Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Moriah's Song]

Don't you tire of being a liar??????? I have read and even taught Ephesians for decades now.

May the Good Lord put cottonballs in your subjects ears!

 

[theefaith]

Precious friend, It Certainly Was God, Who:

Created two separate people -

Prophecy/Law
national [earthly] Israel (previously)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

MYSTERY/GRACE
BUT NOW, "blindness in part is happened to Israel" (Rom_11:25)

So, God, In CHRIST, Created "the ONE NEW man!" (Eph_2:15):

The [Heavenly] Body of Christ (NOW!) and, Upon The Great GRACE
Departure Of God's Organism, TO It's Home, In Heaven, Only THEN...

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:

...Will God Resume HIS Prophetic Program, in The Time Of JACOB's Trouble
national Israel (later)
------------------------
Let God's Word Of Truth, studied, Rightly Divided,
PREVAIL during these perilous times, With Much More:

God's Approval/TWO Gospels In Prophecy vs Mystery
"Distinctions" of Prophecy vs MYSTERY

so there are two valid covenants or one?

 

[Moriah's Song]

"blindness in part is happened to Israel" (Rom_11:25)

Out of 7 short words, how is it that people cannot see that word that is at the center of it....."PART." Since when does "PART" mean ALL?
- PART....In verse 1 of chapter 11, Paul writes..."I ask, then, has God rejected his people? By no means! I am of the tribe of Benjamin....
- PART/NOT ALL/REMNANT....Verse 5, So too at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace.
- PART/NOT ALL/REMNANT/ELECT....Verse 7, What then? Israel failed to obtain what it sought. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,
- PART/NOT ALL/REMNANT/ELECT/SAVE SOME...Verse 14, I magnify my ministry in order to save some of them.
- PART/NOT ALL/REMNANT/ELECT/SAVE SOME/OTHERS GRAFTED IN...Verse 23, And even the others, if they do not persist in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

Verse 25-26: A hardening has come upon PART OF ISRAEL, until the full number of the Gentiles come in, and then all Israel will be saved."​

God does not shut the door on anyone that believes in Him!!! He never has and never will.! People, Jews and Gentiles, shut their own doors - not God!

 

[Moriah's Song]

Precious friend, It Certainly Was God, Who:

Created two separate people -

Not so. The two people (Jews and the Gentile church) theory originated in England and Scotland in the 1800's by the name of John Nelson Darby. He then brought his "theory" to the USA first along the east coast through "revival" meetings and traveling proponents of the new "two system" people of God. This heretical system that has infiltrated the church today is from "a man's idea" --- most certainly not God ordained as the system completely stands in opposition to God's Word.

 

[Moriah's Song]

And actually dispensationalism was reborn in the 19th century

No, dispensationalism was not "REBORN" in the 19th century....it was "created" in the early 1800's. If you check out the better commentators prior to the 1800's you will not find the theory of "two distinct people of God" anywhere.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Men of God were mocked in the 1800's when they taught that Israel would be restored to the land of Israel. Driven out of churches and slandered...

If men were mocked because they were promoting the newly devised false doctrine in the 1800's, as you now admit that you do know it to be true, then it is no wonder they were mocked. Those "mockers" as you call them saw it for what it was.

And BTW, I don't mock you, I mock the things you say about "the system" that is undoubtably false and is supposed to be exposed according to scripture. Scripture considers false theories to be "the leven of the Pharisees."

 

[Moriah's Song]

while there is an implication that Israel and Judah are restored, it can't be discerned in the content of the New Covenant:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

How can you say that although "the implication that Israel and Judah are restored, it can't be discerned in the content of the New Covenant" when verse 31 CLEARLY has the Lord's word that the New Covenant includes the restoration of the house of Israel with the House of Judah?

 

[Curtis]

No, not quite accurate here.

Yes, it’s quite accurat, to whit:

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Mat 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Joh 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

Jesus originally came only for Israel.

Their rejection of Him opened the way of salvation to the gentiles, to make Israel jealous:

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

 

[Moriah's Song]

Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

You quoted the verse accurately but your understanding of the verses together don't agree with the "intent" of WHY Jesus did not want them to go to the Gentiles at that time. Their time for reaching out to the Gentiles would not come until after he had given them the "Great Commission." The Jews had been promised that they would receive the blessing of being the first to spread the gospel of salvation to the world at large - but the Jews had first rights to be known forever that they were the "result" of what we are today - the church of Christ composed of both Jews and Gentiles....not two different peoples!

 

[Curtis]

Christians sometimes ask “Do the 10 commandments apply to us, or were they just for the Israelites?” The answer is no they do not apply to us, and yes they do!

A summary of the Sinaitic Law is “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind; and thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself” (Matthew 22:37-40). Jesus kept, and fulfilled, the Law Covenant by his death. By willingly sacrificing himself so that he should become man’s redeemer (which only he could do as he was the only perfect man since Adam), he was fulfilling the Law which declares that all under it must love God more than they love themselves, and that therefore they would so delight to do God’s will that they would gladly sacrifice their own will, and even their own life. It is declared that Jesus gave up his life joyfully – “I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart” (Psalms 40:8).

Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” (Matthew 5:17). The old Sinaitic Law Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus, and is therefore no more in effect. The Apostle Paul said, “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away” (Hebrew 8:13). Paul also said “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster” (Galations 4:24-25).

The New Covenant, or Testament, has not yet gone into effect, so far as the world is concerned. The Law associated with the New Covenant will be the same unchanging Law of God, which declares divine opposition to sin, and divine favour and blessing for the righteous. This Law will be in effect during the Millennial age, when allowances will be made for mankind’s imperfections as they are gradually restored to human perfection. Thus it is written “This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: … and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more” (Hebrews 8:10-12; Jeremiah 31:33-34). (This will be part of the “restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began” - Acts 3:21). The New Covenant is a covenant of forgiveness, blessing and restitution.

So the Law Covenant has been fulfilled and cancelled by Jesus and the New Covenant will be in operation during the Millennial age, but what of the interim? Is there any covenant in operation, and is there any law connected with it?

During the interim Gospel age God is selecting the members of the New Creation (the body of Christ), and a covenant is now in force, and it has a law. The Apostle Paul tells us that the Law “was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made” (Galatians 3:19). Therefore the Law Covenant given at Sinai was an addition to a previous covenant, and looking back we see that the Abrahamic Covenant was the original one, and that it had stood for 430 years before the Law Covenant was added - “the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect” (Galatians 3:17).

Therefore we see that when our Lord Jesus fulfilled the Law Covenant it left the original Abrahamic Covenant, just as it was before the Law was added, and this is the covenant under which the New Creation is being developed. The Abrahamic promise or Covenant was that “in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 28:14). The Apostle explained that this seed refers to Christ - “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ” (Galatians 3:16), and added, “And if ye be Christ's, [if you become members in particular of the body of Christ] then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:29).

Thus Christians are not under the Sinai or Law Covenant, so what law are we under? The Apostle said “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14). However, this does not mean that we can willingly disobey the Sinaitic Law. When we became Christians we repented of our sinful ways, meaning we regretted them and changed direction, turning away from them (Strong’s concordance describes ‘repent’ as meaning “to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins”). Therefore, having turned away from our sinful ways, we should be trying to not sin, and as disobeying the Law covenant would be a sin we should be trying to obey the Law Covenant, even if we are no longer condemned under it if we fail to keep it completely.

When we consecrated our lives to God, we declared our love for God and his righteousness, and we became bound by the Law of Love. Our hope according to God’s promises is to become adopted sons of God (“he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will”, Ephesians 1:5, NIV), which means that we need to develop God likeness, and God is love. “He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love” (1 John 4:8).

Jesus said, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matthew 22:37-40). He also said “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15), and “the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me” (John 14:24). So if we love God and Jesus we should try to obey God’s commandments and laws. “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous” (1 John 5:3).

Therefore, having been redeemed from condemnation due to sin, we should now be continually striving to live according to God’s righteous laws (even though we may not be able to succeed completely while still living in our imperfect human bodies). As the Apostle Paul said, “What then? Are we to sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? Of course not!” “We died to sin: how can we live in it any longer?” “We know that our old humanity has been crucified with Christ, for the destruction of the sinful self, so that we may no longer be slaves to sin, because death cancels the claims of sin. But if we thus died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him, knowing as we do that Christ, once raised from the dead, is never to die again: he is no longer under the dominion of death. When he died, he died to sin, once for all, and now that he lives, he lives to God. In the same way you must regard yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God, in union with Christ Jesus. Therefore sin must no longer reign in your mortal body, exacting obedience to the body’s desires. You must no longer put any part of it at sin’s disposal, as an implement for doing wrong. Put yourselves instead at the disposal of God; think of yourselves as raised from death to life, and yield your bodies to God as implements for doing right.” “When you were slaves of sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. And what gain did that bring you? Things that now make you ashamed, for their end is death. But now, freed from the commands of sin and bound to the service of God, you have gains that lead to holiness, and the end is eternal life. For sin pays a wage, and the wage is death, but God gives freely, and his gift is eternal life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:15,2,6-13,20-23 - REB).

Some people do not understand this and they quote 1 John 3:9 in order to accuse others of not being true Christians – “Whosoever is born [begotten] of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born [begotten] of God”. They think this means that if you commit just one sin, then you cannot be a true Christian, failing to understand that no Christian is completely righteous (Romans 3:10, Psalms 14:2-3) or perfect, and will not be until their resurrection. In the meantime we struggle to be overcomers of the temptations of the flesh, and the world, and Satan, and though we sometimes fail we must never give up trying, nor give up the desire to be righteous. Though we cannot yet be perfect in our thoughts, words and actions, we can have a desire to be perfect. “But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me” (Romans 7:20 - MKJV).

The ten commands, called the ministry of death and condemnation and the letter which kills, given to Moses on the mountain - which has ended per 2 Corinthians 3, have been superseded by the superior two love commands.

 

[Curtis]

Yes, Jesus has shed his blood for the remission of sins, but that doesn't mean that all mankind is under the New Covenant - it means that mankind's sins can now be forgiven - in due time.

All believers in Jesus, both Greek (gentile) and Jew, are in the Jeremiah 31 new covenant.

 

[Curtis]

You quoted the verse accurately but your understanding of the verses together don't agree with the "intent" of WHY Jesus did not want them to go to the Gentiles at that time. Their time for reaching out to the Gentiles would not come until after he had given them the "Great Commission." The Jews had been promised that they would receive the blessing of being the first to spread the gospel of salvation to the world at large - but the Jews had first rights to be known forever that they were the "result" of what we are today - the church of Christ composed of both Jews and Gentiles....not two different peoples!

Romans 11 which I cited, explains why salvation came to gentiles- to make Israel jealous.

The promised Jeremiah 31 new covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah, was brought to the chosen, elect nation of Israel by their Jewish Messiah, Y'eshua.

There’s no church or gentile covenant- they are grafted in to the new covenant by faith, as wild Olive branches grafted in with the natural branches of Israel.

The gospel of the kingdom was first offered to the Jews, then to the gentiles - to the gentiles to make the elect nation of Israel jealous.

Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Paul knew the gospel had to go to the Jews, and that their rejection of their own messiah is why salvation came to gentiles:

Act 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

 

[Moriah's Song]

The gospel of the kingdom was first offered to the Jews, then to the gentiles

The typical mantra of the dispensationalist is that "Jesus came to the Jews and "offered the kingdom to them" but they refused and were "set aside" until the full number of Gentiles came in....but Ephesians 2 blows that false theory apart because Paul clearly indicates that the Jews and the Gentiles are "ONE BODY" in Christ. Now if they are "ONE BODY IN CHRIST" does not Paul contradict two separate groups of people?

 

[Enoch111]

The typical mantra of the dispensationalist is that "Jesus came to the Jews and "offered the kingdom to them" but they refused and were "set aside" until the full number of Gentiles came in....but Ephesians 2 blows that false theory apart because Paul clearly indicates that the Jews and the Gentiles are "ONE BODY" in Christ.

You are simply making a mishmash out of different Scriptures.

1. Did Jesus come to Israel preaching the nearness of the Kingdom of God? Absolutely. See Matthew 4. The King was in the midst of Israel, therefore the Kingdom was right there. And when Jesus entered Jerusalem riding on a donkey, everyone understood that the King of the Jews was presenting Himself to Israel.

2. Did Paul say that God would resume His direct dealings with the Jews after "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in? Absolutely. See the rest of Romans 11.

3. Was Paul talking about the Church (Jew and Gentile in one Body) in Ephesians? Absolutely. See the first two chapters.

Which means that your attack on Dispensationalism is simply a ploy to cover up your poor understanding of Scripture. The New Testament distinguishes between (a) Israel, (b) the Church, and (c) the Gentiles. "Give none offence, (a) neither to the Jews, (b) nor to the Gentiles, (c) nor to the church of God" (1 Cor 10:32)

People love to beat up on Dispensationalists and Dispensationalism because they simply DO NOT UNDERSTAND the Bible.

 

[Cassandra]

The ten commands, called the ministry of death and condemnation and the letter which kills, given to Moses on the mountain - which has ended per 2 Corinthians 3, have been superseded by the superior two love commands.

Those two love commands were given in the Old Testament:
Deut 6:5 "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Lev 19:17"
17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

 

[Curtis]

Show one time Jesus said He was fulfilling the new covenant. show me verse by verse:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Covenant and Testament mean the same thing - the New Testament is the new covenant, and zhebrews 8,9, and 10 make clear that the New Testament is the last will and Testament of Jesus, and like all wills, took effect with the death of the testator, which is Jesus Christ.

The new covenant and salvation by faith are the fulfillment of the Jeremiah 31 new covenant with the houses of Israel and Judah, since when born again, the Holy Spirit indwells us, and thus Gods law is written in our hearts, and the spiritual circumcision of the heart, also occurs.

Currently only a remnant of Jews are in the new covenant by faith that Jesus is their messiah, and along with that remnant is believing gentiles who are grafted in as a wild Olive Branch, amid the natural branches of Israel.

 

[Curtis]

Those two love commands were given in the Old Testament:
Deut 6:5 "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Lev 19:17"
17 “You shall not hate your brother in your heart, but you shall reason frankly with your neighbor, lest you incur sin because of him. 18 You shall not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the sons of your own people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

So? They are given separate from the ten commands, and were never called the covenant on two tables of stone, as the Decalogue was.

The two love commands were the true essence of Gods law, not the Decalogue, which was the letter that kills and brought death and condemnation to men, per 2 Corinthians 3.

Thus the two love commands which Jesus and Paul said fulfills ALL THE LAW of God, have superseded and replaced the Decalogue, which once again WAS the old covenant, and thus by necessity ended when the old covenant ended and the new began.

So I hate to spoil your trump card with the revelation that the two love commands appear in the old covenant, but I already knew that.

And there’s no days to be kept in the two love commands - which is why the SDA fights so hard against the fact that the two love commands replaced the old ten, because they want to continue keeping the ended day of rest.

 

[Moriah's Song]

He will reign in Jerusalem on David’s throne, forever, as prophesied in both the old and new testaments.

Gentiles and jews who are the redeemed, will be in the kingdom with Jesus.

Would you please clarify this for me?
~ When you say "He will reign in Jerusalem" do you mean the Jerusalem on earth in the middle east presently or the "New Jerusalem" that comes after the end and all unbelievers are in hell for eternity?
~ When you say that Jesus will reign on David's throne forever, I assume you are speaking about the Davidic line that was fulfilled in the NT, correct?

 

[keithr]

the Freemasons created the red menace of communism!

the Jews created the Freemasons!

Do you have any evidence to support your antisemitic statements?

 

[Moriah's Song]

Currently only a remnant of Jews are in the new covenant by faith that Jesus is their messiah, and along with that remnant is believing gentiles who are grafted in

You say that "currently only a remant are in the NC.."

So do you believe all the citizens of national Israel will all be saved by Jesus in the future? If so when does this happen and how does it happen?