Dead to the Law

[theefaith]

Trying to Teach “ Grace” To a Stiff-Necked Religionist is like trying to explain “ colors” to a blind man....they can Never understand It....perhaps it is time to “shake the dust from our feet”....and just try to move on....
We would be remiss if we failed to acknowledge them for unknowingly serving as “springboards” to get the True Gospel Of Grace out there for Newbies....In a nutshell that would be “ Nothing But The Blood” for your Salvation...
Do you Believe that Jesus is the Risen Lord? According to Romans 10:9.....simply Believing THAT ( Plus Nothing) is enough to get you Saved.....RUN , don’t walk from anybody that says different....

better run from Paul then cos he says different!

1 cor 2:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

1 cor 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.

Phil 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1 Thessalonians 1:3
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;
(WORK of faith?)

1 Timothy 6:11
But thou, O man of God, flee these things; and follow after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, meekness.
(Works)

Hebrews 6:12
That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
(Promises of Salvation?)

And Jesus

Revelation 2:19
I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
(Works? Really?) I thought you said grace alone? And faith alone? And Christ alone? How many alones can you have anyway?

 

[theefaith]

I've already explained it, I distinctly remember it, but you don't even remember!

Jesus didn't baptize anyone, John 4:2, that should tell you something! Paul said that he only baptized a few, that also should tell you something.

In John 3:22 it was the disciples that baptized the people! The very next verse, vs 23 tells us John the Baptist was also baptizing.

Theologians say that Jesus was having His disciples to baptize to show that He was agreeing with the baptism of repentance that John preached. John had introduced Israel to Christ, now Christ was showing the people John was accepted of God and was chosen for this mission.

The baptism of John was to repentance. John said that the Messiah was among us, and so He was when He came to be baptized by John. In John 3:22 Jesus was showing Israel that John the Baptist was not some religious fanatic, he was part of the plan.

The water baptism that John performed didn't save anyone, it was the repentance that saved! He not only introduced Christ to the Jews and actually the world, he introduced the New Covenant in Christ through repentance of sins by faith in the Messiah and the visual effects of our spiritual union with Christ in the death, burial, and resurrection by water baptism.

We are spiritually baptized, immersed into Christ before we can be physically water baptized in water.

Matt. 3:11

"I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:"

This is the spiritual baptism into Christ that Paul preached and gave to us in his epistles.

so Jesus is already delegating His authority time His church!

so Paul is only saying that his primary mission is to teach, that’s not anti-baptism

what happened to the Bible alone, now we gotta suffer theologians? Spare us oh Lord!

no such thing as spiritual baptism
Christian baptism is water baptism in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit
The fire is the love of God shed abroad in our hearts rom 5:5

ez 36:25-27
Water baptism
New hearts
Holy Spirit

 

[theefaith]

Trying to Teach “ Grace” To a Stiff-Necked Religionist is like trying to explain “ colors” to a blind man....they can Never understand It....perhaps it is time to “shake the dust from our feet”....and just try to move on....
We would be remiss if we failed to acknowledge them for unknowingly serving as “springboards” to get the True Gospel Of Grace out there for Newbies....In a nutshell that would be “ Nothing But The Blood” for your Salvation...
Do you Believe that Jesus is the Risen Lord? According to Romans 10:9.....simply Believing THAT ( Plus Nothing) is enough to get you Saved.....RUN , don’t walk from anybody that says different....

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Works?

 

[theefaith]

Trying to Teach “ Grace” To a Stiff-Necked Religionist is like trying to explain “ colors” to a blind man....they can Never understand It....perhaps it is time to “shake the dust from our feet”....and just try to move on....
We would be remiss if we failed to acknowledge them for unknowingly serving as “springboards” to get the True Gospel Of Grace out there for Newbies....In a nutshell that would be “ Nothing But The Blood” for your Salvation...
Do you Believe that Jesus is the Risen Lord? According to Romans 10:9.....simply Believing THAT ( Plus Nothing) is enough to get you Saved.....RUN , don’t walk from anybody that says different....

the Protestant conundrum is not that I don’t know enough scripture to be Protestant, but that I know too much scripture to be Protestant!

the catholic conundrum is that we have to tell those who believe they are saved and have eternal security that they are deceived and actually don’t have either!

 

[BarneyFife]

1) from my pov, water baptism in Jesus' Name is not mandatory for salvation;

2) The Bible itself teaches us that we are to place our faith, to a certain extent, in our baptism, in Colossians 2:12. We are to have "faith in the operation of God".

3) In that when we were baptized in Jesus' Name, we identified with Him in his death, burial, and resurrection. And in doing so, it was a profound and public confession of Jesus Christ before men. And as the result, Jesus will confess before His Father and before the angels, all those who submit to this ordinance (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

Not necessarily directed at you, chum, but I can't understand why folks slice and dice the Bible and argue about requirements for salvation (I'll never forget the first time I heard the new word "salvational"--I was aghast). Especially since there are so many simple, plain statements in the Bible regarding what God requires, the sum of which could expressed in this way:

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Matthew 4:4)

Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man. (Ecclesiastes 12:13)

What could be clearer? And yet men are content and even delighted to label all of the Commands of God in the Old Testament "old covenant" relics, as if God saved people differently before Christ came into the world. Dispensationalism is a scourge that will prove fatal to too many folks.

 

[BarneyFife]

I declare that no man is saved without 100% faith in Christ! It cannot be faith in Christ plus water baptism, that is a divided faith that leaves less than 100% faith in Christ. It is saying Christ's death on the Cross was not enough, I have to add to it. That ain't gonna cut it with God!

Not only water baptism, but anything you can think of to make mandatory for salvation added to faith in Christ.

Hebrews 11 is full of examples of what faith looks like.

 

[BarneyFife]

1) from my pov, water baptism in Jesus' Name is not mandatory for salvation;

2) The Bible itself teaches us that we are to place our faith, to a certain extent, in our baptism, in Colossians 2:12. We are to have "faith in the operation of God".

3) In that when we were baptized in Jesus' Name, we identified with Him in his death, burial, and resurrection. And in doing so, it was a profound and public confession of Jesus Christ before men. And as the result, Jesus will confess before His Father and before the angels, all those who submit to this ordinance (Matthew 10:32, Luke 12:8).

Again, not directed at you, but baptism is a simple subject, like any other. Even our baptisms are polluted with our selfishness. That is why:

Matthew 3
13Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him. 14But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

All of our righteousness is as filthy rags. Even our baptism. Total depravity. Everything but Christ is defiled. All of our good works are just meager offerings that must be covered by the seamless garment of Christ's righteousness (even His baptism). The only difference between us and the antediluvians who were swept away by the flood and whose thoughts were only evil continually is the blood of Christ. Even at our most sanctified state, Christ is still our substitute. And He will be the source of every good gift throughout eternity. He is worthy to be praised!!!

 

[BarneyFife]

The Blood of Jesus is the "bible method of Salvation".

What is yours?

The Blood of Jesus is the "bible method of Salvation".

What is yours?

I don't have one. And the one in the Bible doesn't include eternal security. Your interpretation is no better than any other human being's, so why act like it is?

 

[BarneyFife]

If you have sin, then Jesus is not your Savior.

Yeah, if you disregard 1 John 1:8.

 

[BarneyFife]

Jesus didn't baptize anyone, John 4:2, that should tell you something! Paul said that he only baptized a few, that also should tell you something.

Faulty hermeneutic, there--logical fallacy, too

Theologians say that Jesus was having His disciples to baptize to show that He was agreeing with the baptism of repentance that John preached. John had introduced Israel to Christ, now Christ was showing the people John was accepted of God and was chosen for this mission.

Well, if Theologians say it, it must be true.

The water baptism that John performed didn't save anyone

More preaching to the choir

I don't see that, could you explain how i've done that?

My mistake. It's just that your way of explaining paradox in Scripture (the Paul/James thing) is confusing. I guess that's on me. :)

 

[Charlie24]

Faulty hermeneutic, there--logical fallacy, too

Well, if Theologians say it, it must be true.

More preaching to the choir

My mistake. It's just that your way of explaining paradox in Scripture (the Paul/James thing) is confusing. I guess that's on me. :)

No, the Paul/James thing is on me if you don't understand what I have said.

Obviously I did a poor job of explaining!

What exactly do you not understand, I will try to clarify?

 

[theefaith]

Hebrews 11 is full of examples of what faith looks like.

Christ commanded baptism Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19

 

[justbyfaith]

If you have sin, then Jesus is not your Savior.

If you say that you have no sin (and you do), then Jesus is not your Saviour (you deceive yourself and the truth is not in you). 1 John 1:8.

You post against Grace, while claiming that you teach the bible.

No, I do not post against grace. However, I do preach the whole counsel of God.

Also, i dont judge your heart. I judge your words, just like you'll be judged for them after you die.
See, its our words that justify or condemn us..
Its our words that define us as Galatian 1:8.
Its your words that talk about "abiding" and "water" and "works" and "confessing your sin", that define= your faith.

Abiding...1 John 2:27...1 John 3:6...1 John 2:17.

Water...John 3:5...1 Peter 3:20-21...Ezekiel 36:25-27...Romans 6:1-4...Galatians 3:27...Colossians 2:12...and more.

Confessing your sin....1 John 1:7-9.

See, these things that you count as heresy are biblical doctrines...very likely because your belief is the heresy that contradicts those scriptures.

 

[BarneyFife]

No, the Paul/James thing is on me if you don't understand what I have said.

Obviously I did a poor job of explaining!

What exactly do you not understand, I will try to clarify?

Not a problem. I understand the paradox just fine. Thanks, anyway.

 

[BarneyFife]

Christ commanded baptism Mk 16:16 Matt 28:19

Preachin' to the choir, there, Ange. :)

 

[BloodBought 1953]

It’s hard to believe that anybody with any Bible Knowledge
Is still preaching the Law when Christians are “ dead to the Law”.....and “ by the Law, NO man will be Justified ...
Assuming these things to be True, you had better come up with a different way to get Saved no matter what “ label” you put on it.....
We are Saved when we hear and Believe the Gospel contained in 1Cor15:1-4......This side of the Cross ( the Cross changed many, many things) , Jesus gave only TWO Commandments....#1 Believe.....#2 Love....
Slap a detrimental label on it, pretend nothing has changed due to Christ’s Sacrifice for sins, and do as you wish......the facts are the facts....obey those two rules and everything else will take care of itself ( 1 John3:23 ) ....if that were not true, Jesus sure did a good job of deceiving the entire Believing World , didn't he—- leaving valuable stuff out in that manner.....not likely.....

 

[theefaith]

It’s hard to believe that anybody with any Bible Knowledge
Is still preaching the Law when Christians are “ dead to the Law”.....and “ by the Law, NO man will be Justified ...
Assuming these things to be True, you had better come up with a different way to get Saved no matter what “ label” you put on it.....
We are Saved when we hear and Believe the Gospel contained in 1Cor15:1-4......This side of the Cross ( the Cross changed many, many things) , Jesus gave only TWO Commandments....#1 Believe.....#2 Love....
Slap a detrimental label on it, pretend nothing has changed due to Christ’s Sacrifice for sins, and do as you wish......the facts are the facts....obey those two rules and everything else will take care of itself ( 1 John3:23 ) ....if that were not true, Jesus sure did a good job of deceiving the entire Believing World , didn't he—- leaving valuable stuff out in that manner.....not likely.....

faith and baptism have nothing to do with law
But with covenant

 

[BloodBought 1953]

faith and baptism have nothing to do with law
But with covenant

“ But with Covenant ?” You must be referring to an Old Covenant and a New Covenant ..sounds like that Damnable “ Dispensation to me...

Of course you are a “ Dispensationalist”...... everyone that has a Bible That is divided into Two Sections ( the Old testament and the New Testament is) or are you a Jewish man with just the Old Testament ? Oy Vey!.....Lol.....

 

[justbyfaith]

It’s hard to believe that anybody with any Bible Knowledge
Is still preaching the Law when Christians are “ dead to the Law”.....and “ by the Law, NO man will be Justified ...

Evangelists with Bible knowledge are aware of "Hell's Best Kept Secret"...that the law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv))...and therefore is profitable as a subject for preaching.

Also, Christians are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), and are not under the law (Romans 6:14) as concerning condemnation...

Yet it still abides as a governing factor in the heart of every person who is under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14; Romans 5:5).

Jas 1:22, But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23, For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24, For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The law as a schoolmaster...

This by nature means that when the child is fully trained by the schoolmaster, he has learned to be obedient to what has been taught him by the schoolmaster without needing the schoolmaster to watch over him any more.

When we come to Christ, we are no longer under a schoolmaster...

However, because we have come to Christ, the love of the Lord has been shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5)...and this love is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

 

[Charlie24]

Evangelists with Bible knowledge are aware of "Hell's Best Kept Secret"...that the law is a schoolmaster to lead men to Christ (Galatians 3:24, Romans 3:20, Psalms 19:7 (kjv))...and therefore is profitable as a subject for preaching.

Also, Christians are dead to the law (Romans 7:4, Galatians 2:19), are delivered from the law (Romans 7:6), and are not under the law (Romans 6:14) as concerning condemnation...

Yet it still abides as a governing factor in the heart of every person who is under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8:8-10, Hebrews 10:16, Romans 8:7, Romans 8:4, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14; Romans 5:5).

Jas 1:22, But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
Jas 1:23, For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jas 1:24, For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jas 1:25, But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

The law as a schoolmaster...

This by nature means that when the child is fully trained by the schoolmaster, he has learned to be obedient to what has been taught him by the schoolmaster without needing the schoolmaster to watch over him any more.

When we come to Christ, we are no longer under a schoolmaster...

However, because we have come to Christ, the love of the Lord has been shed abroad in our hearts (Romans 5:5)...and this love is the fulfilling of the righteousness of the law within us (Romans 13:8-10, Galatians 5:14, 1 John 5:3, 2 John 1:6, Romans 8:4).

The moral Law is God's standard for righteousness!

How do you keep that Law under the New Covenant, jbf?