Babylon

[Jerry Huerta]

The saints in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) in Revelation 11:7, same beast making war and overcoming the (Two Witnesses) the saints being overcome isn't the church as you suggest

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

First, the event of Revelation 11 transpires at the event when the beast rises out of the abyss, which is for “one hour,”

Revelation 17
12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast.

When the seventh king’s reign comes to an end, the beast in Revelation 17 has “one hour” to form an alliance with the ten kings to make war with Christ at his return,

The beast in Revelation 13 has power for 42 months to persecute the Church,

Revelation 13
5 And the beast was given a mouth uttering haughty and blasphemous words, and it was allowed to exercise authority for forty-two months…
7 Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation,

Obviously, Revelation 13 and 17 are chronological because the 42 months must commence prior the “last hour” of the beast.

Since Revelation 13 and 17 cannot be chronologically reversed then the ten kings gain their crowns with the rise of the beast and lose them when the beast suffers its deadly wound, depicted in Revelation 17. They take up their crowns again with the rise of the beast, who suffers the deadly wound,

Revelation 13
3 One of its heads seemed to have a mortal wound, but its mortal wound was healed, and the whole earth marveled as they followed the beast.

Historicism pays attention to the details, which makes the two witnesses, the 144k and the great multitude when Christ returns.

The 42 months represent the 1260 years the papacy persecuted the saints, before Protestantism wounded it.

 

[Davy]

You still don’t get it. The passage, Revelation 17:9-11, is a riddle that most aren’t going to get, and you’re one of them.

Nah... you got that idea backwards.

I well understand the Rev.17:8-14 Scripture because God's Word reveals that the final Antichrist will be the "dragon" himself, which is another one of Satan's titles. That is who ASCENDS OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT for the future "great tribulation". You were told that by Christ in Rev.12:7 forward, and Rev.17:8 and Rev.17:11 is pointing to that Biblical fact again. You simply are not... listening to Christ in His Word about that.

Lord Jesus showed you in Revelation 11:7 and told you this too, with that beast ascending out of the bottomless pit to kill God's "two witnesses" in Jerusalem at the end just prior to Christ's future return.

So you do not believe there is any such beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit, huh?

Why do you reject God's written Word on that point? Who has bewitched you against that?

 

[Davy]

100% False, (The Saints) represent the (Two Witnesses) in Jerusalem who will lay dead in the street for 3.5 days

(The Saints) in Revelation 13:7 are the (Two Witnesses) in Revelation 11:7, same beast making war and overcoming the (Two Witnesses) the saints being overcome isn't the church on earth as you falsely suggest

Jerusalem will be the future camp of the (Two Witnesses) Jerusalem is the beloved city

"No" the Church won't be gathered in Jerusalem, as you falsely claim "The Saints" represents the entire church on earth, 100% False

Jerusalem Will Be The Future Camp Of The (Two Witnesses)

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

("The Saints" Represents The "Two Witnesses")

Revelation 11:7KJV
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.

Revelation 13:7KJV
7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

What kind of Church do you attend?

I want to know so I don't ever make the mistake of stepping into one of that kind of church, which really is not a true Church, but a 'beth-aven' (house of vanity).

 

[Davy]

You still don’t get it. The passage, Revelation 17:9-11, is a riddle that most aren’t going to get, and you’re one of them.

Again, for the challenged, the eighth king is the one that WAS, AND IS NOT,

Revelation 17​

11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction.​

NOPE! The 8th king comes AFTER... the 7th king. You show you can't even count! Duh... the number 8 comes AFTER.... the number 7. It's as simple as that.

The 6th beast king was in Apostle John's day, and the 7th beast king had not yet come. That 7th beast king still... has NOT yet come to this day. That 7th one WILL BE the final Antichrist of this present world in the FINAL GENERATION on earth that will see Christ's future coming. And Apostle Paul in 2 Thessalonians 2 showed that Christ will destroy that 7th beast king with the brightness of His coming, which means the last day of this present world.

So again, WHY... do you reject that Revelation 17:8 phrase about that beast ascending out of the bottomless pit?

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Rev 17:11
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
KJV

His name "Apollyon" is from the Greek word for PERDITION. That is SATAN himself described as that "king" and angel of the bottomless pit.


WHY... are you against that simple Bible Scripture revelation by Christ Jesus?

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Nah... you got that idea backwards.

I well understand the Rev.17:8-14 Scripture because God's Word reveals that the final Antichrist will be the "dragon" himself, which is another one of Satan's titles. That is who ASCENDS OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT for the future "great tribulation". You were told that by Christ in Rev.12:7 forward, and Rev.17:8 and Rev.17:11 is pointing to that Biblical fact again. You simply are not... listening to Christ in His Word about that.

Lord Jesus showed you in Revelation 11:7 and told you this too, with that beast ascending out of the bottomless pit to kill God's "two witnesses" in Jerusalem at the end just prior to Christ's future return.

So you do not believe there is any such beast that will ascend out of the bottomless pit, huh?

Why do you reject God's written Word on that point? Who has bewitched you against that?

How was Satan before Domitian? You still haven't answer that. Satan was before Abraham. Such nonsense!

 

[Davy]

How was Satan before Domitian? You still haven't answer that. Satan was before Abraham. Such nonsense!

Answer my question.

WHY... do you REJECT that Bible Scripture about Satan as that beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit?

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Answer my question.

WHY... do you REJECT that Bible Scripture about Satan as that beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit?

Of course, the eighth head rises out of the abyss and is one of the five that were, but are not, at the time of the sixth king. That means it's not the seventh that rises, but one of the five that had fallen. It's one of the five that had fallen that rises from the abyss.

How was Satan before Domitian? You still haven't answer that. Satan was before Abraham. Such nonsense!

 

[covenantee]

No, it failed to educate you. It reveals you don’t even know what a Protestant Reformer is.

If you don't believe Wiki, why did you quote it?

Or have you already forgotten that you did?

 

[Jerry Huerta]

If you don't believe Wiki, why did you quote it?

Or have you already forgotten that you did?

Premillennialists were numbered with the reformers, what don't you get?

 

[covenantee]

Premillennialists were numbered with the reformers, what don't you get?

I believe Wiki over you, every time.

 

[Jerry Huerta]

I believe Wiki over you, every time.

That only helps when one knows how to read.

 

[covenantee]

That only helps when one knows how to read.

Do cultists know?

 

[Jerry Huerta]

Do cultists know?

Obviously, you can't, so you answered yourself.
And Cultists ask silly questions.

 

[The Light]

Wow! How you CONTRADICT YOURSELF!

You can't have it both ways, either Lord Jesus is The Morning Star, or Nimrod is The Morning Star, because the 'morning star' is what that Hebrew word 'heylel' means!

I can see how some brethren get confused about God calling the devil the 'morning star' (heylel) there in Isaiah 14:12,

LOL. You're kidding right. I don't want both ways. Nimrod is the day star.

It's seems you want it 3 ways......Lucifer, morning star and day star.

Yes, there are some that translate it morning star..............but Jesus is the morning star. Nimrod is the day star.

but your Biblical illiteracy truly takes the cake on that.

Then why is it that I continually prove you wrong...........time after time after time after time................................................................................

I believe your false conclusion about Biblical illiteracy is the result of blindness.

You still have failed to address how your complete end times scenario falls apart based on the FACT that the stars fall from heaven AFTER the great tribulation which proves beyond any doubt that you have no clue what you are talking about. That's what Biblical illiteracy will get you.

Isa 14:12
12 “How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star (Hebrew heylel), son of Dawn!
ESV

There's the English Standard Version Bible that many use. The ASV, Lexham English Bible, The Message Bible, New Heart English Bible, New Living Translation, World English Bible, Young's Literal Translation, even the NIV, they all translate to the idea of 'morning star' instead of "Lucifer" with that translation of Hebrew heylel.

As I said heylel is not a proper name. So for you to be claiming "Lucifer" is correct is baloney. Why would they grab a Latin word that is not a proper name and make it a proper name. And why would they use a Latin word when they are translating Hebrew to English.

Your conclusions are continually in error. You haven't even figured out the Lord is coming in an hour that you think not.

God's Message there is how when Lucifer first rebelled in the 'old world', he wanted to be The GOD and worshiped in place of GOD. And that also means the devil wanted to be as The Morning Star, i.e,. GOD The Son. It's because Jesus is... GOD and The Morning Star is one of His Titles per Revelation 22. Thus God was mocking Lucifer there, using Lucifer's own claim against him.

Oh so God is mocking Lucifer by using a title that is Jesus'? Nah. This isn't about Lucifer, it is about the day star, Nimrod.

Nimrod is currently worshipped as God ALL OVER THE EARTH. But you don't understand that. He wanted to be like the most high ascending above the clouds as the SUN.

Also, is Lucifer a man? Is Lucifer cast out of the grave? Why are so many of your Biblical conclusions in error?

Isaiah 14
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?

18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.

19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.


So if Lucifer a man????????????????

 

[covenantee]

Obviously, you can't, so you answered yourself.
And Cultists ask silly questions.

You're just way too sharp for me today.

There are no premils in the Wiki list.

Your cultic faux futurized historicism is as dispensational as cultic dispensational futurism.

You've been "cultivated" by Darby & Scofield.

 

[Davy]

Of course, the eighth head rises out of the abyss and is one of the five that were, but are not, at the time of the sixth king. That means it's not the seventh that rises, but one of the five that had fallen. It's one of the five that had fallen that rises from the abyss.

How was Satan before Domitian? You still haven't answer that. Satan was before Abraham. Such nonsense!

Again NO... the Revelation 17:8 verse is pointing directly... to... the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit, and goes into perdition.

And that is also who that Revelation 17:11 verse is speaking of.

I ask again then, WHY... do you REJECT those Scriptures I quoted that reveal Satan as that beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit??


Here, I will post those Scriptures here again...

Rev 17:8
8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.
KJV

Rev 17:11
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

(And by the way, that Greek word ek (NT:1537) for that above "of" is a Greek preposition pointing to origin, but not in the sense that 8th beast will literally be born from... one of the past history beast kings. Instead it is being used to point to how that 8th beast king is in the LIKENESS of those previous 7 beast kings. And what do I mean by that likeness?

I mean the main attribute ALL those beast kings have in common, which is to attempt to establish a one-world beast kingdom on earth in place of God's Kingdom. Now if you cannot grasp that, then you might want to go back to the start at the Book of Genesis, and re-read your whole Bible, because that has been Satan's plan from the beginning of this world, and it is also what he tried to do when he first fell in that old world.

Rev 11:7
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
KJV

Rev 9:11
11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
KJV

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No Jesus will be King during the Millennium

No? You are an Amill and believe that the Millennium began at His resurrection and He has been King since then, right?

The souls sleep until the future judgement, then they are destroyed annihilated

Is this you talking or is this a quote from someone else? Something isn't right here. How can you be an Amill and believe in soul sleep? You don't believe Jesus is reigning in heaven with the souls of the dead in Christ?

The old and new testaments are different covenants, God still has a future plan for national Israel

What plan is that exactly?

Bodies aren't changed, we live spiritually for eternity

What? Is the following passage in your Bible?

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

You forget there is purgatory, we pray for the dead to enter eternal life

My mind is boggled. You are a Catholic?

That is all symbolic, and you want to make it literal

Once again it's symbolic

Symbolic

It's all symbolic, just as the beast and two witnesses are symbolic

This is totally different from anything you've said before, so what is going on here?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Are you deaf and blind? I’ve said repeatedly Christ is not reigning as king now.

You must be dumb (not able to speak) because you never said that specifically before. You must be spiritually blind to not believe that He is reigning as King now because scripture says that we have been delivered from spiritual darkness and translated into His kingdom (Colossians 1:12-13) and that His kingdom does not come with observation (Luke 17:20) and is not of this world (John 18:36).

The scriptures like Matthew 25:31 confirm he returns to reign on his throne.

He returns to judge on His throne. That does not mean He is not on His throne now. Is He not your King right now? He's mine.

Typical paganism, trying to make parables and visions support pagan dogma. The object of Lazarus’ parable is that there is no second chance when we die, not that that wicked are immortal and go to hell when they die. How do the condemned put on immortality? How silly.

It's silly for you to call a story that refers to real people and places a parable. Jesus's parables did not contain references to real people and places. In His parables He referenced fictitious people and places to illustrate things about real people and places.

Regardless, Jesus portrayed dead people as having consciousness in Luke 16:19-31. Why would He do that if they don't actually have consciousness?

When scripture talks about putting on immortality, it talks about the body (1 Corinthians 15) being changed to put on immortality at the last trumpet when Jesus returns. Where does it say that the change that takes place at the last trumpet involves the soul and spirit putting on immortality at that time?

The transfiguration is a vision, it portrays a future scene with Christ. Again, the saints put on immortality when Christ returns.

LOL. Nonsense. Peter, James and John were there with Jesus in real time and He was transfigured before them. Just before that happened, He was talking to Moses and Elijah. Your attempts to twist the scripture to fit your doctrine are ridiculous.

Again, what would souls be doing under the alter? That’s not the object of the fifth seal; it’s to warn us of a final judgment, not that the saints are in heaven.

Them being under the altar is symbolic, but the point is that John saw the souls of dead martyrs and portrayed them as being conscious. Why would he do that if they are not actually conscious? To fool us into thinking so?

As, for Mark 12:26-27, such pagan notions would make the OT authors liars. For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, according to Solomon. I believe Soloman, not pagans. Abraham died and puts on immortality with all the saints when Christ returns, according to 1 Corinthians 15.

You are not addressing what the text actually says. You just dismiss scripture without even looking at it. Tell me, is God the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob right now, keeping in mind that He is not the God of the dead, but of the living? Yes or no?

Your problem, like all misinformed believers, is that you’ve imbibed pagan doctrines and have mortals in heaven.

That is scriptural and you're doing NOTHING to back up your view with scripture. So, your unbiblical opinions and claims mean NOTHING.

There can be no doubt that the scriptures uphold we put on immortality when Christ returns, so if the saints are in heaven now it is without immortality. You have mortals in heaven!!!!!!!

We put on BODILY immortality when Christ returns. Why do you constantly ignore context? Show me where Paul said we put on spiritual immortality when Christ returns in addition to bodily immortality.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Obviously, you can't, so you answered yourself.
And Cultists ask silly questions.

What is the name of your cult which denies the current Kingship of Jesus and also denies that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob right now since you believe they are completely dead and God is not the God of the dead, but of the living?

 

[Truth7t7]

No? You are an Amill and believe that the Millennium began at His resurrection and He has been King since then, right?


Is this you talking or is this a quote from someone else? Something isn't right here. How can you be an Amill and believe in soul sleep? You don't believe Jesus is reigning in heaven with the souls of the dead in Christ?


What plan is that exactly?


What? Is the following passage in your Bible?

1 Corinthians 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.


My mind is boggled. You are a Catholic?


This is totally different from anything you've said before, so what is going on here?

Lol, That was easy, dropped the bait and you swallowed it hook, line, and sinker

Of course I don't believe that garbage, but it was all smiles reading your response, little humor is a good thing

"Gotcha"!