Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Cassandra]

So? They are given separate from the ten commands, and were never called the covenant on two tables of stone, as the Decalogue was.


Thus the two love commands which Jesus and Paul said fulfills ALL THE LAW of God, have superseded and replaced the Decalogue, which once again WAS the old covenant, and thus by necessity ended when the old covenant ended and the new began.

So I hate to spoil your trump card with the revelation that the two love commands appear in the old covenant, but I already knew that.

And there’s no days to be kept in the two love commands - which is why the SDA fights so hard against the fact that the two love commands replaced the old ten, because they want to continue keeping the ended day of rest.

Not my trump card. Just bringing it up. i didn't see it in your posts. (Stuck it in there so others could see it is OT)

As for the two commands fulfilling all of the Law of God-

Who said they didn't ? The 1st four commandments show love to God and the last six show love for your neighbor.

The Law cannot be fulfilled without love.

Those two commands are the heart of the Law.

Thou shalt not steal is a law. We keep it because we can go to jail if we don't. that is the legal sense. But what Jesus is saying is that law is fulfilled when we keep it because we love our neighbors, and wouldn't think to do them harm.

As as for Sabbath, I keep it because i feel convicted to do so. It is my way of proving love to the Lord. That does not take away from you. Do want you want. But I do not believe God would put a ceremonial law in with the 10.

 

[keithr]

All believers in Jesus, both Greek (gentile) and Jew, are in the Jeremiah 31 new covenant.

That's not at all helpful. Where is your Scriptural evidence? If you don't give any then nobody is going to believe you!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

May the Good Lord put cottonballs in your subjects ears!

Well many have become pastors and missionaries and leading myriads to Christ! I am glad they stopped to listen. And many are simply members in particular serving the Lord in the place He called them to.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

No, dispensationalism was not "REBORN" in the 19th century....it was "created" in the early 1800's. If you check out the better commentators prior to the 1800's you will not find the theory of "two distinct people of God" anywhere.

Wrong again, but you will never be convinced. You think covenant replacekent theology is the natural way to lookat Scripture. That is the B*****d child of the RCC.

Of course you won't find any one espousing the physical kingdom where Israel is over the gentiles and Jesus reigns. Teh church was drowned byy the RCC Covenant replacement theology that you fully believe in.

But Jesus taugfht it.
Peter taught it
the Apostles believed in it.

And Paul taught at length on it. but once the foundation layers were gone- in came the wolves.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

If men were mocked because they were promoting the newly devised false doctrine in the 1800's, as you now admit that you do know it to be true, then it is no wonder they were mocked. Those "mockers" as you call them saw it for what it was.

And BTW, I don't mock you, I mock the things you say about "the system" that is undoubtably false and is supposed to be exposed according to scripture. Scripture considers false theories to be "the leven of the Pharisees."

Men were mocked because they believed god at His Word as written that Israel would be restored back to her land in unbelief to be prepared and purged ot receive her Messiah, Just like it says in Ez. , Is. , Jer., Ps. Romans, Matt. Luke. then in 1948, the mockers and scoffers had to come up with all sorts of excuses as to why Israel being back in the land had nothing to do with the Bible!

YOu mockers and scoffers mock at a rebuilt temple, but the tools, clothes, heifers, materials and blueprints are all at hand! This also will come to pass.

Just like when you mockers and scoffers mocked that Israel would never recoup Jerusalem as her capitol city, just as SCripture says, and then came June 1967 and you mockers and scoffers had to come up with all sorts of excuses as to why this was not the bible like 1948 was not the fulfilment of the bible!

Yuo mock and scoff the rapture, you mock and scoff Jwesus establishing a 1,000 year kingdom on earth and Israel ruling with David as Prince. You mock and scoff the temple being used in teh millenial as

How can you say that although "the implication that Israel and Judah are restored, it can't be discerned in the content of the New Covenant" when verse 31 CLEARLY has the Lord's word that the New Covenant includes the restoration of the house of Israel with the House of Judah?

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

HERE'S GODS' NEW COVENANT. I SAY IT IS IMPLIED, YOU SAY IT IS CLEAR. PLEASE POINT OUT WHICH VERSES MAKE IT CLEAR.


EZEKILE 37 MAKES IT CLEAR, BUT JEREMIAH 31 IT IS IMPLIED.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Covenant and Testament mean the same thing - the New Testament is the new covenant, and zhebrews 8,9, and 10 make clear that the New Testament is the last will and Testament of Jesus, and like all wills, took effect with the death of the testator, which is Jesus Christ.[/QUOTE/]

OKAY THEN DETAIL OUT THE FULFILMENT OF TH ECOVENANT AS WRITTEN IN JEREMIAH 31.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

THIS IS THE COMPLETE NEW COVENANT AS GOD GAVE. SHOW HOW ALL THESE ARE NOW FULFILLED.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Well many have become pastors and missionaries and leading myriads to Christ!

Well many have become mislead by myriads of dispensational pastors and missionary who preach the wrong Christ if they believe that Christ has two distinct peoples that are now Darby followers.

 

[Moriah's Song]

YOu mockers and scoffers mock at a rebuilt temple, but the tools, clothes, heifers, materials and blueprints are all at hand! This also will come to pass.

A rebuilt temple? It won't happen. For 2,000 years God has not issued any mandate from any prophet to rebuild a temple to restart the sacrifices. The Jews never built a temple without it. If they do build it it won't be on the exact spot God had all his temples on. Secondly, even if they do build it elsewhere, God will have it destroyed by invading armies just as he has done with all his previous temples.

And about those heifers, they are to be spotless with all red hairs.

Tools? They have no ideas what exact tools were in that temple 2,000 years ago because they were destroyed in 70 AD

Clothes - From the many sketches that I have seen, they have to be exactly as God prescribed and they can't be for certain they have them right because they too were destroyed in 70 AD.

Blueprint? Yeah, they drew up some by guessing.

Bottom line is that the Muslims will kill anyone who tries to remove the Dome of the Rock.

This whole plan of Israel will fall apart because it will be built "by mans will" not God's will.

Just why do you think God will not do the same thing He had done 2,000 years ago this time around? He had it destroyed so that sacrifices could never be reinstated as Jesus said he fulfilled all those sacrificial laws of the OT because they were "shadows of what was to come through Christs shed blood on the cross." Attempting to build another temple will bring the wrath of God down on Jerusalem once again. (IMHO)


BTW, the Jews really are the ones who hate "the goys". We lived in Peabody, MA where they had a temple within 1/4 mile from us as we were in the middle of a very large Jewish community. They "love" our green-back dollars that they patronize us for and for our "guppies" that are in our capitol pushing the Jewish agenda when that money should be being used to stop abortion and the drug cartels from the middle east and from South America.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Yuo mock and scoff the rapture, you mock and scoff Jwesus establishing a 1,000 year kingdom on earth and Israel ruling with David as Prince. You mock and scoff the temple being used in teh millenial as

Exposing heresy is commanded in the scriptures...

"See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ." Col 2:8

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well many have become mislead by myriads of dispensational pastors and missionary who preach the wrong Christ if they believe that Christ has two distinct peoples that are now Darby followers.

So are you sayingf that dispensational preachers are unsaved?

YOu need help! It seems Darby lives in you rhead rent free.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Exposing heresy is commanded in the scriptures...

"See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ." Col 2:8

But yet people reading the bible without commentaries come up with Israel has a new covenant, there is an earthly year kingdom that lasts 1,000 years, there is a rapture, people will live, die and be born on that earthly kingdom, etc.etc.etc.

Are you now implying that like Jehovah's witnesses, people cannot understand the bible without some organizations commentary?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Well many have become mislead by myriads of dispensational pastors and missionary who preach the wrong Christ if they believe that Christ has two distinct peoples that are now Darby followers.

So you think leaving the covenantal replacement theology path is akin to preaching another gospel?

do you believe dispensational believers are actually lost? Seeing how you say we preach another Christ?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Exposing heresy is commanded in the scriptures...

"See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ." Col 2:8

In case you never learned, here are the major distinctions of dispensational understanding:

"A dispensation is a way of ordering things—an administration, a system, or a management. In theology, a dispensation is the divine administration of a period of time; each dispensation is a divinely appointed age. Dispensationalism is a theological system that recognizes these ages ordained by God to order the affairs of the world. Dispensationalism has two primary distinctives: 1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and 2) a view of the uniqueness of Israel as separate from the Church in God’s program. Classical dispensationalism identifies seven dispensations in God’s plan for humanity.

Dispensationalists hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible as the best hermeneutic. The literal interpretation gives each word the meaning it would commonly have in everyday usage. Allowances are made for symbols, figures of speech, and types, of course. It is understood that even symbols and figurative sayings have literal meanings behind them. So, for example, when the Bible speaks of “a thousand years” in Revelation 20, dispensationalists interpret it as a literal period of 1,000 years (the dispensation of the Kingdom), since there is no compelling reason to interpret it otherwise.

There are at least two reasons why literalism is the best way to view Scripture. First, philosophically, the purpose of language itself requires that we interpret words literally. Language was given by God for the purpose of being able to communicate. Words are vessels of meaning. The second reason is biblical. Every prophecy about Jesus Christ in the Old Testament was fulfilled literally. Jesus’ birth, ministry, death, and resurrection all occurred exactly as the Old Testament predicted. The prophecies were literal. There is no non-literal fulfillment of messianic prophecies in the New Testament. This argues strongly for the literal method. If a literal interpretation is not used in studying the Scriptures, there is no objective standard by which to understand the Bible. Each person would be able to interpret the Bible as he saw fit. Biblical interpretation would devolve into “what this passage says to me” instead of “the Bible says.” Sadly, this is already the case in much of what is called Bible study today.

Dispensational theology teaches that there are two distinct peoples of God: Israel and the Church. Dispensationalists believe that salvation has always been by grace through faith alone—in God in the Old Testament and specifically in God the Son in the New Testament. Dispensationalists hold that the Church has not replaced Israel in God’s program and that the Old Testament promises to Israel have not been transferred to the Church. Dispensationalism teaches that the promises God made to Israel in the Old Testament (for land, many descendants, and blessings) will be ultimately fulfilled in the 1000-year period spoken of in Revelation 20. Dispensationalists believe that, just as God is in this age focusing His attention on the Church, He will again in the future focus His attention on Israel (see Romans 9–11 and Daniel 9:24).

Dispensationalists understand the Bible to be organized into seven dispensations: Innocence (Genesis 1:1—3:7), Conscience (Genesis 3:8—8:22), Human Government (Genesis 9:1—11:32), Promise (Genesis 12:1—Exodus 19:25), Law (Exodus 20:1—Acts 2:4), Grace (Acts 2:4—Revelation 20:3), and the Millennial Kingdom (Revelation 20:4–6). Again, these dispensations are not paths to salvation, but manners in which God relates to man. Each dispensation includes a recognizable pattern of how God worked with people living in the dispensation. That pattern is 1) a responsibility, 2) a failure, 3) a judgment, and 4) grace to move on."


IT IS A PUZZLE TO SEE HO WMANY PEOPLE THINK THAT TAKING THE BIBLE AS IT IS WRITTEN IS SUCH A DANGEROUS THING!

JW'S
MORMONS
RCC
COVENTAL REPLACEMENT BELIEVERS

 

[Moriah's Song]

So are you sayingf that dispensational preachers are unsaved?

That's not my job! Our job is to expose heresies such as dispensationalism. That whole false system cannot be found in scripture at all. Where is your verse for a new temple? Where is your verse that says sacrifices will be reinstated in that bogus temple that you want built? Where in scripture does it say that Jesus will return to a sin-cursed earth and sit on a literal David's throne for a thousand years?

 

[Moriah's Song]

"A dispensation is a way of ordering things—an administration, a system, or a management. In theology, a dispensation is the divine administration of a period of time; each dispensation is a divinely appointed age. Dispensationalism is a theological system that recognizes these ages ordained by God to order the affairs of the world. Dispensationalism has two primary distinctives: 1) a consistently literal interpretation of Scripture, especially Bible prophecy, and 2) a view of the uniqueness of Israel as separate from the Church in God’s program. Classical dispensationalism identifies seven dispensations in God’s plan for humanity.

these are not your thoughts. They came from GotQuestions.org and that is precisely why so many people are indoctrinated into dispensationalism. They are well-know promoters of the system through the Dallas Theo. siminary which Walvrood was a president of at one time. They also have multiple websites that spew that theory through books and other seminaries. The system is like 'the abortion' issue; it's been around so long now that people believe it is ok to kill an infant that is born with a defect or even if it is not the boy they wanted.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Exposing heresy is commanded in the scriptures...

"See to it that no one makes a prey of you by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the universe, and not according to Christ." Col 2:8

COVENANT THEOLOGY

Covenant Theology isn’t so much a “theology” in the sense of a systematic set of doctrine as it is a framework for interpreting Scripture. It is usually contrasted with another interpretative framework for Scripture called “Dispensational Theology” or “Dispensationalism.” Dispensationalism is currently the most popular scriptural interpretative method in American evangelicalism, and has been so from the latter half of the 19th century. Covenant Theology, however, remains the majority report for Protestantism since the time of the Reformation, and it is the system favored by those of a more Reformed or Calvinistic persuasion.

Where Dispensationalism sees the Scriptures unfolding in a series of (typically) seven “dispensations” (a dispensation can be defined as the particular means God uses to deal with man and creation during a given period in redemptive history), Covenant Theology looks at the Scriptures through the grid of the covenant. Covenant Theology defines two overriding covenants: the covenant of works (CW) and the covenant of grace (CG). A third covenant is sometimes mentioned; namely, the covenant of redemption (CR). We will discuss these covenants in turn. The important thing to keep in mind is that all of the various covenants described in Scripture (e.g., the covenants made with Noah, Abraham, Moses, David and the New Covenant) are outworkings of either the covenant of works or the covenant of grace.

In conclusion, Covenant Theology views the covenants of Scripture as manifestations of either the CW or the CG. The entire story of redemptive history can be seen as God unfolding the CG from its nascent stages (Genesis 3:15) through to its fruition in Christ. Covenant Theology is, therefore, a very Christocentric way of looking at Scripture because it sees the OT as the promise of Christ and the NT as the fulfillment in Christ. Some have accused Covenant Theology as teaching what is called “Replacement Theology” (i.e., the Church replaces Israel). This couldn’t be further from the truth. Unlike Dispensationalism, Covenant Theology does not see a sharp distinction between Israel and the Church. Israel constituted the people of God in the OT, and the Church (which is made up of Jew and Gentile) constitutes the people of God in the NT; both just make up one people of God (Ephesians 2:11-20). The Church doesn’t replace Israel; the Church is Israel and Israel is the Church (Galatians 6:16). All people who exercise the same faith as Abraham are part of the covenant people of God (Galatians 3:25-29).


Today there are approximately 100 million American church members who have very little to no understanding of Bible prophecy. These church members are from replacement theology churches that don’t teach Bible prophecy and who look at prophetic scriptures as allegorical and not literal. Consequently, they do not understand the importance of Israel to the God of Israel or God’s redemptive plan for Israel and the nations. (To Read “The Error of Replacement Theology” – By Clarence H. Wagner Jr. click here.)

These church members also have no understanding of the biblical significance of what is transpiring today in Israel, Russia, China, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Turkey, and in other Middle East nations. They are also not aware of the significance of the formation of the European Union, new ID technologies and much more.

Largest churches in N.A. those with a * are covenant/replacement theology churches to a large or full degree.

*1. The Roman Catholic Church – 66,407,105
2. Southern Baptist Convention – 16, 427, 736
*3. The United Methodist Church – 8,251,042
*4. The Church of God in Christ – 5,499,875
*5. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints – 5,410,544
*6. Evangelical Lutheran Church in America – 5,038,006
*7. National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc. – 5,000,000
8. National Baptist Convention of America, Inc. – 3,500,000
*9. Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) – 3,407,329
10. Assemblies of God – 2,687,366
*11. The Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod – 2,512,714
*12. African Methodist Episcopal Church – 2,500,000
13. National Missionary Baptist Convention of America – 2,500,000
*14. Progressive National Baptist Convention Inc. – 2,500,000
*15. The Episcopal Church – 2,333,628
*16. Churches of Christ, Corsicana, Texas – 1,500,000
*17. Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America – 1,500,000
18. Pentecostal Assemblies of the World, Inc. – 1,500,000
*19. American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. – 1,484,291
*20. African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church – 1,430,795
*21. United Church of Christ – 1,330,985
22. Baptist Bible Fellowship International – 1,200,000
*23. Christian Churches and Churches of Christ, Joplin, Mo. – 1,071,616
*24. Jehovah’s Witnesses – 1,022,397
*25. Church of God, Cleveland, Tenn., – 944,857

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's not my job! Our job is to expose heresies such as dispensationalism. That whole false system cannot be found in scripture at all. Where is your verse for a new temple? Where is your verse that says sacrifices will be reinstated in that bogus temple that you want built? Where in scripture does it say that Jesus will return to a sin-cursed earth and sit on a literal David's throne?

It can if you just take Gods Word as His Word and not reinterpret it according to replacement theology philosophy.

Once again Covenant and dispensation theologies are man made constructs to describe how God dealt with man.

Covenant looks at 2 or at most 3 time frames based on 2 covenants.

And if it is not you rjob- maybe you should to learn to control your tongue. You are judged by your words and to say that I preach another Christ is to biblically say I am unsaved! But then again as an allegorist you may think it means something else.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

these are not your thoughts. They came from GotQuestions.org and that is precisely why so many people are indoctrinated into dispensationalism. They are well-know promoters of the system through the Dallas Theo. siminary which Walvrood was a president of at one time. They also have multiple websites that spew that theory through books and other seminaries. The system is like 'the abortion' issue; it's been around so long now that people believe it is ok to kill an infant that is born with a defect or even if it is not the boy they wanted.

Well at least you recognized my insertion of quotation marks as literal. But maybe I di dnot include them as literal.

But let me ask you this, why are you taking their words literal as written and not looking for some other meaning to them?

I di d not even know they are associated with Dallas Theological.

So then show why you are convinced that literalism is the wrong way to understand the bible.

Secondly as you think that the way God treated Adam is the same as the church- explain why looking at the unique ways God governed man over time is so hellishly wrong that you accuse me of preaching another Jesus!

We will proceed once you answer these two points.

 

[Moriah's Song]

I di d not even know they are associated with Dallas Theological.

Almost all of those commentators on their website came from Dallas T.S.

 

[Moriah's Song]

So then show why you are convinced that literalism is the wrong way to understand the bible.

Jhn 10:7...When Jesus said of Himelf...."Truly, truly, I say to you, I am the door of the sheep" do you take that literally? I don't. He’s not made of wood
Jhn 15:5...When Jesus said...."I am the vine; you are the branches" do you believe we're sprouting leaves?

When literal makes no sense....

Mat 5:30...And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.

Mat 18:8...And if your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to enter life maimed or lame than with two hands or two feet to be thrown into the eternal fire.​