Did God Need Jesus' Sacrifice to Make You Acceptable to Him?

[VictoryinJesus]

well, i completely agree, Christ was needed, that is not in dispute. That it is so "precious" to you ends up being the whole point there though, see; physical death is meaningless to God, Who can make believers out of rocks if He wants to, and can give and take life at will. You needed a sacrifice, and so you got one. And if Nehushtan is sufficient for you, you will worship Jesus instead of manifesting Christ--the common "you" here ok, i doubt that describes you.

You right...in the wilderness they demanded meat and they got it to the fullest. I agree with you that physical death to God is not the end-all that it is to us. But for us; it would be the end-all without the resurrection. Much more happened(spiritually) in the death and resurrection of Christ that we can not even fully comprehend yet. He drank the cup of wrath in our place. It was MUCH more than physical. He was forsaken.

Psalm 30:2-5 KJV
[2] O Lord my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. [3] O Lord , thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit. [4] Sing unto the Lord , O ye saints of his, and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness. [5] For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

believers out of rocks if He wants to,

And He did. Ezekiel 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:

The heart of flesh He gives the body is Christ's. A sound mind.

Matthew 3:9 KJV
[9] And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.


Luke 19:38-40 KJV
[38] Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.

[40] And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out.

 

[bbyrd009]

bb, thank you....OMgosh ...you gave a LINK!
Bless you.

lol. You might see that there is a lot of stuff we are not even addressing, Nehushtan was not named in the Wilderness for a reason, etc. Everything in the story is for a reason.

 

[bbyrd009]

You right...in the wilderness they demanded meat and they got it to the fullest.

they actually got sick on the meat, right, should be mentioned i guess

 

[bbyrd009]

But for us; it would be the end-all without the resurrection. Much more happened(spiritually) in the death and resurrection of Christ that we can not even fully comprehend yet. He drank the cup of wrath in our place. It was MUCH more than physical. He was forsaken.

well, as you point out, all for us. All of those elements are installed to make the sacrifice meaningful for us. And i agree that Christ is not fully comprehended when He is worshipped, like a snake on a pole, yes. See how this disturbs the concept of Trinity, as well as the one of Original Sin. Christ is not to be worshipped, even though that is usually implied in church too, right.

believing that Christ died for your sins is great, when it leads you to breaking up Nehushtan, see, and it is otherwise irrelevant, because "No Son of Man may die for the sins of another; the soul that sins will die" is still also true. i realize that is OT, but there is plenty of NT support for this.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

they actually got sick on the meat, right, should be mentioned i guess

Yes, their appetite for something other than (manna)bread from heaven (Gods provision) spoiled them. I do get what you are saying and I thank you. I probably need to be reminded. Don't worship idols. Don't worship rocks. Don't worship snakes on poles. Don't worship crosses. Worship God. But still, blood was shed to cover mine and your sin. A one time sacrifice that finished it.

 

[bbyrd009]

Psalm 30:2-5 KJV
[2] O Lord my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me. [3] O Lord , thou hast brought up my soul from the grave: thou hast kept me alive, that I should not go down to the pit.

a great argument against the "death must still be overcome, death has not been overcome yet" language that...many believers forward, huh. Who was that, lemme see... @EndTimeWine

 

[bbyrd009]

[5] For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.

yes, when the light dawns. Assuming it does; and this is a huge assumption imo, in the face of many will cry LordLord

 

[bbyrd009]

But still, blood was shed to cover mine and your sin. A one time sacrifice that finished it.

at least you hope, yes. I would be keeping an open mind there, at "it is finished," and i suggest what was finished is also occluded, to be sought out. All you have done here imo is to restate the concept of Nehushtan worship, without realizing it. See how now "pick up your cross and follow" is negated; all i have to do is "believe in Jesus," or iow "worship Jesus." i don't have to change my mind at all then, whew

 

[bbyrd009]

so briefly, what we might witness is the Wanderers getting...oh, i guess "bored" or "unsatisfied" with the manna(Christ), and also trying to "put the manna aside for tomorrow" (gee, what could we possibly compare that with lol), and demanding "meat," which they got sick on, and then complaining to the point that snakes are manifested, wherein they must Look Up to a snake on a pole to "save" them, noting that they all died in the end anyway. Perfect illustration of the end of most believers, who cry LordLord, imo.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes, their appetite for something other than (manna)bread from heaven (Gods provision) spoiled them.

understand the comment this makes about believing that worshipping Jesus for supposedly giving us a Get Out Of Jail Free card is the thing to do, ok. the meat here is going to make one sick, iow. One cannot keep Christ in a container for tomorrow, which is what all is, right. "I now have Jesus, so i will be all good; tomorrow."

 

[bbyrd009]

But still, blood was shed to cover mine and your sin. A one time sacrifice that finished it.

and scapegoats are an essential part of the equation, see how scapegoat figures in to that understanding. You need a scapegoat? Then God provides one, as uncomfortable as this reality might make most ppl. You do the same for your children, right?

iow Christ is meant to bring one to the concept of rebound (poorly translated repentance), which includes confession, first. Confession is made unto salvation. Of course ol' Tassel-Toes is anxious to assure us that "confession" there really means profession, but then after he gets "it is finished" all messed up, what should you expect. You get what you are paying for if you cannot see that one plain imo, and everyone is happy i guess, at least for now lol. Or at least confident enough to go condemning Muslims that they cannot even witness any sins coming from.

 

[Job]

yes; now perhaps "The Son of Man must be raised up like a snake on a pole..." might be realized for what it is really saying.

What is it really saying?

 

[bbyrd009]

What is it really saying?

ha, well, understand that i am not stating that i know anything unequivocally here, ok; you might likely derive even deeper understandings from this passage, but imo "in order to draw all men unto Himself" is kind of the kicker here, iow not "in order to save all men who believe in Him," which wouldn't that be the correct ending, if it were true?

So a valid perspective here is quite possibly, "I have to go and do this not because God needs it, but because people need it in order to be drawn to, eventually, confession and repentance." because people need a scapegoat, see, otherwise their mental "door" just slams shut, and after all we are basically trying to bring an ego out of hiding here. Psychology is used, in order to keep the door open, is another way of seeing that. God is basically trying to get ppl who believe sacrificing an animal covers their sins to a point where they can confess when they are wrong, and receive forgiveness, right--but there are quite a few intermediate steps in there, and "it is finished" is strictly Step 1, except for Nehushtan worshippers

Surely someone with kids could post a similar parable from IRL?

 

[Job]

ha, well, understand that i am not stating that i know anything unequivocally here, ok; you might likely derive even deeper understandings from this passage, but imo "in order to draw all men unto Himself" is kind of the kicker here, iow not "in order to save all men who believe in Him," which wouldn't that be the correct ending, if it were true?

That's not what it means.

 

[bbyrd009]

That's not what it means.

to you, perhaps, i agree that you might derive other interpretations, yes.


but imo it should be understood that little kids do not need any of this, right; until they become "adults," and lose their First Love, which we briefly get another peek at, at our Public Professions, right, when we imagine that we have at last, Found It, only to be disillusioned once again. Because we don't then go suddenly acting on the advice of little children in a matter, do we, except still for a little chuckle, right.

 

[bbyrd009]

but if you start out telling ppl that all they need to do to realize the Kingdom is to start listening to little kids, you are going to be dismissed out-of-hand, see, because to adults that is "impossible."

 

[Job]

to you, perhaps, i agree that you might derive other interpretations, yes.


but imo it should be understood that little kids do not need any of this, right; until they become "adults," and lose their First Love, which we briefly get another peek at, at our Public Professions, right, when we imagine that we have at last, Found It, only to be disillusioned once again. Because we don't then go suddenly acting on the advice of little children in a matter, do we, except still for a little chuckle, right.

In plain english...what does that passage mean? What is the interpretation of that passage?

If you don't know, just say so.

 

[bbyrd009]

In plain english...what does that passage mean? What is the interpretation of that passage?

If you don't know, just say so.

ha well i don't know, that is why we call them "interpretations," right. And i have already restated this a couple different ways just this morning...

"I have to go and do this not because God needs it, but because people need it in order to be drawn to, eventually, confession and repentance."

being one (that was, incidentally, a reply to you directly).

See that "The Son of Man must be raised up like a snake on a pole because God required a sacrifice" is just not in there ok
why God "forsaked" Jesus on the cross maybe we can deal with shortly, in this light, because the stock reply there is crap too

 

[Job]

ha well i don't know, that is why we call them "interpretations," right. And i have already restated this a couple different ways just this morning...
being one, that was, incidentally, a reply to you directly.

See that "The Son of Man must be raised up like a snake on a pole because God required a sacrifice" is just not in there ok

Ok, so you have no idea what it means. Instead of making stuff up, you should just leave it alone.