Christians are not under the New Covenant
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Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Well yes, He had finished paying the full price for our sins. But He did not say that over the fourth cup.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Yes he did
Jn 19
28 After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
29 Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a spunge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth.
30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
completing the ot Passover and changing it into the NT Passover sacrifice
1 cor 5:7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
The only reason for this kind of talk is because dispensationalism falsely created two separate people - the body of Christ (now) and national Israel (later) but scripture refutes the above big time. Let God's Word prevail during these perious times.
Heb 7:25...Consequently he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through [Jesus], since he always lives to make intercession for them.
Rom 8:34..."who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God who indeed intercedes for us?
1Ti 2:5...For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Jo 2:1...My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
Eph 3:11-12..."This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him."
Gal 3:19-20... Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one.
Folks, don't be fooled by this kind of heresy. The book of Ephesians and 1 Cor 12:12-13 clearly shows that there are no separations between Christian believers and Jewish believers. These people do not want to read the book of Ephesians or else they would have to have a bonfire type book burning party in order to get rid of that crap that has been splattered all over our country by false teachers like this that began back in the 1800's.Rom 8:34..."who is to condemn? Is it Christ Jesus, who died, yes, who was raised from the dead, who is at the right hand of God who indeed intercedes for us?
1Ti 2:5...For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
1Jo 2:1...My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;
Eph 3:11-12..."This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have boldness and confidence of access through our faith in him."
Gal 3:19-20... Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made; and it was ordained by angels through an intermediary. Now an intermediary implies more than one; but God is one.
1 Cor 12:12-13..."For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many are one body, so it is with Christ. For by one spirit we were all baptized into one body -- Jews or Greeks, slaves or free --- and all were made to drink of one Spirit.
Notice in their post how they consitently just throw out diversionary tactics, post false strawman arguments and insults rather than take God's Word as it was written in 1 Cor 12:12-13 above.
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Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Jesus said that all OT would be filled by him. Jeremiah is no exception.
Luk 18:31 - And taking the twelve, he said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written of the Son of man by the prophets will be accomplished.
Jhn 12:16 - His disciples did not understand this at first; but when Jesus was glorified, then they remembered that this had been written of him and had been done to him.
Luk 24:44 - Then he said to them, "These are my words which I spoke to you, while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the law of Moses and the prophets and the psalms must be fulfilled."
Mat 5:17 - "Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Luk 21:22 - for these are days of vengeance, to fulfil all that is written.
Luk 22:37 - For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, 'And he was reckoned with transgressors'; for what is written about me has its fulfilment."
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
Moriah said: PAUL taught the NEW COVENANT in 2 CORINTHIANS 3:7-11 (post #539)
The correct verse should have been 2 Corinthians 3: "...who made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the spirite; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives live."
The correct verse should have been 2 Corinthians 3: "...who made us competent to be ministers of a new covenant, not in a written code but in the spirite; for the written code kills, but the Spirit gives live."
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
In one sense it is and in one sense it is not --- depending on what one believes is "the true Israel" or "ethnic/national Israel" of the Middle East or of "spiritual Israel" of the "church" composed of both the Jewish remnant and the belieing Gentiles.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
-When Jesus said that "salvation is of the Jews" He was saying that "the gospel of eternal salvation was to go forth from the Jewish nation" and it did at Pentecost.
- Where it says that "[Jesus] is the Jewish Messiah" that is true.
- And where Jesus said "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel," he fulfilled that OT Jeremiah prophecy.
Moriah's Song
Well-Known Member
No, not quite accurate here.
If you read the book of John, you will see where Jesus actually began his tours of the middle east, and he began those tours going from Galilee to Jerusalem. From Jerusalem he went directly to Samaria. He was indicating by his actions that the Jews of Judah and the Samritan half-breeds were going to become one nation which also was a "hint" at the 2 sticks prophecy of Ezekiel. Tying those two into one stick was a metaphor for what came to be the repeated words of Paul in Ephesians (especially chapter 2). That book cannot be avoided unless one intentionally chooses to call the apostle Paul a heretic and a liar of which I don't think Christ would tolerate Paul's writings at all nor would Jesus have even appeared to him since Jesus could read the hearts of all mankind.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Okay now show the new covenant as declared by God and show how Paul if fulfilling it.
Now Jesus is Israel and Judah? , but you said the church is Israel and you have not yet revealed who Judah is.
Also can you show me where Jesus fulfilled Ezekiel 38-39 by HIm?
But if you understood what Jesus said, you would realized He fulfilled all OT prophecies concerning Messiah, and not all OT prophecies in general.
No the only reason for this kind of talk is what a mediator does! OT Israel is not nor ever will be part of the body of Christ! but to give you a biggger heqadasche for your allegorical mind, the bible speaks of 4 and not 2 people of God!
1. All OT saints prior to the law.
2. Israel who is an eternally covenanted people. The wife3 of Jehovah-now divorced and to be rewed.
3. Teh church which is the espoused to jesus.
4. Tribulation Saints (my term) all those who get saved after the church is snatched away as Scripture says.
Don't you tire of being a liar??????? I have read and even taught Ephesians for decades now.
Now let me tell you a little secret. I was a rough hewn dispensationalist and five point calvinist long before I even knew these theologies existed. I Got saved and spent almost 18 months doing nothing but reading Scripture, before I found my first christian book Store. People told me that I believed this or that and I didn't even know what they were talking about!
Covenantal replacement theology such as you hold does not come from a basic literal reading of the Word of God. It requires reinterpreting plain to understand words. And the facxt you have to consistently have to hurl ad-hominems at things you do not understand and slander other Christians shows that your attitude is not from above but below!
I don't care a whit if one is a covenantal replacement theology holder or a dispensationalist if they seek to know th eLord. I studied in depth both theologies with many of their iterations from different "scholars" of both schools. and after years of studsies I saw wigh the greatest of confidence that dispensationjalism does far less harm to Scripture than your covenantal theology does. Both are imperfect, for they both are systems of studies created by men, but dispensationalism with its foundation of a literal/historical/grammatical understanding of Scripture requires less wiggling and reinterpretation than covenantal theology does.
Darby had a lot of wrong assumptions. But then again as dispensational thought (though it was not called that in the first century, it was simply called the Word of God), had been buried by the RCC for over a millenia and the early reformers wer mostly covenantl at first, it is no wonder it took time for it to see the light of day again. teaching on Israel and the end times were not as critical as understanding eternal security, idolatry and th emany other doctrines the reformers were ble to break th e hold they had on believers.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
No he did not. the fourth cup was drank and then they went to the garden of gethsemane! sorry but all the symbolizing of the Scriptures cannot change what took place.
I Agree that Jesus became the real of the type and shadow of the OT passover lamb! but maybe you should do a study of the Passover Seder and see how many things Jesus fulfilled by His death and rEsurrection that were served at the Seder!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
- Matthew 6:22
The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations - Matthew 6:23
But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Are you a Freemason? Or communist?
the Freemasons created the red menace of communism!
the Jews created the Freemasons!
the Freemasons created the red menace of communism!
the Jews created the Freemasons!
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
Once again show me how they are fulfiling as ministers , the New covenant as written and declared by God in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
ALL OLD TESTAMENT MOSAIC COVENANT IS FULFILLED BY AND IN CHRIST! PERIOD!
IN HIS BLOOD!
Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Hebrews 9:12
Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Precious friend, It Certainly Was God, Who:
Created two separate people -
Prophecy/Law
national [earthly] Israel (previously)
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
MYSTERY/GRACE
BUT NOW, "blindness in part is happened to Israel" (Rom_11:25)
So, God, In CHRIST, Created "the ONE NEW man!" (Eph_2:15):
The [Heavenly] Body of Christ (NOW!) and, Upon The Great GRACE
Departure Of God's Organism, TO It's Home, In Heaven, Only THEN...
Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15) From “Things That DIFFER!” {online}:
...Will God Resume HIS Prophetic Program, in The Time Of JACOB's Trouble
national Israel (later)
------------------------
Let God's Word Of Truth, studied, Rightly Divided,
PREVAIL during these perilous times, With Much More:
God's Approval/TWO Gospels In Prophecy vs Mystery
"Distinctions" of Prophecy vs MYSTERY
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