprobate to abide in Him as well as the elect. According to you, "if anyone" includes everyone, including the wicked and elect. The problem with that is, the wicked were never in Christ in the first place. So, it doesn't make sense to suggest that Jesus commanded or instructed anyone to abide in Him.
To suggest that "abide in Me" is a command, is the same as suggesting that you must be born again. Jesus would never give us impossible commands, He knows that nobody can abide in Him or be born again or remain faithful to the end or do any other thing to help Him save you.
Nicodemus said to Jesus, this is impossible, who can be saved then. Jesus confirmed what Nicodemus said, Jesus said "you're right, it is impossible with men, but all things are possible with God". This confirms that we are not saved by anything we can contribute to the finished work of Jesus.
John 3:24 is not a command or instruction or suggestion, it simply states that those who keep His commandments and abide in Him, do so because his Holy Spirit enables them to do so. Again we see, it's not by anything we contribute but it's by the Holy Spirit that those who abide in Him and keep His commandments do so.
If God left it up to us to keep His commandments and abide in Him, nobody would be able to do so. That's why Jesus gave His people the comforter (Holy Spirit), so we can do all things through Him whom strengthens us.
Christian Soldier
Well-Known Member
To say that the dead are able to seek God, is a lie from the pits of hell. It's pure Demonic Doctrine and you have fallen victim to the lies of the Devil. You are saying that God is a liar and the Devil is speaking the truth.
Eph 2:5-6
even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus.
Notice, this is speaking to born again believers who were dead in trespasses, it says "made us alive together with Christ". Made us alive, doesn't mean the dead were seeking God. A dead man could never seek God, because he hates God and only loves sin.
Romans 3:10-12
10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/ROM.3.10-12
Gods Word tells us that none seek after God, but you say God is a liar and that dead men seek Him. There's no point in asking me to explain how those verses you listed don't support your false views. It's obvious your theology is not Biblically correct, so you don't have the capacity to discern the truth from lies. https://www.bible.com/bible/compare/ROM.3.10-12
Not a specific sin, no, but he was crystal clear about his remaining proclivity to sin:
"For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." (Romans 7:15-25)
Confession and repentance of sin ~ both to God and to each other ~ and asking for forgiveness should be constant and perpetual realities in our Christian walk. If anyone thinks otherwise... As John says, "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:8-9 Thanks be to God for that. Paul knew that very well.
Paul says "The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am..." ~ not "was" ~ "...the foremost." So, not former, but very much present. He is not a murderer anymore at that point, but still a sinner.
Hmmmm.... :) Well, we would all do well to remember what Paul said to the Philippians in Philippians 1:6 ~ "...He who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" ~ and 2:12-13 ~ "...work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure."
Grace and peace to you.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
(2 Corinthians 4:7–18) 1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase?2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life. 5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its desires.13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. The Wages of Sin 15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not! 16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness.21What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death. 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord |
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