Bibliolatry: Worship/knowledge of the book MORE than the author

[Charlie24]

The whole killing thing, whether it be animals or man in order for God to forgive doesn't sit comfortably with me.
I can forgive without a payment so surely God can.
I think the incarnation is a statement of God's love for the world.....and we murdered him.......and he knew we would but he came anyway.

The animals that were sacrificed were eaten, it's not like they were thrown away to rot.

I agree on that! There's not a single one of us who would not have done what Adam and Eve did, so saying we are suffering from a sin that we did not commit doesn't cut it with God.

Yet He provided a way for us worthless humans to live forever in His presence, if we only accept His
Son. What kind of love is that? It can't be explained!

 

[St. SteVen]

The Church doesn't represent God as a tyrant, that would be the UR!

That is the cognitive dissonance in the church that I am trying to address here.
Any King that incinerates those who refuse a free gift is a tyrant.

God is serious about giving up His Son to such cruelty and man ignoring it.

See above. Probably needed to read it twice anyway. (sink in)

 

[Charlie24]

That is the cognitive dissonance in the church that I am trying to address here.
Any King that incinerates those who refuse a free gift is a tyrant.

See above. Probably needed to read it twice anyway. (sink in)

See what I mean, it's not the Church that presents God as a tyrant, it's you, Steven.

I have never heard anyone present God in this manner but the Atheist, and the UR.

 

[ButterflyJones]

I have encountered some that I thought had fallen into this trap.

I asked them, "What would become of your faith if you put your whole library out on the curb on trash day?"
The guilty are left mostly speechless. Or, alternatively VERY angry. How come?

To be clear, I love the Bible and use it every day. But I know the difference between the book and the author.
In my experience, my relationship with the author is much more important than my relationship with the book.
Appropriate scriptures come to my mind all day long. Due to the work of the Spirit to quicken these things to my memory.

The Bible is not omniscient. (all knowing)
The Bible is not omnipresent. (everywhere present)
The Bible is not omnipotent. (all powerful)

The Bible does NOT love me.
It's paper and ink, maybe a leather cover. (or digital info)
That cow didn't die to pay my sin debt.

A true Bibliolator will demand chapter and verse to support my premise. - LOL

The bottom line:
Let's use the Bible to grow closer to God and each other, rather than as a weapon to destroy each other.

John 13:35 NIV
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Someone accused there were those who worshipped the KJV. Absurd of course however, I think the issue becomes a matter of failure. Failure to discern one who respects the KJV or version of their choice is not worshipping said version. They're respectful of the fact said version, book, is precisely what was said of it even before the New Testament was added to the Tanakh;it is the words of God.

Therein we respect that and the time that is his inspired message to those who believe in him. The Bible and God are inextricably linked. That's respect for the word divinely gifted to the world by The Word.

Furthermore, it is just good Hermeneutics, Exegesis, etc... when debating a point in scripture to use said scripture to sustain ones point.

Again, not an indicator of worship. Just good manners.


I think the issue isn't respect for scripture. Rather, the pointed effort to make that appear as a negative trait in the Christian.

As to the question about burning our Bible reference books, or setting them out as trash, that's the stuff of fools and tyrants.

It isn't proof of fealty to the Holy Spirit. It's evidence of disrespect for the history of books themselves.
If one no longer feels the need for that library, donate it to the public one so others may avail themselves of the information therein. Or, to the local Goodwill to afford just that to the less fortunate who may not be able to afford them.

Burning a Bible doesn't prove someone worships the Holy Spirit. It proves they have no respect for the journey books and their history of oppression have made beyond the censorship intent of yesteryear. Further, it examples unawareness of the fact that in America to this day there is a Banned Books list. And if one checks out certain titles from the local public library their name is flagged to the attention of the Federal authorities.


People who would burn books would burn people who read them. History shows that fact. Let's not repeat even half of it.


God didn't inspire the Bible so others could say, if we love him we'll trash it.

 

[quietthinker]

We will judge angels and I believe a host of many things. If we judge anything about God, it will be His Mercy and Grace, and the Love that He has bestowed upon us.

I think so and I think our judgement of the fallen angels will be, you didn't care for God's methods of forgiveness and still don't. In fact, I think that will be as obvious as a train smash to the whole Universe

 

[quietthinker]

The animals that were sacrificed were eaten, it's not like they were thrown away to rot.

I agree on that! There's not a single one of us who would not have done what Adam and Eve did, so saying we are suffering from a sin that we did not commit doesn't cut it with God.

Yet He provided a way for us worthless humans to live forever in His presence, if we only accept His
Son. What kind of love is that? It can't be explained!

I don't think we are worthless, in fact I think we are so valuable to God he is prepared to give his life rather than have us die.
......and as far as our situation goes because of Adam's fall, I'm persuaded God understands this.....and doesn't hold it against us anymore than we hold the limitations of a Downs syndrome person or one born with fetal alcohol syndrome against them.

 

[ButterflyJones]

There are steps to be followed to determine sound doctrine.

Sad to say that some doctrine, is man-made, Scripture must interpret Scripture.

An excellent example of man-made doctrine is the UR, there is no Scripture interpreting Scripture.

Only Scripture taken out of context, which is very easy to prove.

UR?

 

[ButterflyJones]

The Holy Spirit teaches us through His written word. It is our only source of revelation.

How dare you! ;) Hard to imagine in a Christians forum we'd find those opposed to the Bible.

 

[Charlie24]

I don't think we are worthless, in fact I think we are so valuable to God he is prepared to give his life rather than have us die.
......and as far as our situation goes because of Adam's fall, I'm persuaded God understands this.....and doesn't hold it against us anymore than we hold the limitations of a Downs syndrome person or one born with fetal alcohol syndrome against them.

I must be special to God in some way, considering all that He has done for me. Including all who are His.

I agree with the Apostle Paul on all that he said, but one thing, Paul said he was the chief of sinners, I disagree, it is Charlie24 that is the chief of sinners and I will forever be in His debt for not being judged for those sins. What I truly deserve.

 

[Charlie24]

UR?

Universal Restoration, the belief that all who go to the Lake of Fire will one day be released and all of mankind will be saved.

 

[ButterflyJones]

Universal Restoration, the belief that all who go to the Lake of Fire will one day be released and all of mankind will be saved.

Thank you.

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:

That is the cognitive dissonance in the church that I am trying to address here.
Any King that incinerates those who refuse a free gift is a tyrant.

See what I mean, it's not the Church that presents God as a tyrant, it's you, Steven.

I have never heard anyone present God in this manner but the Atheist, and the UR.

Does this mean that you don't understand the term "cognitive dissonance"?

You are agreeing, in essence, that a God that incinerates those who refuse a free gift is worthy of trust and worship.
And that any that would identify that as tyranny is wrong. Hello?

 

[Charlie24]

St. SteVen said:

That is the cognitive dissonance in the church that I am trying to address here.
Any King that incinerates those who refuse a free gift is a tyrant.

Does this mean that you don't understand the term "cognitive dissonance"?

You are agreeing, in essence, that a God that incinerates those who refuse a free gift is worthy of trust and worship.
And that any that would identify that as tyranny is wrong. Hello?

I sure don't know what a "cognitive dissonance" refers to, I haven't a clue.

So coming from my good friend, Steven, I'm sure I would not agree! lol

Seriously, Steven, it's not proper for a born-again believer to refer to God in that manner.

I know your throwing that remark back at us, as though we are guilty, but that does not make it proper to say.

I wish you would refrain from using that statement.

 

[St. SteVen]

I sure don't know what a "cognitive dissonance" refers to, I haven't a clue.

So coming from my good friend, Steven, I'm sure I would not agree! lol

Seriously, Steven, it's not proper for a born-again believer to refer to God in that manner.

I know your throwing that remark back at us, as though we are guilty, but that does not make it proper to say.

I wish you would refrain from using that statement.

Cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes.

On one hand you hope that UR is right, on the other hand you support a view that doesn't fit your heartfelt hope for humankind.
You are quite uncomfortable (for obvious reasons) with me confronting you with your cognitive dissonance.
And you want to blame me, as if I am out of line. (sigh)

 

[Charlie24]

Cognitive dissonance is the mental discomfort that results from holding two conflicting beliefs, values, or attitudes.

On one hand you hope that UR is right, on the other hand you support a view that doesn't fit your heartfelt hope for humankind.
You are quite uncomfortable (for obvious reasons) with me confronting you with your cognitive dissonance.
And you want to blame me, as if I am out of line. (sigh)

You're making a mountain out of a mole hill!

I can separate my feeling from the revealed Word of God.

In other words, what I want or wish for, I will not allow to interfere with what God has said.

Paul gave us an example of this. He said that he wished he would be cursed of God if it meant his countrymen (the Jews) could be saved.

We have to have a point drawn in the sand that we will not cross when it comes to God's Word.

 

[St. SteVen]

I wish you would refrain from using that statement.

I wish you would refrain from claiming that UR is unbiblical.
Looks like neither of us will get what we want from each other.
Unless you are threatening me. Then the "Christians" will win.
The truth is too much to bear.

 

[St. SteVen]

We have to have a point drawn in the sand that we will not cross when it comes to God's Word.

I agree completely.

The really great thing about lines drawn in sand...

... they can easily be moved.

 

[Charlie24]

I wish you would refrain from claiming that UR is unbiblical.
Looks like neither of us will get what we want from each other.
Unless you are threatening me. Then the "Christians" will win.
The truth is too much to bear.

LOL, I'm in no way threatening you, Brother! I just want you to show me the money, lol.

Plainly show me proof of your doctrine without the flamboyant speech and fair words.

 

[St. SteVen]

I can separate my feeling from the revealed Word of God.

Like a robotic unemotional understanding of a text? The hard facts?

My soul was bulldozed by the church. Still recovering.

 

[St. SteVen]

LOL, I'm in no way threatening you, Brother! I just want you to show me the money, lol.

Plainly show me proof of your doctrine without the flamboyant speech and fair words.

Salvation hangs on the acts of two men. Pretty simple really. Done deal.

Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.