Another Premillennial absurdity

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CadyandZoe

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You deny that He has always existed and that He created the heavens and the earth. Since when did God not do those things? You can't say that Jesus is God and at the same time deny that He has the atrributes of God. You are just completely clueless about this and I feel sorry for you that you are so spiritually blind.
I already explained all of this to you. And yet you do not believe. We talked about God's attributes and I divided his attributes into two categories, those that describe "what" he is and those that describe "who" he is. You do understand the difference between "what" and "who" don't you? I'm sure you do.

WHAT attributes: (exclusive to God alone)
Aseity
Eternity
Immanence
Immutability
Incomprehensibility
Incorporeality
Infinity
Omnipotence
Omnipresence
Omniscience
Oneness
simplicity
Transcendence

WHO attributes: (qualities shared by both the Father and the Son)
Goodness
Graciousness
Holiness
Impeccability
Love
Righteousness
Veracity

Both sets of attributes belong to the Father. Some of the Father's qualities are also shared by the Son, which taken together indicate that the Father and the Son are identical. Since the Father and Jesus share these qualities, Jesus tells Philip that "if you have seen me, you have seen the father." Why does Jesus say this? The Bible teaches us that incomprehensibility is an attribute of God, which means that God is not able to be fully known. Isaiah 40:28

Therefore, according to the New Testament, Jesus came to make the Father comprehensible. God the Father can be fully known through the Son, which is one reason why John calls him, "the light of the world." John tells us that Jesus "interprets" the father. John 1:18 As such, the man Jesus, shares the same attributes of God which CAN be expressed in a human life. Jesus is not "fully" God. Jesus is not incomprehensible, he is not all knowing, he is not transcendent etc. But Jesus gives full expression to the Father's other attributes, which can be known through a human life. Jesus is that man; Jesus is the Father's goodness, his graciousness, his holiness, his impeccability, his love, his righteousness, his veracity. Jesus the man is God in everyway that can be expressed in a human life.
 

CadyandZoe

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I understand that you are clueless.
I admit to being clueless about what you were asking.
You deny that Jesus is fully God, right?
Yes, Jesus is a man.
So, how much God is He?
It isn't a matter of degree as you suppose. For an explanation refer to my previous post to you.
You are clearly pretending to not know what I'm getting at here.
Perhaps you should allow me to speak for myself, just as I agreed to allow you to speak for yourself.
You are playing dumb, but we can all see through that.
Your interpretation of my question is inaccurate.
You gave the example of a pregnant woman. Is a pregnant woman not fully pregnant? Of course she is. So, how can you say that Jesus is God, but not fully God? That is just like saying that a pregnant woman is not fully pregnant. Ridiculous.
Okay, now we are getting somewhere. My example illustrates the contradiction. The statement, "the woman is pregnant and the woman is not pregnant" is a contradictory statement.

Now consider the following case. A man holds up two pictures of his wife. One picture shows her when they were first married; the other picture shows her when they were having their first child. In the first picture she is not pregnant, in the second picture she is pregnant. This illustrates another aspect of the law of non-contradiction. Contradictory propositions cannot both be true in the same sense at the same time.

The example above illustrates this point. If the husband were showing another man the pictures he might say, "my wife is pregnant, and my wife is not pregnant." This clumsy proposition is not contradictory because the man is not saying that she was both pregnant and not pregnant at the same time.


Do you understand that God is eternal (has always existed)? Do you understand that God created the heavens and the earth? Yet, you don't believe Jesus did those things. So, how can you say that He is God when it's a fact that God is eternal and created all things?
I reject the claim that Jesus is fully God because that would mean that Jesus is both a man and not a man at the same time. This is a contradiction. Rather, as I explained earlier, The Scriptures teach us that Jesus shares all of God's qualities that CAN be expressed in the life of a man. Jesus tells Philip, "if you have seen me, you have seen the Father."
Scripture even clearly teaches that Jesus created all things, and you still deny it. It's just unbelievable.
Scripture does not teach us that Jesus Created all things. Your translation contains a Trinitarian bias.
You are so deceived that it boggles my mind. You are being shown the truth explicitly and you still deny it! May God have mercy on your soul.
Thespian!
 

CadyandZoe

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Ok then. I will try again. Is Jesus 100% God and 100% man?
No. Jesus is a man. God is a Spirit.
Jesus does not share these attributes with God

Aseity -- Jesus is not self-existing.
Eternity -- Jesus was born.
Immutability -- Jesus grew in stature from a boy
Incomprehensibility -- Jesus makes God understandable
Incorporeality -- Jesus has a body.
Infinity -- Jesus walked the earth
Omnipotence -- Jesus calls on angels to help him.
Omnipresence -- Jesus travels
Omniscience -- Jesus doesn't know the day or the hour
Simplicity -- Jesus grew in wisdom
Transcendence -- Jesus was not outside space and time.

Therefore, Jesus is not 100% God.
 

CadyandZoe

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I'm sorta tired of your open blasphemy in denial that Jesus Christ was "God Manifest In The Flesh" this is a Christian forum, not a cultic Jehovahs Witness forum

You have explained your unorthodox "heretical views" for weeks now, we Christians have fully answered your claims several times, please refrain from your unorthodox Non-Christian postings in heretical teachings, you are know "Trolling" with your "Jehovahs Witness False Doctrine" in a "Christians Only" forum

Jesus Is The Lord

Colossians 2:9KJV
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
Oh, now you are tired? hmm. I hope you recall that I pleaded with you to drop the subject. I begged you to stop. But you insisted that I highjack someone's thread. And now we witness a group discussion where we see an exchange of ideas among peaceable brothers. From your perspective you should be glad that these men have been given an opportunity to argue what they believe to be right. As long as people like me are censored, then the Trinitarian traditions of Christianity remain unexamined. What if I am wrong? (I don't think so, but I am willing to be corrected.) Then what better way for others to prove Trinitarian doctrine than an open discussion of scripture?

You should know that the truth is always victorious in a fair fight, which is why censorship is an evil that promotes the darkness. I encourage you brother, stay in the fight and reason with those with whom you disagree.
 

CadyandZoe

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I'm sorta tired of your open blasphemy in denial that Jesus Christ was "God Manifest In The Flesh" this is a Christian forum, not a cultic Jehovahs Witness forum

You have explained your unorthodox "heretical views" for weeks now, we Christians have fully answered your claims several times, please refrain from your unorthodox Non-Christian postings in heretical teachings, you are know "Trolling" with your "Jehovahs Witness False Doctrine" in a "Christians Only" forum

Jesus Is The Lord

Colossians 2:9KJV
9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
One more thing. Let's talk about Colossians 2:9, which the KJV renders "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." The English term "Godhead" translates the Greek word "θεότητος" [theotatos] which is only used once in the New Testament and it is fairly rare in all of Greek literature. Some translations render the word as "deity" but the word actually means "divine nature."

For in him
But here we have Paul's typical phrase "in him" which he coined in reference to his church. Consider the previous few verses and notice how Paul uses the phrase "in him."

Colossians 2:6-7
6 Therefore, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live your lives in him, 7 rooted and built up in him and firm in your faith just as you were taught . . .

The phrase "in him" designates those who have received Christ Jesus as Lord. It refers to those who live their lives according to his teaching in obedience to his instructions. It refers to those who are firm in faith. Given Paul's definition of "in him" let's look at verse 9 again.

" For in Him all the fullness of θεότητος dwells in bodily form."

In this way, Paul refers to all the Jesus-followers. All of the Jesus-followers are "the fulness of θεότητος" included within the body of Christ. Paul often talks about the body of Christ as the collection of all people who obey the faith. Jesus is the head of the body, the church, as he says in Colossians 1:18 and as such all of those "in him" comprise the fullness of θεότητος.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I wasn't comparing anything. My analogy serves to give an example of contradiction. The non-biblical concept "fully God and fully man" is meaningless and contradictory.
No, it is not. You say that Jesus is God, but then seem to imply that He is somehow only partially God since you deny that He has always existed and that He created all things. If He is God then He has always existed and created all things because those are attributes of God. But, you don't seem to want to address that. Not surprising.

I understand you to say, "gee, I see what he means but I can't admit this publicly." But I don't really know. Maybe I'm wrong.
You're wrong about everything.

But I noticed this about you. When you can't argue back you default to intimidation. You should pray about this.
You aren't in a position to tell me to do anything. You are deceived. Your false teaching has been exposed for all here to see and you don't like it.
 
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robert derrick

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Even Premillennialists agree that this current earth (the first earth) will pass away and be replaced by a brand new perfect glorified earth after Satan’s little season.
True.


Israel and its ancient borders will then disappear,
True, since the whole earth is scorched of any borders.

thus rendering the Premillennialism insistence upon Abraham taking the land “forever” as null-and-void.
Only if you reject His reign on earth, say there is only one bodily resurrection, fo the dead, and makes symbols out Armageddon, and Gog and Magog.

You thus has no merit, even in your own argument.

You have a dishonest habit of acting like you are agreeing with others in part, and then conclude they must agree with all your teaching, by putting your teaching into it.
 

WPM

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True.



True, since the whole earth is scorched of any borders.


Only if you reject His reign on earth, say there is only one bodily resurrection, fo the dead, and makes symbols out Armageddon, and Gog and Magog.

You thus has no merit, even in your own argument.

You have a dishonest habit of acting like you are agreeing with others in part, and then conclude they must agree with all your teaching, by putting your teaching into it.

So, how can Abraham take these ancient borders "forever" as you insist?
 

WPM

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No. Jesus is a man. God is a Spirit.
Jesus does not share these attributes with God

Aseity -- Jesus is not self-existing.
Eternity -- Jesus was born.
Immutability -- Jesus grew in stature from a boy
Incomprehensibility -- Jesus makes God understandable
Incorporeality -- Jesus has a body.
Infinity -- Jesus walked the earth
Omnipotence -- Jesus calls on angels to help him.
Omnipresence -- Jesus travels
Omniscience -- Jesus doesn't know the day or the hour
Simplicity -- Jesus grew in wisdom
Transcendence -- Jesus was not outside space and time.

Therefore, Jesus is not 100% God.

More heresy. More blasphemy. More nonsense. More Unitarianism.
 
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robert derrick

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Abraham and the other heroes of faith are not looking forward to the land on this old earth where they felt like foreigner's and strangers.

Yes, he did when he walked it. Not when the Lord gives it to Him as promised.
Like Peter, they looked forward to a NHNE at the end of the ages of the old heaven old earth.
True, at the end of Christ's kingdom on earth ruling with a rod of iron.

Don't worry, it'll be but as a day to the resurrected saints, including Abraham.

I don't begrudge him getting his promised land, nor Job seeing God on this earth with his own eyes.

You don't care about Abraham getting his promised land, but Abraham certainly does.

And I mostly care because I believe all Scripture as written, both literal and symbolic.

When you make what is literal into symbolic, because you don't believe it, then you make Scripture symbolic myth only.
 

robert derrick

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So, how can Abraham take these ancient borders "forever" as you insist?
How could the OT that is passed and decayed, have ever been spoken of as everlasting? Including the law of Moses and covenant of circumcision?

Answer that, and you can answer your own question as well.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I already explained all of this to you. And yet you do not believe. We talked about God's attributes and I divided his attributes into two categories, those that describe "what" he is and those that describe "who" he is. You do understand the difference between "what" and "who" don't you? I'm sure you do.
No, you didn't explain it to me unless I missed that post. You may have explained it to someone else. Anyway, since Jesus is God He has all of the attributes of God, but you deny that. Do you understand that you try to say that Jesus is God, but deny that He has all the attributes of God, which makes no sense whatsoever? It's like saying that you're a human being, but you lack a human soul or spirit. Get out of here with your nonsense.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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No. Jesus is a man. God is a Spirit.
Jesus does not share these attributes with God

Aseity -- Jesus is not self-existing.
Eternity -- Jesus was born.
Immutability -- Jesus grew in stature from a boy
Incomprehensibility -- Jesus makes God understandable
Incorporeality -- Jesus has a body.
Infinity -- Jesus walked the earth
Omnipotence -- Jesus calls on angels to help him.
Omnipresence -- Jesus travels
Omniscience -- Jesus doesn't know the day or the hour
Simplicity -- Jesus grew in wisdom
Transcendence -- Jesus was not outside space and time.

Therefore, Jesus is not 100% God.
If He wasn't 100% God then He wouldn't be God at all. Imagine someone saying that He's not 100% human. Would you find that to be a credible argument? You continue to spew complete nonsense and false teaching.
 

WPM

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How could the OT that is passed and decayed, have ever been spoken of as everlasting? Including the law of Moses and covenant of circumcision?

Answer that, and you can answer your own question as well.

Exactly! That is what I am saying! That destroys your claims of Abraham retaking the ancient land in the future. The old covenant promises have been superseded with greater ones and better land - Jesus Christ and the new covenant arrangement.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I admit to being clueless about what you were asking.
When will you admit to being clueless about everything? Because you are.

Yes, Jesus is a man.
And He is God, as scripture clearly teaches.


It isn't a matter of degree as you suppose. For an explanation refer to my previous post to you.
An explanation that is laughable at best. Do you actually believe that anyone is going to buy your complete nonsense and absurdity? Think again.

Perhaps you should allow me to speak for myself, just as I agreed to allow you to speak for yourself.
I don't need to allow anything for you. You should be banned from this forum.

I reject the claim that Jesus is fully God because that would mean that Jesus is both a man and not a man at the same time. This is a contradiction.
No, it is not! Why do you put limits on what God can do? It shows that you don't even know God.

Scripture does not teach us that Jesus Created all things. Your translation contains a Trinitarian bias.
What is your translation? The Satanic Bible?
 

jeffweeder

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Exactly! That is what I am saying! That destroys your claims of Abraham retaking the ancient land in the future. The old covenant promises have been superseded with greater ones and better land - Jesus Christ and the new covenant arrangement.
Yes.
Abraham and others of faith believed this.

13 All these died in faith [guided and sustained by it], without receiving the [tangible fulfillment of God’s] promises, only having seen (anticipated) them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 Now those who say such things make it clear that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 And if they had been thinking of that country from which they departed [as their true home], they would have had [a continuing] opportunity to return. 16 But the truth is that they were longing for a better country, that is, a heavenly one. For that reason God is not ashamed [of them or] to be called their God [even to be surnamed their God—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob]; for He has prepared a city for them.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Yes.
Abraham and others of faith believed this.

13 All these died in faith [guided and sustained by it], without receiving the [tangible fulfillment of God’s] promises, only having seen (anticipated) them and having welcomed them from a distance, and having acknowledged that they were strangers and exiles on the earth. 14 Now those who say such things make it clear that they are looking for a country of their own. 15 And if they had been thinking of that country from which they departed [as their true home], they would have had [a continuing] opportunity to return. 16 But the truth is that they were longing for a better country, that is, a heavenly one. For that reason God is not ashamed [of them or] to be called their God [even to be surnamed their God—the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob]; for He has prepared a city for them.
Right. And this has already been shown to him, but he still insists that God will give Abraham that useless piece of land that Abraham was no longer looking for, as if that means anything compared to giving him eternal life on the new earth.
 

jeffweeder

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I don't begrudge him getting his promised land, nor Job seeing God on this earth with his own eyes.
See Heb 11. The heavenly.

Job will see this under the New heavens that he will create after the Judgment is past.

12
So man lies down and does not rise [again].
Until the heavens are no longer,
The dead will not awake nor be raised from their sleep.
13
“Oh, that You would hide me in Sheol (the nether world, the place of the dead),
That You would conceal me until Your wrath is past,
That You would set a definite time and then remember me [and in Your lovingkindness imprint me on your heart]!
14
“If a man dies, will he live again?
I will wait all the days of my struggle
Until my change and release will come.
15
“[Then] You will call, and I will answer You;
You will long for [me] the work of Your hands.
16
“But now You number [each of] my steps;
You do not observe nor take note of my sin.
17
“My transgression is sealed up in a bag,
And You cover my wickedness [from Your view].
 
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CadyandZoe

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No, it is not. You say that Jesus is God, but then seem to imply that He is somehow only partially God since you deny that He has always existed and that He created all things. If He is God then He has always existed and created all things because those are attributes of God. But, you don't seem to want to address that. Not surprising.
You don't seem to understand the concept of "image".