Did God Need Jesus' Sacrifice to Make You Acceptable to Him?

[Richard_oti]

This has typically meant to me past sins..... and it was in relation to the past laws.

Indeed. But to what "past laws"?

 

[KBCid]

Indeed. But to what "past laws"?

those prior to the new covenant. If one considers things correctly... the old laws of sacrifice for sins were a "temporary" thing put in place that foreshadowed the permanent thing that would come to be. Thus the permanent had to pay the past due bills accumulated during the waiting time. So, the Son took the place of any of the old sacrificial animals and will now be the permanent sacrifice offered by a sinner for their past sins since as the sacrificial law showed that all sacrifices were done for past sins.
Imagine a Jew trying to complete a sacrificial rite if he was a knowing participant in continuing sinful acts. What would he possibly gain? Why should Christ's sacrifice be extended to cover the sins of a wanton sinner?

 

[Richard_oti]

those prior to the new covenant. If one considers things correctly... the old laws of sacrifice for sins were a "temporary" thing put in place that foreshadowed the permanent thing that would come to be. Thus the permanent had to pay the past due bills accumulated during the waiting time. So, the Son took the place of any of the old sacrificial animals and will now be the permanent sacrifice offered by a sinner for their past sins since as the sacrificial law showed that all sacrifices were done for past sins.
Imagine a Jew trying to complete a sacrificial rite if he was a knowing participant in continuing sinful acts. What would he possibly gain?

How would you apply it to someone today, who knows or knew not any of the "old"?

For Paul was writing after the new was established and to those of Rome, speaking unto gentiles as much as anyone. The same Paul, who stated: "For our passover also hath been sacrificed".

Why should Christ's sacrifice be extended to cover the sins of a wanton sinner?

It isn't.

Heb 10:17 And their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins

Heb 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?


Yet, has that really changed?


Num 15:27 And if one person sin unwittingly, then he shall offer a she-goat a year old for a sin-offering. 28 And the priest shall make atonement for the soul that erreth, when he sinneth unwittingly, before YHVH, to make atonement for him; and he shall be forgiven.

Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth aught with a high hand, whether he be home-born or a sojourner, the same blasphemeth YHVH; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31 Because he hath despised the word of YHVH, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

 

[pia]

I always found the word "aforetime" here rather interesting

Great...Thanks for that.....I had literally never given it a thought, but saw instantly, that I should have...:)

 

[KBCid]

How would you apply it to someone today, who knows or knew not any of the "old"? For Paul was writing after the new was established and to those of Rome, speaking unto gentiles as much as anyone. The same Paul, who stated: "For our passover also hath been sacrificed".

There is much the spirit is passing before my eyes Richard and before I can answer your specific question I must touch this first "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness". There was a reason the Son told the multitudes to do the things contained in that verse before they would be baptized into His name. We too are told to seek these things first else how might we form a faith in the promises yet to be given.
We are to comprehend both the kingdom promised to come and the righteousness of God that will exist throughout it and then we must decide if that is what we desire. If we come to the Son simply to gain eternal life then we have not considered correctly what it will mean to exist in the Fathers kingdom. To desire to be in the kingdom we must also have the desire to be righteous just as all who exist there will be.
To answer your question now Richard... once a person determines that he does in fact desire the full meaning implied then they should come to make their commitment and be baptized in the name of the Son and only the Son since there is no other name given under heaven for that purpose. Accepting the Son as the only permanent sacrifice for your past sins is where you draw a line in your sinful existence and ask from the heart that that HE will give you the comforter to be your guide during the remaining time upon the earth and that you will no longer be ruled over by sin but in all things following as the Holy Spirit guides you to become like our example... Christ... sinless.

QUOTE="Richard_oti,
Heb 10:17 And their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. 18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins
Heb 10:28 A man that hath set at nought Moses law dieth without compassion on the word of two or three witnesses: 29 of how much sorer punishment, think ye, shall he be judged worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant wherewith he was sanctified an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? QUOTE

I can only magnify...

Yet, has that really changed?
Num 15:27 And if one person sin unwittingly, then he shall offer a she-goat a year old for a sin-offering. 28 And the priest shall make atonement for the soul that erreth, when he sinneth unwittingly, before YHVH, to make atonement for him; and he shall be forgiven.
Num 15:30 But the soul that doeth aught with a high hand (knowingly & willfully), whether he be home-born or a sojourner, the same blasphemeth YHVH; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
31 Because he hath despised the word of YHVH, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.

Only if God can change.

 

[Richard_oti]

There is much the spirit is passing before my eyes Richard and before I can answer your specific question I must touch this first "But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness".

Indubitably! For that IMO should ever be before us.

There was a reason the Son told the multitudes to do the things contained in that verse before they would be baptized into His name. We too are told to seek these things first else how might we form a faith in the promises yet to be given.
We are to comprehend both the kingdom promised to come and the righteousness of God that will exist throughout it and then we must decide if that is what we desire. If we come to the Son simply to gain eternal life then we have not considered correctly what it will mean to exist in the Fathers kingdom. To desire to be in the kingdom we must also have the desire to be righteous just as all who exist there will be.

Hear! Hear!

Something that I myself have deeply considered. Perhaps too much so. Considered starting a thread about that. But decided against it when I considered the possibilities of where such would / could go.

To answer your question now Richard... once a person determines that he does in fact desire the full meaning implied then they should come to make their commitment and be baptized in the name of the Son and only the Son since there is no other name given under heaven for that purpose.

While I can appreciate the "idealism" of the above. IMO it is not the reality. It takes years IMO to come to a "fuller" depth of understanding of the above. Notice I said "fuller" and not the "fullness" thereof. Because I do not think that any of us can truly comprehend the "fullness" thereof.

Most of us are "baptized" well before we come anywhere near comprehending / understanding even a fraction of the above. And while I agree, that baptism is in the name of the Son, I would not go so far as to attempt to invalidate any baptism as per the Matthew account.

Consider the Acts 8 account which you recently mentioned. Did the eunuch possess the full meaning before he was baptized?

Accepting the Son as the only permanent sacrifice for your past sins is where you draw a line in your sinful existence and ask from the heart that that HE will give you the comforter to be your guide during the remaining time upon the earth and that you will no longer be ruled over by sin but in all things following as the Holy Spirit guides you to become like our example... Christ... sinless.

While I agree, that we are to strive to sin no more, it is faith in the blood. The blood of what "sacrifice"? And what does that "sacrifice" provide?

Yes, I am a pain.

<snip>

Only if God can change.

Indubitably!

 

[Blessed15]

Are you laboring under the impression that God needed Christ's sacrifice in order to make you saved or acceptable to Him? Because that is a lie, ok, straight from hell and pastors. If you think you have some verse that supports this notion, then post it and let's see.

Have you yourself got verses which support your stance?

 

[Grams]

WOW ! That is a hard question........... ? maybe half ? maybe none ? I can not figure that one out at all !

 

[Miss Hepburn]

WOW ! That is a hard question........... ? maybe half ? maybe none ? I can not figure that one out at all !

Are you referring to the ques above your post? Or the op? Thanks.

 

[Grams]

------"""
WOW ! That is a hard question........... ? maybe half ? maybe none ? I can not figure that one out at all !
Click to expand...
Are you referring to the ques above your post? Or the op? Thanks.
-----------''''''



[[[[[[ Are you laboring under the impression that God needed Christ's sacrifice in order to make you saved or acceptable to Him? Because that is a lie, ok, straight from hell and pastors. If you think you have some verse that supports this notion, then post it and let's see.]]]]]]]

 

[bbyrd009]

Have you yourself got verses which support your stance?

well, hard to prove a negative, right, although many vv support the position that imo God made quite clear to Adam @ "Who told you that you were naked?"

"I desire mercy, not sacrifice,"
"No Son of Man may die for another's sins," etc

 

[bbyrd009]

I can not figure that one out at all !

wadr "Who told you..?" is crystal clear, but it just doesn't fit with the characterization you have been given, so what you got now is "cognitive dissonance."

 

[Helen]

wadr

Okay...I have searched google..I have asked every which way from Sunday "what does - wadr- mean"...I pulled up all the internet slang..and abrev's..and none of them have YOURS...do you make up your own?
If so can you share them with us.
I know all the main often used ones...but never come across wadr before anywhere.

Waiting and watching this space!! :)

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Okay...I have searched google..I have asked every which way from Sunday "what does - wadr- mean"...I pulled up all the internet slang..and abrev's..and none of them have YOURS...do you make up your own?
If so can you share them with us.
I know all the main often used ones...but never come across wadr before anywhere.

Waiting and watching this space!! :)

I had to type in many abbreviations bb uses...but I believe I just came out and asked him this one..."with all due respect".
I thought it was a typo until I saw it 3 xs!

 

[aspen]

Seems to me that we are separated from God because we are self loathing - we cant see how much God already loves us

 

[Helen]

I had to type in many abbreviations bb uses...but I believe I just came out and asked him this one..."with all due respect".
I thought it was a typo until I saw it 3 xs!

Oh thanks ...he still didn't answer me...too many posts this morning and they moved very fast....easily for one to slip by.
Now you say it, NOW it is obvious.
I kept on trying to make something fit, but couldn't.
( strange how irritating it is when it slips away like a wet bar of soap. Ha!)

Thanx

 

[Helen]

Seems to me that we are separated from God because we are self loathing - we cant see how much God already loves us

I can't relate....do you mean before we were "made nigh by the blood" or do you mean right now?

 

[Pisteuo]

Oh thanks ...he still didn't answer me...too many posts this morning and they moved very fast....easily for one to slip by.
Now you say it, NOW it is obvious.
I kept on trying to make something fit, but couldn't.
( strange how irritating it is when it slips away like a wet bar of soap. Ha!)

Thanx

Lol. wadr took me forever with him too. Think I finally googled it. The one throwing me off lately is "iow". Could be "I often wonder" or "in other words". I've been trying to read them both ways to see how he's using it.

 

[Helen]

Lol. wadr took me forever with him too. Think I finally googled it. The one throwing me off lately is "iow". Could be "I often wonder" or "in other words". I've been trying to read them both ways to see how he's using it.

No, IOW is "In other words" :)
Fun aint it!! haha! He does really make us work for it doesn't he. lol

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Seems to me that we are separated from God because we are self loathing -
we cant see how much God already loves us

And why is there self loathing? [That's for each person to ans...not to me.]
Would you say anything that keeps us from God is a sin or missing the mark?
Then, I would say it is mandatory to stop self loathing (shame, guilt, low self esteem,
negativity...and the off loading it or projecting it on others!)...and fast.
Get with the program and realize who you* are...and see yourself as God sees us...
Let Him go about His business loving us!! :] Lifting us up to Him....throwing us up in the air like the Father He is!
☺
*Not you personally