Church Bashing

[marks]

John 17:3 LITV
3) And this is everlasting life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent.

Everlasting life = Knowing God, therefore, if death is the opposite of life, death = not knowing God.

He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the sun has not life.

They have passed from death into life.

And you being dead in trespass . . .

Death is separation.

Much love!

 

[farouk]

Kind of like when thorns, and thistles, and weeds started sprouting where there were none before.

Hi @Nancy Sounds like the Parable of the Sower also....

Hope you had a great Christmas....

 

[Nancy]

Hi @Nancy Sounds like the Parable of the Sower also....

Hope you had a great Christmas....

Thank you Farouk, you too!

 

[Nancy]

One of the Targums, I think it was Jonathan, it was some years ago, it made mention that "their worm dieth not", that this referred to the remains of a man, that he is the worm, the destroyed man. "Their worm" would be another way of saying "their remains die not", something like that.

To me this relates to Psalm 22, "But I am a worm and not a man", prophesied of Jesus being crucified.

Much love!

Ah, good catch...we really have to learn not to "skim," over scripture...should have a fine toothed comb when reading/hearing the word. Thanks.

 

[FHII]

Submit to a man who is messing with people’s eternal destinies? You would be an utter fool to submit to that.

Stunned, I have to ask... Do you have a problem with men? I've noticed a tone in a few of your posts.

First thing I will bring up is that yes, you need to be under a shepherd. That is, a preacher. You need to be in a flock (congregation) as it it seen throughout the Bible. If you believe otherwise, you have a massive amount of verses from the Bible that you will have to contend with.

Second, if my suspicions are correct, you need not fear having a man as a spiritual guide. That is, if he truly is a man of God. Would you have a problem submitting under Jesus, Peter or Paul? I hope not... Now do you think that there are like minded men around today? Perhaps few and far in-between, but I hope so.

A man who is not a true man of God CANNOT mess with your eternal destiny. At least, not change it for worse. You need not worry about them.

But you do not want your eternal destiny solely in your own hands. No man (or woman) is an unbiased judge of their own character or righteousness.

 

[farouk]

Stunned, I have to ask... Do you have a problem with men? I've noticed a tone in a few of your posts.

First thing I will bring up is that yes, you need to be under a shepherd. That is, a preacher. You need to be in a flock (congregation) as it it seen throughout the Bible. If you believe otherwise, you have a massive amount of verses from the Bible that you will have to contend with.

Second, if my suspicions are correct, you need not fear having a man as a spiritual guide. That is, if he truly is a man of God. Would you have a problem submitting under Jesus, Peter or Paul? I hope not... Now do you think that there are like minded men around today? Perhaps few and far in-between, but I hope so.

A man who is not a true man of God CANNOT mess with your eternal destiny. At least, not change it for worse. You need not worry about them.

But you do not want your eternal destiny solely in your own hands. No man (or woman) is an unbiased judge of their own character or righteousness.

Hi @FHII Preferably a plurality; interesting how the words pastors and teachers occur in the plural...

 

[farouk]

Ah, good catch...we really have to learn not to "skim," over scripture...should have a fine toothed comb when reading/hearing the word. Thanks.

@Nancy There is an exercise and discipline about searching the Scriptures.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Stunned, I have to ask... Do you have a problem with men? I've noticed a tone in a few of your posts.

No. I just say men because it’s easier to type than men and women!

 

[FHII]

Hi @FHII Preferably a plurality; interesting how the words pastors and teachers occur in the plural...

Oh really? "Pastor" (singular) is in the Bible 11 times. "Pastors" (plural) only once.

Teacher vs teachers is 13-9. So yea.... Interesting.

 

[FHII]

No. I just say men because it’s easier to type than men and women!

Ok.... Tough to tell with writing. But... The evidence is still overwhelming. You need a preacher!

 

[farouk]

Oh really? "Pastor" (singular) is in the Bible 11 times. "Pastors" (plural) only once.

Teacher vs teachers is 13-9. So yea.... Interesting.

In the context of the local church, it's the Lord Jesus Who is the Head, not a preacher (1 Cor. 11). Continuing steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine (Acts 2.42) does not depend on one man, imho.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

First thing I will bring up is that yes, you need to be under a shepherd. That is, a preacher. You need to be in a flock (congregation) as it it seen throughout the Bible. If you believe otherwise, you have a massive amount of verses from the Bible that you will have to contend with.

I do have a Shepherd. And I listen to Him and so when I hear someone teaching Freewill and Eternal Torment of Unbelievers, why would I call them my shepherd? Shepherds don’t give things to a flock that harms them, only hired hands do that.
And actually, I do have a gathering but had to leave for a time and at various times since then, I’ve thought my heart would just break over having to do so and I greatly desire to get back to them but am waiting because it’s what I’m supposed to do for now.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Second, if my suspicions are correct, you need not fear having a man as a spiritual guide. That is, if he truly is a man of God. Would you have a problem submitting under Jesus, Peter or Paul? I hope not... Now do you think that there are like minded men around today? Perhaps few and far in-between, but I hope so.

Jesus, Peter or Paul would not be speaking wrongly about God as all the preachers do in gatherings/churches I went to. So I haven’t found that man of God out there in a church. I have found one in a small gathering who at least doesn’t harm anyone but as I said, I had to leave for a time.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

A man who is not a true man of God CANNOT mess with your eternal destiny.

He can’t change mine, that is true. But he sure does prevent others from entering in, and so I see absolutely no reason to listen to him. In fact, I flee him.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

But you do not want your eternal destiny solely in your own hands. No man (or woman) is an unbiased judge of their own character or righteousness.

It’s not in my own hands. I know who I trust in and I’ve seen, repeatedly and continually, that He is faithful. But I certainly won’t let a man be a judge of my character or righteousness who speaks wrongly about God and breeds in his listeners the exact things that must die.

 

[Wrangler]

No. I just say men because it’s easier to type than men and women!

In today's politically correct environment, I wonder if feminazi's would accept constant bashing of women under the pretext of 'it’s easier to type than men and women?' And what does that say about commitment to equality?

P-e-o-p-l-e. Just 3 more letters than men. Not a big price to show your misanthropic rather than misandric.

Although you are stunnedbygrace, it would not hurt if you could find it in yourself to extend grace - even to those men and women - you are evidently down about.

Make a blessed day!

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I've heard enough generalized church bashing to last the rest of my life.

God tells us that if we create division in the body of Christ, be warned, if you destroy God's temple, He will destroy you.

Jesus said, Upon this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

But how many have a heard declare, "Western Christianity is a failure", "the church has become corrupt", on and on it goes.

Well, I have a couple of responses. First of which, if this is your experience, find a new church to attend! Seek until you find faithful believers. They are there. God will lead you to them.

Secondly, how in the world do you know what my church is like? Simple answer. You don't. So why make out like it's all so rotten? Does that make you feel better to sit over all of Christendom in judgment? Think about it.

And thirdly, who are you helping in telling everyone there isn't any good church anywhere? Why not be good church?

OK, I could go on, but, rant over.

Much love!

As imperfect as it may be, conflicted and apparently divided, the BODY of CHRIST is composed of all believers in Christ: Catholic, Protestant, Non-Denominational, even Non-Trinitarians. Those who put their faith in Christ and have been transformed, born again and follow Christ are in the BODY. And many don't even know what this means.
My parents were renegades, rebelling backsliders for their entire lives and yet, bearing fruit of the Spirit - go figure. It took the reality of death that crept up on them in their last days before they saw the LIGHT. God got their attention - they had nowhere else to go. To their surprise, He was always their for them and working in their lives.

Since God is SOVEREIGN, His plan is perfect and therefore everyone who is written in the Book of Life has been or will be accounted for. He will save all whom He chooses and so His plan is right on schedule. Therefore, we must conclude that since we do have sin that dwells in the members of our flesh and there is a battle going on between the flesh and the spirit, He must factor in all our failures into His plan. Even some churches that seem perfect and growing, bearing much fruit, they are not.

We are so condemning because of our flesh and because we do not see the whole picture. So yes, let us stop attacking each other.

 

[Nancy]

No. I just say men because it’s easier to type than men and women!

 

[stunnedbygrace]

In today's politically correct environment, I wonder if feminazi's would accept constant bashing of women under the pretext of 'it’s easier to type than men and women?' And what does that say about commitment to equality?

P-e-o-p-l-e. Just 3 more letters than men. Not a big price to show your misanthropic rather than misandric.

Although you are stunnedbygrace, it would not hurt if you could find it in yourself to extend grace - even to those men and women - you are evidently down about.

Make a blessed day!

Im not going to argue over “men” or “people.” I say men and when I say it, it means mankind.

I would very much to hear how you think I should show grace to a people person who is harming his people flock. What would that look like, in your own words?

edit to add: I’m not being mean, I talk openly and honestly, but I’m aware it looks like mean sometimes.

 

[Nancy]

Im not going to argue over “men” or “people.” I say men and when I say it, it means mankind.

I would very much to hear how you think I should show grace to a people person who is harming his people flock. What would that look like, in your own words?

Even the bible uses "men" to encompass humanity.