Yes, and it even says we are no longer to see male or female, slave or free.
Church Bashing
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Yes, and it even says we are no longer to see male or female, slave or free.
"...Jew or Greek, all one in Christ, Amen,
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
True enough. As my previous post mentioned ... in today's politically correct environment.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Well, my point was about you guarding against the apparent man hating in this forum.
I'd have to know more details about the person who is harming his flock. Feel free to PM me.
I don’t have to pm you, I don’t have any qualms about speaking to everyone. By the way, does it work if you say “person” but then say “his” in the same sentence…?
The person who is harming is one who, for one instance, teaches Eternal Torment of Unbelievers. Not only is it untrue and he is speaking wrongly about God, but it brings harm to those who swallow it because then THEY are taught to judge and condemn unbelievers to a fate they won’t have, so then they also speak wrongly about God, AND bring judgement on themselves since we aren’t to judge anything before the time concerning unbelievers. And, by what they’re taught, and then repeat, they make men look more merciful than God, because even a man will put down any animal in great torment so as to not see it suffer that torment any more.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
No. I often use the genderless word "one." For instance, For those people who hate, it says more about the one doing the hating than those they hate.
BTW, I often use the "his" and "man" as you do unless I am being critical generally of people.
So, it is truly a doctrinal dispute. It sounds like a Baptist preacher I knew. My wife could not stand his fire and brimstone style. I'm sure there has to be greener pastures near you. Or are you committed to the people of the congregation and just object to the current pastor and the doctrines espoused?
No, I don’t go to a church. I do have a small gathering I’m not currently meeting with. In all the churches I tried, they all taught freewill and eternal torment of unbelievers, which speak wrongly about God. They also taught Jesus’ commands as law you must keep outwardly when not a single man on earth can clean the inside of his cup. Teaching men the outside of the cup and law does not help them. It harms them.
Who have I hated…? That’s the problem, saying I won’t sit and listen to a man doing harm to others is not hating him…
This forum has been a good opportunity to encounter people with whom I have some strong disagreements on any number of things, but who seem (not that I know) to be Spirit filled. But the one thing we agree on is that we are trusting in Jesus to provide our salvation. I know there's a line drawn somewhere, but I'm not convinced I'm the one to declare it. So I just want to be teaching and encouraging in the faith, without tearing down.
Much love!
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We need to be very careful whom we choose to listen to. We need to know what the Bible teaches, and compare our overseers to that. There are some so-called spiritual guides who will make a mess of your mind. Shipwreck your faith, in Biblical parlance. Ground you in works and fear, among other things.
Much love!
It seems to me the Bible shows a plurality of elders in the churches. I think that is wise.
Much love!
I haven't gotten into "free will" with you, so leaving that aside until you tell me more your objection and what free will is, but regarding eternal torment,
Where do you draw the line between a man teaching it, and me pointing to where the Bible says it? I'm not claiming to teach anything, but I am pointing to where the Scripture says it.
And isn't more harm done when someone promotes the view that the Bible says things it doesn't mean? That it shouldn't be trusted? That it's not God's Holy Word, upon which we can rely completely?
Much love!
You have to take all the verses. You literally have to take all the word of God. So you can point out one verse and argue that all men are already born having eternal life in them and that second death does not really mean death and perish does not really mean perish. Or you can take all the verses and examine them together and TEST what you think or have been taught by men.
Who has promoted the view that the Bible says things it doesn’t mean?
It says, there is only one way to eternal life. But some men say all men have eternal life when they are born.
It says the lake of fire is the second death, but some men say death does not mean what it says there because no men ever die but all men ever born live eternally.
So WHO has promoted the view that the Bible says things it doesn’t mean?
And there is so much danger in it. First, it makes men hiss that God is a nasty torturer and they say, you can keep your God! So your false doctrine/leaven has turned them away and made them refuse to go to Him, because your God is LESS merciful than humans, who would not leave even an ANIMAL to torment but would put it out of its tortuous pain!
Secondly, it harms the one who has swallowed it and believes it, they just don’t know it yet.
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You are promoting that somehow Jesus, when He foretells this coming judgment which will end with some being sent into everlasting torment, that it won't really, because somehow that disagrees with the rest of the Bible.
Yes of course. Bible 1A.
So you really don't like what it says, and you have a way to negate His Words. I don't work like that. I read what God wrote, and I believe it.
Taught by men? It's right there in the Bible. Jesus said it. It's right there.
I suggest you test your ideas to what the Bible itself says. Plainly.
It's hard for me to think of a time when I've had some significant disagreement over Biblical doctrine that didn't conclude in this exact way, that one of us will have been reading a verse, but interpreting it contrary to what it said. When I find myself doing that, I re-examine everything, and find better understandings.
When I find others doing that, well, it's a mixed bag. Some will grow from it, others will reject it in favor of their ideas, which apparently you continue to maintain the words don't mean what they say.
You persist with an unbiblical understanding of death. You wrote, death is the opposite of life. Jesus said Eternal Life is to know God. So then, isn't it fair to say in your definitions, death is to not know God? And eternal death is to not know God forever? Where does that leave your annihilation?
And if the unrighteous actually ARE sent into eternal torment, and you teach men that they will know the comfort and peace of annihilation, who is harming whom?
Knowing God is eternal life, and the only way to the Father is through the Son, Who will judge the living, and, the dead. And the unrighteous will be sent into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels, and will have everlasting torment. This is all straightforward, plainly written Scripture.
Yet you somehow know better.
Much love!
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So you are saying it's wrong. But I say it's not. And so I hold to the written Word, and in this case, you apparently do not.
Much love!
Many verses. I thought I posted a list of several earlier in the thread, but posts like that seem often overlooked. I'll post a new one, but maybe after I've had my lunch.
Dead in trespasses = separated from God because of sin
Physically dead = separated from your body such as Samuel, others,
Both of these, God can and does raise.
Second death = lake of fire = eternal separation from God
Much love!
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