Bible alone!

[theefaith]

Your problem is every time you see 'church' in scripture you instantly translate it as 'Catholic church'. Stop doing that and your eyes will open. The true church is the sum total of all genuine believers with their various spiritual gifts. It's not an organization that men move in and out of.

Not physical? not visible? Not a real kingdom with a visible ruler? Seek the first the kingdom, how? Can’t see it

 

[Ferris Bueller]

rom 4:6 refers to psalm 1:3 faith and baptism

It refers to Abraham. Read the passage.
Abraham believed God and it was credited it to him as righteousness. No works, no baptisms, nothing. Just his faith. Then later, we see that faith in Abraham in the offering up of Isaac at which time he was justified by his works. He was made righteous by his faith apart from works. He was validated as having that faith by what he did.

 

[David H.]

the church is a kingdom with authority from Christ having the responsibility to defend the sacred deposit of faith Jn 16:13 eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

The Holy Ghost is the one that defends the sacred word. Even the verses you point to do not say "the church"....

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:5 Not sure why you used this verse?

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:3

Notice in the last verse it does not say delivered unto the "Church" but to the saints. the saints empowered by the Holy Ghost are the ones that protect the word of God. The saints are PEOPLE, not a man made institution, and earthly kingdom.

Each of us who have the Holy Ghost have this unction, discernment of the Spirit, which allows us to see what is true and false this authority is not relegated to a priestly sect and a building in Rome, but given to all of us who have the Holy Ghost.

All you are doing is fighting for an earthly kingdom and trying to place that Kingdom in the Role that the Holy Ghost is supposed to partake in in the lives of the believers. this is the basis of Nicolaitanism. All you are doing is trying to walk by power and might instead of by the Spirit.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Not physical? not visible? Not a real kingdom with a visible ruler? Seek the first the kingdom, how? Can’t see it

No, not visibly organized. All believers and Christ himself are very real, physical persons. What we are not is a visible organization.

 

[theefaith]

Jn 16:13 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Jn 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

So we read a couple of verses and come to our own conclusion. One conclusion that "Christians" often come is the belief that they become perfect because they have the Holy Spirit. The Lord is the Truth and His Holy Spirit cannot teach error, but that doesn't mean we are perfect. We are forgiven, not perfect.

Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Paul - the converted follower of Jesus Christ via His Holy Spirit - explained that he was "doing" (present tense as of the time of his writing as a converted follower of Jesus Christ) very thing that he did not want to do and even hated. So this concept of thinking that once we are Christians we can not make an error is a teaching in "error".

John also covered this mistake:

1 Jn 1:8 f we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Note again that John wrote "we have" which is again a present tense at the time when John - also a known follower of Jesus Christ - wrtoe those words - and "we" in the verse means he included himself in that statement. Therefore John was not saying that he did not have sin at the time he wrote the verse. Yet the verse shows that John was aware that some were deceiving themselves into thinking that all they did was righteous (all unrighteousness is sin). They were in fact deceiving themselves if they believed that, and they deceived themselves because the truth (Jesus Christ via His Holy Spirit) was not in them!!

Therefore anyone saying they can not make an error does not have the Holy Spirit of God in them - according to the Bible.


Honestly - this becomes sooooooo very obvious if you are in fact a believer and thus seek the Lord Jesus Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is the case because He reproves those He loves - us believers who do indeed seek Him!

Rev 3:19 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

The Lord said through Isaiah - "come reason with me" - and one of the things you do when you truly come to know the Lord is reason with Him, because we have our thoughts. When you do actually reason with Him, exchanging words back and forth with Him, you quickly find out that His thoughts are not your thoughts and He is always right!! So it is a bit hard on your pride and that thinking of ours that we are prefect. He is perfect, not us!! Any real believer understand that, so obviously you are both deceiving yourself and don't have the truth in you (Jesus Christ) if you think the church can not make an error. In fact that church or member of that that church that thinks that ways does not know Jesus Christ - period. John was correct in writing what the Holy Spirit told him. But the Holy Spirit told them that if we believe we have not sin then we are deceiving ourselves - an you understand that "all unrighteousness is sin" and that means any error - like thinking we can not make an error.

I am counted as being righteous because of my faith, not because of my good works. That doesn't mean I don't try to do the right thing. But trying to do the right thing means actually seeking the Lord and listening to Him. I need to be much better at that too. :)

Sin is not the same as teaching
The apostles are not impeccable but cannot teach error or Christ would be the author of error Lk 10:16

 

[theefaith]

Jn 16:13 “But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.

Jn 8:32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”

So we read a couple of verses and come to our own conclusion. One conclusion that "Christians" often come is the belief that they become perfect because they have the Holy Spirit. The Lord is the Truth and His Holy Spirit cannot teach error, but that doesn't mean we are perfect. We are forgiven, not perfect.

Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

Paul - the converted follower of Jesus Christ via His Holy Spirit - explained that he was "doing" (present tense as of the time of his writing as a converted follower of Jesus Christ) very thing that he did not want to do and even hated. So this concept of thinking that once we are Christians we can not make an error is a teaching in "error".

John also covered this mistake:

1 Jn 1:8 f we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

Note again that John wrote "we have" which is again a present tense at the time when John - also a known follower of Jesus Christ - wrtoe those words - and "we" in the verse means he included himself in that statement. Therefore John was not saying that he did not have sin at the time he wrote the verse. Yet the verse shows that John was aware that some were deceiving themselves into thinking that all they did was righteous (all unrighteousness is sin). They were in fact deceiving themselves if they believed that, and they deceived themselves because the truth (Jesus Christ via His Holy Spirit) was not in them!!

Therefore anyone saying they can not make an error does not have the Holy Spirit of God in them - according to the Bible.


Honestly - this becomes sooooooo very obvious if you are in fact a believer and thus seek the Lord Jesus Christ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is the case because He reproves those He loves - us believers who do indeed seek Him!

Rev 3:19 ‘Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; therefore be zealous and repent.

The Lord said through Isaiah - "come reason with me" - and one of the things you do when you truly come to know the Lord is reason with Him, because we have our thoughts. When you do actually reason with Him, exchanging words back and forth with Him, you quickly find out that His thoughts are not your thoughts and He is always right!! So it is a bit hard on your pride and that thinking of ours that we are prefect. He is perfect, not us!! Any real believer understand that, so obviously you are both deceiving yourself and don't have the truth in you (Jesus Christ) if you think the church can not make an error. In fact that church or member of that that church that thinks that ways does not know Jesus Christ - period. John was correct in writing what the Holy Spirit told him. But the Holy Spirit told them that if we believe we have not sin then we are deceiving ourselves - an you understand that "all unrighteousness is sin" and that means any error - like thinking we can not make an error.

I am counted as being righteous because of my faith, not because of my good works. That doesn't mean I don't try to do the right thing. But trying to do the right thing means actually seeking the Lord and listening to Him. I need to be much better at that too. :)

still need the Christian ritual of baptism to put on Christ
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

 

[theefaith]

The scriptures I have won't lead me to that?

it’s a holy pure faith story what are you afraid of, there’s nothing catholic about it, it’s Old Testament book of Daniel

I’m not asking you to accept 2 Maccabees “it is a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins ( temporal punishment due to sin)

 

[theefaith]

Those to whom the gift and calling of doing that has been given. And it's not the Catholic church. It's not an organization. It's various individual believers in the body of Christ gifted by God to gather the books of the Bible together for us. You won't get this because you think the body of Christ is the organization called the Catholic church.

by what authority?

the apostles have authority from Christ to teach the nations

 

[theefaith]

Those to whom the gift and calling of doing that has been given. And it's not the Catholic church. It's not an organization. It's various individual believers in the body of Christ gifted by God to gather the books of the Bible together for us. You won't get this because you think the body of Christ is the organization called the Catholic church.

spiritual anarchy

 

[theefaith]

It refers to Abraham. Read the passage.
Abraham believed God and it was credited it to him as righteousness. No works, no baptisms, nothing. Just his faith. Then later, we see that faith in Abraham in the offering up of Isaac at which time he was justified by his works. He was made righteous by his faith apart from works. He was validated as having that faith by what he did.

the tree is the cross (faith) rivers of water (baptism) bringing forth fruit Jn 15:1

 

[theefaith]

The Holy Ghost is the one that defends the sacred word. Even the verses you point to do not say "the church"....

Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. John 16:13

One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:5 Not sure why you used this verse?

Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. Jude 1:3

Notice in the last verse it does not say delivered unto the "Church" but to the saints. the saints empowered by the Holy Ghost are the ones that protect the word of God. The saints are PEOPLE, not a man made institution, and earthly kingdom.

Each of us who have the Holy Ghost have this unction, discernment of the Spirit, which allows us to see what is true and false this authority is not relegated to a priestly sect and a building in Rome, but given to all of us who have the Holy Ghost.

All you are doing is fighting for an earthly kingdom and trying to place that Kingdom in the Role that the Holy Ghost is supposed to partake in in the lives of the believers. this is the basis of Nicolaitanism. All you are doing is trying to walk by power and might instead of by the Spirit.

the apostles are the saints

 

[theefaith]

No, not visibly organized. All believers and Christ himself are very real, physical persons. What we are not is a visible organization.

Matthew 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Matthew 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

You seem to miss it every time when I say the church is not visible as an organization and that you can only see the church in it's individual members as they walk in obedience to God.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the tree is the cross (faith) rivers of water (baptism) bringing forth fruit Jn 15:1

No, the vine is Christ (John 15:1). We are the branches. The water is the Holy Spirit (Titus 3:5).

 

[Ferris Bueller]

spiritual anarchy

We recognize people among us who have the calling and gift of spiritual ministry. We are not in rebellion against those who have been ordained by God to fill specific offices in the body of Christ.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

by what authority?

God's authority.
Those of us who have the Spirit within us can tell when something or someone is not of God:

"...his sheep follow him because they know his voice. 5But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will flee from him because they do not recognize his voice." John 10:4-5​

This is why we do not follow the Catholic church. We don't recognize it's voice compared to the voice of the Holy Spirit within us.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

the apostles have authority from Christ to teach the nations

Yes, and they did their job and their voices ring out to this day from the pages of our Bibles. Ordained spiritual leaders through the centuries have taught us what they taught in our Bibles.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

it’s a holy pure faith story what are you afraid of, there’s nothing catholic about it, it’s Old Testament book of Daniel

I really don't care about it and am not curious at all what it says.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Not physical?

The heirs of the kingdom are real, physical people.

not visible?

You see the kingdom wherever a person is doing kingdom things:

"But if I drive out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you." Luke 11:20​

Not a real kingdom with a visible ruler?

We are waiting for the return of our very real, and physical Ruler.

"A man of noble birth went to a distant country to lay claim to his kingship and then return." Luke 19:12​

Seek the first the kingdom, how? Can’t see it

Seek it's righteous principles.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Specific

Like it's teaching that justification has to be secured over and over and over again. And through various works.