Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[CadyandZoe]

No. IDOLATRY is something you worship and sacrifice to. What you are stating is just pragmatic considerations. Let me give you an example.

I had a friend who IDOLIZED money. His mantra was that "It's all about the Benjamins." The thought of money polluted every decision and relationship. When I lived in Michigan, I took him to Greek town. There was a store that sold coffee cups. We went back twice to look at the same cup. In the end, he felt he should not pay more than $5.99 for a coffee cup and this one was $8.50. It tormented him.

Years later, recovering from being a widow and now with his 2nd wife, they were at an impasse about having children. His opposition was rooted in the assumption that he'd have to work at additional 5 years if they had a child. I went off on him, telling him that he is going to lose his wife and there is not integrity between his words and his actual position. You see, he'd say he "preferred" not to have children. Truth is, he gave serious thought to ending the marriage to avoid having to work 5 more years. This is IDOLATRY.

I hear what you are saying but I just can't call that idolatry. I think what you describe is avarice. No?

 

[CadyandZoe]

I'm glad you did.


Sure, I can explain IDOLATRY of the Bible in 2 other ways. :)

Besides IDOLATRY of translations, the 2nd form of IDOLATRY of the Bible that became obvious to me is doctrine. In my study of Scripture, I discovered there is no Doctrinal Purity Test to be saved. I thank God for this. I believe the human mind struggles to accept how easy God made salvation for us to acquire. It is us that crave the complexity, drives work based doctrine (implied in your post about no true Christian would do X), and is used to justify ourselves pridefully, etc. For instance, I recently learned an acronym TULIP as it pertains to Calvinism.

Ahh, am I to take it that you were having an emotional response to what I said? I think you were reading your own experience into what I said. What I told you is a Biblical doctrine concerning those whom God is saving. When I say that a child of God would do or not do X I base this on my understanding of salvation.

I don't know if you have read my posts concerning OSAS. In those discussions, I point out the fallacy assumption in that debate, a false concept that BOTH sides of the debate get wrong. The underlying false assumption centers on the moment of salvation. When is a person saved? BOTH sides assume what is sometimes called, "the moment of decision." This error comes from a misconstrued passage in Romans 10. (Some refer to this passage as "TNT" = ten nine ten Romans 10:9-10)

Maybe you have this verse memorized.

Romans 10:9-10

9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. ​

Pulled out of context, these two verses can be forced to support the idea that a person is saved immediately upon the moment of confession. I don't think Paul is describing a solitary, singular moment of confession. He is describing the trajectory of a believer's life experience. In the larger context, Paul draws upon the word of Moses to indicate that faith was always the means to gain God's favor. And if we go back to Deuteronomy we understand that Moses spoke concerning how to live as the people of God. How is a person to spend their life and conduct their affairs in the presence of Yahweh? Moses tells the people, "The word is very near you, in your mouth and in your heart that you may observe it." Deuteronomy 30:14 In other words, as you go about your daily activity, you have the word of God in you.

We can multiply passages wherein we read the promise that if we walk with God he walks with us also. He guides us, he trains us, he disciplines us, he coaches us, and he leads us as a shepherd does. Thus, when I talk about what a child of God would or wouldn't do, my statement assumes this kind of relationship. As Paul told the Philippians, "He who began a good work in you shall complete it until the day of Christ Jesus." (Phil. 1:6)

Bottom line: If I was taught a wrong doctrine, God will help me find this out and correct me. I'm not saying that I will never believe a false doctrine. But God guarantees that I won't believe it for long because I am being schooled (led) by the Holy Spirit. If I should idolize my Bible or my Doctrine (and I'm still not convinced that such a thing happens) I have every confidence that the Holy Spirit will convict and correct me.

I saw a funny meme a few months back. It was of Jesus and a small boy. The boy asked how come only the 2 of them were in heaven. Jesus replied, "Everyone else had their doctrine just a little off."

And this leads into the second form of IDOLATRY in Christendom, which repeats Original Sin. The IDOLATRY of knowledge. Truth is, the lesson of Original Sin is lost on many. We are not saved by our knowledge! There were 2 trees and knowledge is aka the tree of death. Steve Cioccolanti of Discover Ministries said the Bible can be summed up in 2 words: Choose Life (Knowledge is contrary with this choice).

Hope this helps!

I disagree with Steve. Knowledge is not contrary to life as he suggests. (People get some weird ideas sometimes.) He seems to be riffing on the name of the tree: "The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil." In order to understand this name, one need only to return to the account to discover the central issue. What did Eve do wrong?

Well, she ate the fruit of the tree against God's will. That's what she did wrong. But what did Satan say to tempt her to eat? What convinced her to disobey God? In reality, Eve ate of the tree because Satan convinced her that God wanted her to eat of the tree. He convinced her that God would want a mature adult to decide for herself what is good and evil.

In the following passage, notice the "statement-response" aspect of the account below, wherein Satan suggests a reason why Eve ought to eat from the tree and her acceptance of his rationale.

Genesis 3:4-6

“You surely will not die! 5 For God knows that in the day you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6 When the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was desirable to make one wise, she took from its fruit and ate.​

​

Eve wasn't tempted by knowledge, she was tempted by her desire for wisdom, which isn't a bad thing. The desire for wisdom is one of God's blessings. We should all desire wisdom. Eve's sin was not her desire for wisdom; her sin was her willingness to disobey God in order to attain wisdom.

Steve is wrong about knowledge. I could multiply verses in the Bible concerning the great benefits of knowledge. But I believe you have placed your finger on a real concern that we would be wise to consider. Paul spoke about the fact that "knowledge puffeth up." In that context Corinthian Christians were eating meat offered to idols, knowing that there is no such thing as an idol. Paul doesn't correct their knowledge; he agrees with them. However, such Christians were insensitive to the mores of fellow believers who still believed that eating the meat was to share in the temple worship. Paul chastised the free believers for acting in a way that forced a fellow Christian to act contrary to his conscience. Love demands that I don't force another Christian to violate their conscience. Better to go hungry than to corrupt the faith of someone else. (1 Corinthians 8) In this situation, knowledge wasn't the problem; the free Christians were correct. It was a lack of love and concern for a fellow believer that prompted Paul to write.

I'm still a bit confused. Again, I hear what you are saying but I don't think you are describing idolatry. What you describe sounds like faith, principle, persuasion, certainty, and confidence. I don't think it follows that if I am confident that I have the correct doctrine, I am suffering from idolatry. I believe what I believe until proven otherwise. That's how the human mind works. All this talk about having your doctrine "just a little bit off" is nonsense to my ears.

But I guess I never attended a church where people believed that we were saved on the basis of having the correct doctrine. Even so, I would not refer to this as idolatry. Why? Because those who believe that we are saved on the basis of what we know are doing what they believe is pleasing to the Lord. And as Paul says, "who am I to tell another person how to serve the Lord." Romans 14.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Sadly, I'm afraid I do, indeed.

But I don't see the pixies.

I don't borrow trouble, I don't see conspiracies around every corner, I know what the Bible means when it says things like "every word," "all Scripture," "the whole counsel of God," " the conclusion of the matter," and other terms that are meant to encourage us to see Scripture as the supreme source of true knowledge. It wouldn't say these things in so many ways if men weren't disinclined to "get it."

And I'm not satisfied with human-curated collections of proof texts as guides that supposedly make the Bible a common book that could be easily and fully understood by an unrepentant sinner. "If any man will do His will, he shall know of the doctrine..." It is the living, breathing, Word of God. And the LORD grants grace to see His wisdom commensurate with a willingness to obey it, "and none of the wicked shall understand."

Call it "Bibliolatry," call it whatever you want:

"The problem with surface readers is that they don't take the Bible seriously enough." — BarneyFife

Your KJV idolatry piece on @Wrangler was interesting, btw. Very imaginative.

And the Bible is very much a science book.

.

I agree with much of what you said. Just so you know where I am coming from, l spend a lot of my time here (gladly) advocating for Bible study. I hate to see threads like this, seeming to raise doubt about the benefit and the commandment of the Lord to study our Bibles diligently and often. In Paul's first letter to Timothy, he encourages Timothy to read and study his Bible and implies that any so-called follower of Jesus who doesn't read and study his Bible may not be a follower of Jesus at all.

When I looked up the word "Bibliolatry" I flashed on every discussion I ever had with someone from the "amillennial" camp who accused me of taking the Bible too literally.

In my experience, almost all discussions end in one of the following ways:

1. One says to the other, "You will never understand the Bible because you take passages literally that were meant to be taken figuratively, or spiritually, or ideally, or allegorically, etc."
2. One says to the other, "You will never understand the Bible because only the spiritually minded can understand spiritual things."

Both of these statements are used as a cudgel against an opponent, typically out of frustration and resentment.

Reading and studying the Bible in order to make contact with the will of God, is not eating meat offered to idols; it's eating meat God offered to us. Yes?

 

[Wrangler]

Do you believe the Bible is a reliable source of God's will for mankind?

Yes.

What I don't believe is in people's reading comprehension, especially where the IDOLATRY of doctrine is concerned. "In the name of God" began many atrocities in history.

"Thus saith the LORD" relieves the tyrant of moral pains for performing evil.

My father never embraced Christianity after his formative experiences with nuns growing up. Learning how to write and being left-handed, he held the pencil in his left hand. They viciously and repeatedly hit his knuckles with a ruler, probably giving him a lecture about how left handedness is from the devil and it should be shunned.

 

[Wrangler]

I guess I don't know what you mean by idolatry.

I pasted the definition of idolatry in Post # 384.

 

[Wrangler]

I hear what you are saying but I just can't call that idolatry. I think what you describe is avarice. No?

Hmmm. Familiar with Venn diagrams? One might say the genus of all sin is pride, the exaltation of the self in one form or another. It's still IDOLATRY, because he asserts his driving philosophy of life is "it's all about the Benjamins."

 

[Wrangler]

Ahh, am I to take it that you were having an emotional response to what I said?

God too has emotional responses to IDOLATRY.

When I say that a child of God would do or not do X I base this on my understanding of salvation.

This sentence surprised me. I'm not sure how you are connecting salvation with IDOLATRY.

I don't know if you have read my posts concerning OSAS

No, I don't think I did. There are so many threads on OSAS. Several years ago I was heavily involved in one. Now, I generally stay away from them.

I disagree with Steve. Knowledge is not contrary to life as he suggests.

Hmmm. I still don't think you are getting it.

It's not that God wants us to be ignorant. It's about what our priorities are and should be. I submit that if we prioritize life, choose obeying God, the knowledge we need will follow. If we reject life, it can only end in death. Of course, Satan does not market truthfully. Evil seduces. It does not over power. Dressing up death with things that tempt us - like pride, exaltation of ourselves - is how people start on the path.

At first, there may even be short term benefit, like pleasure.

Where I think you are getting particularly caught up in is word play. As long as people don't say they worship the Bible, sex, drugs, money, power, etc, you think that means they are not guilty of IDOLATRY. Wrong! It is the devotional act that is the dead give away.

I'm still a bit confused. Again, I hear what you are saying but I don't think you are describing idolatry.

Understood. Again, this is because you have narrowly defined idolatry. Once your eyes are open, you'll see how pervasive IDOLATRY is throughout Christiandom.

I don't think it follows that if I am confident that I have the correct doctrine, I am suffering from idolatry. I believe what I believe until proven otherwise. That's how the human mind works.

The issue of having correct doctrine is irrelevant. The lack of a doctrinal purity test reveals this.

We invest in our manmade doctrines and debate them endlessly in direct violation of Scripture. See all the threads attacking JW, SDA UR, etc. But you are right, this is how the human mind works.


But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.
Titus 3:9

Welcome all the Lord's followers, even those whose faith is weak. Don't criticize them for having beliefs that are different from yours.
Romans 14:1

We must stop judging others. We must also make up our minds not to upset anyone's faith.
Romans 14:13

don't say cruel things about others! If you do, or if you condemn others, you are condemning God's Law. And if you condemn the Law, you put yourself above the Law and refuse to obey either it 12 or God who gave it. God is our judge, and he can save or destroy us. What right do you have to condemn anyone?
James 4:11-12

All this talk about having your doctrine "just a little bit off" is nonsense to my ears.

Understood. This is because you do not have ears to hear. I challenged you to find a verse where Jesus made a statement like you did: a child of God would do or not do X ... what did you find?

 

[CadyandZoe]

This sentence surprised me. I'm not sure how you are connecting salvation with IDOLATRY.

I'm saying that a child of God, a genuine Jesus follower will not treat the Bible as an Idol. I don't think what you did was treat the Bible as an idol. But suppose I am wrong. Suppose you did treat the Bible as an idol. You no longer do. And so what I should have said, to be more accurate is that genuine Jesus followers, who are being led by the Holy, will not treat the Bible as an idol for long. We all mature in faith and it takes time to resolve and fix issues, but there should always be a trajectory of life changes headed toward righteousness, goodness, truth and love.

It's not that God wants us to be ignorant. It's about what our priorities are and should be. I submit that if we prioritize life, choose obeying God, the knowledge we need will follow. If we reject life, it can only end in death. Of course, Satan does not market truthfully. Evil seduces. It does not over power. Dressing up death with things that tempt us - like pride, exaltation of ourselves - is how people start on the path.

I agree with this. Thanks. :)

At first, there may even be short term benefit, like pleasure.

Where I think you are getting particularly caught up in is word play. As long as people don't say they worship the Bible, sex, drugs, money, power, etc, you think that means they are not guilty of IDOLATRY. Wrong! It is the devotional act that is the dead give away.

That isn't what I meant. I agree with your point about it being a devotional act. I just don't think anyone does that with a Bible.

Understood. Again, this is because you have narrowly defined idolatry. Once your eyes are open, you'll see how pervasive IDOLATRY is throughout Christiandom.

I don't think it's a matter of opening my eyes. My purpose is define the word as narrowly as the Bible does. I could be wrong, but that is my intent. I understand the "informal" definition is much wider. I understand that people say "idolatry" when they actually mean "avarice" or "greed" or some other related category.

But I see a danger in claiming that one used the Bible as an idol. I don't want to leave the impression that people shouldn't devote a fair amount of time to Bible study or to unnecessarily doubt themselves with regard to doctrine, or to be discouraged from trusting the reliability of the Bible. As I attempt to dissuade us from accepting the charge of Bibliology, I need to be as precise and accurate as possible. For this purpose, I felt it necessary to establish a narrow definition.

Perhaps it might be helpful if I posted an example of the kind of encyclopedia reference to which I reacted. I will highlight the wording that I found offensive and dangerous.

"All of the previously discussed uses of scripture can tend at times toward bibliolatry—the treatment in an extreme fashion of scripture as an object of worship or a locus of supernatural power. Such treatment of scriptural texts results from the power associated with the written and spoken word. Bibliolatry can take many forms, from doctrinal emphasis on the infallibility of the literal text to overt bibliomancy, the superstitious or magical use of scripture. The answer to a problem or guidance for any occasion is often sought through scripture divination." Scripture | Encyclopedia.com​

See how that works? This paragraph is a direct attack on the doctrine of infallibility of scripture -- one of the fundamental and foundational tenets of the Christian faith. The section is intended as propaganda, adopting a fallacious argument we might call "guilt by association." The section includes Biblical inerrancy among a list of negative behaviors such as divination, bibliomancy, and idolatry. And our immediate reaction is likely to be, "Well, I don't want to practice divination or bibliomancy so I shouldn't think that the Bible is inerrant either. See the trick they play?

Maybe we can find someone who flips open the Bible to place a finger on a verse. I did that once just to see what would happen. I don't agree with this sort of divination, but this doesn't mean I should abandon my belief that the Bible is without error. I was alive during the "Battle for the Bible" and I thought we won.

The issue of having correct doctrine is irrelevant. The lack of a doctrinal purity test reveals this.

The issue of having correct doctrine is absolutely imperative and very relevant. I'm not sure about a "purity test" but my studies of fundamentalism revealed the sea change in America, which began it's moral decline. Many of the so-called religious colleges were retasked to de-emphasize the humanities and emphasize science and technology to serve the industrial revolution. During that time, parents found that when their children returned home from college, their children had fallen from the faith. Like sheep before wolves, these kids were unprepared to face the challenges against their faith.

At the time, many "Christian cults" appeared and so Christendom was faced with a fundamental question, "Who is really a Christian?" Various church groups published lists of the fundaments, you might find some on the internet listed as "The Five Fundamentals of the Christian faith." During that time parents learned the hard way the importance of Bible study and doctrine and why children needed to hear a defense of the faith from people who believed that faith and reason were compatible concepts.

Bible study is just as important today and so is Biblical education.

Understood. This is because you do not have ears to hear. I challenged you to find a verse where Jesus made a statement like you did: a child of God would do or not do X ... what did you find?

Well, it's a theme that runs through the entire New Testament. How does one distinguish the child of God from the child of the devil? How does one distinguish between a child of light and a child of darkness? How does one distinguish between those who have faith and those who only SAY they have faith? How was the tax-gatherer different than the Pharisee? What distinguished the Five wise virgins from the Five Foolish Virgins? Why does Jesus tell a parable about being like salt or set on a hill? What made the difference between the Elder son and the prodigal son?

 

[Wrangler]

Great conversation!

But I see a danger in claiming that one used the Bible as an idol.

Thereby you open yourself up to the sin of IDOLATRY by making an exception. If you study the 2C, you will find no such exception.


Do not make ... or bow down and worship idols. I am the Lord your God, and I demand all your love.
Exodus 20:4-5 (CEV)

As I attempt to dissuade us from accepting the charge of Bibliology, I need to be as precise and accurate as possible. For this purpose, I felt it necessary to establish a narrow definition.

Wow! We are working at cross purposes! The statement in red is as direct an attempt to support IDOLATRY as I've ever seen. So, this will probably be my last post to you on this subject.

"All of the previously discussed uses of scripture can tend at times toward bibliolatry—the treatment in an extreme fashion of scripture as an object of worship or a locus of supernatural power. Such treatment of scriptural texts results from the power associated with the written and spoken word. Bibliolatry can take many forms, from doctrinal emphasis on the infallibility of the literal text to overt bibliomancy, the superstitious or magical use of scripture. The answer to a problem or guidance for any occasion is often sought through scripture divination." Scripture | Encyclopedia.com

What you are in denial of is that Bibliotry can take many forms. In your desire to protect against one form, you leave yourself wide open to other forms.

See how that works? This paragraph is a direct attack on the doctrine of infallibility of scripture

With all due respect, you are reading this encylopedia entry wrong. The sin does not pivot on infallibility. The error Bible IDOLATORS make is to take literally what is meant figuratively.

The Bible is a highly figurative book and a dead giveaway that one is a Bible IDOLATOR is to take it literally. I asked this question before but you did not answer it. Do you believe there was literally a woman with God before he started Creation named Wisdom?

The issue of having correct doctrine is absolutely imperative and very relevant. I'm not sure about a "purity test"

See how you contradicted yourself from one sentence to the other? Given that there is no doctrinal purity test to gain salvation, it cannot be imperative or relevant.

I challenged you to find a verse where Jesus made a statement like you did: a child of God would do or not do X ... what did you find?

Well, it's a theme that runs through the entire New Testament.

In other words, you found not one single verse where Jesus spelled out a doctrinal purity test as you assert where he said something like a child of God would do or not do X ... Saying "the theme runs through the entire New Testament" without providing one single actual verse where he did this shows you are steeped in IDOLATRY (of doctrines).

I'll pray for you.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Great conversation!

Thanks.

Thereby you open yourself up to the sin of IDOLATRY by making an exception. If you study the 2C, you will find no such exception.

I need help again. I don't see the connection. If I were to say, "Oh, making your Bible an idol is no big deal." then I could see your point. But I'm not saying that. If someone makes an idol out of their Bible then I would certainly strongly say, "no, don't do that." I'm simply not convinced that people do such a thing.

I should clarify what I said earlier since it seems that I miscommunicated. Now that we have been introduced to the word "Bibliolatry" I know where this might end up. (I am pretty good at knowing what comes next in a series.) I'm hoping that we won't see accusations of "Bibliolatry" being tossed around in heated discussions. I would like to have a hearing wherein my posts are evaluated on their merits and scriptural support, rather than hearing something like "your beliefs are based on your bibliolatry."

Maybe I'm making it a bigger deal that it actually is, but in light of the current trend on this board. I don't think I am overly cautious.

Wow! We are working at cross purposes! The statement in red is as direct an attempt to support IDOLATRY as I've ever seen. So, this will probably be my last post to you on this subject.

Well, I'm sorry. We are certainly talking past each other. Perhaps I am skipping too many steps. If you understood the statement in red as support for idolatry then I have miscommunicated again.

Let me put a finer point on it. Remember, I am reacting to the Encyclopedia reference I previously quoted. I am so committed to the inerrancy of the Bible that I took offense at it. One of my very first posts in this thread was my clear and unambiguous statement in support of the doctrine of Biblical inerrancy. Why would I do that in THIS thread.

I am convinced that this board is currently experiencing a Satanic attack against Christianity in the form of probing questions meant to cause doubt and division. This group of people do not believe that the Bible is true in all that it says. And I am convinced that this thread, while disguised as a conversation about Bible-Idolatry is in fact a conversation about inerrancy. And the underlying assumption is "If you believe in inerrancy you are a Bible worshipper."

When I said, I want to "dissuade us from accepting the charge of Bibliolatry" the locus of my concern is laser-focused on this thread. People who believe that the Bible is valid and true, should not accept the charge of "Bibliolatry."

I'm not talking about the general case of some who might treat the Bible as an idol. My concern are the closet atheists who have snuck in among us to attack us.

If no one else has seen this, then perhaps I am wrong.

With all due respect, you are reading this encylopedia entry wrong. The sin does not pivot on infallibility. The error Bible IDOLATORS make is to take literally what is meant figuratively.

Maybe I misread it but I don't think so. The article explicitly mentions inerrancy.

The Bible is a highly figurative book and a dead giveaway that one is a Bible IDOLATOR is to take it literally. I asked this question before but you did not answer it. Do you believe there was literally a woman with God before he started Creation named Wisdom?

I respectfully disagree. You over exaggerated. The Bible is NOT highly figurative as you suggest. My answer to you is this. The Bible contains all kinds of literature from narrative to poetry. The narrative portions are to be taken literally. The fact that the Bible contains poetry or allegory doesn't mean that it is highly figurative. The majority of the Bible is narrative and epistle. Only a small fraction is allegory or endtimes narrative.

 

[amadeus]

What did that mean at the time it was written? What was "Thy Word" back then?
(I'm guessing that your capitalization is unbiblical? A misquote.) ???

Doesn't the psalmist make a god out of "Thy Word" by magnifying/exalting it ABOVE "All Thy Name"?
Is "Thy Word" really ABOVE "All Thy Name"? (the written word above the author) Blatant Bibliolatry.

/ @BarneyFife

Doesn't the following verse say that His name is equal to His Word?

Re 19:13

And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Both verses [Rev 19:13 and Psalm 138:2,]by the way, are from the KJV.

 

[Wrangler]

If I were to say, "Oh, making your Bible an idol is no big deal." then I could see your point. But I'm not saying that. If someone makes an idol out of their Bible then I would certainly strongly say, "no, don't do that." I'm simply not convinced that people do such a thing.

You keep getting stuck on words. It's NOT what they say but the devotional act that is the dead give away.

I know there is Bible IDOLATRY because I experienced it for decades. This is how IDOLATRY shows itself; people use it as an obstacle to bring people to Christ.

The 1st Bible IDOLATRY I experienced was translation. IDOLATRY of the KJV. As I said, it is unreadable to me and I blame these IDOLATORS for keeping me from reading God's word for decades!

The 2nd Bible IDOLATRY I experienced was doctrine. See the forbidden subject, OSAS, works based salvation (especially knowledge and most expectially eisegesis, gnostic interpretations of foreign languages). There is no doctrinal purity test!

The 3rd Bible IDOLATRY I experienced was Bible reading. I've read on this very forum that you are not even a Christian if you don't read the Bible. My grandmothers influenced my spiritual journey. For over 150 years they lived devout lives. Theologians, they weren't. Neither read a book in their lives!

You are in denial of the existence of Bible IDOLATRY and you are determined to prove by whatever means necessary that it does not exist - including narrowly define what idolatry even is.

 

[CadyandZoe]

You keep getting stuck on words. It's NOT what they say but the devotional act that is the dead give away.

I know there is Bible IDOLATRY because I experienced it for decades. This is how IDOLATRY shows itself; people use it as an obstacle to bring people to Christ.

The 1st Bible IDOLATRY I experienced was translation. IDOLATRY of the KJV. As I said, it is unreadable to me and I blame these IDOLATORS for keeping me from reading God's word for decades!

The 2nd Bible IDOLATRY I experienced was doctrine. See the forbidden subject, OSAS, works based salvation (especially knowledge and most expectially eisegesis, gnostic interpretations of foreign languages). There is no doctrinal purity test!

The 3rd Bible IDOLATRY I experienced was Bible reading. I've read on this very forum that you are not even a Christian if you don't read the Bible. My grandmothers influenced my spiritual journey. For over 150 years they lived devout lives. Theologians, they weren't. Neither read a book in their lives!

You are in denial of the existence of Bible IDOLATRY and you are determined to prove by whatever means necessary that it does not exist - including narrowly define what idolatry even is.

You are right. My definition is much narrower.

 

[ScottA]

UR

??

 

[ScottA]

Like a universal restoration? (UR) There's hope for you yet. - LOL

Acts 3:21 NIV
Heaven must receive him until the time comes for God to restore everything, as he promised long ago through his holy prophets.

Restoration in the biblical context does not mean saving everything, but rather replacing it...just as it is in replacing the old with the new heavens and new earth, but destroying the old with fervent heat and with fire.

Likewise "not that body" of flesh inherits the kingdom of God, but one born again of the spirit of God, while as it is written the flesh returns to the dust and is also destroyed. Which is not promised to all flesh, but only all who are born of God, meaning rather born of His spirit. Therefore, one must be born again of the spirit of God. Indeed, "many are called, but few are chosen."

 

[St. SteVen]

Restoration in the biblical context does not mean saving everything, but rather replacing it...

The proof is in the pudding I suppose.
How much of this is original?



/

 

[MatthewG]

I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap.

I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?"
The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come?

To be clear, I love the Bible and use it every day. But I know the difference between the book and the author.
In my experience, my relationship with the author is much more important than my relationship with the book.
Appropriate scriptures come to my mind all day long. Due to the work of the Spirit to quicken these things to my memory.

The Bible is not omniscient. (all knowing)
The Bible is not omnipresent. (everywhere present)
The Bible is not omnipotent. (all powerful)

The Bible does NOT love me.
It's paper and ink, maybe a leather cover. (or digital info)
That cow didn't die to pay my sin debt.

A true Bibliolator will demand chapter and verse to support my premise. - LOL

The bottom line:
Let's use the Bible to grow closer to God and each other, rather than as a weapon to destroy each other.

John 13:35 NIV
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Its all about worshipping Yahava, in spirit and truth, if possible live in peace with all mankind. Loving one as your ownself is to share wisdom and knowledge. Loving God first is the choice. A good defintion of what love looks like is found in 1 Corinthians 13.

The bible is good and useful, however babes in Christ still bicker and can fight, it’s a learning experience. Its hard if you never read the bible or know what is going on atleast until you figure it out.

My encouragement is to read and it helps in renewing the mind, towards heavenly things, and read whole chunks at a time and get an idea of the whole theme of history going on. Starting with the new testament.

 

[MatthewG]

Restoration in the biblical context does not mean saving everything, but rather replacing it...just as it is in replacing the old with the new heavens and new earth, but destroying the old with fervent heat and with fire.

Likewise "not that body" of flesh inherits the kingdom of God, but one born again of the spirit of God, while as it is written the flesh returns to the dust and is also destroyed. Which is not promised to all flesh, but only all who are born of God, meaning rather born of His spirit. Therefore, one must be born again of the spirit of God. Indeed, "many are called, but few are chosen."

That restoration you mention is intact today, God has reconciled the world unto himself through Christ, all things have been placed beneath Christ, even the last enemy death. Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets, and he fulfilled his return, and overcoming sat with his fathet in his throne. All of Gods creations have their sins paid for whether they believe or not. God had given all people the ability to choose, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, or partake of the tree of life. All people after death here are raised again, into a new spiritual body, some of condemnation, some of life. It seems to me God has been able to have unbelievers and believers all residing in the Heaven Realm, with the inside and outside of the Kingdom; with the doing away of hell, it seems the lake of fire comes from God; and their is a purging process perhaps of those who desire to come into the Kingdom, even in the afterlife though there may be some type of loss going through thay purging. God desires for all to be saved and come to him, its just their choice to do it in this lifetime of existence or in the next one to come.

 

[Behold]

The bottom line:
Let's use the Bible to grow closer to God and each other, rather than as a weapon to destroy each other.

The Bible is only a "book" to those who are unskilled in the word.

Even the Devil knows its more then just a book.. so, its always curious when a religious person speaks and writes about the world of God with obvious distaste and disrespect.


The truth is found here...

A.) The Holy bible is more than just a book.

Its Meat
Its Milk
Its Light
Its Revelation
Its the roadmap to Heaven
Its the means to find God, understand God, and we are told by the BIBLE to study it so that we are approved of God, regarding it.

 

[St. SteVen]

A.) The Holy bible is more than just a book.

Its Meat
Its Milk
Its Light
Its Revelation
Its the roadmap to Heaven
Its the means to find God, understand God, and we are told by the BIBLE to study it so that we are approved of God, regarding it.

Pity.
It's only been around since the fourth century.
And not available in every language.
And only readable by the literate.

Bibliolators like to exalt it above its utility.

/