Christians are not under the New Covenant

[Harvest 1874]

Christians sometimes ask “Do the 10 commandments apply to us, or were they just for the Israelites?” The answer is no they do not apply to us, and yes they do!

A summary of the Sinaitic Law is “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind; and thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself” (Matthew 22:37-40). Jesus kept, and fulfilled, the Law Covenant by his death. By willingly sacrificing himself so that he should become man’s redeemer (which only he could do as he was the only perfect man since Adam), he was fulfilling the Law which declares that all under it must love God more than they love themselves, and that therefore they would so delight to do God’s will that they would gladly sacrifice their own will, and even their own life. It is declared that Jesus gave up his life joyfully – “I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart” (Psalms 40:8).

Jesus said, “Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil” (Matthew 5:17). The old Sinaitic Law Covenant was fulfilled by Jesus, and is therefore no more in effect. The Apostle Paul said, “In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away” (Hebrew 8:13). Paul also said “Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster” (Galations 4:24-25).

The New Covenant, or Testament, has not yet gone into effect, so far as the world is concerned. The Law associated with the New Covenant will be the same unchanging Law of God, which declares divine opposition to sin, and divine favour and blessing for the righteous. This Law will be in effect during the Millennial age, when allowances will be made for mankind’s imperfections as they are gradually restored to human perfection. Thus it is written “This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: … and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more” (Hebrews 8:10-12; Jeremiah 31:33-34). (This will be part of the “restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began” - Acts 3:21). The New Covenant is a covenant of forgiveness, blessing and restitution.

So the Law Covenant has been fulfilled and cancelled by Jesus and the New Covenant will be in operation during the Millennial age, but what of the interim? Is there any covenant in operation, and is there any law connected with it?

During the interim Gospel age God is selecting the members of the New Creation (the body of Christ), and a covenant is now in force, and it has a law. The Apostle Paul tells us that the Law “was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made” (Galatians 3:19). Therefore the Law Covenant given at Sinai was an addition to a previous covenant, and looking back we see that the Abrahamic Covenant was the original one, and that it had stood for 430 years before the Law Covenant was added - “the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect” (Galatians 3:17).

Therefore we see that when our Lord Jesus fulfilled the Law Covenant it left the original Abrahamic Covenant, just as it was before the Law was added, and this is the covenant under which the New Creation is being developed. The Abrahamic promise or Covenant was that “in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed” (Genesis 28:14). The Apostle explained that this seed refers to Christ - “Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ” (Galatians 3:16), and added, “And if ye be Christ's, [if you become members in particular of the body of Christ] then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Galatians 3:29).

Thus Christians are not under the Sinai or Law Covenant, so what law are we under? The Apostle said “For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace” (Romans 6:14). However, this does not mean that we can willingly disobey the Sinaitic Law. When we became Christians we repented of our sinful ways, meaning we regretted them and changed direction, turning away from them (Strong’s concordance describes ‘repent’ as meaning “to change one's mind for better, heartily to amend with abhorrence of one's past sins”). Therefore, having turned away from our sinful ways, we should be trying to not sin, and as disobeying the Law covenant would be a sin we should be trying to obey the Law Covenant, even if we are no longer condemned under it if we fail to keep it completely.

When we consecrated our lives to God, we declared our love for God and his righteousness, and we became bound by the Law of Love. Our hope according to God’s promises is to become adopted sons of God (“he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will”, Ephesians 1:5, NIV), which means that we need to develop God likeness, and God is love. “He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love” (1 John 4:8).

Jesus said, “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets” (Matthew 22:37-40). He also said “If ye love me, keep my commandments” (John 14:15), and “the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me” (John 14:24). So if we love God and Jesus we should try to obey God’s commandments and laws. “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous” (1 John 5:3).

Therefore, having been redeemed from condemnation due to sin, we should now be continually striving to live according to God’s righteous laws (even though we may not be able to succeed completely while still living in our imperfect human bodies). As the Apostle Paul said, “What then? Are we to sin, because we are not under the law but under grace? Of course not!” “We died to sin: how can we live in it any longer?” “We know that our old humanity has been crucified with Christ, for the destruction of the sinful self, so that we may no longer be slaves to sin, because death cancels the claims of sin. But if we thus died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him, knowing as we do that Christ, once raised from the dead, is never to die again: he is no longer under the dominion of death. When he died, he died to sin, once for all, and now that he lives, he lives to God. In the same way you must regard yourselves as dead to sin and alive to God, in union with Christ Jesus. Therefore sin must no longer reign in your mortal body, exacting obedience to the body’s desires. You must no longer put any part of it at sin’s disposal, as an implement for doing wrong. Put yourselves instead at the disposal of God; think of yourselves as raised from death to life, and yield your bodies to God as implements for doing right.” “When you were slaves of sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. And what gain did that bring you? Things that now make you ashamed, for their end is death. But now, freed from the commands of sin and bound to the service of God, you have gains that lead to holiness, and the end is eternal life. For sin pays a wage, and the wage is death, but God gives freely, and his gift is eternal life in union with Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:15,2,6-13,20-23 - REB).

Some people do not understand this and they quote 1 John 3:9 in order to accuse others of not being true Christians – “Whosoever is born [begotten] of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born [begotten] of God”. They think this means that if you commit just one sin, then you cannot be a true Christian, failing to understand that no Christian is completely righteous (Romans 3:10, Psalms 14:2-3) or perfect, and will not be until their resurrection. In the meantime we struggle to be overcomers of the temptations of the flesh, and the world, and Satan, and though we sometimes fail we must never give up trying, nor give up the desire to be righteous. Though we cannot yet be perfect in our thoughts, words and actions, we can have a desire to be perfect. “But if I do what I do not desire, it is no more I working it out, but sin dwelling in me” (Romans 7:20 - MKJV).

We agree with all that is said, and would advise those who believe the New Covenant is presently in effect and applies to Christians to see our blog post entitled, "The Mediator and the New Covenant" for a clearer understanding of the matter.

 

[Moriah's Song]

So then you are saying the cup that Jesus offered is the new covenant?

Mediator of a New Covenant

The "seed" promise and the "throne" promise, were both fulfilled in the coming of Christ, the Son of God and King of kings.

COVENANT: A covenant in the Bible is a legal will or testament, decreed to man by God directly, or through a mediator. A covenant may include precepts, provisos, punishments, and promises.

1 A Better Covenant Promised

"Behold the days are coming says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, It won't be like the covenant that I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt. They broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them, says the LORD. But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel: After those days, says the LORD, I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts, and I will be their God and they shall be my people...They shall all know me from the least to the greatest says the LORD, for I will forgive their iniquity and their sins I will remember no more."​

Mediator - (Jeremiah 31:31-34).

This was a magnificent promise which was fulfilled by Jesus Christ whose "blood of the [new] covenant" was "shed for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matthew 26:28, 1Corinthians 11:25)​

2- A New Mediator for the New Covenant

The mediator of the old covenant was Moses. The mediator of the "New Covenant" is Jesus Christ the Son of God.
MEDIATOR: one who presents the decrees of a high authority to his subjects on his behalf. An “intercessor”, on the other hand, presents the pleas of the subjects to the high authority on their behalf.​

Jesus is called "the mediator of a better covenant enacted upon better promises" (Hebrews 8:6). for two reasons:

1. (1) His was the only blood that could be shed for the forgiveness of sins. He was the perfect sacrifice and nobody else had that necessary perfection “without spot” (Hebrews 9:14).
2. (2) Jesus is the person of highest authority whom God could send. No other person among angels or men has the authority of the Son of God. After dying on the cross, being raised from the dead, and exalted to God's right hand, he was given "the name which is above every name" —the authority which is above every authority (Philippians 2:5-11). When this mediator delivers a covenant from God, we had better listen!

3 A New Covenant for a New People - Jeremiah's promise (Jeremiah 31:31-34) speaks of "The house of Israel and the house of Judah" which seems to limit the promise to the descendants of Jacob. However we find, praise the Lord, that all nations and peoples are included.

JACOB: also called Israel. The name “Israel” applies to four entities in the Bible..

1. the patriarch Jacob,
2. the kingdom ruled by David and Solomon,
3. the northern kingdom after the division,
4. the church that Christ established.

Jesus said,

"I have other sheep who are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they shall hear my voice, and they shall become one flock with one Shepherd" (John 10:16).​

Paul explains,

"There is neither Jew nor Greek... you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise" (Galatians 3:28-29). God’s kingdom is no longer an earthly Israel or Judah.​

A person is the seed of Abraham and shares the inheritance

"by belief in accordance with grace, so that the promise may be certain to all the seed, not only to those of the Law, but also to those of the faith of Abraham who is the father of us all" (Romans 4:14-16).​

SEED: The Bible sometimes uses the word seed in a special sense. It means offspring or descendant. Jesus Christ was the promised seed of Abraham (Gal 3:16).

The holy nation is now a spiritual and universal kingdom comprised of all believers in Christ whether Jew or Greek. That's why Jesus told his disciples to "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation" and that anyone could believe and obey that gospel and be saved (Mark 16:15-16).

Paul declared that gospel to be "the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek" (Romans 1:16). Have you believed and obeyed that gospel, God's covenant for you, mediated to you by Jesus Christ?

GREEK The term Greek is used in certain New Testament passages, to mean Gentile or non-Jew. The Greek language and culture was still widespread so represented the world in general.

 

[theefaith]

Matthew 26:28
For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission ofsins.

 

[Moriah's Song]

We agree with all that is said, and would advise those who believe the New Covenant is presently in effect and applies to Christians to see our blog post entitled, "The Mediator and the New Covenant" for a clearer understanding of the matter.

The Jehovah's Witness are not consider to be members of the Christian faith no matter what they call themselves because they deny that the New Covenant is for all people who believe during this age. Also, nowhere does the Bible limit the number of persons (144,000) who can go to heaven as the JW's falsely claim. These are both man-made teachings and have no biblical basis.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Number 3 - right? ;)

correct! Now what was #3 called on the table, this is for the grand prize!!!!!:)

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You have no right to be saying that I belong to any "sect" let alone the "RCC" and is inappropriate at best. The Doctrine of the New Covenant is by Christ alone in scripture and its "seed" is the "ekklesia" or the Jewish/Christian church with its foundation in Jesus Christ; was instituted at the Lord's Supper, and "fulfilled/ratified" by the blood of Jesus shed on the cross.

So do you not belong to any church that you attend? I sincerely ask you answer this question.

Jhn 19:30 When Jesus had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished"; and he bowed his head and gave up his spirit.

that was teh punishment for sin. Do you not know how to keep things in context?

Luk 18:31 - And taking the twelve, he said to them, "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written of the Son of man by the prophets will be accomplished.

Q- Are you calling Jesus a liar and that he did not fulfill "ALL" of what was he said was written of Him by the prophet Jeremiah in 31:31?

Actually you are calling Jesus a liar by forcing the new covenant as something He fulfilled. Teh new covenant is with the house of Judah and Israel not to Jesus. Sorry but not every prophecy in the OT is about Jesus in case you don't know!

Keep waiting! The same applies to your previous unacceptable and completely unreasonable demand....

WOW! You make a claim that Gentiles are part of teh new covenant as writen in Jeremiah 31 and I am unreasonable by asking you to show how? WOW!

Mat 13:14 - "With them indeed is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah which says: 'You shall indeed hear but never understand, and you shall indeed see but never perceive."

Accept what Jesus and the New Testament says and stop fighting with Scripture in order to sustain false doctrines taught by a man in 1800's. That is the "sect" you are so deep into that you don't even make sense half the time because Darby's newly invented doctrine keeps the blindfolds on to his followers.

Your demonic ad-hominems notwithstanding, I was not given a secret bosco decoder ring like you so I can see things not written in the text of SCripture.


And you rignorance of belief is showing, The belief that the new covenant as spelled out in Jeremiah 31 is for Israel exclusively is much much older than darby. What is older than Darby is the antisemitic teaching that the new covenant is passed to the church by the RCC and augustine.

Classic dispensationalism began with John Nelson Darby. Darby was succeeded by Scotlands' C. I. Scofield, the Bible teacher Harry A. Ironside, Lewis Sperry Chafer, William R. Newell, Miles J. Stanford, and in recent years, John Walvrood, each of whom identified Pentecost (Acts 2) with the start of the Church as distinct from Israel; this may be referred to as the “Acts 2” position. Other Acts 2 Pauline dispensationalists include R. B. Shiflet, Roy A. Huebner, and Carol Berubee.

And if you believe that the church started at any other time than Pentecost you are bereft of understanding what the church is! And the definition you cite from a book is the opinion of men who are against their brethren. They are not infallible as shown by the word began. It was reborn with Darby in its crude way. ( though I have to admit I have never studied any Darby stuff directly) This is also when what is called the literal/historical/grammatical understanding of Scripture was reborn into Christendom. With first Augustine and then fully promulgated by the RCC, allegorical, covenant theology was in near total domination of believers.

Accept what Jesus and the New Testament says and stop fighting with Scripture in order to sustain false doctrines taught by a man in 1800's. That is the "sect" you are so deep into that you don't even make sense half the time because Darby's newly invented doctrine keeps the blindfolds on to his followers.

The sin of presumptuousness is so unbecoming on you ! Well we do follow the teachings that were rebirthed in the 1800's in some areas but that is better than blindly following the base teachings of the RCC in its antisemitism and reinterpreting Scripture as do you.
You are great at eisegesis, which is one of the greatest sins of teh church today and hurling false accusations against your brethren. This is not what jesus taught!

2Pe 2:1 - "But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction."

Why am I not surprised you would think that of me!

"The New Covenant was instituted by the blood of Christ that was shed on the cross and ratified upon His resurrection."

His blood itself is not the New Covenant. His blood is what he shed for the New Covenant to be enacted.

And as I have been asking now for multiple threads and not answered once by any of you who are more interested in trying to rip me apart instead of answering the simple request I made at the very beginning of each thread. Let me repeat for the umpteenth time:

IF THE NEW COVENANT WENT INTO EFFECT SOME TIME AROUND JESUS' DEATH/RESURRECTION, THEN PLEASE SHOW ME FROM SCRIPTURE HOW THE NEW COVENANT AS WRITTEN IN JEREMIAH 31:31-34 IS NOW IN FORCE.

That is not a cryptic hard to understand question. Here is the covenant once again:
Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


This is all directed to Israel, all of Israel, not just the crowds at Pentecost- but the house of Israel and Judah- that means all twelve tribes - ALL of them. God makes that clear here.

Now I have read the New testament over 200 times in 47 years and I still can't find this being fulfilled today, for they are Israelites who still don't know the Lord and Israelites who still die and their sins have not been forgiven for they did not accept Jesus as Messiah.

I do not see this prophecy being fulfilled as prophesied! YOu do so sho wit.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Vine's Expository Dictionary
MESITES (Gk) - literally a go-between (from mesos, middle, and eimi, to go), is used in two ways in the N.T.,

a) one who mediates between two parties with a view to producing peace, as in 1 Tim. 2:5, though more than mere mediatorship is in view, for the salvation of men necessitated that the Mediator should Himself possess the nature and attributes of Him towards who He acts, and should likewise participate in the nature of those for whom he acts (sin apart); only by being possessed both of Deity and humanity could He comprehend the claims of the one and the needs of the other; further, the claims and the needs could be met only by One who, Himself being proved sinless, would offer Himself an expiatory sacrifice on behalf of men;

b) one who acts as a guarantee so as to secure something which otherwise would not be obtained. Thus in Heb 8:6; 9:15; 12:24 Christ is the Surety of "the better covenant," - "the new covenant," guaranteeing its terms for his people.

Thayer's Greek Lexicon Galatians 3:20. Used of Moses, as one who brought the commands of God to the people of Israel and acted as mediator with God on behalf of the people, Galatians 3:19 (cf. Deuteronomy 5:5; hence, he is called μεσίτης καί διαλλακτής by Philo also, vit. Moys. iii. § 19). Christ is called the μεσίτης Θεοῦ καί ἀνθρώπων, since he interposed by his death and restored the harmony between God and man which human sin had broken, 1 Timothy 2:5; also μεσίτης διαθήκης, Hebrews 8:6; Hebrews 9:15; Hebrews 12:24. (Polybius 28, 15, 8; Diodorus 4, 54; Philo de somn. i. § 22; Josephus, Antiquities 16, 2, 2; Plutarch, de Isa. et Os. 46; once in the Sept., Job 9:33.) Cf. Fischer, De vitiis lexamples N. T., p. 351ff

The only problem is a surety (engyos) is not synonymous with a mediator( mesites) a surety is a pledge that what was promised will be given (here the new covenant)

And you forget that if a covenant is in effect, there is no need for any more mediator, for both parties are no win the covenant, that is how that works. And you forget that the new covenant replaces the old and according to GODS WORD and not a reinterpretation of GODS WORD, who are both covenants made with? God clearly says both covenants are made with Israel or the jews all 12 tribes. why should I accept your word as literal and not Gods Word as literal??? that is the biggest question here. You want me to believe your reinterpreting what is clearly and unambiguously written. Why?

Who are "his people?"

Mat 2:6...'And you, O Bethlehem, in the land of Judah, are by no means least among the rulers of Judah; for from you shall come a ruler who will govern my people Israel.'"
Rom 9:25...As indeed he says in Hose'a, "Those who were not my people I will call 'my people,' and her who was not beloved I will call 'my beloved.'"

Rom 9:26..."And in the very place where it was said to them, 'You are not my people,' they will be called 'sons of the living God.'"

2Co 6:16...What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Heb 8:10...This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God,.......and they shall be my people.
Israel is God's people; both Jews and Gentiles...the church of the New Covenant!

2 Chronicles 7:14
If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

Zechariah 13:9
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Hosea 1:9-11
King James Version

9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be your God.

10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel


Romans 11:25-29
King James Version

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.


Yes the church are the people of God, but calling teh church Israel defies Scripture and is a man made construct of the RCC that you hold onto.

Acts 15:14
Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.

In case you have forgotten, Gods name is not Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside for the calling out of the gentiles a people for his name, but once that full number is reached as GOD said, the ALL ISRAEL (not some).

But according to your version of Scripture You say in verse 25 above part of the church is in blindness until the gentiles (whoever that means in the new translation of yours)

then in verse 28, the church is enemies for the gentiles sake (whoever they are). Silly isn't it?????????

Just read the above verses.

Not one of those verses even subtly mentions the new covenant, nor does not one say that Israel is not Israel anymore because the church is now Israel. Nor does it hint that the covenant specifically made to the Jewish nation has been transferred to the church as declared in Jer. 31. That is a RCC construct to promote hatred of Jews.

 

[Moriah's Song]

So do you not belong to any church that you attend? I sincerely ask you answer this question.

I go to a building called "the church."
I belong to the "body of Christ" - the "ekklesia"/the assembly/the church.
I'm in the New Covenant. Are you?

 

[theefaith]

I go to a building called "the church."
I belong to the "body of Christ" - the "ekklesia"/the assembly/the church.
I'm in the New Covenant. Are you?

how did you become a member of Christ in the new covenant?

 

[Moriah's Song]

how did you become a member of Christ in the new covenant?

As a born-again Christian I am in (or a member as you put it) the "body of Christ. As being in the "body of Christ" I do not deny the New Covenant for this age like a certain individual who believes it is for a later period of time and only for the Jews. Denying the New Covenant that Jesus clearly intended for it to be instituted at the Last Supper and ratified upon His shed blood on the cross is tatamount to denying the work of Christ....a VERY serious matter.

What "denomination" I belong to is irrelevant to me unless they preach the false doctrine of dispensationalism from the pulpit. I had gone to one church that preached it and before I could be a member of that church I had to agree that I would never speak of my disapproval of that system. I walked out and never looked back.

 

[theefaith]

As a born-again Christian I am in (or a member as you put it) the "body of Christ. As being in the "body of Christ" I do not deny the New Covenant for this age like a certain individual who believes it is for a later period of time and only for the Jews. Denying the New Covenant that Jesus clearly intended for it to be instituted at the Last Supper and ratified upon His shed blood on the cross is tatamount to denying the work of Christ....a VERY serious matter.

What "denomination" I belong to is irrelevant to me unless they preach the false doctrine of dispensationalism from the pulpit. I had gone to one church that preached it and before I could be a member of that church I had to agree that I would never speak of my disapproval of that system. I walked out and never looked back.

ok good now how do you become a member of the new covenant?

 

[Moriah's Song]

ok good now how do you become a member of the new covenant?

becoming a member of the new covenant is not something you join....although it is something a person can deny because it is not a "tradition of man".

The theologian John Piper put it this way..."One way to look at it is that a church without a covenant is like a marriage without vows."

There are "so-called" Christian churches that say that there are two distinct people of God; one is the Gentile church for this period of time and under no covenant and the other is for the Jewish people for a later time who the New Covenant is for. That is denying the work of Christ on the cross and the New Covenant that was "the now covenant" not the "will be covenant."

 

[theefaith]

becoming a member of the new covenant is not something you join....although it is something a person can deny because it is not a "tradition of man".

The theologian John Piper put it this way..."One way to look at it is that a church without a covenant is like a marriage without vows."

There are "so-called" Christian churches that say that there are two distinct people of God; one is the Gentile church for this period of time and the other is the Jewish people for a later time who the New Covenant is for. That is denying the work of Christ on the cross and the New Covenant that was "the now covenant" not the "will be covenant."

ok the church and covenant are eternal

how do you become a member
How do you put in Christ or become in union with Christ and the communion of saints?

 

[Moriah's Song]

How do you put in Christ...

I'm not too sure how to interpret that ;)

 

[Philip James]

I'm not too sure how to interpret that ;)

I believe he may have made a typo...

'How do you put on Christ' ? And enter into the communion of the saints?

Baptism and Eucharist is the answer..

1243 The white garment symbolizes that the person baptized has "put on Christ," has risen with Christ. the candle, lit from the Easter candle, signifies that Christ has enlightened the neophyte. In him the baptized are "the light of the world."
The newly baptized is now, in the only Son, a child of God entitled to say the prayer of the children of God: "Our Father."

1244 First Holy Communion. Having become a child of God clothed with the wedding garment, the neophyte is admitted "to the marriage supper of the Lamb" and receives the food of the new life, the body and blood of Christ.

Catechism of the Catholic Church - IntraText

Pax et Bonum!

 

[theefaith]

I'm not too sure how to interpret that ;)

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[theefaith]

God breathed life into Adam, gen 2:7 and we received this life from our fathers!

Christ breathed on the apostles our spiritual fathers, we receive the new covenant life of God’s grace from them thru faith & baptism! Jn 20:21-23 Mk 16:16 acts 8:36-38

Born again! Born from above!

'The Father has set his seal' on Christ (John 6:27) and also seals us in him (cf. 2 Corinthians 1:22; Ephesians 1:23, 4:30). Because this seal indicates the indelible effect of the anointing with the Holy Spirit in the sacrament of Baptism,

Baptism indeed is the seal of eternal life." 87 The faithful Christian who has "kept the seal" until the end, remaining faithful to the demands of his Baptism, will be able to depart this life "marked with the sign of faith," 88 with his baptismal faith, in expectation of the blessed vision of God - the consummation of faith - and in the hope of resurrection.

St. Paul tells the faithful at Ephesus that they have been “sealed with the promised Holy Spirit.” This is in terms of an indelible character imprinted on the soul in the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. It is not as if this invisible mark is simply decorative. Rather, through it, we are enabled to participate in Christ’s mission and in his offices of priest, prophet, and king. Eph 1:13

Sealed by God eph 1:13 sealed by God (ez 36:25-27) in the ark of salvation by baptism just as Noah was sealed by God in the ark of the flood gen 7:16

1 Pet 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark of Noah none were saved, outside the church (the ark of salvation) none are saved!)

Sealed in the ark, sealed in the church the ark of salvation by baptism!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As a born-again Christian I am in (or a member as you put it) the "body of Christ. As being in the "body of Christ" I do not deny the New Covenant for this age like a certain individual who believes it is for a later period of time and only for the Jews. Denying the New Covenant that Jesus clearly intended for it to be instituted at the Last Supper and ratified upon His shed blood on the cross is tatamount to denying the work of Christ....a VERY serious matter.

What "denomination" I belong to is irrelevant to me unless they preach the false doctrine of dispensationalism from the pulpit. I had gone to one church that preached it and before I could be a member of that church I had to agree that I would never speak of my disapproval of that system. I walked out and never looked back.

If I had gone to a dispensational church like you did, I would have walked out as well. I have doen several media debates with other "dispensationalists" and they get frustrated because they cannot peg me as classical, Darbian, neo classical., progressive etc.

Why I call my self a dispensationalist is because it is the branch of the followerrs of Jesus that believe in teh literal /historical/grammatical understanding of Scripture. I have attended several Covenant theology churches and I will never darken their dorrs again. and I think th eones I did attend are glad I won't be back.

I go to a building called "the church."

Sorry but a building is not teh church. It is those who walk in who are saved that are the church.

I belong to the "body of Christ" - the "ekklesia"/the assembly/the church.

As do I. but we do talk of which sect we belong to . It is simply real communication. I have precious brethren who are Catholic, Pentecostal, Arminians , replacement theology folk like yourself. I am willing to rpay and fellowship with anyone who loves the Lord, and yes debate passionately and intensely over issues that divide us.

I'm in the New Covenant. Are you?

Well that is why we are debating on this thread now aren't we?

But to quote the Moriah Translation.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
King James Version

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of the church, and with the house of Judah (who are these folks?):

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of the church; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.


Romans 11:25-36
King James Version

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to the church, until the fulness of the Gentiles(???) be come in.

26 And so all the church shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from the church:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they (the church) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they (the church) are beloved for the father's sakes.

Ephesians 2:12
That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of the church, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

Philippians 3:5
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of the church, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;

Hebrews 8:8
For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of the church and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of the church after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hebrews 11:22
By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of the church; and gave commandment concerning his bones.

SO WHEN DOES YOUR BIBLE WHICH CORRECTS GODS' MISTAKES WHEN HE INSPIRED THE ORIGNAL WRITERS GO TO PRINT????

 

[Moriah's Song]

they get frustrated because they cannot peg me as classical, Darbian, neo classical., progressive etc.

One does not have to proclaim if they agree with Darby's newly devised theory of dispensational views that has overtaken the traditional view that existed for 1800 years. One becomes a Darbite because of holding the views of a man's interpretation that simply is not in scripture just as the JW's claim to be followers of Christ but are not Christians because they, in reality, follow the teachings of Charles Taze Russell etc. It's the teachings and the originators of the unbiblical doctrines that define who they really follow.

Mat 7:22 "On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'"

 

[Moriah's Song]

Why I call my self a dispensationalist is because it is the branch of the followerrs of Jesus that believe in teh literal /historical/grammatical understanding of Scripture.

That has been very obvious to me.

replacement theology folk like yourself.

Do not use that term for my beliefs again as I do not belive what you say concerning Jer. 31:31 as do the following commentators...

Benson Commentary
Jeremiah 31:31-32. Behold, the days come, saith the Lord — The latter days, or the times of the gospel, are here intended, as is evident from the apostle’s applying the following promises to those times, and quoting this whole passage as a summary of the covenant of grace, Hebrews 8:8-10. I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah — The benefits of this covenant were first offered to the Jews, as being the completion of that covenant which God had made with their fathers, Acts 3:26; Acts 13:46; but those benefits were actually conferred only on the spiritual seed of Abraham, or the imitators of Abraham’s faith, the true Israel of God, on whom peace is and shall be, Galatians 6:16, and with whom only this new covenant is made. In other words, Israel and Judah stand here for the true people or church of God, especially the gospel church: and the covenant here promised to be made with them is said to be new, not because it was so as to the substance of it, for it was made with Abraham, Genesis 17:7, and with the Israelites, Deuteronomy 26:17-18; but, upon many other accounts, especially the following: —

1st, It was new, considered as a testament, confirmed by the actual death of the testator, which did not take place till gospel times.
2d, It was revealed after a new manner, more fully and particularly, plainly and clearly.
3d, It contained no such mixture of temporal promises as when first made with the Jews.
4th, The ceremonial law was no part of it, as it was to the Jews, who were obliged to approve themselves God’s people, by a strict observance thereof.
5th, The publication of it was extended to the Gentiles as well as the Jews, which was not the case with the Mosaic covenant.
6th, The influences of the Divine Spirit, attending the publication of it, are conferred more largely under this than under the old covenant, distributing to believers a greater measure and variety of gifts and graces, to enable them to comply with the terms, and fulfil the demands of it.
​

Not according to the covenant made with their fathers — Differing from it in the circumstances above mentioned, and in others declared afterward: in the day when I took them by the hand, &c. — The covenant which God made with the Jews, when they came out of the land of Egypt, was on his part the law which he gave them from Sinai, with the promises annexed; on their part, (which made it a formal covenant,) their promise of obedience to it. This covenant God says he made with them when they were a weak and ignorant people, the care of whom he took upon himself, and led them as a parent leads his feeble child by the hand. Which my covenant they brake — This covenant they are said to have broken, not because of every defect, or failure in their obedience, for in that sense, through the general depravity and weakness of human nature, they could not but break it; (see Romans 3:20; Galatians 3:10-11; but because of their gross and wilful sins often repeated and continued in without repentance, and more especially by their idolatry, compared to whoredom, which broke the marriage covenant between God and them, and caused him to divorce them, and to say, Lo Ammi, You are not my people: Although I was a husband to them — This their covenant-breaking was aggravated by God’s kindness to them and care of them, who, as he stood, related to them in the character of a husband, so he had always manifested to them such love as is but faintly shadowed forth by that of the most affectionate husband to his wife, and had given them no temptation to go a whoring from him.

Ellicott's Commentary for English Readers
(31) I will make a new covenant . . .—Both in itself, and as the germ of the future of the spiritual history of mankind, the words are of immense significance. It was to this that the Lord Jesus directed the thoughts of His disciples, as the prophecy which, above all other prophecies, He had come to fulfil by the sacrifice of Himself. In that “New Covenant” in His blood, which He solemnly proclaimed at the Last Supper (Matthew 26:28), and which was commemorated whenever men met to partake of the Supper of the Lord (1Corinthians 11:25), there was latent the whole argument of the writer of the Epistle to the Hebrews (Hebrews 8-10), the whole Gospel of justification by faith as proclaimed by St. Paul (Galatians 3:15-17).

It is noticeable, as showing how like thoughts were working in the minds of the two prophets, Jeremiah and Ezekiel, that in Ezekiel also the promise of a “new heart and new spirit” comes in close sequence upon the protest against the adage about the “children’s teeth being set on edge” (Ezekiel 18:31). In the words for “saith the Lord” we have the more solemn word which carries with it the announcement as of an oracle from God.

Barnes' Notes on the Bible
A time is foretold which shall be to the nation as marked an epoch as was the Exodus. God at Sinai made a covenant with His people, of which the sanctions were material, or (where spiritual) materially understood. Necessarily therefore the Mosaic Church was temporary, but the sanctions of Jeremiah's Church are spiritual - written in the heart - and therefore it must take the place of the former covenant Hebrews 8:13, and must last forever. The prophecy was fulfilled when those Jews who accepted Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, expanded the Jewish into the Christian Church.

Geneva Study Bible
Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a {h} new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

(h) Though the covenant of redemption made to the fathers and this which was given later seemed varied, yet they are all one and grounded on Jesus Christ, save that this is called new, because of the manifestation of Christ and the abundant graces of the Holy Spirit given to his Church under the gospel.

These 4 out of 11 commentators agree on all of the aspects of Jer. 31:31. I only added a few underlines to them. I made no changes in what they wrote.