Amillennialism is an obsolete and outdated eschatological fabrication.

[WPM]

I serve Jesus Christ, the great God and Savior of the world. Get off your high horse and stop the holier than thou act. You come on here trying to say that Amillenniailsm is obsolete and and an outdated fabrication and you expect me to play tiddly winks and hopscotch with you?

Look in the mirror, hypocrite.

Bro, he is frustrated because he's got no rebuttal to what you have written. That is the way he operates. Talk about bitter and vicious.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Bro, he is frustrated because he's got no rebuttal to what you have written. That is the way he operates. Talk about bitter and vicious.

Right. He hasn't changed from the Bibleforums days. Notice that he made no attempt to address the points I made. He came up with this excuse that I'm being too personal when he was being personal himself. A tactic he is using to avoid the fact that he has nothing to refute what I said. It's always the case that hypocrites are not aware that they are hypocrites, isn't it.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And yet part of Israel is blinded until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. That will be the first fold.

Are you aware that part of Israel was blinded in Paul's day and that some of those who were blinded were later saved? Does that match your current understanding of what part of Israel being blinded means?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Anyway, this will only continue to be a fruitless exchange. I simply encourage you to believe the words written in the normal way they would be understood by the original speaker and hearer, without substituting meanings to something that "makes more sense to you".

Yes, he should just assume that promises God made to Abraham and his seed refer to Abraham and his physical descendants since that "would be understood by the original speaker and hearer". God forbid we accept what Paul taught about that since, in your mind, he substituted meanings to something that made more sense to him.

Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[The Light]

Are you aware that part of Israel was blinded in Paul's day and that some of those who were blinded were later saved? Does that match your current understanding of what part of Israel being blinded means?

Not really though I certainly agree that the first believers were of Israel as Christs ministry was to the Jews. But the long story is.........

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

 

[Marty fox]

Yes, true Israel is born according to the Spirit, not the flesh. Not all are Abraham's children.

And who does Christ aid to salvation? The seed of Abraham, God says to Abraham in Isaac you seed shall be called.

Hebrews 2 is referring to the children God gave to Christ as believers (the seed of Abraham, the children of promise). They are of God so they hear God speak, if you do not hear, then you are not of God, John 8:47

*************************************************************************************
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who [g]sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:

“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”
13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”
And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”
14 Inasmuch then as the children have partaken of flesh and blood, He Himself likewise shared in the same, that through death He might destroy him who had the power of death, that is, the devil, 15 and release those who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. 16 For indeed He does not [h]give aid to angels, but He does [i]give aid to the seed of Abraham. 17 Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people (the children God gave Christ, who God is bringing to Glory). 18 For in that He Himself has suffered, being [j]tempted, He is able to aid those who are tempted.

***********************************************************************

Christ is the believer's Great High priest, who makes intercession for the people of God, Christ never prays for the world.
John 17
9 “I pray for them. I do not pray for the world but for those whom You have given Me, for they are Yours.
10 And all Mine are Yours, and Yours are Mine, and I am glorified in them.


Read John 8 with Christ teaching about this very thing to the unbelieving Jews.
***********************************************************************

Abraham’s Seed and Satan’s​

37 “I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. 38 I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have [n]seen with your father.”

39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. 40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. 43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. 45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?

47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

Yes amen thanks

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Not really though I certainly agree that the first believers were of Israel as Christs ministry was to the Jews. But the long story is.........

Matthew 23
37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

You don't really agree with Paul's belief that he could lead some of those who were blinded in his time to salvation, as he wrote about in Romans 11:11-14?

 

[The Light]

You don't really agree with Paul's belief that he could lead some of those who were blinded in his time to salvation, as he wrote about in Romans 11:11-14?

Some of the branches are broken off and can be regrafted.

 

[WPM]

Some of the branches are broken off and can be regrafted.

If they become born again, surrender their lives to Christ and become Christians.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Some of the branches are broken off and can be regrafted.

I was referring to Paul's time. Do you believe that some of the branches that were broken off in his time could be regrafted? Is that not what he indicated in Romans 11:11-14 and Romans 11:23?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

If they become born again, surrender their life to Christ and become Christians.

Yes, and that applied even to the branches who were broken off in Paul's day, which many people don't understand. Many people instead apply Paul's reference to them being grafted in again only to the future, when the reality is that some of those who were broken off in Paul's day ended up being grafted in again. As evidenced by the fact that Paul wanted to lead some of those who had been broken off in his time to salvation (Romans 11:11-14).

 

[The Light]

I was referring to Paul's time. Do you believe that some of the branches that were broken off in his time could be regrafted? Is that not what he indicated in Romans 11:11-14 and Romans 11:23?

That was certainly Paul's desire.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

That was certainly Paul's desire.

Yes, and do you think his desire did not come to fruition, keeping in mind that he might have been the greatest evangelist to ever live, other than Jesus Himself?

 

[The Light]

Yes, and do you think his desire did not come to fruition, keeping in mind that he might have been the greatest evangelist to ever live, other than Jesus Himself?

Sure. It's a Biblical fact.

 

[marks]

God forbid we accept what Paul taught about that since, in your mind, he substituted meanings to something that made more sense to him.

The passages you quote don't remove God's promises. Your arguments are non-sequitor.

Dispensations. Without understanding that, it's not going to make sense.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Your have to remember . . . Abraham and Jacob were different people, and God gave promises to both men. And those promises - to both men - will be kept by God, Who does not lie.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Sure. It's a Biblical fact.

Right. So, would you agree with me then that the regrafting that Paul referred to was already happening in his time when some Israelites were grafted back in and that would continue to happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The passages you quote don't remove God's promises.

No, they explain who the promises were actually made to, which dispensationalists like yourself deny.

Your arguments are non-sequitor.

Absolutely not. These are empty words than you can't back up. As evidenced by the fact that you didn't back them up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your have to remember . . . Abraham and Jacob were different people, and God gave promises to both men. And those promises - to both men - will be kept by God, Who does not lie.

Much love!

Why are you so vague in your responses? Tell me what you're talking about here exactly. Do you believe that the promises God made to Abraham and his seed were made to Christ and those who belong to Christ, as Paul taught (Galatians 3:16,29)?

What promises to Jacob are you talking about exactly?

 

[The Light]

Right. So, would you agree with me then that the regrafting that Paul referred to was already happening in his time when some Israelites were grafted back in and that would continue to happen until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in?

Absolutely, there was a small regrafting that has been going on from then until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in. After that time how much more the fullness of the seed of the woman will be.

The fullness of the Gentiles is the pretribulation rapture of the Church. After that event there will be 144,000 first fruits of the 12 tribes. Then will come the harvest of the seed of the woman, the 12 tribes across the earth. This harvest will occur at the 6th seal, before the wrath of God.

Hosea 9
10 I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the fig tree at her first time: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved.

The fig tree has two harvests. The fathers of Israel were seen as the first fruits of the first harvest. The first harvest was to be Israel, but they went to Baalpeor. So the Gentiles become the first harvest. That is why after this harvest there are 144,000 first fruits of the second harvest. And this harvest will occur at the 6th seal, at the last trump that is blown on the Feast of Trumpets.