CALVINISM IS SIMPLY THE GOSPEL BELIEVED

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Davy

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No believer on Jesus Christ should allow themselves to be attached to a religious system of men's traditions that do not conform to Bible Scripture. So you like the Church down the street? they teach some questionable doctrines you cannot find evidence for in your Bible?

Fine, go there if you still like that Church, but do not succumb to their doctrines that are outside of Bible Scripture, for those are tethers to tie your spirit down, and can cause The Holy Spirit to move away from you if you latch onto those things by men. The devil's demons existed in the synagogues which Jesus went into, so don't think they cannot exist within a Christian Church building also.

Say you don't take your Bible to Church with you? you don't bother confirming in God's Word what they are teaching? Shame on you, for how... will you know what they are teaching is written in The Word of God?
 
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Johann

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Bible Scripture as interpreted by whom?
Catholics?

Ooohhhhhh--

2 Timothy 2:15 (NIV)
Verse: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the importance of diligent study and accurate interpretation of Scripture, urging believers to handle God's Word with care.

2. 1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
Verses: "This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."
Explanation: Paul explains that spiritual understanding comes through the Holy Spirit, indicating that interpretation of Scripture requires spiritual discernment.

3. Acts 17:11 (NIV)
Verse: "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."
Explanation: The Bereans are commended for their diligence in studying the Scriptures daily to verify the truth of Paul's teachings, highlighting the importance of examining Scripture carefully.

4. 2 Peter 1:20-21 (NIV)
Verses: "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
Explanation: This passage asserts that Scripture is divinely inspired and not subject to private interpretation, emphasizing the need for reliance on God's guidance through the Holy Spirit.

5. John 16:13 (NIV)
Verse: "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."
Explanation: Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, will guide believers into all truth, including the correct understanding of Scripture.

6. James 1:5 (NIV)
Verse: "If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you."
Explanation: James encourages believers to seek wisdom from God, particularly when it comes to understanding and applying Scripture.

7. Psalm 119:18 (NIV)
Verse: "Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law."
Explanation: The psalmist prays for spiritual insight to understand God's law, illustrating the need for divine illumination in interpreting Scripture.

8. Matthew 22:29 (NIV)
Verse: "Jesus replied, 'You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.'"
Explanation: Jesus rebukes the Sadducees for their lack of understanding of the Scriptures, pointing to the necessity of knowing and correctly interpreting God's Word.

9. Hebrews 4:12 (NIV)
Verse: "For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."
Explanation: This verse speaks to the power and effectiveness of God's Word, suggesting that proper interpretation of Scripture has profound implications for our lives.

10. Proverbs 2:6 (NIV)
Verse: "For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding."
Explanation: This verse acknowledges that true wisdom and understanding, including that of Scripture, come from God.
These verses collectively emphasize the importance of diligent study, spiritual discernment, and reliance on the Holy Spirit in interpreting and understanding the Bible.
 
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Augustin56

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Catholics?

Ooohhhhhh--

2 Timothy 2:15 (NIV)
Verse: "Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth."
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the importance of diligent study and accurate interpretation of Scripture, urging believers to handle God's Word with care.

2. 1 Corinthians 2:13-14 (NIV)
Verses: "This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words. The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit."
Explanation: Paul explains that spiritual understanding comes through the Holy Spirit, indicating that interpretation of Scripture requires spiritual discernment.

3. Acts 17:11 (NIV)
Verse: "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."
Explanation: The Bereans are commended for their diligence in studying the Scriptures daily to verify the truth of Paul's teachings, highlighting the importance of examining Scripture carefully.

4. 2 Peter 1:20-21 (NIV)
Verses: "Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit."
Explanation: This passage asserts that Scripture is divinely inspired and not subject to private interpretation, emphasizing the need for reliance on God's guidance through the Holy Spirit.

5. John 16:13 (NIV)
Verse: "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."
Explanation: Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, will guide believers into all truth, including the correct understanding of Scripture.

6. James 1:5 (NIV)
Verse: "If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you."
Explanation: James encourages believers to seek wisdom from God, particularly when it comes to understanding and applying Scripture.

7. Psalm 119:18 (NIV)
Verse: "Open my eyes that I may see wonderful things in your law."
Explanation: The psalmist prays for spiritual insight to understand God's law, illustrating the need for divine illumination in interpreting Scripture.

8. Matthew 22:29 (NIV)
Verse: "Jesus replied, 'You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God.'"
Explanation: Jesus rebukes the Sadducees for their lack of understanding of the Scriptures, pointing to the necessity of knowing and correctly interpreting God's Word.

9. Hebrews 4:12 (NIV)
Verse: "For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart."
Explanation: This verse speaks to the power and effectiveness of God's Word, suggesting that proper interpretation of Scripture has profound implications for our lives.

10. Proverbs 2:6 (NIV)
Verse: "For the Lord gives wisdom; from his mouth come knowledge and understanding."
Explanation: This verse acknowledges that true wisdom and understanding, including that of Scripture, come from God.
These verses collectively emphasize the importance of diligent study, spiritual discernment, and reliance on the Holy Spirit in interpreting and understanding the Bible.
Not "Catholics" individually, but the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ, and which compiled the Bible, wrote the New Testament, and was promised by Christ that the "gates of hell would never prevail" over. (Matt. 16:18) The Catholic Church, therefore, has the authority and protection of the Holy Spirit to correctly, without error, interpret Scripture. 1 Tim 3:15 refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth." Historically, Paul can only have been referring to the ONLY Church that existed then, the Catholic Church. The Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D., and Protestantism wasn't started until the 16th century, long, long after the Bible was written and codified. If you trust the Catholic Church to tell you which books belong in the New Testament, then why not trust the Catholic Church to teach you what it means vs your own personal interpretation?

It seems that everyone using the personal interpretation approach claims to be "led by the Holy Spirit" in their interpretation. But the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Confusion or Contradiction. For example, the Baptists claim that infant Baptism is invalild. Lutherans say it is valid. Both groups read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit. That cannot be, because they come up with contradictory interpretations.
 
J

Johann

Guest
Not "Catholics" individually, but the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ, and which compiled the Bible, wrote the New Testament, and was promised by Christ that the "gates of hell would never prevail" over. (Matt. 16:18) The Catholic Church, therefore, has the authority and protection of the Holy Spirit to correctly, without error, interpret Scripture. 1 Tim 3:15 refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth." Historically, Paul can only have been referring to the ONLY Church that existed then, the Catholic Church. The Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D., and Protestantism wasn't started until the 16th century, long, long after the Bible was written and codified. If you trust the Catholic Church to tell you which books belong in the New Testament, then why not trust the Catholic Church to teach you what it means vs your own personal interpretation?

It seems that everyone using the personal interpretation approach claims to be "led by the Holy Spirit" in their interpretation. But the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Confusion or Contradiction. For example, the Baptists claim that infant Baptism is invalild. Lutherans say it is valid. Both groups read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit. That cannot be, because they come up with contradictory interpretations.
So is infant baptism valid?
 

RedFan

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5. John 16:13 (NIV)
Verse: "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come."
Explanation: Jesus promises that the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of truth, will guide believers into all truth, including the correct understanding of Scripture.
Read literally, John is saying the Spirit is speaking what he hears. "Hears" from whom? Step up, you Trinitarians out there, and weigh in on why the Spirit doesn't already know what to say without hearing it from anyone or anything.
 

Rockerduck

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Not "Catholics" individually, but the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ, and which compiled the Bible, wrote the New Testament, and was promised by Christ that the "gates of hell would never prevail" over. (Matt. 16:18) The Catholic Church, therefore, has the authority and protection of the Holy Spirit to correctly, without error, interpret Scripture. 1 Tim 3:15 refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth." Historically, Paul can only have been referring to the ONLY Church that existed then, the Catholic Church. The Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D., and Protestantism wasn't started until the 16th century, long, long after the Bible was written and codified. If you trust the Catholic Church to tell you which books belong in the New Testament, then why not trust the Catholic Church to teach you what it means vs your own personal interpretation?

It seems that everyone using the personal interpretation approach claims to be "led by the Holy Spirit" in their interpretation. But the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Confusion or Contradiction. For example, the Baptists claim that infant Baptism is invalild. Lutherans say it is valid. Both groups read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit. That cannot be, because they come up with contradictory interpretations.
If the Bible don't say it, it's not valid. People need to read, and not read into what the bible says. Baptism in the New Testament bible is immersion. That's it; and only after receiving the Holy Spirit, not before
 

Rockerduck

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Read literally, John is saying the Spirit is speaking what he hears. "Hears" from whom? Step up, you Trinitarians out there, and weigh in on why the Spirit doesn't already know what to say without hearing it from anyone or anything.
John is quoting Jesus. Jesus is speaking plainly and the truth. The Holy Spirit speaks to believers and reveals the truth to them and guides them. The Holy Speaks and I hear Him. Don't claim believers don't hear the Holy Spirit just because you don't.
 

Randy Kluth

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I should? Because your contradicting yourself. I should pray for myself? Thats kind of arrogant to say my friend
I see no arrogance. I reject your "prayers" because they are insulting "prayers." It's like my saying I'm praying for you to see "the truth," as I see it.
No, Because John did not say what you claim, The apostle john wrote John 3, John 4, John 5 John 6, 1 John 2 and 1 John 3,. which totally contradicts what you said.. did he contradict himself also?
Funny you can't deal with 1 John 2? I quoted it for you. It says just what I've been saying, that if you choose to accept Christ you simultaneously choose to live in Christ. And you would deny that?
lol. dude, I follow no church, I am not a follower of man. I am a follower of God.
If you don't belong to a church, you're likely more of a renegade Christian who is all about yourself. You learn how to get along with Christians by being among them, and not by considering them "beneath you."

Luke 18.13 “But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14 “I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.”


Well those terms mean nothing,, Because in no case did paul say we are saved by any waorks. evern works of righteousness

Ttius 3: 5 not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his MERCY HE SAVED US.
As I said, our Works do not self-atone. Rather, they are part and parcel with our choice to follow Christ. When we choose to follow Christ we also choose to produce his works. If we say we are justified apart from his works, then we fail James 2, "Faith without Deeds is dead."

Funny, you seem unable to address either 1 John 2 or James 2??
I was saved,, EVidently you have no confidence in god.. which would explain why you have alot of confidence in your flesh.
What do you mean I have "confidence in my flesh?" I'm confident I can do good works through Christ. That doesn't mean I have confidence in "my flesh," which is a reference to Works done apart from faith in Christ.
We are ONLY saved by faith alone alone, through the redemption found in christ jesus See how you twist his words. He said faith apart from works
You're using a Protestant talking point, which I would agree with if you used it properly. But you don't. "Faith Alone" has to do with Christ's Atonement, which only he could do. We are Eternally Justified by Christ's Redemption only.

But that doesn't mean that in choosing to follow Christ that we can avoid living in him or doing good works through him. Clearly, if we try to choose him but not follow him our so-called "Faith" is dead!

I'm disinterested in your endless "chatter" about how Christ atoned for our sins. We both agree on that. Apparently you don't wish to admit that part of choosing Christ is choosing to live in him?
 

Augustin56

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If the Bible don't say it, it's not valid. People need to read, and not read into what the bible says. Baptism in the New Testament bible is immersion. That's it; and only after receiving the Holy Spirit, not before
But that's not what the Bible says. Where in the Bible does it say that if the Bible doesn't say something, it's not valid. Nowhere. In fact, it says the opposite. Jesus didn't write a book to spread His truths, He founded a (one) Church to do so, giving it His authority to teach and sanctify. In fact St. Paul refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth" in 1 Tim 3:15. The Bible is a Catholic book, compiled by the Catholic Church, and the New Testament was written by Catholics.
 

Rockerduck

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But that's not what the Bible says. Where in the Bible does it say that if the Bible doesn't say something, it's not valid. Nowhere. In fact, it says the opposite. Jesus didn't write a book to spread His truths, He founded a (one) Church to do so, giving it His authority to teach and sanctify. In fact St. Paul refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth" in 1 Tim 3:15. The Bible is a Catholic book, compiled by the Catholic Church, and the New Testament was written by Catholics.
You need to study more. Matthew is the Lion, Mark is the ox, Luke is the man, John is the eagle.
Matthew - Jesus is King, Mark- Jesus the servant, Luke - the man, John Deity.

Was this predicted in the old testament? You bet it is. It Is part of prophesy from God.

Ezekiel 1:10 - As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

Revelation 4:7 - And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

Those 4 gospels are part of prophesy predicted.
 

Augustin56

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You need to study more. Matthew is the Lion, Mark is the ox, Luke is the man, John is the eagle.
Matthew - Jesus is King, Mark- Jesus the servant, Luke - the man, John Deity.

Was this predicted in the old testament? You bet it is. It Is part of prophesy from God.

Ezekiel 1:10 - As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.

Revelation 4:7 - And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.

Those 4 gospels are part of prophesy predicted.
Rockerduck, I don't think you and I are talking about the same thing. Apples and oranges.
 

Augustin56

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Where in the bible is it?
St. Paul, being a Jew, as well as all of the apostles, understood the idea that true religion is a family affair. A Jew became a Jew when he was circumcised on the eighth day after his birth. They did not have to first “accept Moses as their personal prophet” before they could be circumcised. And according to Paul, baptism is the fulfillment of circumcision:

In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ; and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead. (Col. 2:11-12).

The Greek indicates that baptism is the circumcision of Christ!

This seems trivial to us today. Okay, so baptism is the “circumcision of Christ.” But this was not trivial to first-century Jewish Christians who were being challenged to circumcise their children “after the manner of Moses or else they could not be saved” (see Acts 15:1-2). Many were being persecuted because they chose infant baptism instead of infant circumcision. As Paul says in Romans 2:28:

For he is not a real Jew who is one outwardly, nor is true circumcision something external and physical. He is a Jew who is one inwardly, and real circumcision is a matter of the heart, spiritual and not literal.

What is this “spiritual circumcision” of which Paul speaks? Baptism, according to Colossians 2:11-12. Not the shedding of foreskin, but the transformation of the inward man through the sacrament. As a fulfillment of that which is only a type, baptism does something circumcision could never do: “baptism now saves” us (1 Pet. 3:21). The change that occurs is not physical; it is spiritual. As it is often said, what you don’t see is what you get in all of the sacraments, baptism included—and infant baptism included, too.

Elsewhere in Scripture we find a close association between baptism and circumcision. In Galatians 3:27-28, Paul says:

For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Paul’s point is that baptism is more inclusive than its Old Testament antecedent. You had to be a free, male Jew to be circumcised. And when were males generally circumcised in the Old Testament, by the way? At eight days after birth (Gen. 17:12). Paul’s point is that in the New Testament, baptism is open to all. Of course babies would be included.

This idea of baptism as the circumcision of Christ, therefore opening up the legitimacy of infant baptism, is at least implied in other biblical texts as well. You’ll recall that on Pentecost, Peter preached to thousands of Jews, who already had an understanding of their faith involving a family covenant, and said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. . . . For the promise is to you and to your children and to all that are far off, everyone whom the Lord calls to him” (Acts 2:38-39).

If Peter believed that baptism is exclusive to adults, he was a terrible teacher!

The Lord explicitly “called infants” to himself in Luke 18:15-17:

Now they were bringing even infants to him that he might touch them; and when the disciple saw it, they rebuked them. But Jesus called them to him, saying, “Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God. Truly, I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child shall not enter it.”

These were not just children who were being brought to Jesus. The Greek word here is brephe, which mean “infants.” And again, the Jews listening would understand that the parent’s belief and obedience suffices for the child until he is old enough to own his faith. The parents bringing children to Christ, according to Christ, is equivalent to the children coming to him on their own. Moreover, because babies are icons of what we all should be—that is, they put up no obstacles to the work of God in their lives, and they can most obviously do absolutely nothing to merit anything from God—infant baptism makes sense, as they are reminders of “the sheer gratuitousness of the grace of salvation” (CCC 1250).

From the very beginning, whole “households” received baptism. There is no reason to believe that infants would not have been included (see Acts 11:14; 16:15, 33; 18:8; 1 Cor. 1:16). For brevity’s sake, I will use just one of the five examples cited in that parenthesis. I encourage all reading this to take a look at the other four examples as well.

When Paul led the Philippian jailer to Christ in Acts 16, he said to him, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household” (Acts 16:31). He does not say that all in his household must first believe. He simply says they will all be saved. How could he say that? Paul seems to have understood what St. Peter had already preached back when Paul was still persecuting Christians (in Acts 2:38). The promise of faith and baptism is for the jailer and his children.

Jesus said, “He that believes and is baptized shall be saved” in Mark 16:16. Many claim this to mean that faith must precede baptism. And this would seem to exclude infants as possible candidates for baptism. Seems airtight. Can an infant possess faith? No. Therefore, a baby cannot be licitly baptized.

Although this argument may sound convincing on the surface, it does not survive serious scrutiny. First, Jesus did not say faith must precede baptism for an individual. He simply said one has to believe and be baptized in order to be saved. He said nothing about the two having to be accomplished in that order for the individual.

Moreover, even if we were to accept as fact that faith must come first, even though Mark 16:16 does not say that, this would not exclude the possibility that the faith of the parents suffices until the child reaches the age of accountability.

Second, a strict reading of Mark 16:16 has devastating consequences. A baby cannot believe. Does that mean that all babies who die without believing will not be saved? Of course not! The thief on the cross was presumably not baptized. Does that mean he would not go to heaven? Of course not! Belief and baptism are necessary to those who have the opportunity to obtain them. If they were to be impeded from being able to believe or be baptized, and that could be the case for many different reasons, then God would judge them in accordance with what they were responsible for.

This last point gets to another reason why infant baptism is so important. Sometimes we are accountable not just for ourselves, but for others as well (see Ezek. 3:18-19). Parents are responsible for baptizing their babies. If they knowingly do not do so, they break God’s covenant in a serious matter. Like the paralytic in Matthew 9:2-6 who was completely dependent upon others to bring him to Christ in order for him to get his sins forgiven (and his physical healing), a baby is completely dependent upon his parents to bring him to Christ.

And notice as well that it was the faith of those who brought the paralytic to Christ that God used instrumentally for the paralytic’s salvation: “When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralytic, ‘Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven’” (v. 2). Whose faith did Jesus “see” here? “Their” seems to refer back to the “they” of the same verse: “And behold, they brought to him a paralytic . . .”

The faith of the parents suffices when they bring their infant to be blessed by Christ via “the circumcision of Christ.”

Paul clearly teaches that circumcision never justified anyone, at least in the sense of the initial gift of justification. “We say that faith was reckoned to Abraham . . . before he was circumcised” (Rom. 4:9-10). So doesn’t this prove that baptism does not save us, either?

Three points:

First, as I said above, baptism is the fulfillment of that which was only a type in the Old Testament. The fulfillment is always more glorious than the type. Thus, “baptism does now save you” (1 Pet. 3:21) in a way that circumcision could not.

Second, it is true that Abraham and David were Paul’s two examples of justifying grace occurring apart from circumcision in Romans 4. And yet, Abraham instituted circumcision by divine mandate, and David was, in fact, circumcised as a little baby. Indeed, God also declared in the Old Testament that “any uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant” (Gen. 17:14). It is not a contradiction to say both faith and circumcision were necessary to remain within God’s covenant in the Old Testament, even though circumcision played no role in initial justification.

Third, the faith of the parents sufficed when it came to circumcising a child. Do we not see that principle in the New Testament as well? Jesus saw the faith of the friends of the paralytic and healed the paralytic in Matthew 9:2. When people cannot have faith, the faith of family or friends suffices. So it is with infant baptism. The faith of the parents sanctifies the children, as Paul says in 1 Cor. 7:14. This is just as much a New Testament concept as it is an Old Testament concept.

So if you have the Faith, and you’re on the fence about baptizing a baby . . . wonder no longer. Baptize him/her!
 
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RedFan

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John is quoting Jesus. Jesus is speaking plainly and the truth. The Holy Spirit speaks to believers and reveals the truth to them and guides them. The Holy Speaks and I hear Him. Don't claim believers don't hear the Holy Spirit just because you don't.
Who says I don't hear the Holy Spirit?

NEVER have I claimed that believers don't hear the Holy Spirit. My post is not about hearing the Holy Spirit, but about where the Holy Spirit gets the information He relates to us. John suggests that He overhears it elsewhere. That's what I am exploring.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Bible Scripture as interpreted by whom?
When a person stands before God.

Who will pay the price if their interpretation was wrong.

1. The particular pastor that sat under who they trusted?
2. The church they went to which they trusted?
3. Themselves, for not seeking the spirits guidance and studying to show themselves approved?
 

Eternally Grateful

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Not "Catholics" individually, but the Catholic Church, instituted by Christ, and which compiled the Bible, wrote the New Testament, and was promised by Christ that the "gates of hell would never prevail" over. (Matt. 16:18) The Catholic Church, therefore, has the authority and protection of the Holy Spirit to correctly, without error, interpret Scripture. 1 Tim 3:15 refers to the Church as the "pillar and foundation of truth." Historically, Paul can only have been referring to the ONLY Church that existed then, the Catholic Church. The Orthodox splintered off in 1054 A.D., and Protestantism wasn't started until the 16th century, long, long after the Bible was written and codified. If you trust the Catholic Church to tell you which books belong in the New Testament, then why not trust the Catholic Church to teach you what it means vs your own personal interpretation?

It seems that everyone using the personal interpretation approach claims to be "led by the Holy Spirit" in their interpretation. But the Holy Spirit is not the Spirit of Confusion or Contradiction. For example, the Baptists claim that infant Baptism is invalild. Lutherans say it is valid. Both groups read the same Bible and claim to be led by the same Holy Spirit. That cannot be, because they come up with contradictory interpretations.
Sorry Bro. No church will be held accountable if they get somethign wrong. YOU WILL be held accountable.

If you think the Catholic Church will bail you out if they are wrong,, you have another thing coming.
 

Eternally Grateful

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Read literally, John is saying the Spirit is speaking what he hears. "Hears" from whom? Step up, you Trinitarians out there, and weigh in on why the Spirit doesn't already know what to say without hearing it from anyone or anything.
lol.. How can the Holy Spirit be everywhere?

I am sorry you can not grasp the concept that the father is in charge, and both the son and the spirit take their guidance from him..

it does not make them less of a God than the other.

PS. Trinity is a banned subject..