Does "LAW" matter?

[Mjh29]

If you think about it, we (gentiles) were never invited to the law to begin with, only the Israelite's were given all the law-including the big 10... The Levitical laws were given to distinguish the Israelite's from the pagans-gentiles...hence, all the do not wear mixed materials, no shellfish and so ons. The 10 commandments are perfection and, no man but Jesus has ever fulfilled them, and no man could...although, with the Holy Spirit living within us now-after the cross-we can achieve, through the Holy Spirit more than we ever could on our own.

... What about Rehab? While I do agree that the Law to distinguish the Israel from the rest of the nations, that did not mean that the rest of the world was not obligated to keep the Law as well. It was given for the good of mankind! Did not all of the World owe God the respect and obedience?

- Does God not want ALL men to acknowledge Him as the only God?
- Does not God hate it when ANY NATION makes an idol and worship it over Him?
- Does it not make God angry when ANY NATION takes His name in vain?
- Does not God want us ALL to keep the Sabbath, a day which He instituted as a day of rest for all men?
- Does God not want children of ANY NATION to honor their father and mother?
-Does God not anger at a murder, or when one commits adultery, or bears false witness, or covets something He has blessed another with, regardless of the nationality of the one who committed it?

The Ten Commandments were given to man for our betterment, and even from the beginning, God wished for all the nations to bow to Him as King, as they rightfully should

 

[Stranger]

well I wish I could Agree, Read Luke chapt - 1 verses 5-6

You do recognize that the Law was still in place in (Luke 1:5-6). During Christ's earthly walk the Law was in place. Much of what Christ said was to a people under the Mosaic Law, as He was.

But, that ended with the Cross, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Stranger

 

[Nancy]

well I wish I could Agree, Read Luke chapt - 1 verses 5-6

I am not sure how John the baptist's foretelling has anything to do with gentiles being ever included/invited to the Law of Moses or any law Truth. Can you expound?

 

[Nancy]

I think Moses ‘accidently’ dropped the first copies of the stone tablets because it was too simple. One tablet said ‘love God’ and the other said ‘love neighbor’

 

[aspen]

... What about Rehab? While I do agree that the Law to distinguish the Israel from the rest of the nations, that did not mean that the rest of the world was not obligated to keep the Law as well. It was given for the good of mankind! Did not all of the World owe God the respect and obedience?View attachment 3646

- Does God not want ALL men to acknowledge Him as the only God?
- Does not God hate it when ANY NATION makes an idol and worship it over Him?
- Does it not make God angry when ANY NATION takes His name in vain?
- Does not God want us ALL to keep the Sabbath, a day which He instituted as a day of rest for all men?
- Does God not want children of ANY NATION to honor their father and mother?
-Does God not anger at a murder, or when one commits adultery, or bears false witness, or covets something He has blessed another with, regardless of the nationality of the one who committed it?

The Ten Commandments were given to man for our betterment, and even from the beginning, God wished for all the nations to bow to Him as King, as they rightfully should

Seems to me that children (we are adopted children of God) really don’t ‘owe’ their parents......we love our parents because we are called to love them.....the idea of debt towards others seems wrong to me. If we fail to allow God to lead us on the path towards love, we are going to really suffer. Reducing our relationships to transactions seems mechanical and devoid of the power to transform.

Your post seems quite transactional to me......is this your understanding of relationships?

 

[Truth]

You do recognize that the Law was still in place in (Luke 1:5-6). During Christ's earthly walk the Law was in place. Much of what Christ said was to a people under the Mosaic Law, as He was.

But, that ended with the Cross, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

Stranger

Yes it was!

The Point!!!------ they were blameless before the Law

 

[Truth]

I am not sure how John the baptist's foretelling has anything to do with gentiles being ever included/invited to the Law of Moses or any law Truth. Can you expound?

I should have sliced out where you claimed that no one could keep the Law, except Jesus!
Luke declares, that Zacharias and Elizabeth were Blameless before the Law, and She was still Barren.

 

[Nancy]

I should have sliced out where you claimed that no one could keep the Law, except Jesus!
Luke declares, that Zacharias and Elizabeth were Blameless before the Law, and She was still Barren.

"...that Zacharias and Elizabeth were Blameless before the Law..."
Galatians 3:11 says, “Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for The righteous shall live by faith."
Habakkuk 2:4 "
“Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him,
but the righteous shall live by his faith."
This is quoted in the above verse. So, IMHO, it still had to be faith. :)

 

[Stranger]

Yes it was!

The Point!!!------ they were blameless before the Law

They were righteous before God first, which can only be by faith. Because they were under law, their conduct would be so ordered.

Walking and being blameless in the commandments and ordinances of the Lord means their walk was blameless before God. It doesn't mean they didn't break the law. It means that when they did they brought the appropriate sacrifices. Sacrifices were as much a part of the Law as the 10 commandments were.

Stranger

 

[quietthinker]

Much of what Christ said was to a people under the Mosaic Law, as He was.

But, that ended with the Cross, death, burial, and resurrection of Christ.

You know, this sounds like a broken record of those who excuse and love their sins with no intention of changing anything.

 

[Stranger]

You know, this sounds like a broken record of those who excuse and love their sins with no intention of changing anything.

No, your complaint here is the broken record. Just because one believes we are no longer under law, doesn't mean we excuse and love our sins with no intent to repent of them.

It is a gross assumption on your part.

Stranger

 

[Andre]

Yeah, those are a tiny handful, but there are 613 "laws."

Yeah, those are a tiny handful, but there are 613 "laws

The wages of sin is death. That is the law God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because in the day that they did they would surely die. That was the law the penalty of which is death. The 613 laws you mention were decreed to lead the Hebrews along a path of righteousness. They were a temporary measure until the time was right for God to send His Son. These laws and statutes could never bring a man to salvation and the penalty of death still had to be paid. The law had to be satisfied to enable all mankind to come to salvation. Only Christ Jesus could do that. Only He could fulfill the law and save our sorry butts. The 10C however are God's royal laws applicable to all mankind for all eternity. They were in effect from the beginning even before Mount Sinai.

 

[Willie T]

The wages of sin is death. That is the law God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil because in the day that they did they would surely die. That was the law the penalty of which is death. The 613 laws you mention were decreed to lead the Hebrews along a path of righteousness. They were a temporary measure until the time was right for God to send His Son. These laws and statutes could never bring a man to salvation and the penalty of death still had to be paid. The law had to be satisfied to enable all mankind to come to salvation. Only Christ Jesus could do that. Only He could fulfill the law and save our sorry butts. The 10C however are God's royal laws applicable to all mankind for all eternity. They were in effect from the beginning even before Mount Sinai.

So, the original question that I opened this thread with still remains unanswered.
Does Law matter?
I gave a list of all 613, but I suspect no one has yet read them. Does the general consensus here mean that we, as non-Jews, are privileged to ignore 603 of those laws?

 

[Nancy]

So, the original question that I opened this thread with still remains unanswered.
Does Law matter?
I gave a list of all 613, but I suspect no one has yet read them. Does the general consensus here mean that we, as non-Jews, are privileged to ignore 603 of those laws?

IMO- Yes. These laws include the 10- "The Levitical Law did its job well, pointing out the sinfulness of mankind and condemning us for it. But, as powerful as it was in that regard, it was powerless in another way. Hebrews 7:18–19 tells us that the old Law was set aside “because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect).” The Law had no way of changing our sinful nature. We needed something better to accomplish that. In fact, Hebrews goes on to say that the Law was “only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never . . . make perfect those who draw near to worship” (Hebrews 10:1).
First, let’s clarify some terms. The Levites were the descendants of Levi, one of Jacob’s twelve sons. Moses was of the tribe of Levi, and when God delivered the Law to him on Mount Sinai, He marked the Levites as the tribe responsible for the primary religious duties in the nation. They were made priests, singers, and caretakers in the worship of God. In calling it the Levitical Law, we acknowledge that God revealed the Law through Moses, a Levite, and that God appointed the Levites as the religious leaders of Israel. The same Law is sometimes called “Mosaic” because it was given through Moses, and it is also referred to as the “Old Covenant,” because it is part of God’s promise to Abraham and his descendants.

To discover God’s purpose in the Law, we must first look at its inception, and the things God said to Moses about it. When Moses and the people arrived at Mount Sinai, God said, “Now if you obey me fully and keep my covenant, then out of all nations you will be my treasured possession. Although the whole earth is mine, you will be for me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation” (Exodus 19:5–6). The first mention of the Law to the nation was as a covenant—a legal agreement between God and the people He chose. The Israelites were required to obey it fully if they were to receive its benefits.

God began His introduction to the Law with the Ten Commandments, but the entire Law encompasses 613 commandments, as detailed in the rest of the books of Moses. Jesus summarized the Law as having two emphases: love for God and love for neighbors (Matthew 22:37–39). These emphases can be easily seen in the Ten Commandments: the first four commands focus on our relation to God, and the remainder focus on interpersonal relations. If we think that is the whole purpose of the Law, though, we miss an important element. Many of the individual commands give detailed instruction on how God was to be worshipped and how the people were to live their lives. As we will see, it is in those fine details that love was either shown or withheld."
https://www.gotquestions.org/Levitical-Law.html <--- Don't nobody be a hater, lol...sometimes gotquestions has good answers!

@Willie T
Forgot to quote what I answered yes to- " Does the general consensus here mean that we, as non-Jews, are privileged to ignore 603 of those laws?"

 

[Willie T]

I don't think anyone has read many (if any) of the list of 613 I posted. At least they are avoiding saying 'yes' or 'no' to obeying any of them. There is stuff on not flirting with family members... (not even 'skipping' with them)… not cheating people in business... not having sex with animals... etc. All sorts of things that are not covered by the two main ones.

Are you guys acting like God never told humans any of that? Much of this is NOT stuff people would automatically "know" just because they 'love the Lord.'

 

[Mjh29]

Seems to me that children (we are adopted children of God) really don’t ‘owe’ their parents......we love our parents because we are called to love them.....the idea of debt towards others seems wrong to me. If we fail to allow God to lead us on the path towards love, we are going to really suffer. Reducing our relationships to transactions seems mechanical and devoid of the power to transform.

Your post seems quite transactional to me......is this your understanding of relationships?

Yes. A relationship between a slave and a master is always a transactional one.

Ephesians 6:6
6Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. As slaves of Christ, do the will of God with all your heart

 

[Truth]

"...that Zacharias and Elizabeth were Blameless before the Law..."
Galatians 3:11 says, “Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for The righteous shall live by faith."
Habakkuk 2:4 "
“Behold, his soul is puffed up; it is not upright within him,
but the righteous shall live by his faith."
This is quoted in the above verse. So, IMHO, it still had to be faith. :)

How can we disagree! Faith, in what! In God, my point was that there are many souls that walked before the Lord blameless, the biggest problem with the people of Israel was that they chose to turn away from the Commandments! the sad truth is that for the most part many had enmity against the Commandments and God. Abraham was considered a man of Faith, why! because He believed God, and He also Obeyed Gods voice, kept Gods charge, kept Gods Commandments, Statutes, and His Laws, you see the whole of Gods requirements existed before Moses! Genesis 26:5. Abraham believed God, Loved God, and Obeyed God, So God Placed His Grace upon Abraham.

It was the Enmity toward God that was nailed to the Cross, through the Love Jesus had for us, how can we not Love Him, and in doing so we are more than willing to keep anything He asks. When Jesus said "If you Love me keep My Commandments" were these His Commandments or His Fathers, for He also states that He did not come in his own name, but came in His Fathers name. What the Son see's the Father do, that the Son does also!

 

[Truth]

I don't think anyone has read many (if any) of the list of 613 I posted. At least they are avoiding saying 'yes' or 'no' to obeying any of them. There is stuff on not flirting with family members... (not even 'skipping' with them)… not cheating people in business... not having sex with animals... etc. All sorts of things that are not covered by the two main ones.

Are you guys acting like God never told humans any of that? Much of this is NOT stuff people would automatically "know" just because they 'love the Lord.'

Thank You, I have taken the time to print the 613 Commandments, for study reference. I have a tendency to overlook Link's, So I think these will be a good Help, for just personal understanding, and also for discussion's!

 

[Willie T]

Thank You, I have taken the time to print the 613 Commandments, for study reference. I have a tendency to overlook Link's, So I think these will be a good Help, for just personal understanding, and also for discussion's!

Some really surprising things in that list that the average Christian would never ever think was part of how God wanted His people to live.

 

[Nancy]

How can we disagree! Faith, in what! In God, my point was that there are many souls that walked before the Lord blameless, the biggest problem with the people of Israel was that they chose to turn away from the Commandments! the sad truth is that for the most part many had enmity against the Commandments and God. Abraham was considered a man of Faith, why! because He believed God, and He also Obeyed Gods voice, kept Gods charge, kept Gods Commandments, Statutes, and His Laws, you see the whole of Gods requirements existed before Moses! Genesis 26:5. Abraham believed God, Loved God, and Obeyed God, So God Placed His Grace upon Abraham.

It was the Enmity toward God that was nailed to the Cross, through the Love Jesus had for us, how can we not Love Him, and in doing so we are more than willing to keep anything He asks. When Jesus said "If you Love me keep My Commandments" were these His Commandments or His Fathers, for He also states that He did not come in his own name, but came in His Fathers name. What the Son see's the Father do, that the Son does also!

I think I get what you are saying truth. I need to ask though do you think the OT saints were sinless?