42 months of the beast is Kil'ayim

[tailgator]

The two witnesses are not two people. The two witnesses are all the Jews who are faithful to God and all the Christians who are faithful to God. The two olive trees from Romans 11. They are also shown as a field of dry bones in Ezekiel 37. There, as in Revelation 11, they will stand on their feet. Ezekiel 37 further explains that these dry bones are the two houses of Israel: the house of Judah (Jews, Judaism), the house of Joseph (Ephraim) - the lost tribes of Israel that are hidden in the Gentile Christians. Christians will be added to Judaism, the stick of Ephraim will be added to the stick of Judah. Then there will be a united Israel, and this will happen during the building of the Third Temple.

The two witnesses are two people who will testify in Israel for 1260 days .Then they are killed and lay dead for 3.5 days.Then they are resurected and ascend into heaven in a cloud

They are not dry bones They lay dead for only 3.5 days .They didn't have enough time to decompose.

 

[Galgal]

Dear Galgal,
Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy will only be completed after the last Elect person has been saved. Their salvation is the stated goal of the prophecy found in Dan 9:24.

The first 69 1/2 weeks were fulfilled when Christ was "cutoff" at the cross. Those 69 1/2 weeks of years were physically completed under the Old Covenant (which is a physical covenant). The last 3 1/2 years will be completed spiritually and individually within each Elect person as they are converted (Early & Latter Rains, followed by judgement). After the last Elect person is saved, Daniel's Seventy Weeks prophecy will be fulfilled.

The covenant which Christ confirmed is the covenant that Christ made with Abraham. The heirs to whom the promises were made are the Elect.

Christ confirmed the covenant at the beginning of the last 7 years of Daniel's prophecy when Christ was baptized by John the Baptist. This marked the starting point of His work of saving the Elect. Three and a half years later, Christ went to the cross and was cutoff. This caused the Old Covenant (the daily sacrifice and oblation) to end and the New Covenant to begin. Since the New Covenant is a spiritual covenant, the last 3 1/2 years will be spiritually fulfilled.

As for the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit, both are necessary for a person to be converted/saved.

James 5:7 Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the farmer waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receives the EARLY and LATTER RAIN. 8 Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh.

Hos 6:3 Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (Christ) shall come unto us as the RAIN, as the latter and former RAIN unto the earth.

The Early Rain of the Spirit is a small measure of the Spirit. It will give a person their faith in Christ and certain spiritual gifts. This is when a person will enter the church and become a "babe". But since the Early Rain of the Spirit is given in measure, it will leave the person carnally minded, spiritually blind and unconverted. In this condition, they will fall prey to Satan and become apostate. No "babe" can avoid it happening to them.

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (the converted Elect). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (the babes who can only draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (apostasy of the church).

Isa 28:12 was fulfilled by the apostasy of the church which Paul mentions below:

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Since all "babes" will become apostate, it is necessary for Christ to come a second time to His Elect to restore them. When He comes to them, He will pour out the Latter Rain of the Spirit (baptism of the Holy Spirit), followed by judgment (baptism of Fire). This is the conversion event when a babe become a little child and enters the Kingdom of Heaven.

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The Apostles received the Early Rain of the Spirit just before they accepted Jesus as the Christ and as their Lord. Without the Early Rain, they could not have made this confession.

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

When Christ "came again" to the Apostles on the Day of Pentecost, Christ poured out the Latter Rain of the Spirit and converted them.

Paul received the Early Rain of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. This is when Paul accepted Christ as His Lord. Paul's blindness represented his spiritual blindness. The three days Paul spent in Damascus (unable to eat or drink of the New Covenant) represented Paul becoming "worse than the first" (a man of sin). When Ananias came to Paul, Paul received the Latter Rain of the Spirit which healed his spiritual blindness. This is when Paul was converted and was able to start receiving the spiritual nourishment of the truth (bread & New Wine).

Joe

We are already baptized with the Holy Spirit. If we were not baptized with the Holy Spirit, we could not be in the Body of Christ. That is, none of us would be saved in Christ.

The sign that we are in Christ is our ability to act as Jesus Christ would act in our place. Whoever acts as Jesus Christ acted is in Christ, in His Body, into which he is baptized with the Holy Spirit.

In this Body we are already seated in Christ Jesus in heaven:

And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: (Ephesians 2:6)

Of course, we must fulfill what Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5-6-7.

The visible sign that we are in Christ will be our resurrection. First, the elect ones from the four winds will enter through the eastern gate of the Third Temple, which will be built in the Judean desert. This will be the "Philadelphia church" of Revelation. The entry into the eastern gate will last from the 1st to the 10th day of the 7th month of Tishrei, from Yom Teruah to Yom Kippur. The moment the eastern gate closes on Yom Kippur will be the "twinkling of an eye" when the status of the people who entered the eastern gate will change: they will become the incarnation of Jesus Christ at the Second Coming. This will be the visible moment of the unity of the Body of Christ. For the world, this will be the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. After this, there will be vials of wrath. After the 6th vial, Judaism, "the great river Euphrates", will dry up, and this will open the way for "the kings from the east", "the lost tribes of Israel" will be able to make aliyah. This will be the "rapture of the Church" - the aliyah of the 5 wise virgins to the Lord, Who became incarnate in the Philadelphia church in Israel. This aliyah will last 3 months (2 Esdras 6:24), from the 6th to the 7th vial of wrath. Then the city of Yahweh Shammah will be built in Israel, and this will become the 7th vial of wrath. A city of talented words from the midst of Heavenly Jerusalem will destroy the earthly confessions of prodigal Christianity.

Therefore, I do not understand what other "baptism of the Spirit" you expect? Either you are in Christ now - then you are already baptized in the Spirit. Or you are not in Christ now - then you need to go buy the Holy Spirit from God, giving yourself to God for holy deeds, in the name of Jesus Christ.

The spirit that will now descend will produce the Judgment, and if you do not have a reserve of the "oil" of the Holy Spirit in you, then you will not be able to "shine", fulfilling the commandments of Jesus Christ. Then you will not be allowed to the wedding feast.

There is the Smyrna church - these are those who will build the Third Temple. They are saved entirely.

There is the Philadelphia church - these are those who will enter the eastern gate of the Temple. The Angel of this Church will become equal to God (the Jews will worship Him).

There are other 5 churches, and you need to have a supply of the Holy Spirit to find yourself in their God-saved part, because they will all be judged: some will be taken to Israel - and others will remain outside.

I assure you, Christ has already entered into his glory on the 16th of Nisan, 32 A.D. He, the most Holy, has already been anointed. Therefore, all 70 weeks have long been fulfilled for believers. We have long been living in heaven in Christ.

If you still live on the "earth" of carnal denominations of Christianity - this is your problem. In Christ there is not a single denomination. Those who gave their lives to God, in the name of Jesus Christ, all live in heaven, not dividing into denominations of fallen religion. And the moment of our unity on earth will be when the Third Temple, described by Ezekiel in chapters 40-48, is built.

 

[tailgator]

There is a rule of Torah interpretation that says that in the Torah there is no subsequent and previous. If one verse says A and the next verse says B, it does not mean that event A occurs before event B.

In the case of the Revelation of John, everything is much more complicated: it describes events INSIDE a person, in another dimension. For God, there are no our times - past, present, future. God embraces everything at once, for Him it is all at once. John saw the Judgment through the eyes of God. Therefore, there may be a completely different order of events than we read in chapters.

For example, at the beginning of chapter 11, the "temple" refers to the "temple of the living God", the temple of the Body of Christ. And at the end of chapter 11, it speaks of a material stone Temple that will be built in Israel in accordance with the prophecy of Ezekiel, chapters 40-48. At the beginning of the chapter, John "measures" those who are Christians because they sacrificed themselves to God. And he does not measure those believers who did not sacrifice themselves to God, but used the status of Christians to arrange their earthly life. And at the end of the chapter, the material Temple is shown, which will become the Ark of the Covenant with the people of Israel, thus rejecting all the pagans who only called themselves Christians, but were not such from the inside.

Another example: in verse 6 alone, it speaks of the past - when Judaism and Christianity closed the Kingdom of Heaven, and did not enter there themselves, and forbade others. And at the end of this same verse, it speaks of the period of the vials of wrath, when the fruits of the activity of the "two witnesses", Judaism and Christianity, will come: the religious world will be struck with plagues.

Revelation 11 is not mixed up.
You are.

 

[Galgal]

The two witnesses are two people who will testify in Israel for 1260 days .Then they are killed and lay dead for 3.5 days.Then they are resurected and ascend into heaven in a cloud

They are not dry bones They lay dead for only 3.5 days .They didn't have enough time to decompose.

You will be mistaken in all your expectations.

 

[tailgator]

You will be mistaken in all your expectations.

Not hardly.
They live and die just as it is written.
Then they are resurected and ascend into heaven just as it is written.

They will be arriving in Israel next year most likely.After the king of the north sends his troops .The gentiles in verse 2.

 

[Galgal]

Not hardly.
They live and die just as it is written.
Then they are resurected and ascend into heaven just as it is written.

They will be arriving in Israel next year most likely.After the king of the north sends his troops .The gentiles in verse 2.

Judaism and Christianity lived and died. When the Third Temple is built, described in Ezekiel chapters 40-48, then the Jews faithful to God and the Christians faithful to God will come to life and become one people of God in Israel. And the Christian denominations will perish in torment. This is the whole essence of the allegory of the Revelation of John. The entire plot of Revelation is twisted around the construction of the Third Temple in Israel.

 

[tailgator]

Judaism and Christianity lived and died. When the Third Temple is built, described in Ezekiel chapters 40-48, then the Jews faithful to God and the Christians faithful to God will come to life and become one people of God in Israel. And the Christian denominations will perish in torment. This is the whole essence of the allegory of the Revelation of John. The entire plot of Revelation is twisted around the construction of the Third Temple in Israel.

None of what you say has anything yo do with the two witnesses who have not appeared in Israel yet.

 

[FaithWillDo]

We are already baptized with the Holy Spirit. If we were not baptized with the Holy Spirit, we could not be in the Body of Christ. That is, none of us would be saved in Christ.

Dear Galgal,
You said:
We are already baptized with the Holy Spirit. If we were not baptized with the Holy Spirit, we could not be in the Body of Christ. That is, none of us would be saved in Christ.

When a person first believes, they do so ONLY because Christ gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain of the Spirit (the baptism) is given later IF the person is one of the Elect. If the person is not one of the Elect, they will die in their apostate condition and Christ will say to them "I never knew you".

The apostate church denies the Early Rain of the Spirit. They believe and teach that when a person first believes, they have received the Latter Rain of the Spirit. But this is not true - they are just too spiritually blind to "see" it.

The Early Rain must fall before the Latter Rain can fall. The time in between the two Rains is a time of drought. Elijah's 3 1/2 year drought is a "type" for this time of great tribulation that all believers must as an apostate believer. It cannot be avoided as Christ teaches below:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

The Early and Latter Rain concept (precept) is a part of the farming analogy used in the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant.

And just as Isa 28:9-12 teaches, all babes (Early Rain only) will become apostate before the Latter Rain of the Spirit is poured out.

Look at these verses:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

The apostate church is not ashamed of their false doctrines.

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary (in an apostate condition).

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (Day of conversion for the Elect) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (spiritual blindness is healed and the man of sin is revealed), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

One of the issues for spiritually blind babes is that they don't realize the NT letters are written mostly to "babes" who had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. They were not converted yet. When those letters were written, the spirit of anti-Christ had not yet devoured the churches so the "babes" were remaining faithful as the waited for the Lord to return with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. After the death of Paul, the babes have not remained faithful and have all become apostate. This truth is taught in many of the NT teachings.

A babe becomes apostate when they accept Satan's "another gospel" which mixes in man's works with faith. When a babe accepts this false gospel, they are committing the one and only sin that leads to death. Though the apostate churches of this world have many different beliefs, they all follow a false gospel which mixes in works with faith.

After I was converted many years ago, I left the apostate church and have never gone back.

The apostate church consists of nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects who all call themselves "Christian" but they are not. Satan is masquerading as Christ to them and is uttering deceiving them. Only when Christ "comes again" and heals a believer's spiritual blindness can they see this truth and know that it applies to themselves. It is a very humbling experience. And because this applies to all believers, that is why Christ said that when a believer is being converted, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) - and they will find that it occurred within themselves (God's Temple). This is the moment the believer will come out of Satan's deceptions and when Christ's judgment will fall on them to remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (Mat 24:37-41). After this judgment, the believer is converted. It is a spiritual process within the believer and cannot be seen with human eyes.

As for the verses you quoted, they are, of course, true - but they only apply to converted Elect believers. They do not apply to babes who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit and have become apostate.

To be converted, Christ must come to a person TWO times. The first time Christ comes, He gives the person the Early Rain of the Spirit. This small amount of the Spirit will give the person a "measure of faith" so that they will make a confession of faith when presented the gospel. But since they will remain carnally minded and spiritually blind, they will "fall away" and become apostate. It cannot be avoided. The second time Christ comes (commonly called the Second Coming of Christ) is when Christ gives the same person the Latter Rain of the Spirit (the baptism). This free gift is then immediately followed by judgment to remove the chaff (all the spiritual things that make the person carnally minded). This spiritual process is called conversion and results in the "First Resurrection" (Rev 20:5-6). The First Resurrection is the spiritual resurrection that occurs within a person. It is this spiritual resurrection that causes a person to be "born again". It is at this time that Christ spiritually gathers the new child of God to dwell with Him in Heaven (Mat 24:29-31). This "gathering" is not a physical change of location, it is a spiritual change within the person.

As you implied in your post, those who dwell on the "earth" are the babes who are carnally minded, spiritually blind and unconverted. They are the apostate church. Those who are said to dwell in the "sea" are the unbelievers.

Joe

 

[Keraz]

Why change the Earth's orbit? Everything will come true perfectly well without tectonic cataclysms.

But the Prophetic Word is quite clear. The earth, mountains and islands will be moved by the fiery wrath of God. Revelation 6:12-17, Deuteronomy 32:22, Isaiah 13:13

 

[Galgal]

Dear Galgal,
You said:
We are already baptized with the Holy Spirit. If we were not baptized with the Holy Spirit, we could not be in the Body of Christ. That is, none of us would be saved in Christ.

When a person first believes, they do so ONLY because Christ gave them the Early Rain of the Spirit. The Latter Rain of the Spirit (the baptism) is given later IF the person is one of the Elect. If the person is not one of the Elect, they will die in their apostate condition and Christ will say to them "I never knew you".

The apostate church denies the Early Rain of the Spirit. They believe and teach that when a person first believes, they have received the Latter Rain of the Spirit. But this is not true - they are just too spiritually blind to "see" it.

The Early Rain must fall before the Latter Rain can fall. The time in between the two Rains is a time of drought. Elijah's 3 1/2 year drought is a "type" for this time of great tribulation that all believers must as an apostate believer. It cannot be avoided as Christ teaches below:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:21-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

The Early and Latter Rain concept (precept) is a part of the farming analogy used in the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant.

And just as Isa 28:9-12 teaches, all babes (Early Rain only) will become apostate before the Latter Rain of the Spirit is poured out.

Look at these verses:

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

The apostate church is not ashamed of their false doctrines.

Psa 68:9 Thou, O God, didst send a plentiful RAIN (Latter Rain), whereby thou didst confirm thine inheritance, when it was weary (in an apostate condition).

1Sam 12:17 Is it not wheat harvest to day? (Day of conversion for the Elect) I will call unto the LORD, and he shall send thunder and RAIN (the Latter Rain); that ye may perceive and see that your wickedness is great (spiritual blindness is healed and the man of sin is revealed), which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, in asking you a king.

One of the issues for spiritually blind babes is that they don't realize the NT letters are written mostly to "babes" who had only received the Early Rain of the Spirit. They were not converted yet. When those letters were written, the spirit of anti-Christ had not yet devoured the churches so the "babes" were remaining faithful as the waited for the Lord to return with the Latter Rain of the Spirit. After the death of Paul, the babes have not remained faithful and have all become apostate. This truth is taught in many of the NT teachings.

A babe becomes apostate when they accept Satan's "another gospel" which mixes in man's works with faith. When a babe accepts this false gospel, they are committing the one and only sin that leads to death. Though the apostate churches of this world have many different beliefs, they all follow a false gospel which mixes in works with faith.

After I was converted many years ago, I left the apostate church and have never gone back.

The apostate church consists of nearly 2,000 different denominations/sects who all call themselves "Christian" but they are not. Satan is masquerading as Christ to them and is uttering deceiving them. Only when Christ "comes again" and heals a believer's spiritual blindness can they see this truth and know that it applies to themselves. It is a very humbling experience. And because this applies to all believers, that is why Christ said that when a believer is being converted, they will "see" the Abomination of Desolation (Mat 24:15-16) - and they will find that it occurred within themselves (God's Temple). This is the moment the believer will come out of Satan's deceptions and when Christ's judgment will fall on them to remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the Great Harlot (Mat 24:37-41). After this judgment, the believer is converted. It is a spiritual process within the believer and cannot be seen with human eyes.

As for the verses you quoted, they are, of course, true - but they only apply to converted Elect believers. They do not apply to babes who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit and have become apostate.

To be converted, Christ must come to a person TWO times. The first time Christ comes, He gives the person the Early Rain of the Spirit. This small amount of the Spirit will give the person a "measure of faith" so that they will make a confession of faith when presented the gospel. But since they will remain carnally minded and spiritually blind, they will "fall away" and become apostate. It cannot be avoided. The second time Christ comes (commonly called the Second Coming of Christ) is when Christ gives the same person the Latter Rain of the Spirit (the baptism). This free gift is then immediately followed by judgment to remove the chaff (all the spiritual things that make the person carnally minded). This spiritual process is called conversion and results in the "First Resurrection" (Rev 20:5-6). The First Resurrection is the spiritual resurrection that occurs within a person. It is this spiritual resurrection that causes a person to be "born again". It is at this time that Christ spiritually gathers the new child of God to dwell with Him in Heaven (Mat 24:29-31). This "gathering" is not a physical change of location, it is a spiritual change within the person.

As you implied in your post, those who dwell on the "earth" are the babes who are carnally minded, spiritually blind and unconverted. They are the apostate church. Those who are said to dwell in the "sea" are the unbelievers.

Joe

The Holy Spirit led me out of an apostate church a few months after He brought me to this church so that I could be baptized. But I will tell you this: I have never been in an apostate church. Because for me the Church has always been specific believers, through whom the Holy Spirit gave me fellowship with God in the name of Jesus Christ. This Church has always been and is, despite the thousands of denominations that crucify the Body of Christ - the Body of Christ cannot be crucified, the slanderer is limited in time.

Our position in Christ is not determined by the fact that we see brothers and sisters next to us - we are all sitting in prison, as it were, in isolation from each other. But our position in Christ is that we love God and keep His commandments, we keep the word of Jesus Christ. This observance of the commandments of Christ will be a guarantee of our future reunification here, in this world - not in an organization, but in living fellowship with each other in the Holy Spirit.

Then it will be revealed who is who.

 

[Galgal]

But the Prophetic Word is quite clear. The earth, mountains and islands will be moved by the fiery wrath of God. Revelation 6:12-17, Deuteronomy 32:22, Isaiah 13:13

Revelation depicts the inner world of man. There are also "mountains" and "islands". When our previous ideas collapse, it may look like an "earthquake", like the destruction of the former "earth" and the former "heaven". The physical world remains the same, but we ourselves change. God does not need to destroy the physical world, God wants to change us, people. Therefore, all the cataclysms of the Apocalypse, like the cataclysms described in the prophets of the Old Testament, will not be outside of man, but inside. There, inside people stand idols, there, inside there must be contrition before the living God.

 

[FaithWillDo]

The Holy Spirit led me out of an apostate church a few months after He brought me to this church so that I could be baptized. But I will tell you this: I have never been in an apostate church. Because for me the Church has always been specific believers, through whom the Holy Spirit gave me fellowship with God in the name of Jesus Christ. This Church has always been and is, despite the thousands of denominations that crucify the Body of Christ - the Body of Christ cannot be crucified, the slanderer is limited in time.

Our position in Christ is not determined by the fact that we see brothers and sisters next to us - we are all sitting in prison, as it were, in isolation from each other. But our position in Christ is that we love God and keep His commandments, we keep the word of Jesus Christ. This observance of the commandments of Christ will be a guarantee of our future reunification here, in this world - not in an organization, but in living fellowship with each other in the Holy Spirit.

Then it will be revealed who is who.

Dear Galgal,
If a person believes that they have not ever been an apostate believer, then they are still under Satan's deceptions. That is the nature of deception - a person cannot know that they are being deceived while it is happening. It is only after a believer comes out of Satan's deception that they can know they had been deceived. For that reason, Christ says that during the conversion process, the Elect person will see the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves. The pathway to salvation goes through the apostate church, not around it. There are many teachings of scripture which state this truth.

Here is a short parable which supports what Christ said in Mat 12:43-45:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on certain aspects of the pathway to salvation. In this parable, the "woman" represents the marred and carnal spirit of a "babe" just after Christ has given the person the Early Rain of the Spirit. After the spirit of anti-Christ indwells the new believer, the woman becomes the Great Harlot. It is this woman that takes "leaven" (lies of Satan) from the spirit of anti-Christ (Satan) and hides it in three measures of meal. The number three represents a spiritual process and the meal represents the truth of Christ. After the woman makes the bread, the whole loaf is leavened. This is the bread that the carnal mind of the babe consumes. Since the leaven of Satan is hidden in the bread, the babe does not know that Satan is deceiving them. After the believer consumes this leavened bread, they are made "worse than the first" ( a man of sin/apostate believer).

Adam and Eve also teach this truth in "type". Adam is a type for the head/carnal mind of a believer. Eve represents Adam's marred and carnal spirit. It is through Adam's marred and carnal spirit that Satan caused Adam to sin. For that reason, Satan came to Eve with his leaven instead of Adam. And because Adam wanted to please his wife, Adam ate the forbidden fruit. That is what Paul was teaching in the verse below.

1Cor 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

In the parable immediately above the parable of the leavened bread, Christ repeats this teaching:

Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

The "man" is Christ. The "seed" is the truth of Christ (Word of God). The "field" is a person. After the seed within the person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, the seed grows into a tree (a babe in Christ). The "birds of the air" represent unclean spirits which teach Satan's lies. When the birds lodge in the branches of the tree, it represents that "babe" has been deceived by Satan.

The parable of the Wheat and the Tares teaches this same truth, as does the parable of the Ten Virgins and the prophecy of the Two Witnesses. In fact, all the scriptures which teach about the pathway to salvation include a time of "falling away" in one form or another. Babes cannot avoid becoming apostate due to their spiritual blindness and carnal mind.

Christ said this about the power of Satan's deceptions:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The "very Elect" are the Apostles. The only reason they could not be deceived was because they were converted prior to the spirit of anti-Christ coming into the church. After a person is converted, they cannot be deceived by Satan because they now have "eyes that can see".

The apostate church's teaching of "free will" is one of the primary false teachings that comes from the spirit of anti-Christ. Because of this false doctrine, an apostate babe believes that they have the power to avoid being deceived by Satan, that they can direct their own steps - but scripture teaches over and over again that this is not the case.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Joe

 

[Galgal]

Dear Galgal,
If a person believes that they have not ever been an apostate believer, then they are still under Satan's deceptions. That is the nature of deception - a person cannot know that they are being deceived while it is happening. It is only after a believer comes out of Satan's deception that they can know they had been deceived. For that reason, Christ says that during the conversion process, the Elect person will see the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves.

We see the abomination of desolation in religion, and then we flee from there to the mountains. How can we allow the abomination of desolation in ourselves? How can we allow idols into our hearts? He who does this is deprived of fellowship with God, expels the Holy Spirit from himself.

The pathway to salvation goes through the apostate church, not around it. There are many teachings of scripture which state this truth.

Not true. The way to salvation is to run to the mountains as soon as you see the abomination of desolation. The key word here is "see". Those who do not see do not run. But if God showed you the abomination of desolation, you are obliged to run.

Here is a short parable which supports what Christ said in Mat 12:43-45:

Mat 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

All the parables that begin with the phrase "the Kingdom of Heaven is like" are teaching on certain aspects of the pathway to salvation. In this parable, the "woman" represents the marred and carnal spirit of a "babe" just after Christ has given the person the Early Rain of the Spirit. After the spirit of anti-Christ indwells the new believer, the woman becomes the Great Harlot. It is this woman that takes "leaven" (lies of Satan) from the spirit of anti-Christ (Satan) and hides it in three measures of meal. The number three represents a spiritual process and the meal represents the truth of Christ. After the woman makes the bread, the whole loaf is leavened. This is the bread that the carnal mind of the babe consumes. Since the leaven of Satan is hidden in the bread, the babe does not know that Satan is deceiving them. After the believer consumes this leavened bread, they are made "worse than the first" ( a man of sin/apostate believer).

Incorrect. Three measures of flour are three confessions. Leaven is sin. Woman is the surrounding people, the environment of religion. In order not to be leavened by the general hypocrisy, one must flee from there.

Adam and Eve also teach this truth in "type". Adam is a type for the head/carnal mind of a believer. Eve represents Adam's marred and carnal spirit.

Wrong. Adam is a specific individual. Eve is the people surrounding the individual, the social environment, the flesh of Adam's flesh, the same Adams. Adam's sin is that he listened to those around him: "everyone ate - and I began to eat." The fact that everyone around you steals - will not justify you before the court, if you also began to steal. The fact that everyone around you is hypocritical - will not justify you before God, if you also began to be hypocritical. Why did you defile yourself with a "woman"? You should not be like Adam, you should be like Christ.

It is through Adam's marred and carnal spirit that Satan caused Adam to sin. For that reason, Satan came to Eve with his leaven instead of Adam. And because Adam wanted to please his wife, Adam ate the forbidden fruit.

Adam didn't want to please his wife, he did what he thought was best for himself: to do as everyone else did, because it was easier to live that way. Adam is an egoist.

That is what Paul was teaching in the verse below.

1Cor 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

This is about something else. A Christian's wife does not lead a Christian into sin, but she takes away from him the strength that a Christian could use to serve the Lord.

In the parable immediately above the parable of the leavened bread, Christ repeats this teaching:

Mat 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: 32 Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof.

The "man" is Christ. The "seed" is the truth of Christ (Word of God). The "field" is a person. After the seed within the person receives the Early Rain of the Spirit, the seed grows into a tree (a babe in Christ). The "birds of the air" represent unclean spirits which teach Satan's lies.

This is not true. "Birds" in Scripture are an image of angels. There are clean birds and there are unclean birds. Likewise, there are different types of angels.

When the birds lodge in the branches of the tree, it represents that "babe" has been deceived by Satan.

The parable of the Wheat and the Tares teaches this same truth, as does the parable of the Ten Virgins and the prophecy of the Two Witnesses. In fact, all the scriptures which teach about the pathway to salvation include a time of "falling away" in one form or another. Babes cannot avoid becoming apostate due to their spiritual blindness and carnal mind.

Christ said this about the power of Satan's deceptions:

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

The "very Elect" are the Apostles.

False:
But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light; (1 Peter 2:9)

In your Bible they translate it differently, "elect" and "chosen", but in the original Greek it is the same word: ἐκλεκτός.

The only reason they could not be deceived was because they were converted prior to the spirit of anti-Christ coming into the church. After a person is converted, they cannot be deceived by Satan because they now have "eyes that can see".

The apostate church's teaching of "free will" is one of the primary false teachings that comes from the spirit of anti-Christ. Because of this false doctrine, an apostate babe believes that they have the power to avoid being deceived by Satan, that they can direct their own steps - but scripture teaches over and over again that this is not the case.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Yes, we have the power to defeat Satan.

I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. (1 John 2:13)

I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one.

Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
(1 John 4:2-4)

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (John 1:12)

gave he power to become the sons of God - This power is taken by us ourselves, what is required of us is determination and self-sacrifice.

You complain about the apostate environment, but the problem is not in your environment, but in you.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Joe

This is about MAN, not about the sons of God that we are in Jesus Christ.

 

[FaithWillDo]

We see the abomination of desolation in religion

Dear Galgal,
You said:
We see the abomination of desolation in religion, and then we flee from there to the mountains. How can we allow the abomination of desolation in ourselves? How can we allow idols into our hearts? He who does this is deprived of fellowship with God, expels the Holy Spirit from himself.

The Abomination of Desolation occurs when Satan plants his lies within a believer (babe) via the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. No babe can stop this from happening to them because God is the one who causes it to happen.

2Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish (all mankind is going to perish); because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion (the spirit of anti-Christ), that they should believe a lie (Satan's "another gospel"): 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

All mankind is spiritually marred & carnally minded which causes mankind to sin and to do so frequently. In this condition, all mankind has become the children of the Devil who are headed for destruction. No one can avoid paying the penalty of death for their sins. Because all mankind is condemned, the Father sent Christ into the world to save mankind. To save mankind, Christ will make everyone into a "new creation" PRIOR to anyone perishing.

Christ accomplishes His mission to save mankind SOLELY by His own work. Mankind has no ability to contribute anything to their own salvation. After Christ finishes His work within a person, they will be converted from being a child of the Devil into being a child of God. The new birth occurs after Christ has freely given a person both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. After the person is "born again", judgment will fall on the person to destroy the child of the Devil. This judgment was "typed" by Noah and by Lot. When judgment falls, Christ will remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the person's marred & carnal spirit (Great Harlot) from within them and cast them in the Lake of Fire (a symbol for judgment/not literal fire) for destruction. This judgment completes a person's conversion and is when the person goes from being a "babe" to being a "little child" who no longer draws milk.

So why is the time a new believer spends in between receiving the Early and Latter Rain called a time of "great tribulation"?

It is because that is the time when they are indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ and are made into an even worse child of the Devil. Paul calls this person a "man of sin".

One of the places of scripture that teaches how and why God causes a person to become a "man of sin" is taught in 2Thes 2:10-12 (quoted above). It is mankind's carnal mind that does not allow a person to have a love for the truth. This also applies to "babes" who remain carnally minded and unconverted. Until a believer is converted from a child of the Devil into a child of God, they will not have a love for the truth. For this cause, God will send (via Satan) the spirit of anti-Christ (the strong delusion) to indwell them. With the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling the new believer, their carnality will be made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). This is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs. No babe can stop this from happening to themselves. No one has a free will ability to avoid it. God controls a person's "will" and He is the one who directs their steps.

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

You said:
Not true. The way to salvation is to run to the mountains as soon as you see the abomination of desolation. The key word here is "see". Those who do not see do not run. But if God showed you the abomination of desolation, you are obliged to run.

The one who runs to the mountains (same as being gathered to heaven) is the newly born child of God. The worsened child of the devil (represented by Sodom and Gomorrah) will then be destroyed. These spiritual events all happen within a single believer during their conversion process. Because the Latter Rain of the Spirit heals the believer's spiritual blindness, they will finally "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves. This is the moment when they come out of Satan's deceptions.

You said:
Incorrect. Three measures of flour are three confessions. Leaven is sin. Woman is the surrounding people, the environment of religion. In order not to be leavened by the general hypocrisy, one must flee from there.

Your understanding has no scriptural support. Where are "three" confessions ever taught in scripture? Also, leaven represents Satan's lies (not sin) that are taught by his children (ministers of Satan). The woman is mankind's marred and carnal spirit which is the source of why mankind sins. It is through mankind's marred and carnal spirit (typed by Eve) that Satan deceives mankind. That is why the parable says the "woman" takes the leaven. The woman then makes the leavened bread and feeds it to the carnal mind of the person. The person accepts it as Christ's truth because they cannot "see" the leaven in the bread they are consuming - they are just too carnally minded and spiritually blind because they remain unconverted. This is how Satan deceives and kills the babes. Since all believers start the pathway to salvation as a babe, everyone will experience a time in the apostate church. It cannot be avoided.

Also, consider what Paul said below about the spiritual language of Christ in which the truths of the New Covenant are taught:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

To understand Christ's "spirit" words (John 6:63), we must understand that "spirit" words do not carry the same meanings as man's wisdom teaches. To understand the meanings of spirit words, we must compare how those words are used elsewhere in scripture. Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, a converted believer will be able to discern their true meanings.

I'm out of space to respond to your other comments. I will say this again: The verses you quoted are speaking about believers who are converted - not about babes. You must rightly divide the words between the babes who only have the Early Rain of the Spirit and the converted believers who have both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirt. Also, at the time the letters were written, the babes were remaining faithful (for the most part) because the spirit of anti-Christ had not fully come into the church yet.

Joe

 

[Galgal]

Dear Galgal,
You said:
We see the abomination of desolation in religion, and then we flee from there to the mountains. How can we allow the abomination of desolation in ourselves? How can we allow idols into our hearts? He who does this is deprived of fellowship with God, expels the Holy Spirit from himself.

The Abomination of Desolation occurs when Satan plants his lies within a believer (babe) via the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. No babe can stop this from happening to them because God is the one who causes it to happen.

2Thes 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish (all mankind is going to perish); because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion (the spirit of anti-Christ), that they should believe a lie (Satan's "another gospel"): 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

All mankind is spiritually marred & carnally minded which causes mankind to sin and to do so frequently. In this condition, all mankind has become the children of the Devil who are headed for destruction.

It is not true. In fact, there are righteous people among the unbelievers:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: (Romans 2:14)

Christ accomplishes His mission to save mankind SOLELY by His own work. Mankind has no ability to contribute anything to their own salvation.

Again a lie. This is what the false Christianity teaches, which is dragging the whole world into its nets. In fact, our salvation now depends on ourselves. We must sacrifice our lives, adding our sacrifices to the Sacrifice of Christ, and only then can we together receive the redemption of the Body on the day of resurrection.

Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: (Colossians 1:24)

The sacrifice of Jesus Christ is NOT SUFFICIENT to redeem us unless we contribute to the afflictions for Christ's sake.

For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully. (1 Peter 2:19)

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. (Romans 12:1)

After Christ finishes His work within a person, they will be converted from being a child of the Devil into being a child of God.

Not true. Not from the devil's child, but from an unbelieving deaf, blind, dumb blockhead to a living being turned to God.

The new birth occurs after Christ has freely given a person both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit. After the person is "born again", judgment will fall on the person to destroy the child of the Devil. This judgment was "typed" by Noah and by Lot. When judgment falls, Christ will remove the spirit of anti-Christ and the person's marred & carnal spirit (Great Harlot) from within them and cast them in the Lake of Fire (a symbol for judgment/not literal fire) for destruction. This judgment completes a person's conversion and is when the person goes from being a "babe" to being a "little child" who no longer draws milk.

So why is the time a new believer spends in between receiving the Early and Latter Rain called a time of "great tribulation"?

It is because that is the time when they are indwelt with the spirit of anti-Christ and are made into an even worse child of the Devil. Paul calls this person a "man of sin".

You are confusing the collective state and the individual state. The "man of sin" in the "temple of the living God" is a collective state, the dominant spirit in Christianity has become the spirit of the Antichrist. But those who oppose it have not disappeared, but have simply withdrawn from the religious environment. This is the "flight to the mountains."

Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him. (1 Kings 19:18)

Even at the present time, when the Third Temple is built and the saints enter the eastern gate of the Temple, there will be 7,000 Christian organizations or denominations on earth that will accept this appearance of Jesus Christ and therefore voluntarily cease their activities:

And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. (Revelation 11:13)

This is a bad translation. The Greek does not actually say "man" but "names of men." There is one name of God, and there are many "names of men" that Christian denominations and organizations are called. 7,000 such religious structures will be as righteous as the 7,000 righteous men of Elijah's day.

One of the places of scripture that teaches how and why God causes a person to become a "man of sin" is taught in 2Thes 2:10-12 (quoted above). It is mankind's carnal mind that does not allow a person to have a love for the truth. This also applies to "babes" who remain carnally minded and unconverted. Until a believer is converted from a child of the Devil into a child of God, they will not have a love for the truth. For this cause, God will send (via Satan) the spirit of anti-Christ (the strong delusion) to indwell them. With the spirit of anti-Christ indwelling the new believer, their carnality will be made "worse than the first" (Mat 12:43-45). This is when the Abomination of Desolation occurs. No babe can stop this from happening to themselves. No one has a free will ability to avoid it. God controls a person's "will" and He is the one who directs their steps.

If man has no freedom of choice, then God would be unjust in His Judgment. Man has a choice. Adam also had a choice, and he made a bad choice, the result of which became deplorable for all mankind. But even now, any person, believer or unbeliever, has the opportunity to choose.

 

[Galgal]

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Prov 16:1 The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the LORD.

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

You are confusing yourself. If you are in Adam, then yes, you are a passive victim of the general movement toward death. If you are in Christ, you are an active agent on God's side, a fellow worker of Jesus Christ. Again, the choice is yours. If you are a spiritual babe, then there is a high probability of your destruction when deception occurs. If you have reached a more mature spiritual state, then you have the power to defeat the beast.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

You said:
Not true. The way to salvation is to run to the mountains as soon as you see the abomination of desolation. The key word here is "see". Those who do not see do not run. But if God showed you the abomination of desolation, you are obliged to run.

The one who runs to the mountains (same as being gathered to heaven) is the newly born child of God.

This is not always the case. Quite the contrary, a baby cannot run because it cannot gain strength. God gave me the opportunity to survive, I received refuge from God in a home church, without losing limited interaction with members of congregations registered in the system of this world. Other babies could have died, that is true.

The worsened child of the devil (represented by Sodom and Gomorrah) will then be destroyed. These spiritual events all happen within a single believer during their conversion process. Because the Latter Rain of the Spirit heals the believer's spiritual blindness, they will finally "see" the Abomination of Desolation that previously occurred within themselves. This is the moment when they come out of Satan's deceptions.

You said:
Incorrect. Three measures of flour are three confessions. Leaven is sin. Woman is the surrounding people, the environment of religion. In order not to be leavened by the general hypocrisy, one must flee from there.

Your understanding has no scriptural support. Where are "three" confessions ever taught in scripture?

It is a well-known fact: Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism. They are the three heads of the eagle in 2 Esdras.

Also, leaven represents Satan's lies (not sin) that are taught by his children (ministers of Satan). The woman is mankind's marred and carnal spirit which is the source of why mankind sins. It is through mankind's marred and carnal spirit (typed by Eve) that Satan deceives mankind. That is why the parable says the "woman" takes the leaven. The woman then makes the leavened bread and feeds it to the carnal mind of the person. The person accepts it as Christ's truth because they cannot "see" the leaven in the bread they are consuming - they are just too carnally minded and spiritually blind because they remain unconverted.

This is not so. I saw the spirit of hypocrisy, the leaven of the Pharisees, alien to the Gospel quite quickly. Then God showed me the persecution of the saints who were in the community where He led me. Therefore, when I began to turn to God intensely, He pushed me out of the hypocritical spirit like a cork out of water. And later I met exactly the same Christians who had fled from religion. Some of them had home churches and could support themselves in the faith with more or less success.

This is how Satan deceives and kills the babes. Since all believers start the pathway to salvation as a babe, everyone will experience a time in the apostate church. It cannot be avoided.

Also, consider what Paul said below about the spiritual language of Christ in which the truths of the New Covenant are taught:

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

To understand Christ's "spirit" words (John 6:63), we must understand that "spirit" words do not carry the same meanings as man's wisdom teaches. To understand the meanings of spirit words, we must compare how those words are used elsewhere in scripture. Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, a converted believer will be able to discern their true meanings.

The first thing God told me when I first turned to Him in prayer, asking where to find Him:

The Bible is true. Jesus Christ was on earth for real, as described in the Gospels. In order for me to understand what is written in the Bible, I must ask God in the name of Jesus Christ for the spirit of truth, without which it is impossible to understand the Scriptures.

Since that day, I have lived like that.

 

[FaithWillDo]

You are confusing yourself. If you are in Adam, then yes, you are a passive victim of the general movement toward death. If you are in Christ, you are an active agent on God's side, a fellow worker of Jesus Christ. Again, the choice is yours. If you are a spiritual babe, then there is a high probability of your destruction when deception occurs. If you have reached a more mature spiritual state, then you have the power to defeat the beast.

This is not always the case. Quite the contrary, a baby cannot run because it cannot gain strength. God gave me the opportunity to survive, I received refuge from God in a home church, without losing limited interaction with members of congregations registered in the system of this world. Other babies could have died, that is true.

It is a well-known fact: Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Protestantism. They are the three heads of the eagle in 2 Esdras.

This is not so. I saw the spirit of hypocrisy, the leaven of the Pharisees, alien to the Gospel quite quickly. Then God showed me the persecution of the saints who were in the community where He led me. Therefore, when I began to turn to God intensely, He pushed me out of the hypocritical spirit like a cork out of water. And later I met exactly the same Christians who had fled from religion. Some of them had home churches and could support themselves in the faith with more or less success.

The first thing God told me when I first turned to Him in prayer, asking where to find Him:

The Bible is true. Jesus Christ was on earth for real, as described in the Gospels. In order for me to understand what is written in the Bible, I must ask God in the name of Jesus Christ for the spirit of truth, without which it is impossible to understand the Scriptures.

Since that day, I have lived like that.

Dear Galgal,
You said:
It is not true. In fact, there are righteous people among the unbelievers:

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: (Romans 2:14)

Your comment is not true. I find it amazing that you would even say it.

This verse contradicts your statement:

Rom 3:10 As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one: 11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

You said:
Again a lie. This is what the false Christianity teaches, which is dragging the whole world into its nets. In fact, our salvation now depends on ourselves.

Your belief is "filthy rags" and comes from Satan's false gospel which mixes works with faith. When a believer accepts this lie, they are committing the one and only sin that leads to death.

Prov 23:27 For a whore (man's carnal and marred spirit) is a deep ditch; and a strange woman is a narrow pit. 28 She also lieth in wait as for a prey, and increaseth the transgressors among men. 29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 30 They (babes/no Latter Rain) that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine. 31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright. 32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.

Jer 3:3 Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no Latter Rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.

Luke 5:39 No man also having drunk old wine straightway desireth new: for he saith, The old is better.

The Old Wine represents the Old Covenant which is based on the works of man. The New Wine represents the New Covenant which is based upon the works of Christ. When a babe adds their own works to the works of Christ, they are mixing the wines together. This mixture "biteth like a serpent" and will spiritually kill the believer (loss of salvation).

This mixing of wines is taught by Satan's false gospel which he uses to devour the babes shortly after Christ has given them the Early Rain of the Spirit. It is by this false gospel that Satan has built his apostate church - a church which masquerades as the true church to this world.

Jesus Christ is the Savior and He alone is the one who does all the work of saving a person. A person has nothing within them from which they can add to Christ's work. Christ is even the one who decides when He will do His work within a person. The person has no say in the matter.

When Christ does His work, He will give the person their faith in Him and their desire & ability to make Him their Lord. Christ is even the one who causes them to repent of their works. He leaves nothing to chance or to a person's "will". Christ does all this work because of His grace and not because the person has ever done anything to deserve it.

By the end of the final age, Christ will have done His work within every person who has ever lived - no one will be left out of the Kingdom of Heaven:

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Since Christ has not given you the Latter Rain of the Spirit, you are not able to receive His spiritual nourishment of truth. At this point, there is no reason to continue this discussion. All my words would just be falling on deaf ears.

I will move onto another thread unless another member posts to me.

Joe

 

[Galgal]

About the 42 months of the beast, this is an interesting story. If we understand literally that there will be such a historical period between two significant events connected with the "beast" from the multitude of pagans trampling the New Jerusalem, then 42 months do not fit into the periods that are obtained from other prophecies.

But if we do this trick: the beast has 42 months and the pagans have 42 months, we divide this period IN TWO. (We have already calculated 1260 years for two - Judaism and Christianity, from the Second Temple in March 516 BC to the 2nd earthquake on Easter, March 28, 2005, 1260 + 1260 = 2520 years, it came true.) We get a period of exactly 21 lunar months, this is about 1240/2 = 620 days. From the inauguration of Donald Trump on January 20, 2025, this 620-day period will end on October 2, 2026, on the eve of the appearance in Israel of the city of Yahweh Shammah, the 7th vial of wrath:

And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. (Revelation 16:17)

For now, I will leave this version, until the inauguration of Trump. False prophet Brandon Biggs promised a Great Crisis for President Trump. I think he predicted it correctly.

 

[CTK]

For what it is worth - discussion of the time element of"time, times, ad 1/2 time" - Daniel and Revelation.

Daniel 7: 25c–Then the saints shall be given into his hands until a time and times and half a time

This chapter presents a thought-provoking interpretation—one that shifts the focus from traditional views of the saints as people or martyrs to the saints of the Most High as God’s ten commandments. If we accept this perspective, then the time element mentioned in Daniel 7:25—"a time, times, and half a time"—should also be understood in this context.

Many scholars apply the year-for-a-day principle found in prophetic time prophecies such as Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:4-6, using it as a framework to interpret this period as 1,260 years. However, if the saints of the Most High in Chapter 7 represent God's commandments, then this prophecy is not about human persecution alone—it is about the treatment of God’s Word itself.

Daniel 7 repeatedly emphasizes the ten commandments, portraying them as the saints of the Most High who will be placed into the hands of the little horn for a defined period. However, the little horn does not possess them permanently. His control over them lasts only until this specific time period has been completed. The corruption and distortion of God's law have an endpoint—before the return of the Messiah, these commandments will be restored to their rightful place in His heavenly kingdom.

This aligns with the words of Jesus in John 17:14-18, where He prays to the Father, asking that His Word—the ten commandments—not be taken out of the world but remain until their purpose is fulfilled. The commandments would continue to be present and active, guiding His people, even as they endured manipulation and misinterpretation under the little horn’s influence.

In this interpretation, the prophetic time period of "a time, times, and half a time" is deeply connected to the overarching spiritual battle described in Daniel. It is not merely about earthly rule or political power, but about the fate of God's divine law in a world where truth is constantly challenged.

Time, times, and a ½ time calculation

The calculation of a time, times, and half a time takes on profound significance when viewed through the lens of God's divine timeline. Approximately 3,500 years ago, God gave His ten commandments to Moses on Mount Sinai—His Word, a gift not of this world, just as Jesus Himself confirmed in John 17:14–16. These commandments were entrusted to mankind for a predetermined period: a time (1,000 years), times (2,000 years), and half a time (500 years). This totals 3,500 years, marking the span of time that His Word has remained in the hands of humanity before returning to its rightful place in His heavenly kingdom just before the second coming of the Messiah.

While His laws were not handed over specifically to Papal Rome for this entire duration, His Word has been under mankind’s stewardship throughout this period. Yet, as history has shown, His commandments have been misused, altered, and distorted. The little horn has sought to manipulate and control them, bending them to its own will. But despite these efforts, God's Word remains steadfast. Isaiah 55:11 reminds us that His Word will not return to Him void—it will accomplish what He desires and fulfill the purpose for which He sent it.

As the conclusion of this 3,500-year period draws near, we are standing at the very threshold of God's divine judgment. The saints of the Most High—His ten commandments—will soon be fully restored to their rightful place. Until then, they remain in the little horn’s grasp, twisted but never destroyed, waiting for the moment when the court shall be seated. That court hearing is closer than ever, and the final fulfillment of God’s plan is at hand.

Revelation 7:4-8

The sealing of God’s servants in Revelation 7:4-8 strongly parallels the final plague in Exodus and finds echoes in other Old Testament passages.

These connections highlight God’s consistent pattern of mercy and protection for His faithful. In the final plague of Exodus, God commanded the Israelites to mark their doorposts with the blood of a lamb (Exodus 12:7, 13). This mark symbolized their allegiance to God and provided protection against the destroying angel. Similarly, the sealing of the 144,000 in Revelation identifies and safeguards God’s servants from the judgments to come. Both instances underscore God’s power to shield His people amid widespread calamity—whether it is the Israelites’ deliverance from Egypt or the faithful’s ultimate redemption in Revelation.

This theme also appears in Ezekiel’s vision of the mark (Ezekiel 9:3-6), where a man clothed in linen marks the foreheads of those grieving over Jerusalem’s sins. Those marked are spared from destruction, much like the servants sealed in Revelation 7. In these scenes, the mark represents divine protection and sets the faithful apart from those subject to judgment. Other Old Testament references further enrich this symbolism. Deuteronomy 6:8 instructs God’s people to bind His words as a sign on their hands and foreheads, symbolizing devotion and obedience—similar to being sealed as God’s own. Malachi 3:17-18 promises God’s protection for those who fear Him, calling them His "jewels." Likewise, in Isaiah 26:20-21, God tells His people to "enter your chambers" and hide until His wrath has passed, a vivid parallel to the sealing in Revelation, where judgment is delayed until the faithful are identified and protected. These connections between Revelation 7 and the Old Testament emphasize God’s unchanging character. The seal, like the blood on the doorposts or the mark in Ezekiel, signifies God’s ownership, care, and mercy for His people.

The 144,000 in Revelation as God’s chosen witnesses at the end of time is both compelling and meaningful. These individuals represent God’s people who, like Paul, will be given their own "Damascus experience.” Romans 11:25-26 speaks of a time when the partial hardening of Israel will end, allowing them to recognize Jesus as their Messiah. This aligns with Zechariah 12:10, where the people of Israel will mourn deeply as they realize they have pierced the One who came to save them. At this pivotal moment, God’s people will have the blindness lifted from their eyes and will embrace Jesus, fulfilling their role in His redemptive plan.

These 144,000 will then go out into the world, preaching the Good News with fervor and urgency, much like Paul did in the first century. Their mission will be a final call to humanity to turn to God before the return of Christ. This mission is tied to the prophetic timeline of Daniel’s 70 weeks of years (Daniel 9:24-27). The 3.5 years of ministry by the 144,000 will complete the final portion of the 490 years decreed for God’s people. The timeline, which began in 457 BC, was interrupted at the cross, with 486.5 years fulfilled. The remaining 3.5 years must be completed, and can only be completed by His people. At the conclusion of these final 3.5 years, the 4th and final Great Jubilee cycle will be completed – then the Messiah.

The 144,000, sealed as God’s faithful witnesses, will not only go out into the world to preach the Word of God and the Testimony of Jesus but will also expose the profound departure of the church and its teachings from the true Word of God. Over the past 1500 years, the little horn, symbolizing the papacy, has disseminated doctrines and practices that diverge from biblical truth. These witnesses will serve as a powerful testimony, shining a light on these deviations and calling people back to the purity of God’s Word.

Their mission will be one of both proclamation and restoration, revealing God’s truth and preparing the world for the Messiah’s return. This understanding not only highlights God’s faithfulness to His covenant but also underscores the unity of His plan throughout history. The restoration of His chosen people and their role in completing the unfulfilled years of prophecy showcase God’s justice, mercy, and sovereignty. It serves as a reminder that God’s timing is perfect and His promises are sure.

It might be appropriate to also mention that the list of the 12 tribes in Revelation 7:5–8 is different from the original tribes listed in the Old Testament. Notably, the tribes of Dan and Ephraim are excluded. Dan has long been associated with idolatry and rebellion (Judges 18:30–31; 1 Kings 12:28–30), which may explain its omission as a symbolic rejection of unfaithfulness. Similarly, Ephraim, another tribe with a history of idolatry (Hosea 4:17), is removed. In place of these tribes, we see the inclusion of Levi and Joseph. Levi, traditionally excluded from military and land inheritance lists because of its priestly role (Numbers 1:47–49), is now included, emphasizing the spiritual and worshipful nature of the 144,000 as God’s faithful remnant. Joseph’s inclusion, replacing Ephraim, symbolizes a purification and refocusing on faithfulness. These changes are not accidental; they reflect theological priorities rather than strict genealogical order, showcasing the purity and loyalty of God’s chosen people. The revised list emphasizes that at the end of time, God’s people are defined not by lineage alone but by their spiritual fidelity and faithfulness to Him.

 

[Dan Clarkston]

Do not mix the Gospel with political issues

Meaning... Christians should allow the devil's representatives to control all aspects of government
and Christians should sit down and shut up and not true to influence the world around us, right?