Another simple disproof of Amil: No more sea

[shilohsfoal]

Do your parents know you are online?

My father knows where I am always.

 

[WPM]

My teacher is Christ.
The world isn't destroyed till 1000 years after Christ comes.Heres my proof.

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

Do you believe in corroboration for your speculations? Do you believe in interpreting Scripture with Scripture?

 

[WPM]

The Sabbath is the seventh day.
Mathew 12:8
For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

The Sabbath approaches.Its at the door.The Lord will finish his work and rest on the Sabbath.

Luke 13:32
He told them, "Go and tell that fox, 'Listen! I am driving out demons and healing today and tomorrow, and on the third day I will finish my work.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 

[shilohsfoal]

Do you believe in corroboration for your speculations? Do you believe in interpreting Scripture with Scripture?

You don't believe Christ?
You question the revelation of Jesus Christ?

Ezekiel 37-39 covers the first resurrection and the 1000 years before Gog ,Ethiopia and Persia attempt to overthrow the kingdom of Israel.
Fire comes down from heaven from God and destroys them just like revelation says.
Here is Gog being destroyed by God in ezekiel


22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.


You should study to show thyself approved of God.Your not doing a very good job so far.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Which is a shadow of things to come.

 

[WPM]

You don't believe Christ?
You question the revelation of Jesus Christ?

Ezekiel 37-39 covers the first resurrection and the 1000 years before Gog ,Ethiopia and Persia attempt to overthrow the kingdom of Israel.
Fire comes down from heaven from God and destroys them just like revelation says.
Here is Gog being destroyed by God in ezekiel


22 And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.


You should study to show thyself approved of God.Your not doing a very good job so far.

You come to some absurd conclusion and are careful to avoid simple questions. That is because you espouse false teaching. You cannot answer straight questions.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You come to some absurd conclusion and are careful to avoid simple questions. That is because you espouse false teaching. You cannot answer straight questions.

Now you say revelation is a false teachings because it shows Christ reigning on earth for 1000 years before Gog attempts to overthrow his kingdom.

Well,I showed you the proof in revelation and you asked for other scripture and I provided that also and the best you can do it says it's a false teachings.

You carefully skip the parts of scripture you don't like so you can teach your lies.When confronted with the truth ,you deny the word of God saying it's false.Well it's right there in revelation 20 if you ever want to learn the truth.

 

[shilohsfoal]

You come to some absurd conclusion and are careful to avoid simple questions. That is because you espouse false teaching. You cannot answer straight questions.

Here is the truth again.You can except it or you can deny it.But you can't change it.Christ comes and raises those who died for their testimony of him,and they live and reign with Christ in his kingdom for 1000 years before fire comes down from heaven from God and destroys Gog at the end of the 1000 years.If you say that is absurd then you are rejecting the revelation of Jesus Christ.


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


Ezekiel chapters 37-39 corresponds to these things.

 

[WPM]

Now you say revelation is a false teachings because it shows Christ reigning on earth for 1000 years before Gog attempts to overthrow his kingdom.

Well,I showed you the proof in revelation and you asked for other scripture and I provided that also and the best you can do it says it's a false teachings.

You carefully skip the parts of scripture you don't like so you can teach your lies.When confronted with the truth ,you deny the word of God saying it's false.Well it's right there in revelation 20 if you ever want to learn the truth.

That is not so! Where in Rev 20 does it show Christ reigning on earth for 1000 years? Give me Scripture please.

 

[WPM]

Here is the truth again.You can except it or you can deny it.But you can't change it.Christ comes and raises those who died for their testimony of him,and they live and reign with Christ in his kingdom for 1000 years before fire comes down from heaven from God and destroys Gog at the end of the 1000 years.If you say that is absurd then you are rejecting the revelation of Jesus Christ.


20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

21 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.


Ezekiel chapters 37-39 corresponds to these things.

Show me where Ezekiel 37-39 mentions some supposed future sin-curse goat-infested death-blighted millennium?

Then can you demonstrate the correspondence between that and Rev 20?

 

[shilohsfoal]

That is not so! Where in Rev 20 does it show Christ reigning on earth for 1000 years? Give me Scripture please.

I gave you the entire chapter that shows the resurected saints reigning with Christ on earth for 1000 years before Gog encircles them and fire comes down from heaven and destroys Gog.

You don't comprehend the word of God.
I will give you the verses showing the resurected saints reigning with Christ and Gog encircling them upon earth ,but if you couldnt see it by now your blind.

Revelation 20

King James Version

​

20
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not aai until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 Ad when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

 

[shilohsfoal]

Show me where Ezekiel 37-39 mentions some supposed future sin-curse goat-infested death-blighted millennium?

Then can you demonstrate the correspondence between that and Rev 20?

Your the one says the resurected saints in Ezekiel 37 are sin-curse goat infested death-blighted.
The word of God says they come up out of their graves and are a peaceful people who dwell without walls and are completely safe.God says they are his people and they know him.

They live in the land of Israel which which is recoverd from war.They live there from the time they are resurrected in chapter 37 till Gog comes against them in chapter 38 and continue to live there after Gog has been destroyed in chapter 39 .They live there even to later chapters when the river of life is flowing from Jerusalem to the dead sea.

PS
After they come out of their graves in chapter 37,scripture shows they are perfectly safe.Scripture does not show any of them dying a second death after their resurrection.

 

[WPM]

I gave you the entire chapter that shows the resurected saints reigning with Christ on earth for 1000 years before Gog encircles them and fire comes down from heaven and destroys Gog.

You don't comprehend the word of God.

Not true. Which actual verse states Jesus is on Earth during a future millennium?

 

[WPM]

Your the one says the resurected saints in Ezekiel 37 are sin-curse goat infested death-blighted.
The word of God says they come up out of their graves and are a peaceful people who dwell without walls and are completely safe.God says they are his people and they know him.

They live in the land of Israel which which is recoverd from war.They live there from the time they are resurrected in chapter 37 till Gog comes against them in chapter 38 and continue to live there after Gog has been destroyed in chapter 39 .They live there even to later chapters when the river of life is flowing from Jerusalem to the dead sea.

PS
After they come out of their graves in chapter 37,scripture shows they are perfectly safe.Scripture does not show any of them dying a second death after their resurrection.

This is speaking about Christ's 1st advent where He brought salvation to Israel. This resulted in them experiencing a pace that passes all understanding.

 

[robert derrick]

In post 34, I was referring to scriptures such as,

2Thess 1:5-10

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you.

As I said before, Paul is speaking specifically of those who go out of their way to trouble Christians: Persecutors, not the average unbeliever nor part-time believer.

They also include false apostles that go out of their way to write letters and knock on doors, to spread their corrupt gospels to other Christians.

Not all unbelievers seek to do harm to Christians, nor any other religious believers, and so at His next coming, only them gathered for war against Him around Armageddon will be destroyed.

You never responded to this point.

Once you address it specifically, then I'll go to your next Scriptural point.

 

[rwb]

Man was given dominion over the earth. Satan was powerless to take that - as of right. If man had not sinned then Satan would have been powerful to do harm on earth.

Satan at no time exercised divine power, only Adamic power. It was never his to take, never mind use. God has always remained the supreme governor over the affairs of life and man. After all, God forfeited absolutely nothing to the enemy. The devil never owned the ability to override the plan and purpose of God. Only by permission could (and can) Satan cause any harm. Adam could only give to Satan what authority he had, which was human earthly power. Since Adam's authority was given to him by God and Adam was never above or even equal to God, the authority handed over to Satan was not authority above or even equal to God. Only God could relinquish His own authority which of course could never (nor would ever) happen.

Of course, the Savior didn’t submit to the corrupt schemes of Satan in the wilderness. God had a more-perfect path laid out for Christ that would decisively defeat the devil. It would see Christ overcome Satan in his own backyard and allow Christ to acquire his spoil – the Gentile nations. Satan would submit to God’s arrangement, not the other way round. God’s answer was Christ and His blueprint was Calvary. Through this great transaction, “the kingdoms of the world” would receive the glorious Gospel of Christ; resulting in countless (hitherto darkened) Gentiles coming into a personal relationship with Christ.

In heaven’s plan, Christ would never have to bow down to Satan in order to secure the nations; not in the wilderness, not at the cross, not ever. Calvary was the foreordained route of conquest. It was the place where Satan would be decisively disarmed. He was displaced so that the nations could receive salvation in significant numbers. Through Christ’s obedience, Satan would be unseated from his former unchallenged position. The defeat of Satan ensured that the Gospel would break out into the nations in the most incredible manner possible.

Dispensationalist Clarence Larkin says in his book The Book of Revelation, “There is something that was lost to mankind and the earth that is to be redeemed, and we do not have to go far to find out what it was. It is the inheritance of the earth and of immortal life given to Adam and Eve, and that was lost in the Fall of Eden. The forfeited Title Deed is now in God's hands and is awaiting redemption. Its redemption means the legal repossession of all that Adam lost by the Fall.”

At the cross Christ took legal repossession of all Adam had lost through the fall. The reason he did was because he was both God and man’s great representative. Although strongly dispensational, Clarence Larkin rightly contends in his book ‘Book of Revelation’: “Adam was impotent to redeem the lost possession, but the law provides (Lev. 25:23-34) that a kinsman may redeem a lost possession. That kinsman has been provided in the person of Jesus Christ. To become a kinsman He had to be born into the human race. This the Virgin Birth accomplished. Jesus paid the redemptive price, which was His own blood, on the cross (1. Pet. 1:18-20).”

In this pitiful state, man required divine intervention, which would raise him from the wretched repercussions of dual death and correct his inevitable deserved double-sentence. Sinful was unable, but God taking on human form would act as man’s substitute. The devil was no match for Jesus Christ.

Paul, thank you very much for this in-depth reply. You have opened my eyes to things I had not before thought of, little lone considered. I hope you will not grow weary in replying to these threads, your honest, and biblical responses are so refreshing, again, thank you.

May God abundantly bless you and yours, and I pray that God may continually watch over you!

 

[jeffweeder]

Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you.

As I said before, Paul is speaking specifically of those who go out of their way to trouble Christians: Persecutors, not the average unbeliever nor part-time believer.

They also include false apostles that go out of their way to write letters and knock on doors, to spread their corrupt gospels to other Christians.

Not all unbelievers seek to do harm to Christians, nor any other religious believers, and so at His next coming, only them gathered for war against Him around Armageddon will be destroyed.

You never responded to this point.

Once you address it specifically, then I'll go to your next Scriptural point.

Paul goes on to say this...,

when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in a flame of fire, 8 dealing out [full and complete] vengeance to those who do not [seek to] know God and to those who ignore and refuse to obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus [by choosing not to respond to Him]. 9 These people will pay the penalty and endure the punishment of everlasting destruction, banished from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, 10 when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day


That would be all unbelievers being eternally punished at the Lords appearing to glorify us. Very specific.

 

[shilohsfoal]

This is speaking about Christ's 1st advent where He brought salvation to Israel. This resulted in them experiencing a pace that passes all understanding.

That would be false.
This is Christ second advent in which he resurrects those who die during the tribulation.They die for their testimony of Christ and they do not worship the beast ,it's image ,nor do they receive it's mark.

Revelation 20:4
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.


These who die during the tribulation in Israel will be resurected first.

Mathew 19:40
But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

Do you purposely refuse the truth or can you honestly not understand what you are reading?

 

[WPM]

Paul, thank you very much for this in-depth reply. You have opened my eyes to things I had not before thought of, little lone considered. I hope you will not grow weary in replying to these threads, your honest, and biblical responses are so refreshing, again, thank you.

May God abundantly bless you and yours, and I pray that God may continually watch over you!

Thanks for your encouragement. It means a lot.

 

[Timtofly]

Well said. Whenever I see someone try to claim that the earth will be completely annihilated and replaced by an entirely new earth I bring up the scripture that says that the meek will inherit the earth. Surely, it's not saying that the meek will inherit the earth only for a temporary amount of time! That would be a bummer. No, we will inherit the (new) earth for eternity after it is renewed.

We can look at this similar to our bodies. Our bodies die but they are not completely annihilated. Even when they are cremated they still exist as dust. When Christ returns at the last trumpet the bodies of the dead in Christ will not be annihilated and replaced by entirely different bodies, but rather will be "changed" into spiritual, immortal bodies (1 Cor 15). The heavens and earth will be changed (renewed), not annihilated and replaced and the same is true for our bodies.

Bodies changed? That is not what Paul taught. 2 Corinthians 5:1.

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."


Paul taught the soul changes physical bodies like babies changing their diapers. You don't throw out the baby and call that a diaper change. You toss out the old diaper. It is not the same diaper reconstituted. The soul does not go back into a resurrected dead body from Adam's genetics or the dust of the ground. In fact it is the spiritually dead who return to dust never to come back because they bury themselves and that is the end.

"And as touching the dead, that they rise: have ye not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spake unto him, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err."

"And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God."

Jesus was not being mean or nonsensical. Jesus was stating the hard truth. Jesus claimed that after the Cross, no one would have to taste death again. No one took Adam's dead corruptible flesh to Paradise. No one waited in death as a soul in Abraham's bosom post the Cross. Amil literally deny the resurrection hour that happened at the Cross. Souls did not just leave Abraham's bosom without a physical body. Adam's dead flesh did not come out of the grave to physically die again. The souls at the Cross had physical bodies that ascended physically Sunday morning with Jesus and all were presented to God as the firstfruits, plural. Not just a singular resurrection of Christ alone, the false interpretation of Amil of Revelation 20:4-6.

Those who physically die in Christ are not the dead. God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. And Paul specifically claims there is a permanent compared to this temporal body waiting in Paradise. The body is waiting. The soul is not the one waiting for a future resurrection. Once again:

"For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens."

The change is to a permanent incorruptible physical body. And Lazarus was the literal embodiment of that change from Adam's temporal tent to God's permanent building.

You get hung up on time. The meek inherit this current creation. No verse says the meek inherit the NE. The meek inherit the creation that started in Genesis 1. Of course all on current earth at the end of the 1,000 years live on the new earth. They won't even feel pain nor the transition from one creation to the next. It will be smoother than changing a diaper. Instead of worrying about the 1,000 years being too short or not worth it, why not look at what is being inherited?

Are you going to be able to change all manuscripts to read the new creation instead of the one created in Genesis 1? This current creation is not handed back until after Jesus reigns for 1,000 years. There was not a new creation in the first century. Not every one spiritualizes the NHNE as already a thing in the past. There was no Genesis 1:1 recorded on the day of Pentecost. The kingdoms mentioned in the NT were still the one's applicable to the creation of Genesis 1, even if there was no longer a Garden of Eden after the Flood, for Adam's descendants. The meek inherit this earth at the Second Coming. This earth is the only one with a foundation in Genesis 1.

They were not even born when Jesus spoke those words. The meek will still inherit this current earth. They will be humans alive at the Second Coming. There are no third group of meek people seperate from the church and the dead who are resurrected. It never says the meek will die and be resurrected. Nor is there any indication that the meek inherit as an ongoing phenomenon. The meek get to stay on the earth during the 1,000 year reign. However the church already inherited Paradise (heavenly kingdom of God for Adam's restored offspring). The church will enjoy Paradise until the church comes down in the New Jerusalem. A very large square structure 1200 miles in all 3 dimensions. It would be noticeable if already on the earth.