Different ideas

[amadeus]

A
The book is NOT about St. Teresa. She's the author only.
It's about how a person grows in their spirituality.
There are 7 rooms in this castle. It's an analogy to our spiritual life.
The first room is when we discover God and wish to commune with Him.
In the second room we get closer to God....and so on all the way to the 10th room.

I enjoyed it more than a biography, although those are great too.

Aha! Yes, I could possibly enjoy reading that. There was a nun in Mexico during the time of the conquistadors who wrote many beautiful things even though her original reason for being a nun were not what one might expect. I cannot recall her name now, but in a time and a culture where women really were very low of the totem pole, she very intelligent. Becoming a nun was the only place she would ever be allowed in a man's [male] world to be able to express her heart. I encountered not in study of God or the Bible or any such thing. I was a student of Spanish Literature.

 

[aspen]

Love St Teresa of Avila

 

[Helen]

Every believer when he first comes to God enters the first level of the Tabernacle, the outer court. The more wishy-washy Christians will move into that outer court and back to the world [outside the Tabernacle altogether]. Occasionally a believer will enter the second level or the Holy Place. Few attain a place in God where they are long within that second level. An even smaller portion of those who consistently enter the second level will ever enter the third level or the Holiest of Holies. That is where God dwells and no sin can ever enter there or be committed there. Noah's Ark makes it even clearer to me.

AMEN...YES...totally . :) I wish they had a thumbs up icon.

 

[pia]

But your chart has a different meaning than the one entered from @"ByGrace" .

Every believer when he first comes to God enters the first level of the Tabernacle, the outer court. The more wishy-washy Christians will move into that outer court and back to the world [outside the Tabernacle altogether]. Occasionally a believer will enter the second level or the Holy Place. Few attain a place in God where they are long within that second level. An even smaller portion of those who consistently enter the second level will ever enter the third level or the Holiest of Holies. That is where God dwells and no sin can ever enter there or be committed there. Noah's Ark makes it even clearer to me.

Totally ! Amen.................:) Pia

 

[pia]

what is resurrection then, to you?

THAT is a very good question???? hah

 

[Marakorpa]

@GodsGrace Oh great you are clever, you found a drawing AND posted it...I have no idea how to post pictures and stuff.
Yes, and in the overlapping parts of the circles I see the Heart in one, and the Mind in the other. :)
Our soul, under full sway of The Spirit ( and not the flesh) brings " The renewing of the mind..."...which
"..even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." I think this is vital for physical healing too! ie, Healing is within us, in our/His Spirit...it is convinced of in our Heart, the heart changes the soul and over rules the pains or whatever in out body...that renews the mind ( from the negative to the positive) and the body is revitalized.
I am beginning to believe that is how healing come...from God Spirit, into our bodily flesh.
I muse on this :)

This is a Buddhist doctrine, not Christian.

 

[Marakorpa]

I agree. I think if we could really tap into our bodies, we could heal ourselves.
Jesus said if we really had faith and/or believed, we could move mountains.
Virtually, but it means we could do a lot.
I just don't understand why we can't and what it would take to get there.
Not that I spend my days thinking about it.

I think I posted somewhere here, that those who pray heal faster. A secular study was done regarding healing and prayer.

Also, God IS the HEALER.
All good comes from God.

Have you ever witnessed auto-suggestion at work, or even the power of suggestion. Prayer in this form is auto-suggestion, this is why placebos work in clinical tests; however, Jesus was very specific when he told this followers how to pray, praying to Jesus is not the way, but praying to his Heavenly Father through Jesus is an assurance that your prayer will be heard.

Within weeks of Jesus’ return to heaven, his disciples were being harassed and threatened by their opposers. (Acts 4:18) Of course, they reached out in prayer

—but to whom did they turn? “They raised their voices with one accord to God,” praying that he would continue helping them “through the name of [his] holy servant Jesus.” (Acts 4:24, 30) So the disciples followed Jesus’ guidelines on prayer. They prayed to God, not to Jesus.

 

[Marakorpa]

@GodsGrace Oh great you are clever, you found a drawing AND posted it...I have no idea how to post pictures and stuff.
Yes, and in the overlapping parts of the circles I see the Heart in one, and the Mind in the other. :)
Our soul, under full sway of The Spirit ( and not the flesh) brings " The renewing of the mind..."...which
"..even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body." I think this is vital for physical healing too! ie, Healing is within us, in our/His Spirit...it is convinced of in our Heart, the heart changes the soul and over rules the pains or whatever in out body...that renews the mind ( from the negative to the positive) and the body is revitalized.
I am beginning to believe that is how healing come...from God Spirit, into our bodily flesh.
I muse on this :)

I simply dragged tiger down to the page. You can do the same by saving an image onto your notebook of desk top and then drag it to your work page, like I did here. Try it out, Drag your avatar.... Left click and hold and drag. I use Linux operating system so I am not sure of the terminology of other operating systems.

 

[mjrhealth]

Luk 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
Luk 14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
Luk 14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
Luk 14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
Luk 14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
Luk 14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

I can just imagine God, creating man, full well of the events to come, even to teh point of having a plan of salvation so that He can redeem His creation back to Himself. Do you really think God would allow His creation to fail?? If just one soul was lost than His whole plan of salvation is in trouble, do you really Think that the devil and man are greater than God, for it certainly seems that way.

and this

Luk 7:40 And Jesus answering said unto him, Simon, I have somewhat to say unto thee. And he saith, Master, say on.
Luk 7:41 There was a certain creditor which had two debtors: the one owed five hundred pence, and the other fifty.
Luk 7:42 And when they had nothing to pay, he frankly forgave them both. Tell me therefore, which of them will love him most?
Luk 7:43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

So I guess God has a plan, now if we would only let Him complete it without getting in teh way.

 

[GodsGrace]

"The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with his teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish." Psalm 112:10
"All thine enemies have opened their mouth against thee: they hiss and gnash the teeth: they say, We have swallowed her up: certainly this is the day that we looked for; we have found, we have seen it." Lam 2:16
"With hypocritical mockers in feasts, they gnashed upon me with their teeth." Psalm 35:16
"When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth." Acts 7:54

Where was Stephen when they gnashed on him with their teeth? Who did the gnashing?

Why must the place of darkness necessarily be someplace outside of our natural experience?

Consider what Jesus did:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13
This speaks of the three heavens of which Jesus left the third to come down to the 1st where most potential or real believers were or could be. Of course, many people walking around weren't in heaven at all but were already dead spiritually. They had never met and received the Life which Jesus was/is. Jesus confirms this here:

"But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead." Matt 8:22

The three heavens would correspond to the three levels of the Tabernacle built in the wilderness or the three levels of salvation in the ark built by Noah.

Hi A

Yes. I've heard the above. Also the fact that "hell" was translated incorrectly.
Hell, as we understand it, would be in 2 Peter 2:4 but that was reserved for fallen angels.

You brought up Mathew 8:22, "let the dead bury the dead".
I'm very interested in the Kingdom of God and in Luke 9:60 he continues Jesus's words with...
"Let the dead bury their own dead, but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the Kingdom of God."

So one Kingdom is in heaven where God resides.
Another Kingdom is right here on earth and right now.

Where is the third Kingdom?

 

[GodsGrace]

[

I simply dragged tiger down to the page. You can do the same by saving an image onto your notebook of desk top and then drag it to your work page, like I did here. Try it out, Drag your avatar.... Left click and hold and drag. I use Linux operating system so I am not sure of the terminology of other operating systems.

Your method works for other operating systems too.

It is easier, however, to just cut the url address on the image you want,
come here and use the media tools up on the tool bar.

For an image there's the image icon right next to the smiley face and for video there's the film icon right next to that.

Click on it, paste the url address and click OK.

It saves a couple of steps from how you do this.
But anything could work !

 

[GodsGrace]

Have you ever witnessed auto-suggestion at work, or even the power of suggestion. Prayer in this form is auto-suggestion, this is why placebos work in clinical tests; however, Jesus was very specific when he told this followers how to pray, praying to Jesus is not the way, but praying to his Heavenly Father through Jesus is an assurance that your prayer will be heard.

Within weeks of Jesus’ return to heaven, his disciples were being harassed and threatened by their opposers. (Acts 4:18) Of course, they reached out in prayer

—but to whom did they turn? “They raised their voices with one accord to God,” praying that he would continue helping them “through the name of [his] holy servant Jesus.” (Acts 4:24, 30) So the disciples followed Jesus’ guidelines on prayer. They prayed to God, not to Jesus.

I get them mixed up when I pray.
Sometimes I say LORD and sometimes I say Lord.
Sometimes I end with "I pray in the mighty name of Jesus"
and sometimes I end with Thank you LORD or Lord.

Prayer is communion with God.
God hears ALL prayer. There is no set standard.
When Jesus taught the Apostles HOW to pray, it was an example.
It tells us WHAT we're supposed to pray for and what we should require from God and not necessarily what we want.

There is no incorrect way of praying.
THANK YOU is a prayer.
GOD I LOVE YOU is a prayer.

Not to mention the fact that we do believe in the Trinity.
God has separate attributes in the 3 persons, however,
ALL THREE are God. Some pray to the Holy Spirit. Nothing wrong with that either.

Do you realize that the verse you posted is used by those who believe that Jesus is not God? But only God's servant. It makes me wonder if you're one of those...

 

[bbyrd009]

God is the head of Christ is as close as i would care to come there

 

[bbyrd009]

THAT is a very good question???? hah

don't guess it's gonna get a reply though?

 

[amadeus]

Hi A

Yes. I've heard the above. Also the fact that "hell" was translated incorrectly.
Hell, as we understand it, would be in 2 Peter 2:4 but that was reserved for fallen angels.

You brought up Mathew 8:22, "let the dead bury the dead".
I'm very interested in the Kingdom of God and in Luke 9:60 he continues Jesus's words with...
"Let the dead bury their own dead, but as for you, go and proclaim everywhere the Kingdom of God."

So one Kingdom is in heaven where God resides.
Another Kingdom is right here on earth and right now.

Where is the third Kingdom?

I would not call them kingdoms although some might. I call them the three heavens. Each one is closer to God than where we were when we were born to our natural mothers. There are fairly direct references to third heaven in the NT. One is here:

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven." II Cor 12:2

I do not recall the other one precisely but I believe it is the Book of Revelation.

Jesus speaks of his own connection to the three heavens here if we can understand it:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

I will write what I see, but it is not clear to me and may be in error in places. God isn't finished with yet:

In John 3:13 Jesus is saying that he came from heaven initially, which is 3rd heaven a place depicted by the Holiest of Holies in the tabernacle built by Moses in the wilderness. The limited access to that part of the tabernacle is a type or shadow of the real thing. But, the verse also says that Jesus is in heaven. I believe that while walking on the earth as a man of flesh he was always in 2nd heaven, a place where a person is always in direct communication with the Father. Once Adam and Eve had been put outside of the Garden of Eden [second heaven while they were in it] they were not even in 1st heaven any more, but could be perhaps at times were. But, they could not enter even 2nd heaven anymore. For them to have entered 3rd heaven, they would have had to eat of the Tree of Life while still in the garden. They did not, but ate rather of the forbidden tree and lost their opportunity.

Jesus came and paid the price for us so that we could immediately enter 1st heaven again. When we really repent first heaven is where we start.
When we are able to get into the Spirit, that is in Jesus and stay there for a period of time we will have entered second heaven. Many have done this, but most of the time they shortly return to 1st heaven. In 1st heaven a person can sin, but when they do they are put back outside again.

The devil on the mount with Jesus tempted Jesus to sin. Jesus rebuked him and defeated him with the Word of God. Being the Word of God we can understand that. Perhaps at that time and when Jesus was praying to the Father to remove the cup [Matt 26:39] he had moved from 2nd back to 1st heaven. But when he overcame the devil on the mount and when he expressed himself with the words "nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.", it certainly was back in 2nd heaven.

When Jesus went to his Father again [ascension] he certainly returned to 3rd heaven.

 

[GodsGrace]

I would not call them kingdoms although some might. I call them the three heavens. Each one is closer to God than where we were when we were born to our natural mothers. There are fairly direct references to third heaven in the NT. One is here:

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven." II Cor 12:2

I do not recall the other one precisely but I believe it is the Book of Revelation.

Jesus speaks of his own connection to the three heavens here if we can understand it:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13

I will write what I see, but it is not clear to me and may be in error in places. God isn't finished with yet:

In John 3:13 Jesus is saying that he came from heaven initially, which is 3rd heaven a place depicted by the Holiest of Holies in the tabernacle built by Moses in the wilderness. The limited access to that part of the tabernacle is a type or shadow of the real thing. But, the verse also says that Jesus is in heaven. I believe that while walking on the earth as a man of flesh he was always in 2nd heaven, a place where a person is always in direct communication with the Father. Once Adam and Eve had been put outside of the Garden of Eden [second heaven while they were in it] they were not even in 1st heaven any more, but could be perhaps at times were. But, they could not enter even 2nd heaven anymore. For them to have entered 3rd heaven, they would have had to eat of the Tree of Life while still in the garden. They did not, but ate rather of the forbidden tree and lost their opportunity.

Jesus came and paid the price for us so that we could immediately enter 1st heaven again. When we really repent first heaven is where we start.
When we are able to get into the Spirit, that is in Jesus and stay there for a period of time we will have entered second heaven. Many have done this, but most of the time they shortly return to 1st heaven. In 1st heaven a person can sin, but when they do they are put back outside again.

The devil on the mount with Jesus tempted Jesus to sin. Jesus rebuked him and defeated him with the Word of God. Being the Word of God we can understand that. Perhaps at that time and when Jesus was praying to the Father to remove the cup [Matt 26:39] he had moved from 2nd back to 1st heaven. But when he overcame the devil on the mount and when he expressed himself with the words "nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.", it certainly was back in 2nd heaven.

When Jesus went to his Father again [ascension] he certainly returned to 3rd heaven.

I believe the first heaven is here. The earthly Kingdom of God.
The second heaven is outer space
The third heaven is where God resides.

I don't know about this so I'm posting some links for anyone interested.
The two are slightly different but both are interesting:

Are there different levels of Heaven? Are there three heavens?

And this one actually speaks of the three heavens:

Three Heavens | Learn The Bible

 

[amadeus]

I believe the first heaven is here. The earthly Kingdom of God.
The second heaven is outer space
The third heaven is where God resides.

I don't know about this so I'm posting some links for anyone interested.
The two are slightly different but both are interesting:

Are there different levels of Heaven? Are there three heavens?

And this one actually speaks of the three heavens:

Three Heavens | Learn The Bible

Of course I have heard those definitions before, but what I believe is something, to me, more biblical for it is really found throughout the scriptures. I have scarcely scratched the surface, but God is not finished with yet.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

The "through a glass darkly" is at best a 2nd heaven view. The "face to face" is in 3rd heaven. Consider Moses:

"And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend... Exodus 33:11

But later in the same chapter we read...

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20

Man's ability or to see God is very dependent on where a man is at the moment. Moses saw more than most Christians have seen, but because of Jesus any Christian is able to see more than Moses ever saw while he was leading the children of Israel.

Remember also these words about John the Baptist:

"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Matt 11:11

The Baptist lived and died as a man of God before Jesus was crucified and resurrected and before the Holy Ghost was poured out for whosoever will.

All of these things, I believe, relate to the heavens I have mentioned.

An understanding of unclean beasts, clean beasts and human beings saved in the Ark Noah built and elsewhere in scripture will also relate. But... as the Apostle Paul put it: "only God gives the increase". Starting as an unclean beast, can we be moved upward to a clean beast and finally to a human being at the very highest level of the Ark?

 

[Job]

God is the head of Christ is as close as i would care to come there

Your posts make no sense whatsoever.

o

 

[bbyrd009]

Your posts make no sense whatsoever.

o

lol ya, i get that a lot

1Cor11:3But I want you to know that Christ is the head of every man, and the man is the head of the woman, and God is the head of Christ.

 

[GodsGrace]

Of course I have heard those definitions before, but what I believe is something, to me, more biblical for it is really found throughout the scriptures. I have scarcely scratched the surface, but God is not finished with yet.

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

The "through a glass darkly" is at best a 2nd heaven view. The "face to face" is in 3rd heaven. Consider Moses:

"And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend... Exodus 33:11

But later in the same chapter we read...

"And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live." Exodus 33:20

Man's ability or to see God is very dependent on where a man is at the moment. Moses saw more than most Christians have seen, but because of Jesus any Christian is able to see more than Moses ever saw while he was leading the children of Israel.

Remember also these words about John the Baptist:

"Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Matt 11:11

The Baptist lived and died as a man of God before Jesus was crucified and resurrected and before the Holy Ghost was poured out for whosoever will.

All of these things, I believe, relate to the heavens I have mentioned.

An understanding of unclean beasts, clean beasts and human beings saved in the Ark Noah built and elsewhere in scripture will also relate. But... as the Apostle Paul put it: "only God gives the increase". Starting as an unclean beast, can we be moved upward to a clean beast and finally to a human being at the very highest level of the Ark?

I think very few make it to the highest level of the ark.
But at least we move up from being an unclean beast and make it, mabye, to human being. Seems like it should be easy to be what we were meant to be, but ole' split hooves Always gets into the act.

I believe we are "covered" by Christ and God sees us as He would see His Son.
If not, how could we ever make it to heaven??