Difficulty Reconciling

[Behold]

Here, you assert that my "opinion" that you have not answered the OP was an erroneous opinion;

The OP wrote a lot, and within that is the confusion about Eternal life.
So, to understand why Peace with God is Jesus, and this is gained by faith....is the answer.

but, later, you admitted that I was right

I admitted that i generally take a point from the Post, that i view as the core issue, or argument, and respond.
THat's what i do., usually......I address that.. point.

See, sometimes the OP does not know how to ask what they are trying to ask... and that is the real question.. even tho they can't quite manage it.

that you didn't answer the OP, because you weren't even trying to answer it.

I did answer it.. as ive explained in this series of Posts.

It seems like your practice is to try to put people down without thinking about what you're saying.

THat is a false accusation... @GodsGrace .
No need for that...
That is your personal opinion. as an innuendo, that is unprovable, but you wanted it to be heard.

Listen , my purpose on any forum, dealing with anyone, is exactly the same as me teaching students in a Classroom...
Its is to bring them out of any theology, that isn't Pauline Theology, as that is the true help they need.
Forums are a nestbed of Heresies... and so, this is always related to.. ZERO understanding of Paul's Doctrine.

Paul said that we are to come into the same "Mind". and that is the "knowledge of God" as HE understands Faith, and Salvation, and all things related to becoming a "new Creation in Christ".
When this is achieved by a Believer then Paul says .....>>"as many as be PERFECT"..........and they have become so.

 

[GracePeace]

The OP wrote a lot, and within that is the confusion about Eternal life.
So, to understand why Peace with God is Jesus, and this is gained by faith....is the answer.

The answer to the OP is going to be how you reconcile the passages which do not teach eternal life is by faith alone with the passages that seem to teach eternal life is by faith alone.

I admitted that i generally take a point from the Post, that i view as the core issue, or argument, and respond.
THat's what i do., usually......I address that.. point.

From our interactions, I gathered that my inference wasn't enough, but that I had to clarify that what I was asking was how you hold all of the passages, how you reconcile them.

See, sometimes the OP does not know how to ask what they are trying to ask... and that is the real question.. even tho they can't quite manage it.

I thought the inference was enough, but I went back and made it explicit : how do you all reconcile the following passages?

I did answer it.. as ive explained in this series of Posts.

I thought the inference was enough, but I went back and made it explicit : how do you all reconcile the following passages?

THat is a false accusation... @GodsGrace .
No need for that...
That is your personal opinion. as an innuendo, that is unprovable, but you wanted it to be heard.

It seems we have misunderstood one another, so I take it back.

Listen , my purpose on any forum, dealing with anyone, is exactly the same as me teaching students in a Classroom...
Its is to bring them out of any theology, that isn't Pauline Theology, as that is the true help they need.
Forums are a nestbed of Heresies... and so, this is always related to.. ZERO understanding of Paul's Doctrine.

Paul said that we are to come into the same "Mind". and that is the "knowledge of God" as HE understands Faith, and Salvation, and all things related to becoming a "new Creation in Christ".
When this is achieved by a Believer then Paul says .....>>"as many as be PERFECT"..........and they have become so.

I'm not asking about Paul, I'm asking about John.

 

[GracePeace]

Listen , my purpose on any forum, dealing with anyone, is exactly the same as me teaching students in a Classroom...

At least you're trying to help people--that is appreciated.

 

[quietthinker]

I have difficulty reconciling some verses in John.
How do you all reconcile the following verses?

1. On one hand, it seems like all we need to do to have eternal life is to believe in Jesus.

John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 6:29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent. ... 35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. ... 40For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

2a. On the other hand, it seems like mere belief is not enough, but, at bare minimum, one must deny oneself/not indulge in sin to the point of confessing faith in Christ (by adding "confession" to "faith", the "faith" required cannot be defined as "faith alone", but "faith... plus...")....

John 12:42Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

2b. In the same chapter that seems to define "drinking" and "eating" as "believing" (to have eternal life), He defines the eating and drinking as "doing the works of the One Who sent you".

John 4:32But He told them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.” ... 34Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.
6:56Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me.

2c. There are other passages that seem to teach the same (have to keep God's commands--both speaking and acting as He commands--to have eternal life) : here, eternal life, the Spirit, God's love, is only for those who keep Jesus's commands (both "believe" and "love one another").
John 12:49For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.
John 13:17 If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them.
John 14:21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.
John 15:10If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love... 12This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17This I command you, that you love one another.
1 John 3:23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

Your dilemma GP, arises because of where you focus is. Nevertheless, you are brave enough to admit there is a dilemma. Continue to be brave and self honest.

Lip service and intellectual assent does not qualify as believing. Believing is a complete (cognitive and emotion) investment in the values of the Kingdom of God. Not only is it cognitive it involves emotion....ie, e-motion = energy in motion.....it does, not just thinks.

Being in love is more than a cognitive exercise.....it involves the emotion.
Believing is being captured with the wonder of God's condescension and responding accordingly.

Perhaps you may conclude I haven't addressed/ answered your difficulty? I have in fact, addressed the very core of it.

 

[Behold]

The answer to the OP is going to be how you reconcile the passages which do not teach eternal life is by faith alone with the passages that seem to teach eternal life is by faith alone.

Jesus Himself is Eternal Life.

So, filter all verses that talk about receiving it or having it, through the understanding that Jesus Himself is Eternal life.

See, Salvation is 3 main Gifts from God.

1.) The Gift of Salvation
2.) The Gift of Righteousness
3.) The Gift of Eternal Life.

These are all Gifts from God, that are eternally based on the shed blood and death of Jesus.

Every gift that God offers us, is RECEIVED, not earned.

Here is a master key..

= Christianity is ALL Spiritual
= Christianity is entirely FAITH based.

"without Faith, its impossible to please God".

 

[GracePeace]

Jesus Himself is Eternal Life.

So, filter all verses that talk about receiving it or having it, through the understanding that Jesus Himself is Eternal life.

See, Salvation is 3 main Gifts from God.

1.) The Gift of Salvation
2.) The Gift of Righteousness
3.) The Gift of Eternal Life.

These are all Gifts from God, that are eternally based on the shed blood and death of Jesus.

Every gift that God offers us, is RECEIVED, not earned.

Here is a master key..

= Christianity is ALL Spiritual
= Christianity is entirely FAITH based.

"without Faith, its impossible to please God".

I'm thankful that you want to help, but I (the person you're wanting to help) also have to say that, I'm sorry, but this does nothing to reconcile the passages I asked about.

 

[face2face]

I have difficulty reconciling some verses in John.
How do you all reconcile the following verses?

1. On one hand, it seems like all we need to do to have eternal life is to believe in Jesus.

John 3:16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.
John 6:29Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent. ... 35Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst. 36“But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. ... 40For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
68Simon Peter answered Him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.

2a. On the other hand, it seems like mere belief is not enough, but, at bare minimum, one must deny oneself/not indulge in sin to the point of confessing faith in Christ (by adding "confession" to "faith", the "faith" required cannot be defined as "faith alone", but "faith... plus...")....

John 12:42Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

2b. In the same chapter that seems to define "drinking" and "eating" as "believing" (to have eternal life), He defines the eating and drinking as "doing the works of the One Who sent you".

John 4:32But He told them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.” ... 34Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.
6:56Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me.

2c. There are other passages that seem to teach the same (have to keep God's commands--both speaking and acting as He commands--to have eternal life) : here, eternal life, the Spirit, God's love, is only for those who keep Jesus's commands (both "believe" and "love one another").
John 12:49For I have not spoken on my own authority, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment—what to say and what to speak. 50 And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.
John 13:17 If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them.
John 14:21Whoever has my commandments and keeps them, he it is who loves me. And he who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I will love him and manifest myself to him.
John 15:10If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love... 12This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17This I command you, that you love one another.
1 John 3:23This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

“Has Eternal Life”

This life is in his son. 1 John 5:11-12.
Yet it is still a ‘hope’ Titus 1:1, which we have by promise. 1 John 2:25

F2F

 

[GracePeace]

“Has Eternal Life”

This life is in his son. 1 John 5:11-12.
Yet it is still a ‘hope’ Titus 1:1, which we have by promise. 1 John 2:25

F2F

As was mentioned in the OP, I was looking how you all reconciled the passages listed in the OP.

 

[face2face]

John 6:54

54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

“Last Day” Only then will that life be realised. Col. 3:4.

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

 

[Behold]

“Last Day” Only then will that life be realised. Col. 3:4.

The born again, have Jesus in them, right now.

And because Jesus "is the Resurrection" then they have that, in them, right now.

See, the CHRISTian, is joined to God and Christ, spiritually, so, this means that they are Joined to JESUS who "is the Resurrection".

This is why the "dead IN CHRIST".... will be resurrected, when Jesus comes for His BRIDE., and those who are alive will be RAPTURED and Meet Jesus in the Air.
Its the same event.

 

[GracePeace]

John 6:54

54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.

“Last Day” Only then will that life be realised. Col. 3:4.

When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Right, I did mention this verse, and I also mentioned the counterverses to it that I was asking how to reconcile with it :

2b. In the same chapter that seems to define "drinking" and "eating" as "believing" (to have eternal life), He defines the eating and drinking as "doing the works of the One Who sent you".

John 4:32But He told them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.” ... 34Jesus explained, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me and to finish His work.
John 6:56Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood remains in Me, and I in him. 57Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will live because of Me.

 

[face2face]

The born again, have Jesus in them, right now.

And because Jesus "is the Resurrection" then they have that, in them, right now.

See, the CHRISTian, is joined to God and Christ, spiritually, so, this means that they are Joined to JESUS who "is the Resurrection".

This is why the "dead IN CHRIST".... will be resurrected, when Jesus comes for His BRIDE., and those who are alive will be RAPTURED and Meet Jesus in the Air.
Its the same event.

Only by promise!
This is an essential criteria to understanding the true Gospel.
Also protects you from being deceived into thinking you have that life now, literally!
F2F

 

[face2face]

Right, I did mention this verse, and I also mentioned the counterverses to it that I was asking how to reconcile with it :

Correct, doing the works confirms those who "seek for immortality" Romans 2:7

If faith is the substance then works will evidence that faith and when your life appears he will give you that life.

Everything is held under promise!

“For no matter how many promises God has made, they are 'Yes' in Christ. And so through him the 'Amen' is spoken by us to the glory of God” (2 Corinthians 1:20)

Modern Christians who believe they have possession of Christ and that life, cannot reconcile your OP!

Those who allow their faith to work can

F2F

 

[GracePeace]

Only by promise!

When God "promised" Abraham he would have a son, Isaac, "at this time next year", did that mean Abraham didn't have to have sex with his wife?

 

[face2face]

When God "promised" Abraham he would have a son, Isaac, "at this time next year", did that mean Abraham didn't have to have sex with his wife?

Isaac was by promise and yes this required Abraham to act in faith, correct. Faith with inaction is not faith.

 

[GracePeace]

Correct, doing the works confirms those who "seek for immortality" Romans 2:7

In that same chapter, Paul warns the Jewish believers they are "storing up wrath" for themselves (meaning they wouldn't be "repaid eternal life"), even though they had believed.

If faith is the substance then works will evidence that faith and when your life appears he will give you that life.

No, many of the leaders believed, but they didn't confess their faith in Christ because they loved sin.
Therefore, faith does not "always" result in "evidence" of works.
Also, taking your position to its conclusion, Christians would never sin, but they do sin.

 

[GracePeace]

Isaac was by promise and yes this required Abraham to act in faith, correct. Faith with inaction is not faith.

Isn't it the case that James KNEW his audience had faith (ie, he accuses them of "adultery", meaning he knew they were "married" to God), and he was calling them to not only have faith, but to add works to their faith, so that the faith would be "complete", not "incomplete", so as to resurrect their faith to life? Isn't this what Paul says, "reprove, rebuke"--ie, make people get back in line in their behavior?

 

[face2face]

Isn't it the case that James KNEW his audience had faith (ie, he accuses them of "adultery", meaning he knew they were "married" to God), and he was calling them to not only have faith, but to add works to their faith, so that the faith would be "complete", not "incomplete", so as to resurrect their faith to life? Isn't this what Paul says, "reprove, rebuke"--ie, make people get back in line in their behavior?

Agree, there were issues with the Jerusalem Church on both side of the rich and poor - the call to a living faith is real for all members though their behavior as you put it would require radical changes for both parties. Failure to conform to the Word of God could result in a loss of life (spiritual).
F2F

 

[face2face]

Therefore, faith does not "always" result in "evidence" of works.

Incorrect, true faith always works otherwise its not faith.

 

[GracePeace]

Incorrect, true faith always works otherwise its not faith.

You just agreed with my "take" on James 2, but now you're disagreeing?